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Brut posted:I don't know the history of the division well enough to push him further down but it seems obvious Usman surpassed him both in terms of impressive title defenses, an overall win streak and of course directly in the cage, and then of course there's GSP, so I don't think he can be 2nd. Oops, I totally forgot about Usman. Ok 3rd or 4th.
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Aug 31, 2021 16:24
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matt hughes too, piece of poo poo though he might be, he was definitely a better champ than woodley.
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Aug 31, 2021 16:41
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Fozzy The Bear posted:Woodley Wonderboy 1 was fight of the night. He was a fun fighter until he got washed and stopped throwing his hands. GSP Matt Hughes Carlos Condit Robbie Lawler hell even doped up Johny Hendricks
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Aug 31, 2021 16:48
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GSP, Usman, and Hughes all beat him on competitive metrics, Robbie beats all of them if we're including entertainment value, Serra beats him if we're including coolness and coaching legacy, and Carlos Newton beats him for historical reasons (his two title fights were loving legendary, and he had some awesome fights outside of the UFC) and also probably for coolness. So Pat "1/6/2021" Miletich, Johny Hendricks, and Tyron Woodley are the only remaining ones. And even though Miletich is a piece of garbage and his fights sucked, he has the whole first champion and coaching legacy thing going on. Hendricks had some extremely good fights and fought extremely tough competition during his short time at the top. Is it possible that Woodley is actually in the running for the worst welterweight champion? Woodley a bit of a dingus (though not an awful person like Militich or Hughes), he had some of the worst title fights in divisional history (though probably not as bad as Miletich-Burnett, which is only watchable for its weirdness), most of his opposition was lackluster, and his biggest MMA achievements outside of the UFC were getting Tekken KOed by Marquardt and getting his penis simulated-bitten by a raccoon. Losing to Jake Paul would be the most embarrassing post-champion loss if it weren't for Hendricks-Cochrane and Hughes-Train. e. also Woodley didn't win more than 3 straight fights at any point in his UFC career. CommonShore fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 17:02
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CommonShore posted:e. also Woodley didn't win more than 3 straight fights at any point in his UFC career. That is so disingenuous, he has a 7 fight run of no loses.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:21
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Lid posted:GSP Pretty sure Woodley decisively beat Lawler and Condit both
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Aug 31, 2021 17:27
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Whose fights would you rather watch? "Greatest" is not MMAth.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:33
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Fozzy The Bear posted:That is so disingenuous, he has a 7 fight run of no loses. That wasn't what he said. Since joining the UFC, Tyron Woodley has not won more than 3 fights in a row.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:38
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I don't think I've ever intentionally rewatched a Woodley fight. In contrast, I rewatch Nick Diaz fights on semi-frequent basis. I'm watching this one again right now: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19x0mc This is up next: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB85WHnG2nA In conclusion, woodley is not fun to watch.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:42
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Mr. Nice! posted:That wasn't what he said. Since joining the UFC, Tyron Woodley has not won more than 3 fights in a row. And that is a disingenuous statement.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:44
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It is a true statement. After Lawler Manhoef I'm watching Hughes Trigg II because that's a glorious fight.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:48
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Yo is there anyone here that thinks Woodley vs Thompson 1 deserved FOTN at UFC 205? Am I wrong about that being just off the back of the fight being "close", rather than actually good?
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Aug 31, 2021 17:52
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I had to look at which fights were on the card. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_205 I think I would have given it to at least 2 or 3 other fights.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:55
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Even if we read that run as "7-fight undefeated streak" which is also true (both are valid ways of describing it) a 7-fight undefeated streak or a 6-0-1 run including a title run is not impressive compared to most other streaks, especially to streaks that include a title run. I'm going to look at Woodley as a guy who overachieved and landed that big punch in a couple of fights, but in the end Woodley vs MacDonalde best describes who Woodley was as a fighter.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:59
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Brut posted:Yo is there anyone here that thinks Woodley vs Thompson 1 deserved FOTN at UFC 205? Am I wrong about that being just off the back of the fight being "close", rather than actually good? It had the best round of the night but it also had several of the worst rounds of the night.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:59
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I've seen 3 Woodley title fights in person - Lawler, and both Thompsonses. It me, the enormous doofus what's spent literally thousands of dollars for the pleasure of watching Tyron Woodley engage in mixed martial arts for nearly an hour. I wanted Lawler to win, but Tyron put a fuckin hammer on him. I'm not going to entirely discount his performance just because he did it to a guy I like more. Fair play to Twoood, he got it done. The 205 fight was ok, and Woodley dropped ol Stevie Kicks, which is more than can be said for the allegedly decorated kickboxer. 209 was bad, but hell, Thompson vs Till was bad, too. Also, I just don't like Thompson all that much, and I think he's responsible for a lot of dull fights if he can't land the counters he's looking for. He'll just skitter around and throw tepid strikes. Woodley vs Till was fine, he landed a big punch and got a nifty sub finish. Good job, dude Woodley vs Maia was bad, like every bad Demian Maia fight where he shoots for dozens of increasingly desperate takedowns from further and further out. As for not rewatching Woodley fights, why would anyone deprive themselves of that time he imploded Koscheck's skull? That poo poo ruled, extremely hard.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:11
