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Hey, thread! I wasn't watching this season. No real reason. I didn't watch BB so I didn't do the jump from one to the other and I was watching horror in October and lots of sports and blah blah blah. But I binged the whole season the last couple of days. Some quick thoughts. I can't make sense of the advantages but I'm leaning into that. whatever happens happens. Everyone's super messy and dumb and its fun. I don't even blame them. I can't follow the advantages and rules so what hope do they have on the fly under those conditions in scrambling chaos? Survivor makes people who think they're brilliant look real stupid. I love Naseer and I love those superhuman jungle players scaling a tree upside down and poo poo and just seeming mildly inconvenienced by the game. Sydney is lowkey insane. Like she's the origin story of a comic book villain. I didn't think I'd like Xander but he's kind of made the best of the situation he's in. I'm not really sure he's making the right decisions or smart moves but he's just kind of playing any tool he finds so why not? It takes a lot of nerve to give up an idol to someone else. At the very least he's making himself a clear favorite for a return. Shan's obviously the other return favorite. She's been messy but I wonder how much of her messiness is just her game and how much of it might have been created by all that Ricard mess. She said at one point that she needed Ricard as a snake to drive her to the cutthroat stuff or something but I get the sense the two of them just got too high on their little pre merge tribal machinations and now she's just playing super hard. I don't discount her chances of winning but she's gonna have to do a lot of dancing to do it. I think Danny's playing a solid game and I like him but there's no chance in hell he doesn't get picked off after his first immunity win or something. DeShaun might benefit by being the one left after he goes but he feels messier. I'm enjoying it. But I'm always the atypical viewer here as I don't really invest too much in the gameboty scheming and poo poo. It can be fun but it can be tedious and stupid too. So it going into hyperdrive from production is just a big "shrug" for me. And its making them all act stupid so that's fun. I also binged it all in a few days so probably easier to deal with dull episodes or that cliffhanger than week to week. But I'm on board now.
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Nov 16, 2021 23:34
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 17:51 |
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I think Xander probably messed up mostly because its contradictory to him giving his idol to someone last time. Presumably he did that then because he recognized a need to shake things up and strike early before the numbers set in and he has to idol his way to the end. I think that logic should hold true here too, in a situation where he truly could have got someone out and maybe caused a crack. I don't think its a slam dunk decision either way and in a vacuum I don't think anything of it. But together I'm not convinced Xander has any kind of plan. If he makes it to the end its because of the rest of the tribe's dysfunction and his immunity prowess. And that might happen but its a weird mix of passive and aggressive play that doesn't give me the sense of a player on his game. The best explanation I can come up with for Shan using her extra vote is her just wanting to burn it so it was no longer a target and a cause for stress with Ricard. I have no idea if that's true but it makes more sense to me than anything else and it does seem in line with her other actions. Deshaun and Ricard are saying she needs to have her way on everything but her actions don't actually bear them out. She could have saved Naseer if she really wanted too. All she had to do was tip hm off to play his idol. She may do a bad job of making it too obvious what she wants, but she keeps folding and the guys complaining about how stubborn she is keep being stubborn too, getting their way, and then pouting about it. So like... who exactly is the problem here? That being said I'm not sure Shan's doing the right thing acquiescing to these guys. Ricard's a snake and its been clear he's got a chip on his shoulder about Shan since that bizarre tribal where he was demanding credit for moves for the benefit of no jury. So I doubt he's gonna hesitate to betray Shan when he decides the time comes and he's gonna keep pushing his agenda and complaining when Shan pushes hers. Deshaun seems like maybe he's more bark than bite since he did cut Evie this week but he also clearly just clashes with Shan and I dunno that that's gonna change. So I'm not sure Shan's making the best call giving in to them. Then again I'm not sure she really has a choice especially with these split tribe votes. She could have saved Naseer but then she probably would have had a pissed off Ricard and three allies who didn't know what happened except that Shan got her way doing something shady. So rock and a hard place. So yeah, I'm not convinced Shan's playing as badly as Ricard and Deshaun would have us think. But I'm also not sure its a good thing for her game that the two guys poo poo talking her keep getting their way. I also think Xander's just making a mistake not trying to build some strong allies who owe him. Because even if the power alliance splits and it does buy him some time he's still gonna be a target when the dust settles and if everyone's just doing the voting clusters and changing alliances thing then he's probably toast as soon as there's not a clearly bigger threat. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 06:44
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He played it off early but that Tribal comment did sound like it was just public knowledge. I think stuff like that tends to just come out and then not really matter until someone needs an excuse to boot you. It sounds easier to lie about your life on Day 1 then it is after a few weeks of living with people all day every day. And in the end who cares? It won't really factor in until they're thinking final jury stuff. I don't know how good or bad he's playing but he's like the one person no one's seemed to throw a name around about so that's good. And he's not a non player or outside the core alliance or anything. But who knows how he'll do when he actually has to scramble? Ricard doesn't strike me as playing that well. He's very proactive and sneaky but no one seems surprised by that and he keeps pissing off and scheming against his #1 ally. He doesn't seem terribly close to anyone else. I guess he probably figures he can do the Russell thing where you take out all the threats backhanded fashion, be left with all the goats, and then boast about how you controlled the game. But Russell lost. Twice.
