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Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
I've been thinking about getting a 3D printer for a while now - there are a fair few uses I could find for it with my analog photography hobby.

Wondering if this Ender 3 Pro listed near me seems like an OK deal at AU$500 ($360 USD) of I should offer less - is more expensive than a new one on eBay, but does seem to have had a lot of the QoL stuff done:

quote:

This Ender 3 Pro has had the following mods added (original parts included too):
- Aluminium extruder
- Aluminum bed adjustment nobs
- BL Touch
- BTT silent motherboard added (BigtreeTech TFT35-E3 V3.0)
- New touch screen added
- Replaced bowden tubes
- Replaced bed tension springs
- Printed spool holder
- Printed drawers (filled with various odds & ends)
- Printed extruder gap fills (to stop filament falling in)

What else is in the box?
- 3 spools of filament
- A tub of grease
- Raspberry Pi 3 B+ (great for running monitoring software - not configured or installed)
- Various odds & ends (springs, screws, allen keys, etc)

Note: calibration will be required as this printer hasn't been configured or used since we moved interstate with the printer. Ender 3s require a fair amount of tinkering to get right, but they can produce excellent quality prints for the price point. Some firmware edits may also be required to get the mods working.

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Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Isometric Bacon posted:

I can't speak for Ender 3 but I have a Prusa and had to put it together and I learned so much from that process that helped immensely the bunch of times I've had to pull it apart to fix things... Since it was my first printer If I'd inherited it or bought one fully built I'm not sure i'd be as confident pulling it to pieces, particularly as I'm not traditionally much of a DIY guy.

If its got a bunch of mods and you aren't familiar with it it might be more difficult to diagnose issues? Or it could be that everyone has those mods and easy to get help.

So just another thing to factor in.

Cool Dad posted:

That seems like a good deal for all of that, with the exception that you won't be able to return it if it doesn't work or you don't like fiddling with your printer. If you're excited to tinker a lot and you're willing to take the risk, it's an excellent deal.

I do not know why it includes a tub of grease, maybe that's just a thing you do in Australia

Paradoxish posted:

The price is okay, especially with the raspberry pi included. If you're buying this from someone in person, I'd inspect the machine very carefully. A well-built/maintained Ender 3 should be really reliable and pretty plug and play, but you don't want someone's mess that they've hacked together unless you're okay with tearing it down and rebuilding. For that much money, you should really be getting something that's ready to go since you can easily buy and fully upgrade an Ender 3v2 for much less than $360.

Thanks for the advice, goons. I offered him $400 keeping in mind the hassle of setting it up vs getting a new one with warranty, which he was happy to accept, so going to pick it up tomorrow morning. Are there any immediately obvious physical red flags I should look out for when I go to pick it up? TBH I'm not going to go over it with a fine-tooth comb, but if there's anything obvious I could spot at a glance I might bail.

I am a big tinkerer (spent this morning re-gluing and patching the bellows in an 80 year old field camera) so that aspect doesn't really bother me... though I'd by lying if I said I wasn't hoping for some hassle-free prints in the next week or two. It should be able to quickly pay for itself once I'm able to print a lensboard adapter and some plate holders for my new camera, and there are a lot of other things I've been keen to try out for some time.

Had a question about setup: is moving the printer around between prints asking for grief? Debating on a couple different corners of the flat to store it, depending on whether it needs to be set in place or if I can move it out when needed.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Picked up the printer this morning :toot: It seems to be something the guy spent a fair bit of time and care on, there are some nice touches like a couple of printed drawers for holding allen keys, spanners, nozzles, etc. I *think* I've got it back together (just the spool holder and display were disconnected) but haven't tried powering it on yet.

It came with a Creality auto bed levelling sensor that doesn't look to have been installed yet; as a beginner would I better off leaving this alone, or is it likely to save me some headache starting out?

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Cool Dad posted:

I would try to get it set up without it first. Watch some bed leveling videos on YouTube, try to get a decent first layer going the old fashioned way. Once you've got a handle on that, then if you want to add the bed level sensor so you can do visualizations and stuff. I think it's better to understand how things work without it before you mess with it, though. If it has an after market motherboard it might be weird to connect a Creality sensor too, as well.

Tinkering with this, I can see why this is the smart advice - unfortunately turns out it was already set up with the auto leveler!

I could see the bed wasn't level in the first corner (front left), but the knob in the corner I needed to raise was already as far up as it would go. I loosened all of them thinking I'd do it from scratch, was looking for the Z-stop adjust and couldn't find it, then realised the auto leveler had already been installed :v:

I was getting it to do a successful test in the centre, but when it went to that first corner it didn't go down far enough to push the probe in, so I was getting a probe error. I spun the adjustment knobs back up to more or less their max height (didn't really crank on it, just snugged them up) and it will happily go through the whole auto bed leveling sequence.

From what I can tell (may very well be wrong), once the auto leveler has done its program, the printer then knows how "off" the bed is, and makes adjustments for it as it prints, as opposed to me manually having to adjust the knobs and do the grabby paper test under the nozzle - is that correct?



Test print not very good, probably at least in part to only having an old gluestick on hand (not at all sticky). Going to get a new one at the store tomorrow, wondering what else I should be trying/adjusting.

This one was before I realised I needed to download Cura and add in the line to use the BL-Touch data. It actually seemed to get worse after I did that though, lol.

Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 28, 2021

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Paradoxish posted:

This looks like a z offset problem to me. You need to come down a lot closer to the bed. You can try just leveling the bed to bring it up a ton, but you're so far off that adjusting the z offset on the machine will be a lot faster and easier.

