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Metroid II might be my favorite game of all time. It was the first Metroid game I owned and beat, and despite being fairly linear it was at least as formative of a game for me as OG Metroid. Now, if you have a GBC flash cart or emulator I recommend the Metroid II - EJRTQ Colorization patch. The last time I played Metroid II it was with this patch on an IPS modded GBA and I had a blast. The colorization doesn't necessarily make the world easier to navigate, but it's nice either way. Also I have to mention Axiom Verge as being the most OG Metroid-rear end game since OG Metroid.
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Aug 29, 2021 04:16
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Metroidvanias that are actually way more Metroid than Vania: -Axiom Verge -Environmental Station Alpha -OUTBUDDIES DX (coop!) -XeoDrifter (really short 3DSware port) -Gato Roboto (short but cute) Any others? Assepoester fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 04:33
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I am cautiously anticipating dread. I love metroid, but found the counter based combat in samus returns to be super annoying, and dnf'd that one. Rally hoping dread has combat more like pretty much any other metroid game. (other m isn't a metroid game)
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Aug 29, 2021 04:54
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The United States posted:Metroidvanias that are actually way more Metroid than Vania: A Robot Named Fight is a roguelike, but it's just an uglier Super Metroid. If you get into it, it's super fun.
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Aug 29, 2021 06:51
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Shiroc posted:I have never been able to get into the original Metroid or Super Metroid. I didn't have a NES or SNES as a kid and the more archaic design philosophies drag on me without having any nostalgia. what's archaic about super metroid. it controls clunky & the default control scheme is awkward but i don't think it's aged that badly. metroid 1 on the other hand obviously has not aged well at all i'm very much looking forward to dread because it looks like it controls very smoothly for the first time ever in a 2D metroid.
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Aug 29, 2021 07:56
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It's a fair point about people not being able to get into Metroid and Super, even though it might seem like everyone played them as a child, a surprising amount of people never did, me included, my first Metroid game proper was Metroid Fusion closely followed by Metroid Prime 1. I've just never felt inclined to go back and play the older ones.
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Aug 29, 2021 08:01
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Yeah, I started with fusion and prime 1+ the original metroid that was was unlocked via connecting fusion to prime via gba link cable.
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Aug 29, 2021 08:26
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lih posted:what's archaic about super metroid. it controls clunky & the default control scheme is awkward but i don't think it's aged that badly. metroid 1 on the other hand obviously has not aged well at all The gently caress? Super Metroid controls the nicest of the entire series. The physics are a little bit floaty so that it's more forgiving to do all the advanced moves, and using the shoulder buttons to go into somersaults is extremely fluid. Plus you have superior air control pre-space-jump. The next best was Zero Mission, and it felt almost exactly like Super Metroid at the end when you finally unlocked all of your suit capabilities. I'd described Fusion as clunky but certainly not Super Metroid.
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Aug 29, 2021 08:38
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The only thing I might say is straight up bad design in Super is the lower Tourian save point where you can save while (unknowingly) locked in Tourian, so you can't backtrack for items after you beat the game on that save file. Another hot take: Super is story-wise a direct sequel to the first two titles but functionally and mechanically it's a remake of OG Metroid. Samus lands on Zebes, defeats Kraid and Ridley (and some other bosses), goes to Tourian to fight the metroids and mother brain, and escapes before the planet explodes (again). ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 13:14
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Super’s control issues are a thing but some people are overblowing them, they’re minor in the grand scheme of things. The game still holds up incredibly well and is still worth replaying. I think 2 is underrated (and I didn’t play it until after Prime and Fusion), though I also don’t blame people bouncing off it since it’s got issues from its limitations. 1, well, it was a good attempt. Really only interesting in a historical context at this point.
