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There's a lot of good discussion about Capitalism, Ethical Consumption, and Right Wing associated Chicken Joints in the USnews thread. Please continue them here. This is good stuff to talk about.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:00
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Would it be gauche to just copy my last post here? I'ma copy my last post here.A Terrible Person posted:If you eat at Chick-fil-A, you're just a piece of poo poo, period. After the derecho that destroyed Cedar Rapids last year, the entire region was without power for a week at minimum, up to a month for some. The first restaurant in the region that I'm aware of that was able to open was a Chick-fil-A. I will eat at that Chick-fil-A without a moment of hesitation because they were there for us when we needed food beyond scraping what cold scraps were left from the floor of the few grocery stores that had reopened by that point. I absolutely will not hold their parent company against the people and franchisee who were there when we needed them. gently caress you and your blanket insults.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:02
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No, no, its fine to continue here, but do keep it civil: So the one thing I'll say is what I said with some of the Mods earlier in private, which is Chic-Fil-A is just the most open about their Right Wing ties, whereas most of these companies still have the unethical ties or play both sides of the political spectrum. Personally, I avoid Chic-Fil-A since I have LGBT friends and my spouse is LGBT, but let's be honest: You can throw a stone in America, and the company you likely hit is doing highly unethical poo poo or donating to groups who do. Its a conundrum to be sure.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:04
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It's hard to keep it civil when people are bending over backwards to justify financially supporting hate speech intended to demonize and strip civil rights from me and people I care about because you like sweet fried meat. This isn't abstract; one of my formative political awareness elections was *flooded* in homophobic advertising and rhetoric that Chik Fil A spent shitloads of money on.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:06
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I'm in Mississippi and eating Chic-Fil-A is done very intentionally to show support for the right wing ideology. So, I refuse to eat it based on protest of that alone.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:07
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ram dass in hell posted:It's hard to keep it civil when people are bending over backwards to justify financially supporting hate speech intended to demonize and strip civil rights from me and people I care about because you like sweet fried meat. This isn't abstract; one of my formative political awareness elections was *flooded* in homophobic advertising and rhetoric that Chik Fil A spent shitloads of money on. Can you provide examples for the thread: Just to clarify I know this is happening, but lets make sure we're clear about it. Taco Bell is a good example: The corporate parent of Taco Bell has been caught funding some very shady groups, and a lot of these restaurant and consumer goods group play both sides of the isle to stay relevant and ensure they have a say no matter if a D or an R is in the seat.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:09
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Refuse to eat it all you want, but don't assume that those who do eat it are ignorant or homophobic shitheads. We all have poo poo going on, and sometimes, a hatewich is all you can get.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:10
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I am pretty sure chick-fil-a dropped most of their really egregious political action and now donates pretty in line with a fairly standard company. It's pretty much a social signifier at this point though. You eat there or not eat their to show off a value, not really based on if they do or don't spend disproportionately on specific causes. (also that seems mostly true outside of their original home range, where they are an outsider restaurant enough to be a "statement")
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Jul 15, 2021 17:11
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I am pretty sure chick-fil-a dropped most of their really egregious political action and now donates pretty in line with a fairly standard company. They go back and forth with it, they dropped it for a while but then went back and did the same thing. They only drop it long enough to take the heat off. But after Trump was elected they were a little more willing to ignore the criticism. https://www.businessinsider.com/chick-fil-a-ties-to-anti-equality-act-efforts-explained-2021-6 Again, a lot of these groups donate against Equality stuff: Wendys, McDonalds, etc. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 17:13
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CommieGIR posted:Can you provide examples for the thread: Just to clarify I know this is happening, but lets make sure we're clear about it. quote:Constitutional changes There was massive backlash against the proponents of proposition 8, the primary funding for all their signature gathering and advertising came from the Mormon church, and a certain chicken restaurant. I have been looking for exact figures to post and was having trouble finding any information at all, when lo and behold: On January 7, 2009, supporters of Proposition 8 filed a federal lawsuit to block public disclosure of their donations. Alleging threats against their lives as well as other forms of harassment, the lawsuit also requested a preliminary injunction that ordered the California Secretary of State to remove information about donations posted on its website. Opponents of Proposition 8 called it "hypocritical" that its supporters would refer to their support of the measure as the "will of the people" while seeking to overturn voter-approved campaign disclosure laws.[237] U.S. District Judge Morrison England, Jr. denied that request on January 29; he said that the public had the right to know about donors of political causes, that he did not agree that the plaintiffs had a probability of success in court, and that they had not proven they would suffer "irreparable injury" if he did not grant the preliminary injunction.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:16
