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TheRat posted:18/19 times if I remember correctly (which I may very well not, it's a longass time since) Missed against Blackburn and Leeds
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Jul 12, 2021 20:37
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abelwingnut posted:not trying to be too american here but has anyone simply looked at velocity vs penalty kick success? or maybe someone has looked over thousands of kicks, judged each one as a blast shot vs a cute shot, and then seen what works best? Roberto Baggio
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Jul 12, 2021 20:40
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i have a feeling penalties will be better trained in the future. deep analysis based coaching is really just starting to break out in major sports in the last few years. that said, do professionals really need to be told that the loving idiotic stutter stop step has a worse conversion expectancy than just picking a side and not breaking your stride? rashford in particular has taken plenty of pens, he surely knows that already.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:45
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EC10 posted:i have a feeling penalties will be better trained in the future. deep analysis based coaching is really just starting to break out in major sports in the last few years. that said, do professionals really need to be told that the loving idiotic stutter stop step has a worse conversion expectancy than just picking a side and not breaking your stride? rashford in particular has taken plenty of pens, he surely knows that already. They are all individual people. They're not robots. You can't construct the mechanically perfect footballer. And if you did I'd tell you to gently caress off.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:49
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Mrenda posted:They are all individual people. They're not robots. You can't construct the mechanically perfect footballer. And if you did I'd tell you to gently caress off. You Are the Robo-Penalty Taker
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Jul 12, 2021 21:05
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EC10 posted:i have a feeling penalties will be better trained in the future. deep analysis based coaching is really just starting to break out in major sports in the last few years. that said, do professionals really need to be told that the loving idiotic stutter stop step has a worse conversion expectancy than just picking a side and not breaking your stride? rashford in particular has taken plenty of pens, he surely knows that already. This is dumb, you cant ever account for nerves
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Jul 12, 2021 21:11
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CyberPingu posted:This is dumb, you cant ever account for nerves xNRV
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Jul 12, 2021 21:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXFWmpB-cPQ
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Jul 12, 2021 21:19
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Joe Fart
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Jul 12, 2021 21:23
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They all spend time out on the golf course getting their swing nice and mechanical. Just convince them it's the same thing.
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Jul 12, 2021 21:33
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Pirlo was fantastic. Casually run up, dink the ball down the middle, sneer just enough that the keeper knows you think he’s poo poo and jog gently back to your mates. If it was anyone other than Joe Hart you’d feel sorry for him
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Jul 12, 2021 21:34
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Mrenda posted:They are all individual people. They're not robots. You can't construct the mechanically perfect footballer. And if you did I'd tell you to gently caress off. CyberPingu posted:This is dumb, you cant ever account for nerves what is even the implication here? that proper penalty taking technique can't be figured out, and then coached?
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Jul 12, 2021 21:41
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75,000 of the last 100,000 profesionally taken penalty kicks on record were scored so yeah i reckon you could have a coach analyze those and take some notes to teach proper technique
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Jul 12, 2021 21:48
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EC10 posted:what is even the implication here? that proper penalty taking technique can't be figured out, and then coached? Maybe someone can figure out proper goalkeeping technique and every penalty will be saved?
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Jul 12, 2021 21:51
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Wonder what Mrs. Grealish 69 got up to last night.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:04
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EC10 posted:what is even the implication here? that proper penalty taking technique can't be figured out, and then coached? No the implication is that it doesn't matter how much you "perfect" something because you can't create the perfect scenario each time because its totally different on a training ground or in a friendly or even in a league game than it is in a knockout game or a cup final because of nerves, emotions and other things.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:10
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Much like goalkeepers get a dossier on where the opponents are likely to put their penalties, I'm sure different goalkeepers are easier to beat by doing different things. Some are likely to make their mind up early and so be beaten by a stutter step, some are more likely to rely on reflexes and reach to get to a powerful shot.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:19
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CyberPingu posted:No the implication is that it doesn't matter how much you "perfect" something because you can't create the perfect scenario each time because its totally different on a training ground or in a friendly or even in a league game than it is in a knockout game or a cup final because of nerves, emotions and other things. All those things make the "I'll figure it out when I get there" approach to penalty placement a bad idea. You may not be able to perfect it but it's not a lottery either. Keepers do research (or the analysts do research and show it to them) on penalty takers all the time.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:24
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CyberPingu posted:No the implication is that it doesn't matter how much you "perfect" something because you can't create the perfect scenario each time because its totally different on a training ground or in a friendly or even in a league game than it is in a knockout game or a cup final because of nerves, emotions and other things. are you harry redknapp in disguise? maybe we should do away with managers all together and the lads should just go on and have a facking run about?