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Aug 29, 2021 13:22
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I just finished playing through Samus Returns for the first time. Didn't really care for it! I mean, in the grand scheme of things it was a Metroid game and thus I did have fun playing it which is the ultimate goal, but the world design fell real flat. It's a remake, there's only so much you can change, yadda yadda, but I don't feel like there were any actually interesting puzzles to solve or moments of "how the gently caress do I get that" for the items. Every item upgrade felt entirely like the lock->key situation where all you needed to do was get whatever power up you didn't have for it and then it just fell into your lap. The shooting felt great, melee counter system felt like "good try", I probably don't actually have anything new to say that hasn't already been said on that front. I did really like the combat design though, especially for the bosses. By the very nature of Metroid 2 the Metroid fights are gonna get repetitive, and gently caress the poo poo who decided to make some of them run away at lower health so you need to go chase them down, but each individual fight felt really well put together. The robot boss fight, Metroid Queen, and Ridley all felt great in terms of the kind of multi-stage difficult boss battles you don't really get as much anymore. There were some cool backgrounds and style throughout the game visually, even if it never looked super duper great. I remember liking AM2R a bit more when I played through that at initial release, but good pixel art goes a long way to my heart and I preferred some of the shinespark puzzles in that one I think. Samus Returns is solid, but in a 6/10, good first effort sort of way that puts it much lower on the rung of Metroid games for me than Fusion, Super, and Zero. Hoping Dread is the Mega Man 2 to this game's Mega Man 1, and I can't really see myself ever revisiting SR even if I'm glad I played through it in the end.
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Aug 29, 2021 14:44
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Mega64 posted:Super’s control issues are a thing but some people are overblowing them, they’re minor in the grand scheme of things. The game still holds up incredibly well and is still worth replaying. the only real issues with supers control scheme is the clunky nature of changing weapons, which fusion and zero mission imo did perfectly. im sure theres a mod that can give super fusions scheme
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Aug 29, 2021 14:56
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I'm not gonna say Metroid 1 is great (it isn't) but I think a lot of games back then were designed very much with the intent that you'd have the instruction book and a map or whatever other supplementary material to hand (either that you'd drawn yourself or borrowed from a friend, or supplied in a gaming mag), and a big part of the feeling that they've aged like hot milk is modern releases don't tend to come with any of that. Going through Metroid 1 fully blind is possible but it's an utterly miserable experience. Modern games (well, basically everything from & after the SNES) baked all that supplementary info into the game itself since it was now actually possible to do that, so nobody's really even thought of bringing up an external map or secrets guide as anything other than light "cheating," but the old NES stuff? Use a map. It brings Metroid 1 all the way up the dizzying heights of "tolerable"
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Aug 29, 2021 14:59
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:The gently caress? Super Metroid controls the nicest of the entire series. The physics are a little bit floaty so that it's more forgiving to do all the advanced moves, and using the shoulder buttons to go into somersaults is extremely fluid. Plus you have superior air control pre-space-jump. The next best was Zero Mission, and it felt almost exactly like Super Metroid at the end when you finally unlocked all of your suit capabilities. I figured they meant the literal default controls. X to shoot and A to jump is a travesty imo. Two decades now the first thing I change is shoot on Y and jump on B
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Aug 29, 2021 15:34
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So I think I'm gonna make some effort posts about the 2D Metroid games I marathoned through about a month ago, both to get my thoughts on the series at large and the pre-release hype for Dread in proper focus, and starting off, we have Metroid! For full disclosure, I played Metroid Planets to experience this title, so I had a lot of QoL improvements like a minimap, save slots, and a much more generous respawn feature to work with, which made for a much more pleasant experience overall. With that said, if you're going into the original there's a fair few archaic design choices like starting you off with 30 health on each new refresh, so if you're gonna play this game I would highly recommend using savestates or play it through Planets like I did. Now, for an early NES title, this game is definitely far ahead of its time for an explorative title, and I think there's still a lot of fun to be had here when you get past a lot of the old school jank like how floaty the movement is, and it can still be fun to get lost in the maze in its own right if you're up for that. The goal is simple, kill Kraid and Ridley then head back up to Brinstar and head to the final area to defeat the Metroids and Mother Brain, and everything beyond that is yours to decide where to go. Which brings us into the sliding scale of linearity in Metroid as a series, because for how much people talk up how freeform Metroid is, I do think it needs to be said that every title is linear to some degree, just that in varying amounts you can have moments where you "outsmart" the game and get to power ups or places you probably shouldn't early and the game won't stop you from doing such. Here, getting as many power ups as you can before smashing the two bosses is fun in its own right, and I ended up getting 100% item completion before ending things off. It's very easy to write this title off for all the improvements made in later titles that frankly do blow it out of the water, but I think it can be worth experiencing still. bladeworksmaster fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 16:37
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Super's default controls are, fine, to me, although I've been playing it that way since 1994. The challenge I've found is that you have to do all three of jump+shoot simultaneously, run+jump simultaneously, and occasionally run+shoot, the latter which I can only do with claw-gripping X. With a SNES controller I suppose the most sensible alternate scheme would be Y shoot, B jump, and A run but you still end up claw gripping the run+shoot scenario and that's even harder now. On a modern controller I'd probably do Y shoot, B jump, and map run to L-trigger or something. The last time I played it was a SNES Classic though so SNES controller it was. The weapon switching is also not as fluid as the GBA titles.