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Golbez posted:Refuse to eat it all you want, but don't assume that those who do eat it are ignorant or homophobic shitheads. We all have poo poo going on, and sometimes, a hatewich is all you can get. No, I'm going to assume that my civil rights are less important to you than your tendies, which makes me conclude things.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:17
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The time to self-audit every dollar spent is itself a function of some form of financial privilege and a poo poo ton of people don't have the time or energy to research the political donations of every corporation from whom they buy products or services. Chickfila makes okay consistent food quickly and isn't any more evil than the myriad corporations who fund child slavery overseas or are actively lobbying to codify their right to kill the biosphere. I'm not going to judge people for making conscientious decision on where they spend their money but don't just assume someone who snags some nuggets for their 4 year old wants to exterminate the LGBT community because it just isn't so.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:20
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ram dass in hell posted:No, I'm going to assume that my civil rights are less important to you than your tendies, which makes me conclude things. Its fine to be angry about it, but again a lot of the common consumer brand companies donate to PACs that push anti-equality as well as donating to the other side.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:23
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CommieGIR posted:Its fine to be angry about it, but again a lot of the common consumer brand companies donate to PACs that push anti-equality as well as donating to the other side. Okay, how many of those companies got a gay marriage ban passed in California with their donations? I live in California, I'm queer, I have numerous LGBTQ friends who had their marriages loving annulled by Prop 8, who had weddings planned and canceled, who suffered enormously as a direct consequence of this particular company throwing their weight around.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:24
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ram dass in hell posted:No, I'm going to assume that my civil rights are less important to you than your tendies, which makes me conclude things. And I'm going to assume that my ability to eat is more important than what a parent company of a parent company of a restaurant donates to.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:24
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I am really sad that there's so many places in the United States where a chic-fil-a is considered anything more than a less than dull but still obviously cheap fast food chicken sandwich. They become a standard through nothing more than their weirdly cultish customer service norms and the relative paucity of decent chicken options.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:26
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Which fast food restaurant would be most ethical to get food from, for me, today: Raising Cane's or Whataburger? Thank you. Chick Fil A is out.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:26
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Golbez posted:And I'm going to assume that my ability to eat is more important than what a parent company of a parent company of a restaurant donates to. You won't die without this particular chicken sandwich, unless you live in the most bizarre food desert situation in the universe
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Jul 15, 2021 17:26
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ram dass in hell posted:You won't die without this particular chicken sandwich, unless you live in the most bizarre food desert situation in the universe I'm going to direct you to the very first reply to this thread.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:27
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ram dass in hell posted:Okay, how many of those companies got a gay marriage ban passed in California with their donations? From the article I cites (granted this is Ohio's Equality Act) quote:Political action committees run by fast-food chains such as McDonald's, Wendy's, and Taco Bell, KFC, and Pizza Hut's parent company Yum Brands donated thousands of dollars to congressional candidates and political groups leading up to the 2020 election. These PACs tend to donate more money to Republican candidates than Democrats. They may not be against LGBT Marriage like Prop 8 was, but they certainly appear to be against laws prohibiting discrimination for being LGBT.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:27
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CommieGIR posted:From the article I cites (granted this is Ohio's Equality Act) So none, then?
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Jul 15, 2021 17:28
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Golbez posted:I'm going to direct you to the very first reply to this thread. "gently caress you and your blanket insults" ? Thanks for keeping it civil.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:29
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ram dass in hell posted:"gently caress you and your blanket insults" ? Thanks for keeping it civil. Yeah, it's not like that's in response to "If you eat at Chick-fil-A, you're just a piece of poo poo, period." or anything.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:29
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ram dass in hell posted:So none, then? So helping pass a law against gay marriage is bad, but helping fund laws to prevent discrimination against LGBTs is not? Are these not basically the same thing?
