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surf rock posted:More on-topic, was anyone else hoping that the correct answer was to run away? I didn't ever really feel that the movie would go that direction, and I thought it telegraphed clearly from the start of that scene that it was a dream sequence, but... I dunno, I thought the lord's questioning did a pretty good job of showing that Gawain didn't have a good enough reason to go through with this. Yeah, it all just turns out to be a test in the end, but he doesn't know that. If I foolishly accept someone's offer to play Russian roulette, it might be more ~~~honorable~~~ to go through with pulling the trigger, but it's also stupid as poo poo. I'm probably projecting here; I'm in a job that I hate that treats me like poo poo, and my own "stick it through and honor your commitments!" instincts are currently at war with my brain telling me to just quit, dumbass. Apparently while making the movie, they considered making the end Gawain gets his head cut off, unambiguously, he's made his choice and now he has to face the consequences (briefly). In the finished version it's not so clear, but it's still a possible reading. I think the movie shows Gawain choosing to face the knight and lose his head, but it doesn't judge whether that's a good idea or not. The magic fox says something like "if you knew what you were taking on, you would happily run away", and he may well be correct. The whole reason that Gawain gets into the situation in the first place results from his character flaws, and the ending flows from the same source. And outside the story, it's also a trade-off: On one hand, you should stick to your promises, even if you made them unwisely. On the other hand, you shouldn't sacrifice your life for every dumb idea you come across. There's not one correct answer here (by myth logic, in real life don't stick to contracts that will kill you, also there's generally a third option). Also, am I the only one who didn't read the girdle scene as a handjob at all? I figured it was some weird dreamlike thing and more symbolic than that. Because "taking the girdle" = "having sex", semi-literally. I guess handjob makes sense too.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:23
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surf rock posted:OK, that makes sense, thank you. I can't believe this is a sentence I'm typing, but Saint Maud had my favorite handjob scene. And it definitely fits this trend.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:13
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Anyone got a good write up on the classical tale that breaks it down well?
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Aug 15, 2021 06:44
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Alan Smithee posted:Anyone got a good write up on the classical tale that breaks it down well? The wiki article explains the plot, themes and symbolism pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Gawain_and_the_Green_Knight Of course, with a famous story like this you can go infinitely deeper. The original version is apparently this old text, that seems to be what the film was based on, but was historically relatively unimportant: https://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/content/sir-gawain-and-green-knight Then there's this younger, more popular version, which has quite a different interpretation of the story: https://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/text/hahn-sir-gawain-greene-knight (the green knight here is just some dude and has no intention of harming Gawain in any case)
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Aug 15, 2021 07:23
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pidan posted:Also, am I the only one who didn't read the girdle scene as a handjob at all? I figured it was some weird dreamlike thing and more symbolic than that. Because "taking the girdle" = "having sex", semi-literally. I guess handjob makes sense too. If it’s not a handjob then he busts clean through his undergarments, pants, the sheets, the blankets and STILL has enough to
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Aug 15, 2021 13:57
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surf rock posted:OK, that makes sense, thank you. I don't have an encopledic knowledge of handy jays depicted on screen but there was one on Mad Men that was just lovers being naughty in public, it wasn't some act of humiliation. Alan Smithee posted:Anyone got a good write up on the classical tale that breaks it down well? https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001kr8 Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 14:25
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Martman posted:So the knight... he's like... green? What's all that about Beats me. Why are we handing out colors to all of these knights now? Are we just Oprah giving away cars again? Where does it end? Jokes aside, I liked this! It was weird and good, but more good than weird. The teaser from last year and the A24 production made me think it would be a little more of a straight horror film, but a slower-building dread as Gawain approaches his destiny fits with his increasing dread at meeting his demise or does he???. I would definitely watch it again, and almost feel like I need to watch it again in order to digest it all. Very cool movie and very much not for everyone. The most shocking thing in the whole film for me was that I've apparently been pronouncing "Gawain" wrong my entire life. I really thought it was pronounced "ga-WAYNE", am I the only one?
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Aug 15, 2021 23:35
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C-Euro posted:The most shocking thing in the whole film for me was that I've apparently been pronouncing "Gawain" wrong my entire life. I really thought it was pronounced "ga-WAYNE", am I the only one? I think you’re fine. Even the director was caught off guard by his Arthur’s pronunciation. “It wasn’t until day one of shooting Sean Harris. I know that he does nothing without putting a tremendous amount of thought and effort and research. I didn’t understand the way he was saying it, but I also was like, well, you know, throughout history, it’s been said many times in many different ways, and I’m not going to question about it. Let’s just go with it” From a pretty good Vanity Fair article with a bad and misleading headline.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:20
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The Green Knight is based off of medieval tales about Dark Age figures and those medieval people were obsessed with the idea of courtly love. The idea is that you want to bang a lady, and she kind of wants to bang you, but she's married and of a higher social rank than you, so you simply endlessly send her letters and write about her and do stuff for her and yearn for her, and kill heathens for her, and constantly almost touch her but only ever kiss her hand maybe. It's like institutionalized blue balls meets violence meets the search for beauty. Having her jerk you off is like ordering salmon at Chili's. It's simply not done. And it's gross and stupid and uncouth. Your penis is not supposed to be involved in the courtly love equation.