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Fozzy The Bear posted:And that is a disingenuous statement. Is this the UFC thread? I'm pretty sure this is the UFC monthly thread, so bringing an athlete's UFC stats into the discussion exclusively is very within metrics to discuss & you're being overdramatic. At no point did they leave out "in the ufc" from the stat.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:16
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Brut posted:Yo is there anyone here that thinks Woodley vs Thompson 1 deserved FOTN at UFC 205? Am I wrong about that being just off the back of the fight being "close", rather than actually good? Nah, I am with you. I remember getting real mad about the rematch getting booked and people kept saying "But the first fight was fight of the night!" and I kept saying "Yeah, but it was boring for extremely long stretches". Also, I vaguely remember the judging for the fights wasn't actually that great, like rounds where Woodley did literally nothing and Thompson landed a couple weak shots should all be 10-9 Thompson but at the end of the day no one cared because everyone felt like Woodley should have the title if we have to give it to one of them.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:19
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CommonShore posted:Even if we read that run as "7-fight undefeated streak" which is also true (both are valid ways of describing it) a 7-fight undefeated streak or a 6-0-1 run including a title run is not impressive compared to most other streaks, especially to streaks that include a title run. i kinda think he overachieved but as his absolute peak he'd have a good chance to beat almost any fighter with the 50/50 am i power doubling you across the octagon or am i taking your head off with a lightspeed punch. once he wasn't at his physical peak anymore the way his style worked bit him in the rear end massively.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:41
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CommonShore posted:GSP, Usman, and Hughes all beat him on competitive metrics, Robbie beats all of them if we're including entertainment value, Serra beats him if we're including coolness and coaching legacy, and Carlos Newton beats him for historical reasons (his two title fights were loving legendary, and he had some awesome fights outside of the UFC) and also probably for coolness. Are you going off whole career, or just time spent as champion to determine who was the best welterweight champion? Because Newton never put together back to back UFC wins, and Serra only manged 2 wins in a row a couple of times. Also, you forgot BJ Penn's reign, which you could possibly argue as being "more important" with him essentially being a 2-weight champ. Even though as champion, Newton, Serra, Penn, and Hendricks all lost their belts on their only title defenses (I still argue that the first Hughes/Newton fight should have been a no-contest since both guys were out, Hughes just happened to wake up first, which isn't how this works).
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Aug 31, 2021 18:44
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People are always gonna hold it against Tyron that he broke Condit and murdered Robbie.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:46
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LobsterMobster posted:Are you going off whole career, or just time spent as champion to determine who was the best welterweight champion? I'm kinda looking at every criteria independently - UFC run, title run, how cool they are as a person, how cool their fights are, and fighting career as a whole. Woodly isn't the worst in any category I can think of, but he's nowhere near the best in any category either, except maybe politics.
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Aug 31, 2021 19:02
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And booty
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Aug 31, 2021 19:04
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I love Robbie. He is the fighter that got me to follow the sport fully (along with Blue Deanie ops). I don't think that he was a better champion than Tyron. He won the title off a split decision, was in danger of losing the Rory 2 fight until Rory could not take the pain any more (Robbie also pretty torn up), won a split decision versus a fairly washed Condit, and then got sparked by Tyron. Those were all entertaining fights, but they don't really scream "best of the division" to me. In retrospect, he was probably just the product of fortuitous circumstance and a weak (at the time) division. Also please go back to ATT Robbie it was the best you looked and I miss Brutal Bob
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Aug 31, 2021 19:52
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Fozzy The Bear posted:He was a fun fighter until he got washed and stopped throwing his hands. Go watch all of his strikeforce fights and come back and tell us he used to be a fun fighter. He's one of the most consistently boring fighters the sport has ever seen who got just enough knockouts to make people forget it.
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Aug 31, 2021 19:53
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nordichammer posted:I love Robbie. He is the fighter that got me to follow the sport fully (along with Blue Deanie ops). I don't think that he was a better champion than Tyron. I won't disagree with any of the evidence that you offer here, but I will propose that "Has loving awesome fights" is as good of a reason to rate a champion highly.
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Aug 31, 2021 20:02
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He is Champion of my heart along with Mark Hunt
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Aug 31, 2021 20:29
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I don't blame the ref for the call, but the sheer ferocity of Lawler in his fight against Askren was fuckin next level Mike Tyson poo poo, like Askren only got through that with the power of having such an unbelievable yet temporary chin / Robbie's punches waking him the gently caress back up out of the shadow realm. Put some respect on the Ruthless's name, come on.
