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BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015

Melth posted:

Lord Garithos (he was right though; he should never have trusted an elf!)

I'll not stand for support for this rear end in a top hat. Not only did he only achieve his rank because of his daddy's name/reputation (along with everyone else dying), he's a racist rear end in a top hat who hates EVERYTHING non-human, he just has a special hatred for Elves, because they had the GALL to be the ones the human armies were helping when some orcs broke away from the main army and torched his hometown.

He literally sends Kael's elves on multiple suicide missions simply because he doesn't like them, and then when he finds out Kael survived because he had help, he saw it as an excuse to execute every single elf present.

Even toward the end, when you finally get to control him when he teams up with Sylvanas, the only reason he goes to locate the missing Dwarves (who he berates and insults with every line he mentions them in), is because he acknowledges that he needs their help on the front lines.

And then, once he's FINALLY reclaimed his city with Sylvanas' help, the only thing he has to say to her in response is "Get the gently caress out".

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FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Yeah, but if he hadn't trusted an elf he wouldnt be dead would he?

I mean, he also wouldn't be dead if he wasn't a colossal, racist rear end in a top hat that drove off and/or tried to kill many powerful allies, but that's besides the point.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
In today's episode of mythbusters, I take aim at a silly notion I've heard from some people: that it is impossible to defeat the toughest computer-controlled opponents without exploiting the AI.

Echo Isles Insane Computer, No Exploits, No Casualties

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Meaty Ore posted:

Could you do Night Elf 3? I've always struggled with that one on Hard. I get hung up and take too long trying to break through the Orc base, never having time to finish.

I just recorded this over the weekend and I'll be releasing the video in a couple of weeks.

I also found a new secret on the level which I'd never known about before!

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015

Melth posted:

I just recorded this over the weekend and I'll be releasing the video in a couple of weeks.

I also found a new secret on the level which I'd never known about before!

Ooh! Am excited! I MIGHT know what you're talking about, but I am excited to see if I'm wrong!

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007

by sebmojo
I'm really enjoying these videos! I've played a lot of WC3, though my experience is entirely limited to replaying the campaign (on normal) every couple of years or so as well as playing all the custom maps when the game first came out so it's fun watching someone who actually knows what they're doing.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Beartaco posted:

I'm really enjoying these videos! I've played a lot of WC3, though my experience is entirely limited to replaying the campaign (on normal) every couple of years or so as well as playing all the custom maps when the game first came out so it's fun watching someone who actually knows what they're doing.

Thanks! I used to mainly play custom maps too, it was quite a lot of fun. My brother and I used to play one called Island Defense a lot (as well as some dota), and I was the top player at a fairly small one called Soulchess.

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007

by sebmojo
It was around the time the LoTR films were coming out so I was a big fan of all the variations of Gondor/Helms Deep defense maps people made. Tower Defenses were always a good time. There was one particular genre of TD which largely disappeared after WC3 custom maps, the ones where you built your own mazes with the towers. I always found that really satisfying.

How's the custom map scene for DOTA 2 these days? I always want to check them out but that would mean installing DOTA which... eh.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Beartaco posted:

It was around the time the LoTR films were coming out so I was a big fan of all the variations of Gondor/Helms Deep defense maps people made. Tower Defenses were always a good time. There was one particular genre of TD which largely disappeared after WC3 custom maps, the ones where you built your own mazes with the towers. I always found that really satisfying.

How's the custom map scene for DOTA 2 these days? I always want to check them out but that would mean installing DOTA which... eh.

I agree with you 100% about those tower maze tower defenses being by far the best kind.

I think Skibi's TD is a phenomenally good tower defense. I should show how to tackle that in a video one of these days.

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015
The one I remember is Wintermaul's. And all the myriad thousands of versions of THAT that have appeared over the years.

EggsAisle
Dec 17, 2013

I get it! You're, uh...

Melth posted:

I agree with you 100% about those tower maze tower defenses being by far the best kind.

I think Skibi's TD is a phenomenally good tower defense. I should show how to tackle that in a video one of these days.

That brings back memories, I used to play it anytime I saw it being hosted. I'm pretty sure I never beat it.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

EggsAisle posted:

That brings back memories, I used to play it anytime I saw it being hosted. I'm pretty sure I never beat it.