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Jul 15, 2021 17:30
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Golbez posted:I'm going to direct you to the very first reply to this thread. Most religions with food restrictions tend to have an exception for if you're going to die if you don't eat it, so in that particular case if it's good enough for God it's probably good enough for us
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Jul 15, 2021 17:30
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RBA Starblade posted:Most religions with food restrictions tend to have an exception for "or else you're going to die if you don't eat it", so in that particular case if it's good enough for God it's probably good enough for us Yeah. But I'll still eat there. Because those people helped us when we needed, and I'm not going to hold the crimes of the parent of a parent against the workers there. Hell, I got Chick-fil-A yesterday. It was delicious. "Thanks for working without power, air conditioning, and any media contact whatsoever to give us some semblance of normalcy and to help keep the city from starving, but your parent company gives money to bad people, and that's worse than when other companies do it, so, sorry, not gonna eat here no more." No, I'm perfectly fine with patronizing that Chick-fil-A. Will I eat at others? Dunno, it hasn't come up. Usually when I'm on a trip I don't tend to patronize fast food restaurants that we have at home. But the one here? Absofuckinglutely, without a twinge of guilt. Golbez fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 17:31
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Golbez posted:Yeah. But I'll still eat there. Because those people helped us when we needed, and I'm not going to hold the crimes of the parent of a parent against the workers there. That part's on you then, but you're at least forgiven for eating the homophobic sandwich in your time of greatest need
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Jul 15, 2021 17:32
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Golbez posted:I'm going to direct you to the very first reply to this thread. I gotta say, "well, what if your life did depend on it????" isn't quite the checkmate you seem to think it is.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:33
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RBA Starblade posted:That part's on you then, but you're at least forgiven for eating the homophobic sandwich in your time of greatest need There's nothing "on me" at all. I edited the post to elaborate.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:34
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CommieGIR posted:They go back and forth with it, they dropped it for a while but then went back and did the same thing. They only drop it long enough to take the heat off. But after Trump was elected they were a little more willing to ignore the criticism. Eh, the really big thing was not just the CEO being bad (he is bad) it was that chick fil a as a company was donating money to bad causes. That felt like that was where it specifically crossed a line that made it separate from the other companies that have a bad man for a CEO. Chick Fil A still has the same bad man ceo, but has toned down the company itself making horrible donations and now their worst is basically salvation army, which is bad in it's own very real way but is also extremely mainstream.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:34
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CommieGIR posted:So helping pass a law against gay marriage is bad, but helping fund laws to prevent discrimination against LGBTs is not? Are these not basically the same thing? They're not. Your citation is talking about a congressional act in 2020. You need to understand that the 2008 election in which prop 8 passed was the same ballot on which Barack Obama won the presidency. California voted by popular vote to ban gay marriage statewide at the same time it elected the first black president. The feeling in 2008 was that this was a major repudiation of gay rights - losing gay marriage in California?? At the same time as Obama getting elected? Without the benefit of knowing that 7 years later Obama/Biden administration would push for gay marriage nationwide, this was a brutal, crushing defeat, brought to you by Chick Fil A and the Church of Latter Day Saints. You can't compare that to 2020 and say all companies are equivalent on this
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Jul 15, 2021 17:34
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Baronash posted:I gotta say, this middle school-style "well, what if your life did depend on it????" post isn't quite the checkmate you seem to think it is. Oh, I'm sure people are fine with eating [forbidden food] in a time of crisis and necessity. But maybe instead of insulting people who patronize them as uniformly pieces of poo poo, realize that - as I said - we all have our own reasons and our own poo poo going on. You know, nuance.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:35
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CommieGIR posted:They go back and forth with it, they dropped it for a while but then went back and did the same thing. They only drop it long enough to take the heat off. But after Trump was elected they were a little more willing to ignore the criticism. CFA corporate dropped most of their anti-gay donations (pretty quickly each time they got called on it, first back in 2012 then it expanded with the Salvation Army backlash in 2020), however the CEO himself seems to have stepped up his personal donations to anti-equality stuff. On topic of ethical consumption: how does the thread think consumers picking a fast food meal should weigh the following factors: employee treatment/wages, corporate responsibility/not donating to hateful stuff, animal welfare, enjoyment of their lunch, healthiness of product? MixMasterMalaria fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 17:37
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Golbez posted:Yeah. But I'll still eat there. Because those people helped us when we needed, and I'm not going to hold the crimes of the parent of a parent against the workers there. Clarification questions: did they feed you and your family during that disaster out of the goodness of their hearts, or did they sell you that food? And did those wage slave employees risk their lives going into work that day with no power/AC/etc because they wanted to help their community or because they were compelled by their employer/financial need to?