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Aug 31, 2021 21:22
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Fight Night Brunson vs Till Breakdown Note that this starts at a weird time – Afternoon card! Main Card Middleweight Derek Brunson vs Darren Till Usually when we call a fighter “forgettable” it’s a derogatory shot. It means “that guy isn’t worth the effort of remembering.” In Derek Brunson’s case though, it’s more like some kind of curse or a power out of a Vampire: The Masquerade game – he defies our ability to remember him, somehow. Whenever I’m having a conversation about the middleweight rankings I’ll stop and go “ok, Cannonier, Gastelum, Whittaker… Hermansson… that Heinish guy… they let Yoel go… Shahbazyan lost...” And then I’ll open up a rankings page and there he’ll be, right in front of my face: Derek Brunson, #5 UFC Middleweight. I just entirely forget that he exists until fate puts him in front of me. That’s a shame because Brunson is a good fighter and has done some cool things. He has a wrestling base, but accurate and extremely powerful hands – he’s one of two fighters I know of to put up a streak of four first-round KOs in the UFC, and the other one is Francis Ngannou. Right now he’s on a four-fight streak against solid but not top-tier competition, including Kevin Holland and a TKO of Shahbazyan – who I remembered had lost twice without being able to remember that Derek Brunson was the one to take his zero. Poor Brunson even dyed his hair blonde to try to get people to remember him, and that just made all of us go “Wow, he looks like Melvin Guillard,” and we sit there remembering a fighter with fewer UFC wins than Derek Brunson. We even forget that Brunson had Whittaker really hurt before Whittaker completely smoked him. The forgetting doesn’t always work against Brunson, though, because I also forget that he got KOed by Israel Adesanya (lasting 2 seconds longer than Guillard did) when I’m looking at the rankings. But that’s the story of Brunson’s career. Aside from an early career decision loss to Kendall Grove and a “robbery of the year” loss to Anderson Silva, Brunson has either wrestled or KOed everyone but the championship-tier fighters who have been able to knock him out: Adesanya, Jacare, Whittaker, and Romero. Till is ah, idk. I find Till to be pretty overrated, though someone in the UFC likes him. He exploded into the UFC as a gigantic welterweight striker who missed weight in 40% of his matches, but Till still managed to book a submission loss to Tyron Woodley in a title fight. Since then he has gone 1-2 with a flashy KO loss to Masvidal, a contentious middleweight decision win over Gastelum, and a comfortable UD loss to Whittaker. Since then he has withdrawn from two bouts due to injury. Heavyweight Tom Aspinall vs Sergey Spivak Aspinall is a British heavyweight on the rise. That he’s a 3-0 heavyweight with a 100% finish rate makes him stand out – he even submitted Arlovski in February. He’s a grappler, but he mostly uses that positionally to rain death and get TKOs. Spivak is a trashy as gently caress Moldovan trashweight and I love him for it. He’s 4-2 in the UFC with a UD win over Oleinik in his last bout. This is a showcase, nearly a transparent setup for Aspinall to move into title contention. Flyweight Alex Perez vs Matt Schnell According to Tapology this bout might have been rescheduled so I’ll be brief. These are a couple more forgotten guys who are pretty good. Perez is the guy who Leg Kick TKOed Formiga and then got steamrolled in DFigs’s first title defense. Schnell has bounced between 25 and 35 and picked up some submission wins along with a few losses to guys like Rob Font and Pantoja. Welterweight Alex Morono vs David Zawada Morono is that Powder-lookin’ dude who beat Cowboy on super short notice. He’s a grappler who brawls instead of grappling. He’s also the coach of that weirdo who won Bantamweight tuf this weekend. He’s pretty much a textbook journeyman beyond that. Zawada is a German KSW vet whose only UFC win is vs the crappy Nurmagomedov. Light Heavyweight Modestas Bukauskas vs Khalil Rountree Jr Modestas is that Romanian guy who won a fight when his opponent fell through the gate. Since then he has gone 0-2 against Crute and Oleksiejczuk. Rountree (I thought he retired) is a muay thai striker whose career high point is just pasting Gokhan Saki in what was supposed to be the former’s showcase bout. He’s 8-5 (1) career. Lightweight Paddy Pimblett vs Luigi VendraminiPaddy the Baddy is in the UFC! Paddy has long been promoted (by other people, not by me, mind you – I’m just repeating this for context) as Liverpool’s Conor McGregor – he’s a Cage Warriors veteran and former lightweight champion with b-league wins over known quantities like Julian Erosa. Famously, he turned down a UFC contract earlier in his career to keep fighting in Cage Warriors where he was apparently making more money than the UFC was offering. He’s a grappler who does weird poo poo, and the British crowds seem to love him. Brazilian Vendramini is 1-2 in the UFC. He lost to Elizu Zaleski on short notice but hasn’t been memorable beyond that. I put a siren on this because this could be a future star’s debut. Prelims Flyweight Molly McCann vs Ji Yeon Kim Meatball Molly gets another chance. She seems like a cool person, but she has lost two fairly