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A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

Edge & Christian posted:

If someone really wants to figure out the convoluted world of Marvel and DC superhero comics, it's easier and cheaper than ever to do so. The Internet exists and there are copious websites and other fora to use to detangle continuity, reading order, and other things

wow, who could say no to an appealing prospect like that

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A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

None of those other things make reference integral to understanding or caring about what is going on. It is perfectly possible, perhaps even the optimal experience, to follow the events of Game of Thrones having never read another book in your life. Disney notoriously does not rely on its target audience of five-year-olds to refer to a fan wiki to figure out why this Elsa broad's such a big deal. The closest literary equivalent calling for "copious websites and other fora to use to detangle continuity, reading order, and other things" would be Finnegan's Wake, which is almost exclusively read by a similarly small and insular group of lit undergrads, few of whom will later claim to have enjoyed the experience.

The CCA propped cape comics up for a while by eliminating any alternative, but given any alternative most new readers do not look to comic books for the exact process by which I research proper feed speeds for delrin, except in lieu of anything to improve one's life they end up with detailed knowledge of the circumstances under which Aunt May kissed Dr. Octopus in 1974

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

Clarste posted:

Reading this conversation reminds me of the Touhou manga, which makes for an interesting case study in my opinion. For the record, Touhou is a series of indie vertical-scrolling shooters that has spawned this bizarrely huge fandom over the years (think Undertale, and in fact the creator of Undertale is a huge Touhou fan). It's got tons of characters since every game introduces a brand new cast, and while it doesn't really have an overall plot per se, it has tons of interactions between characters that flavor what they think of each other, etc etc. And of course there are tons of databooks and extra stories outside the games, etc etc.

Anyway, my point is that it's a huge if slightly niche fandom, both in Japan and elsewhere. So you'd think the release of an official manga would be a huge deal, and an instant success. But it is absolutely not. The manga stories all assume a base level of familiarity with the characters and their relationship, and you end up with shocking reveals that mean absolutely nothing to anyone who hasn't been obsessively following every single Touhou work ever released. Like, when a character shows up at the end of chapter, you have some percentage of the readers going "holy poo poo, things are getting serious now!" and another, larger, fraction going "huh? who is this and why should I care?" It's just, well, the exact opposite of how you'd write a story to attract new readers.

Which sounds exactly like what this conversation seems to be about right now. Which personally I think adds a little more evidence to the idea that it's the interconnection and needing a wiki to follow what's going on that hurts superhero comics. Since even manga based on a popular franchise flops when it tries to do the same thing. Just because you can look something up, or you don't technically need to know whatever it is to follow the basic plot, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt the experience.

this basically sounds like how fanfiction works, complete with incredibly convoluted cross-media narratives. difference being if anyone tries to commercialize that poo poo it at least gets an editorial pass to make sure the story holds up as a standalone work even when scrubbed of deep Crash Bandicoot lore, instead of the publisher huffing that detailed knowledge of what their OC got up to in the ask blog is at least as important as being able to recognize significant US presidents and then wondering why their work isn't doing 50 Shades numbers.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Sep 21, 2021

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

King Baby posted:

If comic books stores are doing so bad why is there at least 7 legitimate comic only stores in my area? None of these stores have gone out of business even when an owner of 1 died and another that lost their lease just relocated. None of them even sell baseball cards! I’ve asked a few owners about their opinion and not a drat one seems the least bit concerned about the “state of comics.”

My home town has only 2 comic stores, they are across the street from each other and don’t even care about it. They both have been at those locations for over 10 years. One just got an award from the city for some reason.

Also how the hell does Newbury comics have almost 30 stores pretty much all located in New England? It’s a different model then most comic book stores and seems successful enough. I’m baffled why this store never became the next Hot Topic and exist everywhere.

behind every successful small hobby shop is a spouse who's an investment banker or some poo poo. have you done a headcount on how many mysteriously stable model train stores you have in town too?

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Nov 3, 2021

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

Because if you looked at how hobby retail operates outside of the one little niche you'd see that this isn't unusual?

There's a shop in my neighborhood that's stuck around for five years selling, like, used pipe cleaners and partially cut-out construction paper. It doesn't stay in business cause there's big money in trash, the lady who runs it is some kind of hoarder uber-hustler who's finagled free rent from the city, a volunteer staff, and most of the inventory through donations so if all she sells in a day is an already filled-out coloring book for fifty cents that's fifty cents straight into her pocket and all the free pipe cleaners she can... eat or whatever. Most of my family lives in Santa Fe, which has an entire neighborhood in the most expensive part of town dedicated to scores of art galleries run by retired millionaires that never sell anything and never have to. Without a look at their account books pointing to the continued existence of those places doesn't say much about whether showcasing the same ten bronzes for twenty years is a lucrative business model. Stick to actual sales figures.

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A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

you got it dude I was absolutely suggesting those comic stores were all operating on a nonprofit model and not that there's shitloads of commonly exercised ways to keep a small retail shop going as a passion project without turning a profit

god I might as well be posting on Reddit, absolute cretin poo poo

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