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Aug 16, 2021 06:23
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One thing I did think was kinda fun to spot was Arthur referencing how the chair at his right hand was empty, which I assume is because it's Lancelot's, and he's been sent away due to breaking chivalric bullshit and boning down with Guinevere
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Aug 16, 2021 07:02
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I thought it was for his son, didn't he mention Amr not returning or something?
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Aug 16, 2021 07:19
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I thought it was his other nephew-son, Mordred, Gawain's evil half brother. Which would explain why they need Gawain as a successor now. But maybe it's not meant to be anyone in particular, the point in the story is that Gawain has new responsibilities that he isn't ready for.
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Aug 16, 2021 08:02
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Alan Smithee posted:Anyone got a good write up on the classical tale that breaks it down well? I don't think there's much point in looking towards the original for help with this movie, unless you're truly interested in medieval lit? The reason I say that is that the poem is basically the opposite of the movie. Gawain is relatively obscure nowadays, but back when these poems were being written, he was possibly the best known of all the Arthurian knights. So the Green Knight poem is, in large part, about the interplay of Gawain's reputation as the best of all knights VS his flaws as an actual person. While he overall composes himself admirably in the tests given to him--unlike the movie Gawain--he finds his failure to live up to his own reputation humiliating in the extreme even when the Court ultimately sees it as a non-issue. I enjoyed the movie immensely, but find the poem more interesting psychologically. There's just no way to actually do the story of the poem because all of the context surrounding Gawain as a character has been lost to time, so I think the movie did a good job of splitting the difference as a sort of "Gawain origin story" while still roughly exploring the same themes.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:43
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I got a chance to see this movie a second time. I feel it was worth the second watch, because I was able to appreciate more the finer details and visuals (and especially the music) without the suspense of how it was going to turn out, but it did leave me with a few more questions and observations: 1. For the record, the first time around I was completely taken by the dream sequence. If it had been a cleaner, faster montage I might not have fallen for it, but as it was it was slow and direct enough that I genuinely felt my heart sink that they had chosen that outcome as the resolution. Then, the rush of relief when it shot back to his head still under the axe. On second viewing, I now see the connection between the skeleton in the woods scene, showing a would-be future that then rewinds when he makes a different decision. 2. During the dive into St. Winifred's pond, Gawain seems to get disoriented before the camera cuts to a dense starfield and then you hear the voice of King Arthur(?) speak out from the stars. Then a red light from above illuminates the path to the skull below. Does anyone have a good breakdown on how to interpret that? 3. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out if Arthur was saying "Gar-win", or "Gah-win" with a weird accent. May have to wait for some official captions. 4. Both times around, I found the architecture of Lord Bertilak's castle jarringly anachronistic. Camelot, if not historically accurate, at least fits a fantasy setting of the 400s with its cold roughly-hewn stone castle and buildings with thatched roofs. Lord Bertilak's mansion, however, looks more 1400s than 400s. Was there a point to the anachronism that I may have missed? 5. The music was incredible. Does anyone have any recommendations on albums/artists that might be good to look up for that style of music? Parts of it almost reminded me of the Celtic singing from one of the old Halo 3 diorama live-action commercials that I remember being fond of.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:34
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Pioneer42 posted:4. Both times around, I found the architecture of Lord Bertilak's castle jarringly anachronistic. Camelot, if not historically accurate, at least fits a fantasy setting of the 400s with its cold roughly-hewn stone castle and buildings with thatched roofs. Lord Bertilak's mansion, however, looks more 1400s than 400s. Was there a point to the anachronism that I may have missed? Given the photographic portrait the Lady makes of Gawain, I assume the mansion was purposefully anachronistic.
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Aug 16, 2021 22:15
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So, skimming through the thread I see the following recommendations, some of which may have been jokes: Valhalla Rising Excalibur First Knight King Arthur King Arthur, Guy Ritchie Sword of the Valiant The Seventh Seal Merlin Miniseries Which of these, or others, should I see if I want more: - visually beautiful - early medieval/dark age aesthetic (not the high medieval period) - mysterious and fantastical. Not magical the way D&D is magical, more the way a horror story is unnatural. Excalibur and Seventh Seal are going onto my list regardless because I've intended to get around to watching them for years. Also, I'll add one for other people: Greta and Hansel
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Aug 17, 2021 13:45
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If you are including First Knight and King Arthur, might as well throw in The 13th Warrior and Kingdom of Heaven (although that one is pushing the "early" timeframe).