Hmm, so I went into the auto leveling function - there's something called "BabyStep" that incrementally lets you raise/lower the printer head. I did this and got to -13.0mm before a piece of paper got pretty grabby, so entered -13.0mm into the Z offset function (also in the auto leveling menu).

Printer went through the auto leveling routine of doing a bunch of tests around the bed before it started the print... then made a pretty bad grinding noise as it dragged the printer head across the glass bed (I'm pretty sure). Did a force stop as soon as I could. Don't see any scratches on the glass bed and nozzle *seems* OK, but do notice the plastic BTouch probe is now bent (I bent it back for now, but fortunately came with a spare).

What just happened, and what should I be trying to do to prevent it from happening again?

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

SEKCobra posted:

Sounds like you set a z offset before homing the axis.

I went into Movement > Home > Z and repeated, got the same number (-13.0mm) - anything else I should try?

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Isometric Bacon posted:

I'm wanting to build a IKEA lack enclosure for the printer but just getting acrylic / perspex sheets is going to run me a several hundred dollars.

As a fellow sufferer of the :australia: tax, I think you need to find a new supplier; I am down in Tasmania and acrylic is not particularly dear. My supplier charges about $16 for custom cuts as a "turn the machine on" fee, but that's basically as a flat rate; I think it's like $0.10 per cut after that. The material itself is pretty cheap, I got a bunch of 3mm black acrylic cut to use for doing wet plate collodion (*far* cheaper than sourcing black glass from China, although it's one shot as opposed to reusable and doesn't have the nice heft glass does).

Looking that lack enclosure up, my rough guess would be maybe AU$50-75. Heck, I got a decent-sized custom storage box for my plates designed, fabricated, and assembled from my vague crap sketches for under two hundred, which felt like a lot at the time.

If you don't need 100% perfect cuts, you can cut it yourself with a jig saw, acrylic blade, and patience (slow feed and blade speed). I couldn't get straight enough cuts for bonding it into a box with my crap Ozito jigsaw, but if it's just getting slotted into something wooden you should be fine if you can deal with a few mm variance. If you've got access to a table saw that should give you nice straight cuts, I made a pair of boxes a few weeks ago on the one at work.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Got my Ender 3 Pro working (see below), have started off on some initial prints. The fan is pretty loud but the machine itself is otherwise pretty quiet... it's gonna live downstairs anyways, so I'm not too fussed.

As far as placement, I am thinking of putting it on top of a minifridge in an a corner alcove (the fridge won't be running, I use it as a fermentation chamber and it generally needs heat rather than cooling), any reason not to do this? I think I will have to get an enclosure before summer ends as it generally stays pretty cold down there most of the rest of the year.

Sagebrush posted:

You might be able to do some very light etching into anodized aluminum, like the engraved text on the bottom of a MacBook, if you go super slowly. But really those tiny blue lasers are best suited for cutting paper to make Christmas cards, or lightly toasting the surface of wooden discs to make coasters. With no shielding on the machine they are rather dangerous, and I personally don't think they add a significant additional capability.

Could you engrave regular aluminium? I actually use the anondised trophy plate for shooting tintypes, but the image goes on the anondised side. It would be very cool if I could engrave on the reverse, however.

RabbitWizard posted:

I was wondering if it is better to pick up a used printer than getting a new one as a beginner. I got mine used and I didn't have any problems where I needed to figure out if a part was borked (Creality QA) because the previous owner checked everything for me. I also couldn't gently caress up the build. I feel like lovely parts and tiny errors while building were mentioned a lot in this thread. But maybe I just remember it different because it felt really good that I had spent less money for my printer and didn't have to deal with all of that :smug:

Speaking of someone who went this way, I wouldn't again*. The PO of mine was basically washing his hands of it (judging by the printed mods it came with I think he had plenty of success with it, but just sorta put it in a box and forgot about it) so it was up to me to try and figure out how to set it up. For starters, approaching it as a new user, I was having trouble finding the z-stop switch until I realised it wasn't on the machine anymore because he'd installed a BLtouch :v: All of the menus were different because he had installed a touchscreen TFT and Marlin. As a result it was really hard to find the exact info I needed because it was so different from stock. I spent a few fruitless afternoons trying and getting nowhere.

In the end I happened across another guy in FB market place who was doing 3D printing as a side hustle, and asked him what he'd charge to take a look at my printer and help me get it straightened out. As it turned out one of his printers is an Ender 3, but even though he was really knowledgeable he had a hell of a time trying to get it set up with the included mods. In the end he did what I had been thinking I'd have to: remove the BL touch, remove the TFT, roll back the firmware to stock Marlin, and set up from there. It still took us like 4 hours. Also the filament it came with is probably not much good (absorbed too much moisture), not that I was really counting on that all that much.

tl;dr: *If you're getting it as a turn-key setup and the person doesn't mind providing some future support I think it's OK, otherwise I would have much rather bought a stock one and built it myself from the ground up, so that I'd have a better idea of what I was doing.

Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jan 24, 2022

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Ambrose Burnside posted:

fwiw there’s a big difference between buying a machine from someone who’s struggled and given up on getting good prints and wants to watch their hands of it, and the people who use their machines effectively
but have hit the limits of what they can do (or they’re downsizing their shop, or etc). the former is almost always bad news unless you really want a challenge, but i’d expect to get an honest assessment and useful troubleshooting +setup tips from the latter, which can be a huge help if ypu’re taking a route that involves no customer support number you can call up if you get stumped

Yes, definitely. Looking back at the advert (saved the text), it sounds like he had it working fine, added the mods, then gave up when he couldn't get them working properly. We didn't have any more luck so I reckon I'll just leave them.