It's really tough, but I found a way to beat it with most races. Hard mode on the other hand is so hard that I have never seen anyone other than myself beat it at all, and I can only do it as arcane and only if I'm pretty lucky.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.
What version of war3 are you using here?

EggsAisle
Dec 17, 2013

I get it! You're, uh...

Melth posted:

It's really tough, but I found a way to beat it with most races. Hard mode on the other hand is so hard that I have never seen anyone other than myself beat it at all, and I can only do it as arcane and only if I'm pretty lucky.

Ha, I would expect nothing less. Count one more who would be super-down for a Skibi's video. Good times!

Meaty Ore
Dec 17, 2011

My God, it's full of cat pictures!

I'd also love to see a good tower defense video. The only one I've played is the bonus level from TFT.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

What version of war3 are you using here?

The classic version with the latest patch. I don't think I'll switch to reforged since I don't like the new graphics and it looks like they made the campaign easier.


Meaty Ore posted:

I'd also love to see a good tower defense video. The only one I've played is the bonus level from TFT.

I'll do Skibi's sometime then. My brother and I used to co-op it a lot, I'll see if he's into the idea of recording a run of it while I'm visiting for the holidays.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
I used to really enjoy Gem TD. Now the randomness would probably drive me up the wall.

Malah
May 18, 2015

I really miss WC3. drat shame what happened with the remaster (and studio in general), but yeah would enjoy a TD episode as well.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

anilEhilated posted:

I used to really enjoy Gem TD. Now the randomness would probably drive me up the wall.

Is there a WC3 map by that name, or do you mean the flash game? If the latter, I agree, I found it fun and intriguing at first but then the randomness began to grate on me.

I don't think I ended up going all the way through it.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
The flash game's got a Warcraft 3 conversion, with eight players racing to be the first to beat 50 or so waves.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Oct 29, 2021

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
Night Elf 3: The Awakening of Stormrage

A win for good economic management and brute force!


BlazetheInferno, did I find the secret you were thinking of or a different one?

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015
That is, in fact, the one I was thinking of. I forget how I first learned about that one. Of note, the quasi-time limit in this map of the number of trees is a different beast in Hard as compared to normal difficulty, as the Undead harvest those trees with a lot more ghouls in Hard Mode than they do on Normal. So as a result, you have a LOT less time in Hard than you do in Normal, but it's not immediately apparent. Those trees simply dwindle a lot faster than you're expecting if you're used to normal difficulty.

Comment as I listen: The actual "Four Elements" of Warcraft are Earth, Fire, Water, and Air. Air typically handles Lightning, Water handles Frost, and stuff like that.

As for the various units getting renamed in Frozen Throne, we never got an official explanation about all the various units that got their names changed or redesigns between Reign of Chaos and Frozen Throne. The most prevailing theory is sweeping changes to reduce similarities with other fantasy titles or avoid lawsuits from certain companies that might be hilariously overzealous about trying to enforce copyrights. Blizzard has, historically, been rather paranoid about that, to the point that the prevailing theory about why they stopped using the name "Grom" for Hellscream (instead insisting on using the full name "Grommash", to the point of *badly* splicing the audio in the Reforged Orc campaign to remove any instances of "Grom" being spoken aloud) is that the name "Grom" is copyrighted to a brand of motorcycle.

No, this does not make sense, but it is the best theory we've got.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

BlazetheInferno posted:

that the name "Grom" is copyrighted to a brand of motorcycle.

No, this does not make sense, but it is the best theory we've got.

Probably more relevant is Grom the Paunch, a long-standing Warhammer Fantasy goblin character.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

if games workshop can't enforce copyright on green-skinned orcs it is very difficult for me to see how they'd enforce copyright on those orcs shooting catapults

i'm pretty sure that both the catapult and the ballista's patents are expired and in the public domain tbh

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
I've always assumed the siege engine rework was to save face (or avoid publicly conceding) over the steam tank. It was made less blatant if all the factions got their siege units overhauled. Easy to copyright the new unique versions, too.

The really telling change is that Gryphon Riders originally had a voice line about how "This warhammer cost me 40k". It was quietly patched out, either in Frozen Throne or one of FT's post-release patches, and they don't say the line in-game anymore.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

yeah that makes sense, the steam tank and gyrocopter do seem rather more susceptible to that sort of thing

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
Oh what's the deal with the steam tank and gyrocopter?

I always assumed that they changed the steam tank name because it made people think (reasonably) that it would be a tank and be useful at fighting instead of being expensive trash that can only attack buildings and is mediocre at the job.


I think the Dwarf Campaign had a little joke where the dwarves remarked that they themselves had changed the name to reduce the number of angry human warlords who had bought some complaining to them that the things couldn't fight, or something like that.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Melth posted:

Oh what's the deal with the steam tank and gyrocopter?

I always assumed that they changed the steam tank name because it made people think (reasonably) that it would be a tank and be useful at fighting instead of being expensive trash that can only attack buildings and is mediocre at the job.


I think the Dwarf Campaign had a little joke where the dwarves remarked that they themselves had changed the name to reduce the number of angry human warlords who had bought some complaining to them that the things couldn't fight, or something like that.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Empire-Steam-Tank

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NO/Gyrocopter-2017

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007

by sebmojo
Are there any special scenes if the undead reach wherever it is they're trying to get to?

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Beartaco posted:

Are there any special scenes if the undead reach wherever it is they're trying to get to?

Yes actually there's a brief one where an archer says the undead have reached the barrow den where Furion is sleeping, and Tyrande says something along the lines of "We're too late, I'm sorry Furion"

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Melth posted:

Oh what's the deal with the steam tank and gyrocopter?

I always assumed that they changed the steam tank name because it made people think (reasonably) that it would be a tank and be useful at fighting instead of being expensive trash that can only attack buildings and is mediocre at the job.

At one point in WC3's development the Steam Tank could carry dwarven riflemen around like an APC, and they could fire out. I have no idea why this was cut; the unit makes so much more sense once you know about it. I assume it must have been a technological problem of some kind (but goblin zeppelins work just fine!), or maybe it was hard to balance?

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Loxbourne posted:

At one point in WC3's development the Steam Tank could carry dwarven riflemen around like an APC, and they could fire out. I have no idea why this was cut; the unit makes so much more sense once you know about it. I assume it must have been a technological problem of some kind (but goblin zeppelins work just fine!), or maybe it was hard to balance?

Oh that's interesting, I'd never known about that.

I do know that there's a hidden icon file you can use in the world editor for unloading a dwarf. Probably that would have been the icon for unloading riflemen out of the steam tank!

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015
Sidenote: *all* of the renamed Siege Units got visual redesigns. However, the Steam Tank->Siege Engine and Gyrocopter->Flying Machine may be less obvious.

The Siege Engine replaced the plow-ish front thing with a steamroller wheel. And the Flying Machine went from one large helicopter rotor-blade to two smaller ones.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Okay, that might be a copyright evasion but what the hell was the logic behind Wyvern Rider -> Wind Rider? Make it sound cooler?

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

anilEhilated posted:

Okay, that might be a copyright evasion but what the hell was the logic behind Wyvern Rider -> Wind Rider? Make it sound cooler?

With the new version they changed the chapter name "Where Wyverns Dare" to "Where Wind Riders Dare."

It's asinine.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

On one hand, the extra syllable makes things awkward. On the other, I doubt many people got the reference anyway.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

FoolyCharged posted:

On one hand, the extra syllable makes things awkward. On the other, I doubt many people got the reference anyway.

I think I've been convinced to do a run of the entire campaign, probably to start once I finish Age of Mythology in few weeks.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Melth posted:

I think I've been convinced to do a run of the entire campaign, probably to start once I finish Age of Mythology in few weeks.
Great idea!

I take it, then, that you are not planning to do the Chinese campaign?

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

anilEhilated posted:

Great idea!

I take it, then, that you are not planning to do the Chinese campaign?

Yeah, I hate the Chinese campaign. I might do the first level though. It's horribly buggy, but can still be fun.

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Carpator Diei
Feb 26, 2011

Melth posted:

I think I've been convinced to do a run of the entire campaign, probably to start once I finish Age of Mythology in few weeks.
That would be neat :)

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