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Aug 29, 2021 16:48
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My personal gripe with Super's controls is there are separate "aim diagonally up" and "aim diagonally down" buttons, and unlike the gba games, you can't press down while aiming diagonally upwards to switch to the other direction, you have to switch buttons. I like mapping run to a shoulder button to avoid the problem ExcessBLarg! mentioned but then your other diagonal button is on a face button and it feels awkward to control.
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Aug 29, 2021 18:46
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If anyone wants a bit of a deeper dive into Metroid's game design, Mark Brown's GMTK has an excellent series of videos dedicated to the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUT60DKaEGc Playlist link: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc38fcMFcV_ul4D6OChdWhsNsYY3NA5B2 (first season/half is Zelda)
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Aug 29, 2021 20:48
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My first Metroid was Prime, which was pretty great up until the point where I took an elevator out of the sunken area back to my ship and on some of the early disc pressings that would cause an irrevocably save-destroying game freeze. Kinda soured me on the whole Metroid experience after that.
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Aug 29, 2021 21:07
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McSpanky posted:My first Metroid was Prime, which was pretty great up until the point where I took an elevator out of the sunken area back to my ship and on some of the early disc pressings that would cause an irrevocably save-destroying game freeze. I'll be honest, that sucks that it happened, but it's a weird grudge to hold against an entire series for the following twenty years
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Aug 29, 2021 22:40
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Raylax posted:If anyone wants a bit of a deeper dive into Metroid's game design, Mark Brown's GMTK has an excellent series of videos dedicated to the series: So it might just be me, but I do think that Mark is a little too enamored with the idea of Metroid 1's design with regards to modern game development, and is way too scathing with Zero Mission's guidance system which is actually one I like for being near entirely optional when you know what you're doing and more of a suggestion. I also don't hate guidance in of itself when the game merely tells you "Here's where you need to go, good luck." and not give you anything beyond that, so I've never been down with bashing Fusion, ZM and even Prime for how they've done it previously.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:50
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McSpanky posted:My first Metroid was Prime, which was pretty great up until the point where I took an elevator out of the sunken area back to my ship and on some of the early disc pressings that would cause an irrevocably save-destroying game freeze. This is a bummer and all but if Nintendo ever puts the Trilogy on switch you should give it another shot. They’re all worth playing.
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Aug 29, 2021 23:19
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The trilogy's also on Wii U as a downloadable Wii title if you have access to one, for a very reasonable $20/£18, with the extremely superior wiimote controls and 16:9 widescreen of Prime 3 added to the first two games.
Raylax fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 23:27
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Raylax posted:the extremely superior wiimote controls 
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Aug 30, 2021 00:32
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I am so excited for Metroid!!!!
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Aug 30, 2021 01:00
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bladeworksmaster posted:So it might just be me, but I do think that Mark is a little too enamored with the idea of Metroid 1's design with regards to modern game development, and is way too scathing with Zero Mission's guidance system which is actually one I like for being near entirely optional when you know what you're doing and more of a suggestion. I also don't hate guidance in of itself when the game merely tells you "Here's where you need to go, good luck." and not give you anything beyond that, so I've never been down with bashing Fusion, ZM and even Prime for how they've done it previously. Mark Brown is great but yes he's very biased in this regard. It comes through in the Zelda season of Boss Keys too.
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Aug 30, 2021 01:26
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But when will we get the novelization of Metroid: Other M?