Finished second print (first one was a really short 45 minute job) - I've had to split several of the components owing to the Ender's print bed size, so fingers crossed it all goes together. One corner is curled up slightly, any recommended ways to try and bend it back? Printed with PLA.

For tomorrow I'm gonna try and do this lens board adapter - was looking for any tips on print settings (Ender 3, PLA) since there are some overhangs. I have already cut the bottom bit off (it's a light trap that probably won't even fit my camera) to eliminate the first one, but in centre towards the top there looks to be one where the bottom of the lens board would slot in.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.


Dusted off my rusty CAD skills to design and print my first standalone* project, a lens board for my 5x7 field camera. Going to buy a cheap caliper so I can get measurements dialed in a little better, but it's perfectly usable as-is. Ratcheted up the speed to 150% once the base was down since I wasn't too concerned about aesthetics or tolerances on what was basically a "will this work?" experiment.

Although quite simple, it was a very satisfying process from start to finish. I'm hooked :kiddo:

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
One corner of my print curled up (the one that I have to glue to the other half) - tbh I think I am going to have to redo it, but is there a recommended way to heat/try to re-form PLA?

edit: nm, don't think it's salvagable as is, but think there's a good chance I can cut the bent part off and turn it into a plate holder for a smaller format.

Sauer posted:

Lovely. Make sure to light test the lens board, most filaments are not entirely opaque unless you really lay down the layers. Had to coat the interior of a pinhole camera made in black PETG to stop some dim light bleed through on the thinner walls.

Thanks for the heads up on that! Is there a filament that is pretty good at being light tight?

Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 26, 2022

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Droogie posted:

Assuming you don't live near an ikea, any good insulation ideas for ABS printing on an ender 3? Physically building an enclosure out of raw materials is not an issue. Just looking for some ideas or inspiration.

E : for clarification, as enclosures were being discussed, I guess Is there any reason to not build one out of home insulation panels? Like a box of it large enough to enclose side attachments with a removable front.

You can try your local FB Marketplace or similar site - I'm 700kms and a ferry ride away from the nearest IKEA and there was someone selling a single Lack for $5 about 20 minutes from me, which I'm picking up tomorrow. I'm just going to put it on a piece of MDF or something until a second one (or something close enough) pops up. IKEA is a universal constant.

D-Pad posted:

Does anybody have suggestions on a good enclosure for a Ender 3 V2 for dealing with ventilation/fumes and what not? I've got the printer in my garage which also doubles as my office and leisure space and there are no windows. I see that you can get enclosures with active charcoal filtration systems, but I am skeptical that some of the ones I am seeing have enough to actually remove all the bad stuff. At some point I plan on getting a couple more printers so I'm thinking of just having a dryer vent installed on the outside wall that I can run ducting to from the enclosures, I've seen several pre-made and DIY products to mount a duct like that to an enclosure. I'm also aware that DIY is a possibility for the enclosure itself. I don't mind spending a little money to save the hassle of having to build one but I'm open to hearing about any DIY advice anybody has.

Also, once I have an enclosure is printing PLA going to be a problem due to higher temps?

I was coming in to ask something similar; mine is going to be in an Lack enclosure (not sure I'm going to go to the trouble of gasketing the door), but I have no way to vent it to the outdoors in my flat. It'll be downstairs where my partner and I don't spend a tonne of time, but wondering how bad the ABS fumes might be. The room its in is about 5x6m (guessing).

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Is Fusion 360 the recommended go to for a free CAD program? I have some experience with 3D Studio Max when I had access to it in an educational setting but lmao at that AU$300/month pricetag. Looking for something with a good support base/available YouTube tutorials, ideally a series.

Currently I'm using 3D Builder (free download from Microsoft), which has actually been pretty useful so far, but am already starting to bump up against some of the limitations.

D-Pad posted:

I'm really new to all this but from what I have read if you are printing ABS I would definitely get some sort of activated charcoal filter for the enclosure. I've seen some that you vent out of the enclosure through the filter and some where the filter sits inside the enclosure and just recirculates the air inside but removes the air cooties in the process.

Looked a few of these up and that seems very doable, thank you!

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Thanks for all that, guys!

I forgot to mention, I am a secondary teacher (in Australia) if that opens up any other free/significantly reduced subscriptions. TBH it'd have to be pretty amazing to be a paid subscription though, try to keep my recurring expenses to a minimum.

Question for anyone who has done the Lack enclosure: people on the Ender 3 subreddit are ballparking 40 hours of printing for the parts, but I loaded one of the four risers (there's another set of four as well, plus plenty of other parts) and Cura told me 9 hours at 20% infill for just the one. Am I missing something? Since most of the pieces are structural I'm not keen on reducing infill much more than that.

edit: also, if anyone has any videos to share for Cura tips and tricks (how to optimise positioning of pieces on the bed, when to use the various types of support/adhesion settings, etc) that'd be most welcome.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Looks like I get more or less a full license as an educator, although I'm going to have to wait until I get my 2022 ID to confirm that.

Vaporware posted:

I printed the lack mk2 as my first project and it took yeah about a week but I was only printing while I could watch it. Also the presliced files from Prusa take sightly more than a KG (even skipping the MMU stuff) which lol I should have looked into at the beginning.

Acrylic being so expensive rn takes a lot of the DIY fun out of it.

Yeah, my current policy is only if someone is home, although I do run it overnight. Smoke detector is right above it - finally got around to buying one.

I haven't bought any acrylic in a couple months but I haven't found it to be too dear, even paying the :australia: tax. I do have access to a table saw at work so can cut it down myself if needed.

I've also got the stuff to cut glass at home but my results have been... mixed with that so far, so probably just gonna stick with the acrylic.

Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jan 29, 2022

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

mewse posted:

Layer thickness (layer height?) affects print time drastically. Thicker layers -> less layers -> less print time. My prusa slicer is showing 0.20mm as "normal", 0.16mm as "optimal" and 0.12mm as "detail". 0.24 "DRAFT" is probably good enough for enclosure parts. Don't know what this setting is called in Cura.

Ahhh, that makes sense. It's a very accessible slider I've been just leaving alone. Cura also seems to default to .20mm (or maybe I set it up like that initially). Would switching to a .8mm nozzle also help?

Also, I can't see any discernable difference side-by-side in the leg brackets I printed at 100% and 150% speed, so gonna crank that.

Sagebrush posted:

Ima just shill for Rhino again, because their licensing scheme is extremely straightforward: you buy it, you own it forever. If you buy rhino 7 you'll get free updates until rhino 8 comes out in a couple of years, and after that you can pay a pittance to upgrade or just keep using version 7 as long as you want. The files are backwards and forwards compatible for the most part, so there's no forced upgrading. And if you are in any way connected to an educational institution, it's even better: instead of $1,000, the license costs $150, and it's identical to the commercial version in every way. You can use it forever, you can use it for paid work, everything. It just says educational in the window title bar.

The only arguable downside of rhino is that it's optimized for free form surface modeling, not mechanical CAD work. It can certainly do mechanical stuff, just not as efficiently as something like Fusion or SolidWorks. If Rhino also had a parametric modeling kernel like SolidWorks I would probably never use anything else.

Oh, that sounds cool. Probably a stupid question, but by "mechanical CAD work" do you mean solid modeling? The latter sounds like what I've been doing in 3D Builder (being able to subtract stuff is very handy, which it sounds like with surface modeling would leave you with hollow, open models). I may very well have misread the article though.

SEKCobra posted:

Had to get a new fridge, quickly whipped up some extensions for the feet so I could actually level it. These sorts of small, custom pieces are really the most amazing part of 3D printing, because they can very easily solve small issues where everything else would be a lot more complicated.

TBH I've always used coins of varying denominations and thickness as shims/levelers. But a 3D printed part that you can screw in and forget about is a lot better.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Speaking of filament, I bought this on special at Jaycar (still a bit of a rort, but wanted to get a drop on printing the Lack enclosure parts so I can start printing ABS as soon as possible):



The scare quotes are not reassuring!

It's actually been fine so far, but I definitely see what the poster talking about infill and camera parts meant about some light getting through (not the case with the black stuff I have, thankfully).

What sort of things do you guys like to print with PLA? Since a lot of my stuff is going to be used in the field/get left in a car on the regular I am going to go back and redo most of this in ABS to be safe. I am probably going to have about a half-dozen mostly full spools of PLA hanging around though, between what came with the printer and the bulk lot of unopened filament (PLA and ABS) I'm picking up on Tuesday.

Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jan 30, 2022

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Nerobro posted:

Yes, you probally are. Why are you guessing? "I'm not comfortable" What's that based on? You can do the math on the strength of the plastic. Infill doesn't' really provide much strength, it just provides weight, and support for the first layer of the closure of the top. PLA has a tensile strength of 50mpa. How much weight is your lack enclosure gonna support? When you do the calculation, ignore the infill. Then print it with 4 walls, and a bunch of top layers.

If it makes you feel any better. The lack table itself, is something like 3% infill. (it's got a corrugated cardboard fill for most of it) With a 3-ish mm wall thickness.

Cura is a place of pain. It's time calculator isn't great. Go get yourself running PrusaSlicer, you'll not regret the move.

for most of those peices, you can also print much faster than the stock 40-50mm/s. So that can save you some time too.

I see what you mean, now that I've taken the Lack table apart. I did slightly crack one or two of the supports tightening the screws down too much, but that was more user error than the fault of the infill settings.

My enclosure is going to have drawer slides so I can pull the printer out to fiddle with it/get something stubborn off the print bed. Thought I had some suitable timber in the shed but must have used it on another project earlier this summer, so will have to make another trip to Bunnings after work today. Also going to be taking the place of the upright freezer I use for fermenting, so bottom 90cm or so is going to be a homemade fermenting chamber.

Speaking of Cura, has anyone had issues with it developing a mind of its own wrt Gcode? It seems like at some point, it went a bit crazy and randomly adds some lines (I have not looked at the Gcode myself, just assuming that's what's happening) to do its own thing at some part of the print. For example, I put one of those nose clip things for masks in and towards the end of the print it'll drop the head down and hit it into the print, causing it to shoot off the printer bed to the righthand side. That was kind of funny (and useful, in its own way) but less funny was coming down and seeing about half of a 15 hour* HEPA filter with one melted corner and a growing nest of spaghetti that would have happened somewhere around the 7 hour mark :colbert: It seems to be all the things I sliced after a certain point, older files are printing without issues. I haven't tried rebooting my computer yet (just did, and installed some new RAM for unrelated reasons) but I'm gonna take this as a sign to try another slicing program.

*was having some trouble getting the nozzle off, so decided to just leave it for now and just deal with a .4 for the big print.

Sagebrush posted:

No, Rhino can do solid modeling.

The two main ways of representing 3D data in a computer are polygon modeling and NURBS modeling.