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Nov 24, 2021 00:10
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I think lying about your job makes sense when you hit the beach and don't want to give anyone a reason to single you out early. But its a game built on trust and lies are a weird, tempting pitfall and can come back on you in unexpected ways. Xander told a small, common lie about an advantage but it got exposed and eroded a relationship and made him an enemy. And other players like Danny just played it safe and it might have paid off for them when everyone ended up knowing everything. Those aren't "my grandma died" lies but you never know what is gonna happen or how people will react so minimizing your lies makes sense. So like it makes sense for you to lie about your job at first go but at some people when you're listening to people open up to you about their lives or making alliances or forming actual bonds you just hit a point where you gotta be "I'm sorry, I have to come clean on something..." Because its easier to forgive that first lie to strangers than the continued one to friends and allies. I didn't see the most recent season of BB but the one guy who actually pulled off the lying about your job thing before then was an undercover cop who played an especially controlled game and is listed as one of the best players ever. Conversely a ton of people lie about their jobs and then just have people catch them in small slips and figure it out. One season a casino dealer lied about her job and someone figured it out based on her hand motions. There's just too many variables tomae that stuff worth it long term. My favorite thing is the superfans who lie about being superfans and then end up knowing way too much.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:50
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drat, I knew Ricard was gonna betray Shan eventually but I didn't realize he'd do it immediately after she sells out her alliance to try and save him. That's cold. I'm not entirely sure that was a good move for Ricard or Deshaun/Danny. Its a big move obviously and Shan’s a big player and maybe you just gotta take them out when you can? But Ricard lost his #1 ally who just proved she’d put him above her other allies. Deshaun and Danny just blew up there alliance, blindsided Liana, and already lost Ricard’s trust. And I’m not even sure who gets credit for it. Ricard obviously wanted it to be his big move but Shan was mad at Deshaun and Danny and it doesn’t happen unless they go with it so is it their move? And yeah, Ricard was foolish to not put it on Xander to use his extra vote. Maybe this is better because it potentially splits Lianna from the guys but Xander’s now a huge power player and Ricard of just gave that to him. So yeah… hot take. Bad move by Ricard. Bad move by Danny and Deshaun. Great move for Xander and Erika. It opens the game up wide but I don’t think I realized how much of my interest was in Shan until she was voted out. I don’t really hate anyone but I’m not sure I like anyone else or am entertained by them. Guess we’re gonna see them scramble though. edit: Thinking more about it I really don't know what Deshawn's plan is here. One minute he's talking about working with Evvie and ditching his alliance, then he's proudly blindsidng Evvie with his aliiance, then he's blowing up his alliance. Like I get that Liana and Shan were targeting him so that changes a lot but this is just feels like a cast driven by chaos and big move itis. Like what now? I guess you still got Danny and maybe you're gambling that you can get get Heather, Erika, and Liana on board. But drat, that was a messy move you might not even get credit for. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 04:13
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I'm more sympathetic to Deshawn since like Shan said his name. Ricard is on the other end of it entirely where Shan was his #1 and trying to help him but for Deshawn I guess Danny is his #1 and Shan became an untrustworthy threat. Of course he started it by trying to blindside her on the Ricard vote but Shan/Deshawn was clearly just gonna have to happen eventually and the two knew it. I just don't think it was a very thought out move. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he's got Erika and Heather. Maybe Ricard does. Maybe they'll all show me. But as big a player as Shan was it was kind of because so many people kinda needed her for their current games. And yeah that makes Shan a huge threat but what's next? Danny I have no idea. We've seen so little of his game. But I assume he's basically in the same spot as Deshawn. He just blew up his alliance, betrayed Liana, and did what the dude he wanted out this week wanted. I'm scratching my head. But my impression is Danny's just much more easy going in the game and can be pushed to something by someone like Deshawn or Shan. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 04:49
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I just really don't get it. If you're Ricard why not just do Shan's plan and take out Deshawn? Now you've split the power alliance and kept your hands clean and kept Shan trusting you. But she's also been weakened so you're in a better position to take your shot after. She's got an idol so ok, there's always the chance you won't get a second chance. But I think its always a mistake when players start making "I don't want to sit next to you" moves like that this early. There's a lot of game left. Deshawn and Danny probably shouldn't have ever floated the idea of blindsiding Shan on a Ricard vote. I mean, she clearly proved them right on that but they also kind of gave her no choice by taking the first shot and trusted on Liana to be with them. That's clearly a bad move. And I guess after Liana tells Shan and doesn't tell them about Shan's plan to target Deshawn they decide she's already burnt so blindsiding her on a Shan vote is redundant. But it all feels like avoidable damage to your own game. One of them still has to win and maybe it will be Ricard, Deshawn, or Danny. But Survivor is about more than one move. And I think they all got caught up in insecurity about being seen as lesser players to Shan and struck too soon.