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Aug 17, 2021 14:12
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It’s not exactly Arthurian but I thought the T.A. Barron* “Seven Songs of Merlin” were actually some of the best YA fiction books I’ve read and one of the only fantasy series I don’t feel like wastes your time or talks down to its audience. It’s the story of Merlin’s boyhood and essentially sets up how he becomes Arthur’s main dude or whatever. * no idea about this guy’s personal life or politics, I just remember really loving these books as a teen.
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Aug 17, 2021 14:13
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Pioneer42 posted:If you are including First Knight and King Arthur, might as well throw in The 13th Warrior and Kingdom of Heaven (although that one is pushing the "early" timeframe). Kingdom of Heaven is one of my favorite movies though not Arthurian. Be sure if you see it that you watch the Director’s Cut and not the theatrical release. 13th Warrior is fun too.
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Aug 17, 2021 14:45
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Pioneer42 posted:4. Both times around, I found the architecture of Lord Bertilak's castle jarringly anachronistic. Camelot, if not historically accurate, at least fits a fantasy setting of the 400s with its cold roughly-hewn stone castle and buildings with thatched roofs. Lord Bertilak's mansion, however, looks more 1400s than 400s. Was there a point to the anachronism that I may have missed? Anachronism is a major motif in the original poem, which itself was written hundreds of years after the definitive Arthurian literature. The big one, of course, is the celebration of Christmas in King Arthur's court. In the movie, it's not just found in the manor, but throughout. The earliest known oil portraits, for instance, date back to the 1400s, well after the time period depicted in the movie. The church bells in the beginning are another example; the bells in Arthurian times would not have had those acoustics.
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Aug 17, 2021 15:36
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I'd give the Guy Ritchie King Arthur a hard pass, same for the Clive Owen King Arthur. Guy Ritchies was just bad (in my opinion), and the Clive Owen should have been way better with the cast it had, it was just not that great.
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Aug 17, 2021 16:03
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Doesn't Green Knight's Camelot have a bunch of chimneys? I wasn't looking for them but it's always the drat chimneys.
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Aug 17, 2021 16:07
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The Kid Who Would Be King is a fun take, but tonally about as far from The Green Knight as you could get.
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Aug 17, 2021 16:10
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Jack B Nimble posted:So, skimming through the thread I see the following recommendations, some of which may have been jokes: Valhalla rising for sure. Pioneer42 posted:
Colin Stetson might be up your alley. He did the music for Hereditary and The First among others, and his non soundtrack stuff is amazing imo
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Aug 17, 2021 23:30
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surf rock posted:OK, that makes sense, thank you. Moonlight, op
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Aug 17, 2021 23:31
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https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/p68vg9/im_david_lowery_i_wrote_and_directed_the_green/quote:Was the resemblance between Gawain’s bride and the beheaded girl intentional? David Lowery posted:No! But now I realize how similar they look. We changed her hair at the last second and it wound up looking very similar to Winifred. And they're the only characters who wear white in th movie. Things you don't think about who you're in the thick of it!
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Aug 18, 2021 06:58
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Martman posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/p68vg9/im_david_lowery_i_wrote_and_directed_the_green/ Ha! Many thanks for the link! I have seen an interview where he says they had a much longer cut for the movie with a longer version of the hunting / kissing act. I hope they release that some day.
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Aug 18, 2021 07:31
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Jack B Nimble posted:So, skimming through the thread I see the following recommendations, some of which may have been jokes: A field in England
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Aug 18, 2021 22:28
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Pioneer42 posted:I got a chance to see this movie a second time. I feel it was worth the second watch, because I was able to appreciate more the finer details and visuals (and especially the music) without the suspense of how it was going to turn out, but it did leave me with a few more questions and observations: It reminded me of how everything went kind of red when Merlin cast Detect Evil and Good on the Green Knight. I don't know what that's supposed to mean, maybe people back home are watching and nudging him toward wrapping himself in a cum-soaked belt.
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Aug 19, 2021 10:21
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I've watched the movie twice, but I still am pretty confused about the opening scene where the village appears to be under attack (we see the smoke and then a burning house, while a man puts a woman onto the horse, draws his sword, and then walks toward the apparent danger.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:59
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marxismftw posted:I've watched the movie twice, but I still am pretty confused about the opening scene where the village appears to be under attack (we see the smoke and then a burning house, while a man puts a woman onto the horse, draws his sword, and then walks toward the apparent danger. I think it's just a generic "knight movie" scene that is then contrasted with Gawain's first scenes. The characters are credited as Paris and Helen from Troy, so that gives it a bit of a mythical connection. But I don't think there's any way to discern that from what we see. Since we're talking about opening scenes, what's with the pre-opening scene where Gawain sits on a throne all dignified and golden like Christos Pantokrator, and then his head bursts into flame? Is it also just to set the tone and tell us that this is a Christian film, or something else?
