Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
JMBosch
May 28, 2006

You're dead.
That's your greatest weapon.
When Hegemony was first announced, it piqued my interest. But the first thing I saw when looking into its approach to the subject matter was someone essentially asking on BGG "Where's communism?" and one of the designers answered with basically, "It's too effective so we left it out to be fair to the capitalists and bourgeoisie players. Reform is revolution." So I kind of wrote off its politics.

Varnavas Timotheou posted:

Indeed, it was a bit tricky to implement pure Marxism as its goal, the establishment of a socialist society and the transition towards communism would render the game unplayable for at least one of the players. Meaning that if, for example, the state would adapt this framework, private businesses would not exist anymore as the means of production would be state-owned. Hence, the capitalist class would not be able to participate in the game and the middle class would lose its small-businesses and it essentially would become a cooperative game between the state and the working class (which sounds fun, but would simply not make sense in our game). As our goal was to let all players stay in the game until the end, we decided not to implement this option and, alas, had to keep the capitalist framework as the underlying socio-economic system. However, we implemented a lot of de-facto socialist policies (e.g., an expanded welfare state, free health and education, the option to nationalize private businesses, extensive labor regulation and so on) and gave the working class a lot of actions such as strikes, labor movements, student protests which can be regarded as “direct action” by the left. If played right by certain players and played wrong by others, the nation could actually become borderline socialist with only little missing for its final form. Therefore, we adapted Gramsci´s “war of position” approach which would entail the creation of a counter-hegemony not through dramatic coup d’états (which in our western societies would be almost impossible given the fact that the cultural hegemony of capitalism is deeply engrained in civil society), but instead, through gradual changes which are a form of revolution in itself.

Full disclosure: I edited the expansions and solo version of the game. The designers seem like nice, well-educated guys, but personally, a politically minded, asymmetrical boardgame explicitly all about class struggle that just doesn't even account for worker revolution or communism is just a nonstarter for my tastes.

Cole's/Wehrlegig Games's approach to political and historical games is increasingly becoming my standard for assessing tabletop games on this axis.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

JMBosch
May 28, 2006

You're dead.
That's your greatest weapon.

Triskelli posted:

Though maybe how every war movie romanticizes war in some way, maybe there can’t be a game where you play colonizers that doesn’t romanticize colonialism in some way.
There's an element of this in all media and storytelling about power fantasies where the power is wielded in a negative way. To me it seems much easier to analyze in a medium like film, but it still applies 100% to any storytelling medium, including tabletop games. In crime movies, for example, it's essentially "the Goodfellas problem;" in social satire, it's "the Fight Club problem," etc. If you're trying to tell a story about people gaining power and using that power to seize agency and to control their lives/society/the world in a way that ends up harming others or destroying themselves, I think there are two main reasons that some audiences will always see it as an endorsement of that power fantasy instead of a criticism of it.

1) The way the storyteller actually tells the story makes the fantasy too exciting or enticing (in film, it's often about cool characters, slick and stylistic direction/editing, exciting and/or triumphant action scenes, etc.). Sometimes it's completely unintentional, but sometimes the inclusion of these things is what gets a project funded because producers think the target audience needs them to enjoy the story (a sort of lowered expectations that forces most stories to be less and less subtle, nuanced, or complex).

2) Most audiences have poor media studies education and low media literacy and will simply not see or actively ignore subtext or even text that detracts from whatever they find exciting or engaging about the story.

Most people seem to think the problem is almost entirely #1, and it is a big issue. But as time goes on, I think #2 is actually having a much bigger impact overall. Personal ideology and bias; the inability to grasp how storytellers inject their viewpoint, emotions, and ideals into a story; and the desire for media to be something you can "shut off your brain" to engage with (itself, in part, an outgrowth of capital's capture of the arts) all really kneecap media criticisms of power and inherently keep them from being too effective.

Part of this issue is, indeed, the fact that the colonizing activities are what most designers seem to make "the fun part" of the game, with the criticism coming as a smaller "well, actually" realization near the end that dampens the excitement. I'm assuming this is largely due to the history of tabletop games, and hence its hegemonic viewpoint, being so rooted in games about conquest and colonization. But, ya know, that's much of Western ideology, unfortunately, so it takes a designer being very insistent and studied to consciously approach a game with that subject matter from a criticism-first angle, which I think is one big reason why I like Cole Wehrle's games so much.

JMBosch
May 28, 2006

You're dead.
That's your greatest weapon.

Magnetic North posted:

This comment makes me think it might be cool to have a game where the modules controlled by the classes can change between players. So, the ownership class starts with the Factories board among other things, but the state could nationalize them and take control of them, or the working class could seize them, etc. Moving around like a company charter in an 18XX game.
I was working on a chronically unfinished and endlessly revised game almost exactly like this for a while. The "modules" were called "Power Centers": labor, political process, security forces, cultural industry, and capital. The players didn't "play as" any of them, but would play as unique characters trying to lead a movement to reshape society how they wanted. The idea was that they would sort of work like expanded versions of the company offices in John's Company. You start with some control of a few specific capabilities different power centers provide, and you do work and negotiation to try to seize control of more/get the ones you need to achieve your secret objectives. It's an interesting approach to revolutionary subject matter in a game, and I wish someone would hurry up and make my game for me so I could play it instead of wasting time failing to design it!

Panzeh posted:

I think it'd be really hard to make something like hegemony able to just, have radically different structures of how money goes around the board and still be much of a game. I kinda feel like the nod to communism is basically the Working Class having an advantage in a 'multiplayer solitaire' style of play. Your mileage may vary.
It's a serious challenge to be sure, but I think it's a unique/difficult approach mostly because so few designers have tried to tackle it, not because it's inherently undoable or unenjoyable. When every game around you does X, it can be really tough to figure out how to do Y.

Raenir Salazar posted:

There was a colonialism game I played that just put the players as the natives with the settlers being essentially "AI" controlled via drawing cards from their deck and implementing their "moves" that was kinda neat.
Spirit Island does that too, except that you're spirits of nature instead of native people, so unless the island is truly uninhabited, I guess it still sorta kinda strips agency away from whoever was already living there.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply