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McDonald's donates to Republicans overwhelmingly, but McD's PR problems center on the quality of their offerings, the price, and the associated "cool" factor of even telling anyone you ate at McDonald's.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:50
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Source4Leko posted:Insulting a poster = ok If that is the "insult" required to set you off, you need to take a break.
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Jul 16, 2021 20:19
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CommieGIR posted:If that is the "insult" required to set you off, you need to take a break. Hmmm saying something true means it set me off? Weird perception but ok. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 16, 2021 20:45
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Doctor Butts posted:Beyond dispute is the fact that he slept alone in a bed with a kid for 30 nights in a row. Although one parent was sleeping in another room, I don't see how this behavior is appropriate at all in any context. MJ was an extraordinarily weird dude and it is also a fact that he hung out with kids at his own private amusement park but despite all that, somehow, its still an open question as to whether or not he was a bona fide abuser (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 16, 2021 21:20
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:MJ was an extraordinarily weird dude and it is also a fact that he hung out with kids at his own private amusement park but despite all that, somehow, its still an open question as to whether or not he was a bona fide abuser Lame loving probe.
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Jul 18, 2021 18:22
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Go vegan
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May 3, 2022 16:55
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Enjoy posted:Go vegan Because Vegan has no consumerism around it, no sir.
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May 3, 2022 17:05
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Enjoy posted:Go vegan Done.
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May 3, 2022 17:07
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CommieGIR posted:Because Vegan has no consumerism around it, no sir. 75% of arable land is used for animal agriculture
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May 3, 2022 17:11
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Enjoy posted:75% of arable land is used for animal agriculture This is the ethical consumption thread, veganism is just as much consumerism driven as anything else, even if its more land friendly.
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May 3, 2022 17:28
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Okay but veganism is ultimately more ethical and you're basically re-stating the premise of the thread as a refutation of that. Actually pretty okay with OVO lacto and also with eating non-producing cows and chickens.
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May 3, 2022 17:32
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CommieGIR posted:This is the ethical consumption thread, veganism is just as much consumerism driven as anything else, even if its more land friendly. It isn't possible to consume a sentient being ethically
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May 3, 2022 17:32
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Enjoy posted:It isn't possible to consume a sentient being ethically There is probably no such thing as being perfectly ethical in our society. Vegan is likely a more ethical choice for the reason you state, but it's not like it's perfect either and the whole point of the phrase of the thread title is making the choices where you can.
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May 3, 2022 18:06
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Oxyclean posted:and a lot of of vegan offerings are possibly not ethically sourced. Most people can choose to be vegan.
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May 3, 2022 18:23
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CommieGIR posted:This is the ethical consumption thread, veganism is just as much consumerism driven as anything else, even if its more land friendly. Can you support this argument or are you just saying random opinions you have about how killing conscious beings is fine actually because tu quoque? I'm vegan as part of my spiritual practice and would love to hear your explanation for how that's not true. I mean, I do really have brand loyalty for a few different types of garbanzo beans and lentils but I'm not sure that's the same thing as supporting the 5.5 million factory farmed chickens that were recently "culled" (murdered and incinerated) due to avian flu. ram dass in hell fucked around with this message at 23:41 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 23:39
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I haven't read the whole thread (and based on the string of probes I feel this is a reasonable choice) but there's a Korean fried chicken joint across the street from me, and I feel like they are both a more ethical choice and more delicious than any of the questionable chains mentioned in this thread, at least as much as eating chicken can be. When they say "spicy" they aren't filthy liars, so I feel this gives them, ethically speaking, a leg up on other chicken-focused restaurants who are filthy liars on the subject of spiciness. The breading is also very crisp and stands up to sauce, which is a plus!
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May 4, 2022 06:27
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Enjoy posted:Go vegan low-quality necro
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May 4, 2022 15:09
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Golbez posted:low-quality necro But enough about Chick-fil-A
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May 4, 2022 16:29
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Give it up bud, veganism is a trigger word for internet nerds.