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Jul 12, 2021 22:35
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https://twitter.com/robymancio/status/1414681048785489922?s=20
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Jul 12, 2021 22:38
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Mrenda posted:Maybe someone can figure out proper goalkeeping technique and every penalty will be saved? good point, i didn't think of that 
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Jul 12, 2021 22:39
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If you hit it within a couple of inches in the top corner I don’t think a keeper could save it even if you told them where you were putting it. I’m quite surprised it’s not possible to train something as rigid as a penalty to that degree but idk. Like a racing driver can put their car on a mm perfect line I kinda feel like the same should be possible with a pen. Idk. Fun to think about.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:45
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Bape Culture posted:If you hit it within a couple of inches in the top corner I don’t think a keeper could save it even if you told them where you were putting it. I’m quite surprised it’s not possible to train something as rigid as a penalty to that degree but idk. Like a racing driver can put their car on a mm perfect line I kinda feel like the same should be possible with a pen. Idk. Fun to think about. The mental pressure is something else. I imagine if you were doing kickabout in a park, any one of the players could hit it in the top corner ten times out of ten, even somebody like Pickford who's probably never taken a serious penalty. But when it actually counts in the biggest moment of your life, that's such a completely different story.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:50
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I think the problems with the swervy, stuttering run up are: - they actually make it more obvious where they're going to go - they have time to over think it - looks worse when they miss
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Jul 12, 2021 22:56
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It's easy to say 'just top bin it' but also a thing to consider is keepers are different too. Donnarumma in particular is extremely enormous (he was 180cm when he was ten lol) and extremely ice cold at reading players; if your run up is obvious he saves your perfect penalty that statistically beats goalkeepers. His stats are something ridiculous like 35 percent penalties saved over his entire career and that doesn't even count the misses, which are common because the players feel intimidated. Southgate apparently put on penalty takers because of stats showing young players have a high conversion rate. But he did it against an ice cold penalty saving specialist in a final and ultimately kinda doomed the three lads to having a pretty harrowing memory. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 23:03
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EC10 posted:good point, i didn't think of that You're talking like no-one in football has ever thought of anything before. The things you're talking about they are doing, the new things that come along will be implemented, and, still, when someone is facing down a goalkeeper as they run up there'll be so much unaccounted for that there'll still be players missing.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:06
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All penalties should be taken like this 
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Jul 12, 2021 23:10
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Anukahn posted:All penalties should be taken like this  I let out a good loud laugh at this cheeky poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:22
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https://twitter.com/marcusrashford/status/1414672529717964807?s=21
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Jul 12, 2021 23:41
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Bape Culture posted:If you hit it within a couple of inches in the top corner I don’t think a keeper could save it even if you told them where you were putting it. I’m quite surprised it’s not possible to train something as rigid as a penalty to that degree but idk. Like a racing driver can put their car on a mm perfect line I kinda feel like the same should be possible with a pen. Idk. Fun to think about. So, all kinds of poo poo actually comes into play with things like penalties. You can absolutely work on muscle memory, as F1 drivers do and footballers do as well. Carragher took a penalty in 06 because he hadn't missed one in training for weeks. There's a built in set of uncertainties when it comes to striking a football that just aren't there with, say, steering a vehicle. Variables that added together make millimetres to centimetres of difference. Consider Rashford's penalty for the latter. A few cm to the right and it looks a cool rear end penalty. Boots, friction on the grass, how fatigued the player is at that precise moment and I don't necessarily mean physically fatigued from playing...how they slept, ate, what they ate, are they stressed? Mental and physical stress all play into precisely how well that ball is struck in that moment. You can train the muscle memory and the stats bear out that good practice scores penalties 75% of the time which is pretty good, but it makes for some misses in 10 pens on the finest of margins sometimes. This idea being proposed that penalties don't get studied and analysed and practiced is ridiculous. They do. It's precisely why England won their last 2 major shootouts before this one. By the stats we were 50/50 due a loss on the 75% success rate. On the pitch, England were the second best team in the tournament, I can live with that and it's tremendous progress by Gareth. For an elite footballer to be able to convert a penalty on average 75% of their goes is loving amazing to anyone that's taken a pen from 12 yards out, it's loving difficult.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:52
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If you train until you can put the ball perfectly in that one spot that would be unsaveable every time, what happens when the goalkeeper learns that you put it there every time and adjusts their starting position accordingly? You then need to make a decision on if you hit the ball somewhere else or not, and that changes the odds again. It's not possible to train until perfection because both parties are doing exactly that.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:55
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Bogan Krkic posted:If you train until you can put the ball perfectly in that one spot that would be unsaveable every time, what happens when the goalkeeper learns that you put it there every time and adjusts their starting position accordingly? You then need to make a decision on if you hit the ball somewhere else or not, and that changes the odds again. It's not possible to train until perfection because both parties are doing exactly that. Beckham had something like 30 free kicks scored for United and 5 or 6 for England, I remember many, many many more attempts than that and he's considered one of the masters of the art. He used to practice getting the ball through a tyre that he'd hang in different spots in a goal. I think people underestimate the variables in football, right down to the ball itself and the air pressure/wind lol
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Jul 13, 2021 00:00
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Mo Sala has a good approach, kick it as hard as you can every time and worry about it later. I think he missed one for Liverpool.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:12
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That was famously Shearer's approach. Cantona may have had the sickest conversion rate but on pure numbers of attempts Shearer's record was ridiculous
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Jul 13, 2021 00:25
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This man has amazing hair
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Jul 13, 2021 00:33
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Has anyone thought about training footballers to kick the ball exactly where they want it to go every time? Seems pretty obvious to me
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Jul 13, 2021 00:39
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As someone who’s never missed a penalty kick in an international tournament, I just don’t see how people struggle with it.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:40
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Shageletic posted:This man has amazing hair  can't wait to bring back the hair/tattoo thread for the world cup
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Jul 13, 2021 00:43
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Shageletic posted:This man has amazing hair My mum fancied him a lot when he managed City and tbh I think he's got even better with age
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Jul 13, 2021 00:48
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A perfectly hit penalty is basically impossible to save even for the best goalkeeper, but hitting it perfectly involves ignoring the rest of the players, the crowd, the millions watching on TV and the mental 6'+ guy dancing around on his line and staring daggers at you That's why they are pretty much the best tie-breaker in sports tbh, the human factor is EVERYTHING.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:49
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