decisive decisions in a row and doesn’t have many noteworthy career victories. She’s popular in the UK though. Korean Kim (geez somehow forgettable fighters is today’s theme) is also 3-3 in the UFC, most recently losing a decision to Alexa Grasso. She has missed weight a lot, too. Bantamweight Jack Shore vs Liudvik Sholinian Undefeated Shore is a Welsh Cage Warriors champ. He’s 3-0 in the UFC, starting with two (as I recall) blow-out submission wins but then a razor thin decision vs Hunter Azure, the first proper American wrestler who he faced. Sholinian is a 9-1 Ukrainian making his debut. I don’t recognize any of his opponents but he has fought in Bellator and LFA. Featherweight Julian Erosa vs Charles JourdainWell that’s a coincidence. Erosa is a decent fighter who made his debut by submitting Sean Woodson on short notice, and then KOing Nate Landwehr in a disputed stoppage before just getting KOed in his 3rd bout. Jourdain is a French-Canadian brawler who has a rad fight with Andre Fili and a KO of Superboy. Extremely fun booking. reeg posted:Erosa made his third UFC debut against Woodson. Dude's a textbook scrappy underdog who seems to be constantly fighting for his career, usually pretty fun to watch Middleweight Dalcha Lungiambula vs Marc-Andre Barriault Sometimes I need to rely on the pictures before I remember people. Lungiambula is a 2-1 Congolese fighter with some vicious hands that he isn’t great at setting up. He beat Markus Perez in January. Barriault is a Canadian TKO product who started his UFC career 0-3 (1) with a failed drug test, which may have been due to contamination. He KOed Abu Azaitar in March but I don’t remember that. Bantamweight Jonathan Martinez vs Marcelo Rojo Martinez is a glass cannon. He somehow managed to lose to Soukhamthath and Davey Grant, but also to KO Frankie Saenz. His fights are usually fun. Rojo is a 16-7 Argentinian who I suspect got into the UFC by being willing to get KOed by Charles Jourdain on short notice. Not sure if happening? Lightweight Marc Diakase vs Rafael Alvez Diakase is a good English kickboxer but hit-and-miss with his wins. He’s a lot like Bobby Green in that respect, also in that he lost a decision to Fiziev. Alvez is a Brazilian Journeyman who came from DWCS and then lost his debut. Light Heavyweight Paul Craig vs someone other than Alexander Gustaffson Paul “The Bear Jew” Craig is not a bear and not a Jew. He is a Scottish grappler who has some very good come from behind wins. His opponent is not Alexander Gustaffson. CommonShore fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 23:17
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CommonShore posted:Welterweight Alex Morono vs David Zawada It's good to know cortxbomb got over is making fun of him and hybrid grappled his way into the elite tiers.
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Aug 31, 2021 23:51
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CommonShore posted:And booty Underappreciated part of Woodley's game.
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Sep 1, 2021 00:03
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kimbo305 posted:It's good to know cortxbomb got over is making fun of him and hybrid grappled his way into the elite tiers. I hope he's still out there, gogoplata-ing himself while sending threatening emails to Akiyama
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Sep 1, 2021 00:12
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LobsterMobster posted:I'm not going to entirely discount his performance just because he did it to a guy I like more. Fair play to Twoood, he got it done. I will. "He ruined my special night." - Jon Jones
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Sep 1, 2021 01:02
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Contender Series first fight starting in a few edit: Jumping knee KO god drat! https://streamable.com/0x9myj Digital Jedi fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 01:14
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Sick flying knee on DWTNCS
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Sep 1, 2021 01:19
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CommonShore posted:
Erosa made his third UFC debut against Woodson. Dude's a textbook scrappy underdog who seems to be constantly fighting for his career, usually pretty fun to watch
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Sep 1, 2021 01:26
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Digital Jedi posted:Contender Series first fight starting in a few Get that man a contract, drat. Apparently he trains at The Diamond's gym in Lafayette?
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Sep 1, 2021 01:33
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Wait, Liudvik is fighting on this card and not the TUF card? He was on TUF! What the hell, drat guy
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Sep 1, 2021 01:41
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Well that really sucks. 2nd eye poke from him. Guess he is prime UFC material
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Sep 1, 2021 02:24
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I have legitimately no idea what to make of Till, but I suspect this match will be telling however it comes out.
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