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May 4, 2022 16:43
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Enjoy posted:It isn't possible to consume a sentient being ethically Oh poo poo some body better let the obligate carnivores know. (Yes, I know that doesn't include humans, but the reality is the whole "Be vegan to be ethical" ignores that nature has a lot of species that have to eat meat to survive, are we arguing wild animals are unethical?) Frankly, good for you for choosing to be vegan. I don't want to be vegan. ram dass in hell posted:Can you support this argument or are you just saying random opinions you have about how killing conscious beings is fine actually because tu quoque? I'm vegan as part of my spiritual practice and would love to hear your explanation for how that's not true. I mean, I do really have brand loyalty for a few different types of garbanzo beans and lentils but I'm not sure that's the same thing as supporting the 5.5 million factory farmed chickens that were recently "culled" (murdered and incinerated) due to avian flu. I'm glad its a spiritual thing for you, but you are pretending we don't cull non-food animals as well during outbreaks? We culled a massive amount of Deer due to overpopulation and Chronic Wasting Disease. Its not like you escape cullings to eliminating meat as a food product, they'd continue to happen. But those vegan products are also consumer products out to make a profit, and depending on the producer are likely under a larger umbrella for a major company. Sure, there's caveats around that, but I don't think its that clear cut. The problem with no ethical consumption is until the system is replaced or reformed, we have to consume to survive. There is no truly ethical choice. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 16:48
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CommieGIR posted:Oh poo poo some body better let the obligate carnivores know. Ethics don't exist in nature, they only apply to beings which can reason.
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May 4, 2022 17:02
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I mean, eliminating animals as a human food source would take a ton of the unethical aspects of farming out of the equation, like anything it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing; culling would be unfortunate, but culling as the only source of human-animal violence would be an improvement. But to CommieGIR's point, our system makes being perfectly ethical nearly impossible. Just make the best choices you can (live with.)
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May 4, 2022 17:02
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Enjoy posted:Ethics don't exist in nature, they only apply to beings which can reason. Which we are steadily finding more of in the animal kingdom, so where do we draw that line? The sentient beings being eaten by a lion or a wolf are not worthy because they are being eaten by another sentient being, but it doesn't matter because they cannot reason? Being a prey animal that is sentient being killed by a sentient predator is somehow void? That feels like special pleading. Either sentience is an important characteristic in this, or nature is somehow absolved of the suffering that is part of it by design, we're the only special ones?
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May 4, 2022 17:04
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CommieGIR posted:Which we are steadily finding more of in the animal kingdom, so where do we draw that line? The sentient beings being eaten by a lion or a wolf are not worthy because they are being eaten by another sentient being, but it doesn't matter because they cannot reason? Being a prey animal that is sentient being killed by a sentient predator is somehow void? If animals were able to reason and have ethics, that would be another good cause for going vegan.
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May 4, 2022 17:06
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Enjoy posted:If animals were able to reason and have ethics, that would be another good cause for going vegan. Animals also consume each other. We're animals. Members of many other species of animals also consume animals. Whales are sentient AND can reason, but they feel that eating fish and seals is okay to survive. You are conflating your personal choice with a decisive choice. Its fine for you to decide veganism is for you, its not your choice to deride others for unless you are also willing to accept that nature views predators and meat eating as part of that cycle. Its natural. To put it bluntly: There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, that includes veganism. But by living in the system you must consume to survive. Would you chide a family in poverty for eating chicken because they can afford it?
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May 4, 2022 17:08
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I've done a bunch of vegan cooking, as my partner has been vegan at times over the years. Now they're pescatarian, so we do that. I still eat meat on my own and out to dinner because I very much enjoy it. None of it is "ethical" in any sense. The veggies I eat while vegan are the product of exploitation and gross capitalist waste. Farmers in the mountains of Bolivia grow quinoa for pittance wages and ship it to Los Angeles so tik tok stars can hoover it up, etc. I've been very heartened to see the explosion in meat-alternatives over the last 5 years or so. They're really quite amazing, and I'm sure they'll only get better and cheaper. I'm also really looking forward to the 'lab grown' meat of the near future. That'll be about as ethical as it's possible to get.
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May 4, 2022 17:13
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CommieGIR posted:Animals also consume each other. We're animals. Members of many other species of animals also consume animals. Whales are sentient AND can reason, but they feel that eating fish and seals is okay to survive. Would you say deriding others for not being vegan is bad because it causes unnecessary harm?
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May 4, 2022 17:19
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whatever experienced harm motivates a guy to come in and “well, actually—“ at a vegan is probably entirely justifiable, ngl
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May 4, 2022 17:25
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Enjoy posted:Would you say deriding others for not being vegan is bad because it causes unnecessary harm? Like part of the point of "no ethical consumption under capitalism" is that maybe you shouldn't deride others for not making difficult ethical choices, no?
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May 4, 2022 17:45
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Oxyclean posted:I think deriding others for not being vegan is just unconstructive. But I find it funny. Why is taking pleasure at another sentient being's suffering such a big deal for non-vegans? You're so uptight, just live and let live!
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May 4, 2022 17:46
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Ok Comboomer posted:whatever experienced harm motivates a guy to come in and “well, actually—“ at a vegan is probably entirely justifiable, ngl I'm guessing it's made up harm. A vegetarian or vegan gets insulted fairly regularly, and usually doesn't advertise it beyond daring to buy food specific to their diet in public. You will 100% get comments for picking up a meat substitute or asking or ordering a veggie dish outside of certain cuisine restaurants.
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May 4, 2022 18:39
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I'm guessing it's made up harm. A vegetarian or vegan gets insulted fairly regularly, and usually doesn't advertise it beyond daring to buy food specific to their diet in public. You will 100% get comments for picking up a meat substitute or asking or ordering a veggie dish outside of certain cuisine restaurants. it's insecurity and fragility 100% of the time. CG popped in and straight up said "ok but would you chide a poor???". it's guilt because they recognize they have choices and other people don't choose the same thing they choose and so they flail around trying to come up with some words to say that make the guilt go away. it's not my fault. animals eat animals.
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May 4, 2022 18:42
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Enjoy posted:But I find it funny. Why is taking pleasure at another sentient being's suffering such a big deal for non-vegans? You're so uptight, just live and let live! I've never understood why sentience is the line. Sentience is just feeling sensations and responding to them. Plants are absolutely sentient beings that respond to touch, light, sound, etc. but you have no issue consuming them. I personally draw the line at Sapience. I do not want to eat a self-aware being. that makes much more sense to me than sentience. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 18:52
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Plants don't have a nervous system and they don't have pain receptors.
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May 4, 2022 19:03
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I've never understood why sentience is the line. Sentience is just feeling sensations and responding to them. Plants are absolutely sentient beings that respond to touch, light, sound, etc. but you have no issue consuming them. lmao (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 4, 2022 19:11
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ram dass in hell posted:it's insecurity and fragility 100% of the time. CG popped in and straight up said "ok but would you chide a poor???". it's guilt because they recognize they have choices and other people don't choose the same thing they choose and so they flail around trying to come up with some words to say that make the guilt go away. it's not my fault. animals eat animals. But I don't feel guilty about it, because I don't have a religious belief (like yours) nor personally want to be a vegan (like Enjoy). I feel guilt about an ENTIRE SYSTEM that has been forced upon us, but I got bigger fish to fry than pretending Veganism is the answer. Its not. Its like saying our personal actions are going to solve climate change when its the corporations and the wealthy who are chiefly responsible. Pretending mass veganism is going to change the system is, personally, I believe short sighted and fantastical. Good on you for believing it will and personally taking charge for what you feel is responsible actions. You do you. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:31 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 19:16
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Enjoy posted:Plants don't have a nervous system and they don't have pain receptors. So sentience does not factor into it, only the ability to feel pain? That seems like an incredibly weak argument considering that plants respond to repair damaged tissue, and give off chemical signals when damaged to warn other nearby plants that they have been damaged. it may not be 'pain' via nerve impulses, but why does it matter how the damage is experienced? Damage occurs either way. If we could bio-engineer a fish without a nervous system and would you eat that?
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May 4, 2022 19:17
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I'm guessing it's made up harm. A vegetarian or vegan gets insulted fairly regularly, and usually doesn't advertise it beyond daring to buy food specific to their diet in public. This is anecdotal, friend, unless you have data to share. In my experience I've met tons of very nice vegans who have nothing to say about what others eat, and also a fair few militant rear end in a top hat vegans who bring it up every time we interact and loudly judge non-vegans. It's A Thing.
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May 4, 2022 19:26
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How are u posted:This is anecdotal, friend, unless you have data to share. In my experience I've met tons of very nice vegans who have nothing to say about what others eat, and also a fair few militant rear end in a top hat vegans who bring it up every time we interact and loudly judge non-vegans. It's A Thing. Same. Have multiple Vegan friends, never had a bad encounter with them or vice versa. I'm sure there's some jerks about it, but I don't care: Its their choice.
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May 4, 2022 19:31
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CommieGIR posted:But I don't feel guilty about it, because I don't have a religious belief (like yours) nor personally want to be a vegan (like Enjoy). I feel guilt about an ENTIRE SYSTEM that has been forced upon us, but I got bigger fish to fry than pretending Veganism is the answer. Its not. Eliminating animal agriculture would reduce emissions as much as switching entirely to nuclear power. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:So sentience does not factor into it, only the ability to feel pain? Sentience is the ability to feel things. If an organism doesn't have a nervous system or pain receptors it doesn't feel anything so it doesn't have sentience. It matters how the damage is experienced because causing suffering is immoral, and plants don't suffer. I would probably only eat laboratory grown meat and fish if it were made without hurting animals in the first place, which sounds kind of tough.
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May 4, 2022 19:33
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