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Aug 30, 2021 02:06
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Raylax posted:I'm not gonna say Metroid 1 is great (it isn't) but I think a lot of games back then were designed very much with the intent that you'd have the instruction book and a map or whatever other supplementary material to hand (either that you'd drawn yourself or borrowed from a friend, or supplied in a gaming mag), and a big part of the feeling that they've aged like hot milk is modern releases don't tend to come with any of that. Going through Metroid 1 fully blind is possible but it's an utterly miserable experience. bladeworksmaster posted:With that said, if you're going into the original there's a fair few archaic design choices like starting you off with 30 health on each new refresh, so if you're gonna play this game I would highly recommend using savestates or play it through Planets like I did. I think these are the two main things for me. The lack of a map in game can be somewhat compensated for by making your own, but there are a few areas where even a slight indication that there is a wall to shoot or bomb through would be super helpful (getting up to Varia and down into the lower half of Norfair are two examples off the top of my head). I'm really not sure how you are supposed to figure some of those things out without someone explicitly telling you, and there is no X-ray visor to lean on. The 30 health is just loving inexcusable game design, make it scale to 1/3 of your total health or something. Anything would be better than what they did. The one other main jank I would add is there are a few rooms (Mother Brain's in particular, but a few others throughout the game) where the slowdown is BRUTAL. This is pure limitations of the NES, but it is far more noticeable in a few areas than most other top tier 1st party games. All that said, I love Metroid 1. Sure, I grew up with it (with an Official Nintendo Player's Guide from 1987 at my side) - but I really think it nails the atmosphere even with the NES limitations. No one in their right mind should play it without save states in this day and age though.
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Aug 30, 2021 04:33
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Shiroc posted:Random Metroid thoughts: This is similar to me. I remember people talking a lot about Super Metroid as a kid, but we never had it. MP was my first game in the series and I loved all 3. I never played Super until it came out for virtual console on Wii. I'd really, really recommend giving it an earnest go, it is truly one of the best games ever made. I can't think of any other game that captures the spirit of the era the way Super Metroid does.
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Aug 30, 2021 05:23
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bladeworksmaster posted:So it might just be me, but I do think that Mark is a little too enamored with the idea of Metroid 1's design with regards to modern game development, and is way too scathing with Zero Mission's guidance system which is actually one I like for being near entirely optional when you know what you're doing and more of a suggestion. I also don't hate guidance in of itself when the game merely tells you "Here's where you need to go, good luck." and not give you anything beyond that, so I've never been down with bashing Fusion, ZM and even Prime for how they've done it previously. in the Prime games that guidance is unfortunately especially necessary at times because sometimes the way to progress is to backtrack to some completely unrelated previous area you probably wouldn't have thought to check, especially with the lack of fast-travel. it'd be nice if the design was improved a little bit so that say, Prime 1 doesn't kinda encourage you to go into the abandoned ship (because it's right there after getting the Ice Beam & newly explorable) before getting the Gravity Suit which is actually on the other side of the map. there are certainly good things about the non-linear approach of Metroid 1 that it'd be nice to see other games build upon but it has way too many flaws on its own to be worth playing these days. Hollow Knight & La-Mulana are examples of Metroidvanias that really do effectively provide that sort of non-linearity, without the same flaws as Metroid 1.
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Aug 30, 2021 05:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvOBnSsIKJoRaylax posted:I'm not gonna say Metroid 1 is great (it isn't) but I think a lot of games back then were designed very much with the intent that you'd have the instruction book and a map or whatever other supplementary material to hand (either that you'd drawn yourself or borrowed from a friend, or supplied in a gaming mag), and a big part of the feeling that they've aged like hot milk is modern releases don't tend to come with any of that.   So yeah, they wanted to sell your parents subscriptions to Nintendo Power bladeworksmaster posted:For full disclosure, I played Metroid Planets to experience this title, so I had a lot of QoL improvements like a minimap, save slots, and a much more generous respawn feature to work with, which made for a much more pleasant experience overall. With that said, if you're going into the original there's a fair few archaic design choices like starting you off with 30 health on each new refresh, so if you're gonna play this game I would highly recommend using savestates or play it through Planets like I did. https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1988/ https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1988/  Another fun fact: the arcade PlayChoice 10 version of Metroid featured a primitive ASCII map on the second screen: 
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 30, 2021 06:27
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I only ever went back to actually finish Metroid 1 after Zero Mission. Since Zero Mission's map is laid out pretty much identically to Metroid 1's, and I was already vaguely aware of the weird things like the fake lava or how there was a spare ice beam in case you needed it for Tourian, it ended up being surprisingly simple to get through.