In polygon modeling, all of your geometry is broken up into triangles or quadrangles and you move the polygons' vertices and edges to make the right shape. This is easy and flexible for creating arbitrary shapes, but it's inherently imprecise because you can't represent curved shapes accurately. You can get something smooth enough for a game or movie, but not for engineering work. An axle has to have a perfectly circular profile, and representing it as an 8-sided or 20-sided or even 1000-sided polygon is not good enough.

In NURBS modeling, you use mathematical curves to generate the geometry. NURBS stands for "non-uniform rational B-spline," which is the specific type of curve equation that is used. Polygon vs NURBS modeling is comparable to the difference between pixel art that you make in Photoshop, and vector art that you make in Illustrator. The curves can be rendered at any resolution you need by sampling the equation, so a circle is genuinely a perfect circle and every surface is totally smooth. For engineering and design work this is great. However, because the surfaces are defined by mathematics rather than a list of vertices, the way you work with them is more complicated. Initially, like in the 1970s, NURBS modeling meant calculating coefficients by hand and plugging them into the equations. Today we have much better ways, but it's still not as intuitive as polygon modeling "grab this vertex and drag it where you want it." Because working with NURBS is hard, we've settled on two main software-assisted techniques of editing the geometry: solid modeling and surface modeling.

In solid modeling, your model is treated as if it's a solid block of wood. If you drill a hole through a block of wood, you expect it to behave like a solid chunk, with an inside wall on the hole and everything. Here is a nice NURBS eggplant, and when I cut a hole through it in solid mode, you can see the whitish interior.



However, the original eggplant didn't actually have an "interior!" It was just a NURBS surface shell. If I work with the same eggplant in surface mode and cut a hole through it, I get this:



It's as if the eggplant was made of papier-mache and I cut a hole on both sides with a hobby knife. This is the only difference between a "surface" model and a "solid" model, or surface modeling vs. solid modeling techniques. In the solid cut, the software first cut through the hollow eggplant surface model, then went back in and added a new surface connecting the two holes, simulating the behavior of a solid object. In surface modeling, it just cuts the holes and doesn't add the white surface. If I took the surface model and manually added another patch connecting the holes, it would be geometrically identical to the solid.

So surface vs. solid modeling is just two ways of looking at the same geometry, and both are equally valid for engineering-type work. Solid modeling processes are a little easier to understand, and often quicker, so they're more common; SolidWorks, Fusion 360, CATIA, Creo, Unigraphics, Alibre, etc etc are all primarily solid modelers. Surface modeling gives you deeper control over the exact shape, which is required for making car bodies, boat hulls, high-end product housings, and such. It's harder to learn and more finicky, so surface-first programs are more rare; Rhino and Alias have most of the market. But because the geometry is interchangeable, Rhino can do solid modeling just fine, and SolidWorks has a set of basic surfacing tools for when they're required.

Back to the original statement. When I said Rhino is not as good at mechanical CAD, what I meant was that it's not parametric. In addition to being a NURBS modeler and a solid modeler, SolidWorks is a parametric modeler. This means that everything in your model is defined by a set of parameters -- mathematical inputs and relationships -- that all build on one another.

To draw a box in SolidWorks, you start with a rectangle on a plane, and assign each side of the rectangle a length. Those lengths are stored as numerical dimensions in a database. You then extrude the rectangle, and the length of the extrusion is also stored as a dimension. This creates your box. If you want to change the shape of the box, you go back to your database and edit the driving values. Change the extrusion height and the cube gets taller or shorter. Make the two rectangle legs the same size, and also link them to the height, and you have a cube. At any time in your model you can go back and edit those original driving dimensions, and your model will "rebuild" (update) into a modified version with -- if you did a good job assembling it -- no additional work on your part. This is extremely valuable if you're building, say, a car transmission. Need to make one gear larger? Just adjust the database entry for the number of teeth on that gear, and if you built everything else properly, the other gears will adjust their sizes to accommodate. Make the gears thicker and the whole transmission housing can extend automatically. It's great any time you have a part with a lot of accurate dimensions that need to stay related to one another.

However, parametric modeling is also restrictive. Often, you cannot just change something by, say, pushing or pulling on it. You can't just grab a part and drag it to where you want it, because it was generated by some feature, which in turn was generated by another feature, which is based on this geometry which is connected to that part which was drawn over here...and so on. The parametric connections make it hard to use a parametric modeler for freeform work, where you might want to just spend half an hour carefully massaging one surface to get it to look beautiful, and who cares what it's connected to -- you'll deal with that later. Rhino takes the freeform approach, and lets you do that massaging, but if you build a transmission with it and want to change a gear, you'll be manually rebuilding everything else that's affected by that change too. Similarly, building a box in Rhino is just a matter of drawing out the box at whatever dimensions you want, and it pops into existence -- and then it's done. If you want to change the height, you have to physically grab the top surface and move it to where you'd like it to be, calculating or measuring out the right displacement to get it there. There is no "height" parameter that you can change to have the software move it for you.

So this is my original point -- I love Rhino, and it's totally capable of doing solid or surface modeling. You can make solid 3D printable parts with it just as well as any other software. However, if you have a large complicated assembly that you're working through, continuously having to make adjustments based on measured dimensions, it's going to be more of a headache to do it in Rhino than in a parametric modeler like SolidWorks. Not impossible, just more time-consuming.

I've taught courses in both Rhino and SolidWorks for many years, and I find that preference is about an even split, it turns out. Half of the people I teach love Rhino and put up with SolidWorks; the other half are the other way. I have ascended beyond such concerns and use both equally where their relative strengths are the most important.

But Rhino is a lot cheaper, it's less buggy, it runs faster, the company is nicer, and I think the UX -- while a little dated looking -- is better than SolidWorks too. Hence why I say if only Rhino had a parametric kernel too, I'd never use anything else.

:words:

I'm quoting this whole thing so I have easy access to it when looking back at the thread, and in case anyone missed it. Very well explained - thank you for taking the time to spell all that out!

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Lol, this fan housing print is cursed. Had a power outage in my town, doesn't look like my Ender 3 (Marlin 2) has a "resume after power loss" function. Only about 3-4 hours lost this time at least.

The default Prusa supports are a lot easier to remove than the default Cura ones, that's for sure. Also seemed to shave a few hours off the print estimate, though gonna need to investigate settings later as I was getting some stringing towards the base.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Gay Retard posted:

I scored one of those $100 Ender 3 Pros from Microcenter and I'm already $100 deep in upgrades and eying resin printers. What have I done?

I'm very keen to start printing ABS, so mine is beetling away at printing some new supports for the LACK enclosure.

It turns out I gave the acrylic place the wrong measurement (11mm short on height), so after weighing up "buy more filament at retail markup and redo this weekend, or pay $60 to get new acrylic cut by sometime next week" I decided to do the former. Knocked the 11mm I needed off in 3D Builder when I got home, and started printing the replacement parts* right after. It's going to be multiple levels, so I can re-use the original ones elsewhere. Had the good sense to put layer height to .3 this time which shaved a non-trivial amount of time off the print.

Test fit of the first two:



Also got my educational license for Fusion 360 :getin:

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Got my LACK enclosure mostly put together:



Hinges need re-alignment (or I need to sand some edges elsewhere) but it does close, don't really think I'll even need the magnets I have on order. Haven't sealed the edges up with silicone yet because I'm planning to partially dismantle it later, chop up the floor, and add some drawer slides to create a platform so I can pull the printer out if I need to. Will also relocate the PSU and motherboard underneath to keep them cooler, screen to the front, and a few other bells and whistles (Octoprint on a Pi, LED strip lights, temp and humidity sensor, etc).

Took a surprising chunk of the day to get things put together, but feels satisfying. Did my first bit of plastic welding on the HEPA/charcoal filter (blue/green thing at the top) - realised I didn't have the longer bolts I needed to join everything together, but was able to just press-fit the fan, filters, etc, then weld the two big pieces together.

On the downside, I tried a quick ABS print to test and was getting poor bed adhesion at 240C nozzle/88C bed. Should I go higher on the bed temp? It didn't feel particularly warm inside the enclosure when I opened the door, wondering if I should be heating it somehow.

Also, whomever was chuckling at me worrying about 20% infill on parts I was printing for a LACK enclosure (because of the LACK's cardboard infill), I get it now:



:pwn:

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Using one of those mask nose clips to test (it's a quick ~20-25m print):

I've upping the bed temp to 100C and did some playing around with fan settings in Cura (leaving it off until the 5th layer, max 30% speed). The first layer seemingly went down well, but when I came to check on the print at around the 75% mark it had come loose from the brim and was wiggling around under the nozzle. I stopped the print and took it out. I noticed that the brim was still reasonably adhered to the bed, however when I went to peel it off the individual lines came apart (with PLA they always stay together in one solid piece). I'm guessing this is what happened to the print; the piece separateed from the brim in the same manner.

Another guide was suggesting 110C bed temp so I may try that (trying a glue stick for now), any other things I should try? I've got a glass bed and an enclosure, and have gotten good results with PLA so far.

Sauer posted:

I work in the "ready to assemble" furniture industry and honeycomb filled panels are magical. Stronger than a particle board panel of same thickness for a fraction of the weight. Exceptional for table tops due to its strength in tension versus particle board which has next to none. Uses less material overall and most of it is recycled/recyclable. Its the weight savings that is a win for the manufacturers; they're pricier to produce than a particle board panel so you make up for it in shipping.

Serenade posted:

Looks like a torsion box to me! Which has a lot of mechanical engineering theory behind it that I don't understand, but is an easy way to make something resist bending, reduce weight, and use less materials. It's not uncommon for mass produced furniture, like this conference room table being recycled in some youtube video.



Now that I think about it, Sandwich theory is probably the underling theory to why infill works in 3d printing.

Yeah, it's really quite amazing how strong it is - you'd swear it was a solid panel were it not for the weight. At any rate it was a relief when it came time to cut; my jigsaw blade was barely long enough to go all the way through the tabletop, it would have been messy/difficult if it had been solid wood.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Nerobro posted:

Teeheehee. I wasn't kidding. That "shell" with a little bit on the inside, is how you build airplanes too.

So... the best way to deal with ABS, is not to exahsut it like that, but to have a filter INSIDE the chamber, so the air gets passed over the carbon several times. By running it in exhaust like that, you're also limiting your chamber temps.

The bed should be at least 100c. 240 is even kinda cool for ABS. The bed will heat the chamber very nicely, if you're not sucking air out of it.

Ah, so have a fan/filter inside the enclosure that just sucks the air through a filter and spits it out the other end (also inside the chamber), to try and cycle all the VOC's through it and capture them in the filter?

Also, when do you need to change out the charcoal filter (if ever? haven't seen any reference to this, I had to special order them so hoping I can get a fair bit milage out of them).

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
New fun problem: my new ABS filament seems to wrapped around the spool in such a way that it randomly binds/jams. Has anyone had this issue, and what are potential fixes?