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Jul 15, 2021 17:40
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Golbez posted:And I'm going to assume that my ability to eat is more important than what a parent company of a parent company of a restaurant donates to. It's not really about the one time you had no other options. Your gratitude is absurd. They didn't open out of the goodness of their hearts and continuing to give them business is actively choosing to gently caress the LGBTQ community because this corporation got their doors back open first when you were in a pinch. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 17:41
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Ok Comboomer posted:Clarification questions: did they feed you and your family during that disaster out of the goodness of their hearts, or did they sell you that food? Yes, they sold it. As for the second part, don't know, but that question would apply to anyone. Does that mean I shouldn't be thankful that those workers and that franchisee were able to reopen before anyone else? You're veering into the perfect being the enemy of the good. "Why do you like [x] they only did that because they were forced to do so by the nature of capitalism" well, yes, that's the curse we live with. Harold Fjord posted:It's not really about the one time you had no other options. But that one time is why I continue to eat there, without a twinge of guilt, and will push back against people who blanket every consumer of Chick-fil-A as a piece of poo poo.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:43
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Eh, the really big thing was not just the CEO being bad (he is bad) it was that chick fil a as a company was donating money to bad causes. That felt like that was where it specifically crossed a line that made it separate from the other companies that have a bad man for a CEO. Chick Fil A still has the same bad man ceo, but has toned down the company itself making horrible donations and now their worst is basically salvation army, which is bad in it's own very real way but is also extremely mainstream. They dropped salvation army too after it got called out. Right now (afaik) it's the CEO and the culture wars symbolism that animates the discussion. Frankly I suspect $115,000 donated to salvation army is not super impactful on an operational harm-causing level so this is as much about the symbolism and justifying CFA-eating as an in-group/out-group cultural signifier as it is about preventing harmful corporate donations. This whole controversy makes CFA so much money, they really lucked into the most profitable passive grift region of the culture wars. MixMasterMalaria fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 17:50
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MixMasterMalaria posted:This whole controversy makes CFA so much money, they really lucked into the most profitable passive grift region of the culture wars. In other words, liberals virtue-signaling about not eating at CFA got conservatives virtue-signaling about eating at CFA. Because I don't remember conservatives caring before liberals did.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:57
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Eater did a breakdown of the political donation data for fast food PACs, CEOs, and employees. The takeaway is pretty clear: If you're going to have nationally-branded fast food and don't want to donate to Republicans, eat at Starbucks, Subway, or Panera. There is no reason to brush off the clear ethical concerns because "everyone does it", since there are clearly major fast food chains that don't. Now as for Chick-fil-A in particular, the issue is that they have spent much more on homophobic organizations than even its fellow fast food chains. In 2018 they provided $1.8 million to what can only be described as evangelical hate groups. They are now defending themselves by pledging to halt their support for extremist organizations, but the reality is that they made the same promises back in 2012. McDonalds is a distant second in PAC donations, with $500,000 in funding to mostly Republican politicians in 2020. And the vast majority of fast food chains / CEOs / employees donate $20,000 - $100,000. For what it's worth, if people are desperate for fried food specifically then Burger King (or its fellow Popeyes / Tim Hortons companies) seems like a decent bet. They had a big shift in donation recipients in 2010 when they got bought up by 3G Capital where it shifted its funding support from Republicans to Democrats. In fact they created a PR campaign specifically targeting Chick-fil-A's homophobia, where Burger King donated to the Human Rights Campaign for every chicken sandwich they sold. Obviously there are often regional and local companies that are even more aligned with good values and have better food. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/burger-king-takes-aim-chick-162030467.html?guccounter=1 https://www.eater.com/2020/10/21/21505080/mcdonalds-wendys-political-donations-trump-biden https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/3/21/18275850/chick-fil-a-anti-lgbtq-donations https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/3g-capital/totals?id=D000059880
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Jul 15, 2021 18:02
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Golbez posted:I'm going to direct you to the very first reply to this thread. Look I get it. After an emergency if it's literally the ONLY place to eat, nobody is going to hate on you for eating it. But instead you seem to be straight up white knighting them saying that, since they happened to be opened first after that derecho, they are now good in your book.
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Jul 15, 2021 18:03
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