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Aug 19, 2021 19:07
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pidan posted:The characters are credited as Paris and Helen from Troy, so that gives it a bit of a mythical connection. This is also reference to the first few lines of the text, or at least some variations of it: When the siege and the assault had ceased at Troy, and the fortress fell in flame to firebrands and ashes, the traitor who the contrivance of treason there fashioned was tried for his treachery, the most true upon earth – it was Æneas the noble and his renowned kindred who then laid under them lands, and lords became of well-nigh all the wealth in the Western Isles. When royal Romulus to Rome his road had taken, in great pomp and pride. He peopled it first, and named it with his own name that yet now it bears; Tirius went to Tuscany and towns founded, Langaberde in Lombardy uplifted halls, and far over the French flood Felix Brutus on many a broad bank and brae Britain established full fair where strange things, strife and sadness, at whiles in the land did fare, and each other grief and gladness oft fast have followed there. (Text is from the Tolkien translation. Not sure if that one is considered a "good" translation.)
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Aug 19, 2021 19:56
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Gawain is a fuckboy.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:59
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It's one of the more common translations, but that's probably just name recognition.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:49
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marxismftw posted:I've watched the movie twice, but I still am pretty confused about the opening scene where the village appears to be under attack (we see the smoke and then a burning house, while a man puts a woman onto the horse, draws his sword, and then walks toward the apparent danger. I believe this is foreshadowing and will be circled back around to the last act of the movie where we see what happens when Gawain runs away from the Green Knight.
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Aug 21, 2021 06:27
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marxismftw posted:I've watched the movie twice, but I still am pretty confused about the opening scene where the village appears to be under attack (we see the smoke and then a burning house, while a man puts a woman onto the horse, draws his sword, and then walks toward the apparent danger. This was talked about a bit up thread. The first thing it does is give us a contrast to understand Gawain: here's all this action yet he's sleeping one off in a brothel. He's the total opposite of the noble, exciting knight we see. The other is that it gives us a bit of contrast for the story as a whole. There's this action story happening, but it's going on in the background. It's not our story, we're going to see something else.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:40
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Every shot in this movie looked beautiful. As it got closer to the end I was more and more uncertain as to how they would manage to make this work without spoiling the tone. I think they mostly pulled it off but it didn’t stick the landing as hard as I hoped it would. If anyone is looking for a story with a similar feel in parts, especially the foreboding castle, I highly recommend the book Between Two Fires.
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Aug 22, 2021 00:11
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I got major valhalla rising vibes off this, but that movie had struck a nightmare tone and held it very well, this movie doesn’t really have a consistent tone. I also felt it had some things in common with the gretel and hansel movie that came out a few years back, which I was shocked to like so dang much. That movie had more of plot to follow, but blended in its abstract horror in much more effectively.
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Aug 22, 2021 01:24
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Pioneer42 posted:I got a chance to see this movie a second time. I feel it was worth the second watch, because I was able to appreciate more the finer details and visuals (and especially the music) without the suspense of how it was going to turn out, but it did leave me with a few more questions and observations: To be fair, stone castles in 400s Britain are also anachronistic. Stone castles are something the Normans implemented in the 11-12th centuries. Although, yes Lord Bertilak's manor is even later than that timeframe, for a reason. My read was the several anachronisms starting from the beginning tie in to what others here have touched on: exploring what is mythology and legend vs reality, as well as lending to an otherworldly, mystical experience. The tale itself was written in the 14th century. Many of the anachronisms before we get to the manor are a reflection of the time in which it was written, so we get a blend of time periods--from 400s when the story takes place (a reference to the battle of badon hill) with 1300s chivalric ideals and castles, and even modern visual interpretations of classical art motifs/religious iconography (crowns derived from halos seen in classical art that have never existed in reality)--an amalgamation representative of telling stories over centuries until they become myths and legends. Then by the time you get to Bertilak's manor, it seems to be anachronistic for the setting the movie takes place in and has established, leading Gawain to the same otherworldly, mystical experience that we the viewers have been experiencing. It's definitely supposed to feel out of place for the setting. Emergency Exit fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Aug 22, 2021 |
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Aug 22, 2021 21:50
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What’s with the slain hyperboar after the Lord’s kiss? Fucker has twice the tusks and studs on its spine.
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Aug 23, 2021 06:39
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