The PLA I used to test the enclosure last night did a 10 hour print no dramas, but I'm on my second failed 2.5 hour print with the ABS, due to not catching it fast enough and having the printer start printing in midair once I free it.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

insta posted:

Slack the filament, and pull several loops at once off the side of the spool. If you have 3 strands connecting the loops in your hand back to the spool, it's still tangled. Keep pulling several loops off at once until you're down to 1 strand connecting what's in your hand to what's in the spool. Now, respool it. You'll chase the tangle out.

The filament has re-tangled itself the instant it isn't in:
1) your hand
2) the hotend, or
3) the hole on the side of the spool

Just get in the habit of pulling coils and rewinding if the end of the filament is ever loose.

I got it in the end just flailing on my own, but will keep this in mind for next time (which hopefully there won't be). I must have made it worse at first because it was really twisted and looping around itself in some weird, seemingly non-Euclidean ways, but got the final kink out with a couple minutes to spare. Will definitely be more vigilant about the loose end from here on out.

Got a 10 hour print knocked out overnight with no issues :toot:

Also, curious what/if people do to keep track of remaining filament? I started this spreadsheet yesterday:



(I got all the 3DFillies locally for $50 from a guy who had dropped the hobby, and a few came with my printer)

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
The glass bed on my Ender 3 Pro is all I've known, but the only times I've had problem with a print getting stuck to it are if I try to pull it off before it cools. If I wait for it to get down to room temp, it comes right off.

Roundboy posted:

first ABS @230 / 90 and sticks like a champ. No enclosure just 3 sides of cardboard around the printer as a shield. Completely untuned using superslicers generic ABS profile with the temps changed, Some tuning room is there but I declare this good enough for the couple functional prints i need to make my voron brrrrrr

That's impressive! I tried ABS at 240/100 in an enclosure and it basically didn't stick at all, had to up a few degrees on each (and now it's totally fine).

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Isometric Bacon posted:

I feel this too here in Australia. The only place that I know of that stocks it is $10 more per roll, has a single colour, and by all accounts I've read online is garbage quality.

I'm impatient and perpetually busy, so I don't often when a idea for a project arises I want to satisfy it -right now- and it takes at least a week to come from my supplier.

No Jaycar near you? Mine has a decent assortment of PLA and ABS at least. There is of course a retail markup but they've had the Flashforge on clearance (I think they're switching to eSun) so around $26 for a 1kg spool.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

Isometric Bacon posted:

Oh nice!

Jaycar was actually what I was referring to. It was $35 for a kilo spool and they only had black last I looked at the one near me. I read online once 'never buy jaycar filament' and it stuck. I can't remember the brand they had at the time but I thought it was a generic one. Sounds like I've been under the wrong impression. How's the flashforge filament?

I've been exclusively using eSun / cubictech at the moment (only because it was recommended to me, and I've never had any issues with it - open to trying something new) with their pla+ being about $25 / kg, but they do charge shipping so I end up waiting until I need a bulk order of a bunch of colours.

Jaycar stocking eSun will suit me nicely.

Yeah, the eSun is $40/1kg (their normal price), but the Flashforge that they're trying to clear out is down to something like $26 after the club discount. That's actually about what it goes for on eBay so I'm not mad at all. They are OoS online but if you put in your postcode you can see if your local one still has some in stock. Mine has had it hanging around for a month or two so doesn't seem to be flying off the shelves.

I've had no issues with the FlashForge, aside from all the unopened 3DFillies I picked up secondhand recently I've only been buying generic Chinese stuff on eBay, which has also been fine.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
So I was going to start setting up OctoPrint on the Pi3 that came with my Ender this morning, and I noticed there's a version called Octo4a that you can install on a stock Android phone as well.

Not that I necessarily have any other plans for the Pi, but I do have my old Galaxy S7 Edge gathering dust in a drawer. Curious if anyone else has tried using it and what your experience is like. I still have the Quadlock case so getting it mounted securely shouldn't be an issue at all.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Anyone running a UPS backup for their printers? I was 2.5 hours into a 19 hour print* and had the power go out right before bed, I assume due to the storm going on outside. I set it back up and as I was laying in bed the power went out again; decided to call it for the night. Since I can only do prints this long on the weekend (and only on the ones where I'm going to be home the whole time) it's pretty annoying!

I've heard of printers with a "resume" function, but don't see it anywhere on my Ender 3 Pro with Marlin. Not sure how useful it'd be; the 2.5 hour print had a big mark where the hot nozzle had stopped.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Thanks guys. There is a used/"like new" 1200w one for sale near me on Marketplace for $100 so I may see if the guy takes $80. Little brownouts (and sometimes longer ones, but can't do much about that) seem to happen a bit more living in a country town.

Random question: does anyone else's pet seem weirdly attracted to their printer? My cat has a habit of coming up and sitting on the chair near it when it's in use. She can't actually see up onto the table to see what's going on, and with the enclosure/distance it wouldn't be providing any heat... maybe she finds the noise of the stepper motors soothing or something?

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Pretty stoked to score three LACK tables so I can finish off my enclosure (no IKEA's around me, couldn't be bothered with the shipping).

I realised I could just use a tupperware turned over for the spool, rather than building the whole second level :negative:

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Been having an intermittend E1 heating error on my Ender 3 Pro, right at 230C. Usually it'll right itself after a few power cycles or leaving it for a while, but giving me a lot of grief right now. I've googled it and will poke around at the thermistor when I get a chance, in the meantime gone back to PLA.

