Tabletop Games Have Weird Politics: If the players bring about Jesus' death, great!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Tabletop Games Have Weird Politics: If the players bring about Jesus' death, great!

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

Wanderer posted:

One of the things I thought was interesting about how Mage was developing over the course of its second edition was that its overall metaplot was moving in a direction that made the Technocracy much less cartoon-villain.

In the original edition, it was very much magic antiheroes vs. The Man, with the Technocracy as basically every information-suppressing villain from '90s pop culture rolled into one. The introduction even has a newbie mage show up with a katana hidden under his trenchcoat. They knew what they were about.

The second edition filed some of the rough edges off of that, however, up to the point where they released a book about how to run an all-Technocracy game. They were increasingly depicted as a powerful but flawed faction, much like the mystic Traditions, where their philosophy had some obvious weaknesses but they did have a series of increasingly valid points. The 2nd edition Technocracy might be the closest thing in the old World of Darkness to a faction that is unequivocally on the side of basic humanity.

Then third edition came along and threw most of that in the gutter. It was a pretty sharp change in creative direction; now the Technocracy had just outright won, partially due to a phenomena that blocked off the spirit world from Earth, and anyone who wasn't a Technocrat was just playing out the string.

I don't disagree with comments about the general philosophical flaws of Mage--I'm trying to be objective about it, since I really like the game and have a lot of good memories attached to it--but one of the biggest problems is that philosophical incoherence was slowly being addressed in 2nd, and then 3rd blew it up in favor of doing Orwellian Cyber-Wizards.

Incidentally Technocracy Reloaded for Mage 20th Anniversary Edition was released as of July 21st. Still reading it so I don't know if the 'modern' Technocracy version matches up with the first, second, or third edition interpretation. Or if it is its own thing.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/354689/M20-Technocracy-Reloaded

Anyway to get this thread really spicy, someone do a political analysis of Kindred of the East and then try to square it with Vampire the Masquerade.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2021 00:49

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 11, 2024 08:56

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

Wanderer posted:

The Threat:Null thing is from the Void Engineers splatbook that came out in something like 2013 from Onyx Path, with a solid ten-year gap between it and any other Mage supplements from 3rd edition.

The real short version is that 3rd edition included something called the "Avatar Storm," which cuts mages on Earth off from the spirit world, and also cuts anyone who was in the spirit world at the time off from Earth. Humans without that connection can handle being in the spirit world for maybe three months tops before they start to become spirits themselves, and one of the big flaws of the Technocracy is that they don't actually believe in the concept of a "spirit world." But it believes in them.

Since the oldest and most powerful mages in the setting tend to go on retirement tours to the spirit world, various custom-built realities within the spirit world, and/or deep space, that meant most of those mages either died or became spirits. In the case of the Technocracy, that means the leadership of four out of its five major factions got stuck off Earth for long enough to get real weird.

Hence, they became Threat:Null, which is the ultimate dark expression of each of those four factions' ideals (be careful what you wish for, etc.), combined with an Orwellian drive to forcibly subsume or destroy anyone who isn't part of their deal. Worse, because the Technocracy low-key brainwashes each of its operatives, any Earth-bound Technocrat who comes into contact with any element of Threat:Null will become one of them on the spot, as the indoctrination sets them up for rapid conversion.

It's an interesting idea for an antagonist and you could get a lot of use out of them, but like I said, it's from a pretty obscure source.

Threat:Null in Technocracy: Reloaded.

So Mage 20th Anniversary Edition is essentially what I'm going to call Mage 4th edition. The 20th Anniversary Edition update to Guide to the Technocracy is the book Technocracy Reloaded, released about a week ago (there was a kickstarter for it).

Threat Null is one of the antagonists given in the metaplot chapter. They describe Threat Null as essentially what Wanderer posted, but they also include a couple of variants in case that is what you want for your campaign. The authors also say the following about the aim of Threat Null

"One theorized goal of Threat Null is not destruction, but protection taken to the extreme. Having seen the excesses of the Deep [the Deep Umbra, where the collective unconsciousness of Humanity literally comes alive], it wishes to protect humanity; it wants a single unified consensus and is willing to do anything to achieve this aim. How each Convention within Threat Null approaches this goal may vary and even appear counterproductive to another Convention, even as Conditioning compels them to cooperate with one another."

Marauder Null
"In this variant, Threat Null is effectively a massive fusion of Marauders (see Mage 20 p. 238) sharing a Technocratic Quiet.
Their joint delusion is reinforced through social conditioning performed by the highest ranking members of Threat Null. This presents an option in which Threat Null stands as a cautionary tale to any Technocrat gladly eschewing all individuality in the name of conformity to the Union. Conformity taken to excess leads to madness and a desire to subsume the universe to one will. Such is the goal of Threat Null in this scenario."

Threat Caul
"This variant plays into other potential metaplots regarding the Fallen Technocracy. In this option, a mass corruption running through high-ranking Technocrats in the Void led to the formation of Threat Null. This could have begun with the
Incarnae of Authochthonia guiding the entire realm into the Caul, or perhaps with members of Control realizing the statistical inevitability of the heat death of the universe and deciding to throw in on the side of Entropy in the war for reality. Who fell first is academic at best. The corruption has spread, the most powerful parts of the Union are now Nephandi, and they will not stop until the Tellurian has been homogenized for easy digestion by the Things That Should Not Be."

So Threat Caul has a lot of Mage speak so I'll translate it for this discussion. If the Marauders are what happens to a Mage when he loses his grip on reality and goes nuts, then a Nephandi is sort of an inverted Mage. They reject seeking Ascension (uplifting society) for the Masses (non-Mages) and would rather turn into Lovecraftian cultists by worshiping entities of pure Entropy, who want to destroy the universe in some fashion.

So the Threat Caul variant makes the higher levels of the Technocracy an essentially doomsday cult.

Control

Control is an entity that shows up in the Technocracy and sometimes talks to Technocrats. It was introduced (I think) in Guide to the Technocracy (which is Mage 2nd edition, Guide to the Technocracy was published in 1999, Mage Revised ie 3rd edition was published in 2000).

Control was both a Game Master mechanic and a part of the metaplot. As a GM mechanic, Control could be used to be the boss Technocrats reported to (or usually got a debrief from when the players hosed up). As part of the metaplot, Control is a lie. What do I mean by that? Well Technocrats are all indoctrinated to believe that their organization is a hierarchy and someone is at the top of it all, running the organization. And who could this be but the most senior and respected Technocrat? But the truth is there is no one person running the Technocratic show from above, setting Timetables for Ascension and so forth.

However since Technocrats are Mages at base their belief shapes reality. Thus Control was born out of the desires of the collective of the Technocrats to have a person (or council) running the show above them. The neat thing about Control is that as Technocrats rise in rank (magical power) high enough they will be subsumed by Control because other Technocrats believe the subsumed Technocrat is closer to the governing body.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2021 23:44

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

fool of sound posted:

This is kinda getting away from discussing the politics of the game lines

The political weirdness mines will run dry eventually.

Milo and POTUS posted:

What's with the mummies

Well I've read (and half remember) Mummy : The Resurrection, which I think is Mummy 2nd edition. It was part of the Year of the Scarab line. Anyone else want to take a crack at it?

# ¿ Jul 31, 2021 19:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Tabletop Games Have Weird Politics: If the players bring about Jesus' death, great!