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Aug 30, 2021 06:55
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I played Return of Samus on 3DS (not Samus Returns) something like six years ago, and then a couple months ago I played Super Metroid. Return of Samus was pretty fun, but Super Metroid I could feel how it defined a genre back in the day. I'm gonna play through Zero Mission and Fusion sometime soon before Dread drops. I also played Prime 1 on the Wii U and my god, that's one of the greatest games of all time. The atmosphere was perfect. 2 i really wasn't feeling and now I don't have a Wii U.
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Aug 30, 2021 07:13
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My biggest problem with revisiting Super Metroid is that I always found it slightly too hard and I don't like how the save system exists somewhat at odds with the exploration. Go too deep without a save and end up in a boss fight that you can't beat for one reason or another? Enjoy redoing all of that again and the save point still not necessarily being near the boss if you keep dying. I really liked the preboss checkpoints in Samus Returns because you were positioned right there to try again or could disengage if you needed to get more stuff first. I like exploring and bosses in Metroid games. Anything that makes me fight the trash mobs extra times is a drag. Its been a while since I played Metroid Prime so it might be similar (though maybe they put save stations near to bosses? I can't remember) but I really enjoyed how the movement worked in Prime. The double jump was magical and you get it pretty early. You need a lot more upgrades to where the movement starts feeling good to me in the 2D ones. In Samus Returns it was when I got the screw jump that it really started to feel good just moving around. In Fusion I remember having a hell of a time getting out of the Screw Jump pit because it seemed to assume you already played Super and knew how to use it. I couldn't get the timing right.
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Aug 30, 2021 07:51
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A good, succinct overview of the mainline series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVbP9rH8w48 100YrsofAttitude posted:A Robot Named Fight is a roguelike, but it's just an uglier Super Metroid. If you get into it, it's super fun. Speaking of coop, I found another one - OUTBUDDIES DX, which has local coop. And it's pretty cheap right now. https://isthereanydeal.com/game/outbuddies/info/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2MSAuNKJEQ Assepoester fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 30, 2021 08:26
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Hello, the only Metroid game I've ever played was Prime 3, and I thought it was loving great. Never had a Wii U so I never did the others with the best controller scheme ever. I pre ordered Dread. Maybe dumb but I just want to see more types of these games be made. Really excited for the music, actually. I should try super metroid. Maybe with the save states in the virtual console it can be a pretty good time.
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Aug 30, 2021 14:00
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External Organs posted:Hello, the only Metroid game I've ever played was Prime 3, and I thought it was loving great. Never had a Wii U so I never did the others with the best controller scheme ever. i dunno if/where you can get it, but Zero Mission is a great starter too.
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Aug 30, 2021 15:27
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The United States posted:Note that this is the map that the instruction manual gives you: Regarding Nintendo Power: the magazine didn't get its start until 1988. All the big 1987 NES releases including Zelda, Zelda II, Metroid, Kid Icarus, etc., were featured in the The Official Nintendo Player's Guide (which I've mentioned on here before and got a brief mention earlier in the thread). It's Metroid coverage, while succinct, is really helpful for folks started with the game. It also had a totally spoilery full map too. I don't know how much the guide cost, but it was sure worth it given how much useful content it contains.
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Aug 30, 2021 15:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmRaCJStIeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnIPv_NWKY ExcessBLarg! posted:That's not really a bad map if you want to give folks a broad-strokes suggestions on where to go without getting too spoilery. One of the harder parts of Metroid is figuring out that you have to bomb the bubble-walls to get into lower Norfair, but at least the instruction-book map indicates there's definitely something deeper to explore so you'll spend time figuring out how to get there, instead of just wondering "is this it?"
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Aug 31, 2021 02:28
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The single most underrated part of NES Metroid are the spooky monster faces some screens had.
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Aug 31, 2021 03:00
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