In the meantime, does anyone in Australia have a recommended supplier for a replacement hotend just in case? I'm having trouble finding something that's both not AU$200+ and reputable (in terms of quality/reliability).

On a brighter note, been having fun designing and printing (well, until last night) a trophy for the Year 7 science competition at school. I was muddling along with Windows' 3D Builder before, which generally involved ridiculous workarounds trick it into doing what I wanted; now that I've invested the time in a couple of F360 tutorials I'm able to make much more involved stuff, much easier, despite the significantly more complicated interface. I'll post up a pic of the trophy once I've got it printed and assembled.

edit: actually - any tips for getting rather fine lettering to print on PLA? It's mostly OK, but in a few places the finer details are filled in or not there. I don't have much scope to increase the letter height from 3.5mm, but could perhaps increase the spacing between the letters slightly? Am printing at .1mm height and base 100% speed (does slowing it down help?).

Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 27, 2022

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
I started with 3D Builder, which is Microsoft's free tool you can download for Windows. It can do very basic stuff but requires some creativity to trick it into doing anything beyond the bare bones; I was doing stuff like making dummy shapes to snap the real ones too (and then delete) in order to place stuff with any degree of precision.

I have been using Fusion 360 since - the limitations on the free version are not that big for most users (10 files open at once is the main one), but I get the education version free since I'm a teacher. I was having a hard time finding helpful tutorials at first as the UI has changed a bit with more recent updates; the circa 2016 videos I was trying to follow were just different enough to make it maddening.

This guy's Learn F360 in 30 days series seem both useful and recent enough, although I'm only like 5 videos in. Most what I'm doing is pretty simple stuff so that's actually been enough for me for right now.

Borrowing from teaching, I use an "I do, we do, you do" approach where I watch the video through once taking notes on the steps, not so much the measurements but the concepts/tools. I then work through actually making the model a second time while the video plays. The third time I try to make my own thing using the same steps, ideally without looking back at the notes.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Was having some issues with my printer just... not putting filament out. Turns out it had snapped in the bowden tube; was pretty easy to take apart and clear.



Chugging along doing test prints with PLA for now; I'm not good at visualising stuff in my head so helps to have a prototype to move around, make notes, on, and then iterate. Filament's cheap and I kinda feel like my printer is robbing me if it's not working, so I don't mind too much.

Still waiting on replacement thermistor to see if that'll stop the runaway error when I try to get it up to ABS temps. I'm hoping it does; I'm off work the next week and a half and will actually be around to babysit some of the longer prints I want to do.

CH Science posted:

EDIT: A very stringy Benchy



Printed this one at 210c. Thinking I should dial that back? Will try again tomorrow

Spiderman strikes again!

Yeah, I'd try 200C, is what works for me with bargain basement eBay PLA.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
What's a good, low-effort way to reduce the sound (halfway between a groan and a honk) my spool makes as the filament is drawn in to the enclosure? It's just on what I assume is the standard spool holder that came with the Ender 3.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.

biracial bear for uncut posted:

Has anybody printed any novelty dicks?

A lady friend asked if I'd be interested in printing some for decorations for a Bachelorette party in a few months but oddly enough that isn't something that shows up in Thingiverse/Thangs/Prusa 3d model searches. :lol:

I was looking up "meme prints" a month or two ago and came across this one: NSFW swole Pikachu.

I am kinda tempted to print it and mail it to a mate of mine as a joke.

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
I was getting the thermal runaway error on my E3 Pro when I tried printing ABS, ordered a new thermistor which took ages to get here. I was pretty annoyed as I had two weeks off work and it didn't turn up until my last day off :argh: In the meantime I was futzing around with PLA without incident, using it to prototype for a hobby project I'm working on.

Was a rainy day yesterday so got the new thermistor installed. I wasn't 100% it was gonna work so I just routed it along the outside of the cable sleeve for now.

I did get one runaway error on loading the filament, but it went through two test prints of an ABS nose clip for a mask without incident.



Well, no runaway errors anyways, this print is obviously unusable garbage.

I am guessing I may need to tweak the z setting after all the moving around/flipping the printer upside down/etc I was doing - I've got this outline of a skirt but there's like... no plastic on the build plate?

Main beef is obviously all this stringing and holes - I wasn't having this issue before (printing at 240C nozzle temp). The filament is brand new (just opened), no-name. One possible issue is I'm not actually sure it's ABS as it's not labelled; I just assumed because I knew I was supposed to have an unopened roll of black ABS and this was the only one that didn't say PLA. I've currently got the clip soaking in some acetone to see if it reacts; it's been about 20 minutes and while it's a little softer it doesn't seem like the acetone has changed colour or the submerged bits have lost any of the layer detail.

Any thoughts on what I should try next?

Ethics_Gradient fucked around with this message at 00:54 on May 8, 2022

Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
Yeah, basement will also have a more stable temperature.

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Ethics_Gradient
May 5, 2015

Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right.
What should I be looking at if my Ender 3 just... doesn't start printing?

It's been pretty tempremental of late - I replaced the thermistor and the thermal runaway errors on ABS seem to have stopped, but now I think my z-offset needs resetting as the brims I get are basically outlines (which do not want to scrub off with isopropyl + paper towel) on the glass bed. I'll get to that eventually, but seem to be having other issues I think I ought to address first.

I switched back to PLA after having an ABS print just seemingly lock the nozzle in place a few mm's above the bed and fart out filament. I got one small PLA print issue-free (aside from another ghost brim), then when I went to print another copy of the same thing, the printer just... sits there, and doesn't warm either the bed or nozzle.

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