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Nov 27, 2021 00:03
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I do agree that Erika feels like a bit of a wasted strike right now with all the threats there. But like I said, if you're Ricard and your concern is Shan why not try and play her idea of getting Deshawn out? It gets out about player, splits the alliance, and weakens Shan. Of course maybe Ricard tried and Shan just outright refused and insisted on an easy vote. Its that thing where we never really know what we didn't see. But I dunno. F8 isn't early, but its still kind of early to take out your #1 or break up your final four. I guess the counter argument to that would be like Dominic and Wendell where Dom just never found the "right time". And yeah, idols and fire complicate things. Maybe I'm 100% wrong. Maybe they made the right call. It just feels a lot more perilous for everyone than it did before voting out Shan.
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Nov 27, 2021 00:33
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Yeah, but there were other ways to break up that alliance. Hell, you could argue it had already happened even if it was a cold war. If Ricard maneuvers it and wins then he gets to say he made the right move. But like... would anyone be surprised if he just gets voted out next because half the tribe already were targeting him and he just spearheaded the elimination of the one person watching his back?
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Nov 27, 2021 00:57
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Fast Luck posted:Yeah, I was shocked in the moment watching them bring Liana in on that. They didn’t need her, could’ve grabbed Erika/Heather/Xander to make 5. I guess they didn’t want to blindside their whole alliance. Still, completely unsurprising fo see someone widely described as Shan’s minion leak the move to Shan. I would have gotten scared if I was them when they did the "who's the one player getting scary?" and Liana named like half the tribe before Ricard. You're not on the same page, guys.
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Nov 28, 2021 16:37
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I haven't been impressed by Ricard but if he can make it past these next few votes I will be. It seems like such a precarious position. He was already perceived as a threat and had the numbers against him to vote him out. He only really had Shan and by extension Liana. He just voted out Shan and blindsided/betrayed Liana. Danny and Deshawn are less dangerous now since their alliance has been broken. Ricard is more dangerous that he was a week having orchestrated the biggest move in the game and cut the throat of his closest ally and the biggest player. So like maybe they'll get their shot at Xander or fall into that old trap of knocking out the black players in a row. But I dunno. Ricard seems like the #1 threat right now and he's got no one watching his back. But if he can maneuver this without just grabbing an idol then I'll be genuinely impressed.
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Nov 29, 2021 17:28
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All I know is I never want to play board games with any of you.
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Dec 3, 2021 00:15
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The race talk was great, and really a good response to the "I hate the show getting political" or "these black players are making it about race" type stuff I've seen from a lot of fans in response to this season and the last of BB. People are gonna do that dismissive "cure racism" thing but I think the resonating point was Xander and Heather admitting that they were completely clueless to the dynamics and stuff going on. And Xander put it well. He just has the privilege of not noticing. He never would have found himself in a position where he was looking around and realizing that four people like him who represent millions could do something that's never been done before and get further than anyone like them had gotten. He never would have had to wrestle the emotional conflict of doing what's best for his game or what's best for his culture. And he recognized and owned that and I think that gets to the heart of a lot of those negative responses fans have had to this stuff. They don't want to talk about it or see it because they don't have to. But the players are real people and its real life to them and they do. And I agree that I don't think Shan was being petty. I think she was wrestling with all of that the same way Deshawn and Liana were. For her it had been a day or two since she learned Deshawn was betraying her, betrayed him to Ricard, and got betrayed by Ricard. It would have been perfectly reasonable for her to assume Deshawn orchestrated it all, so from her perspective seeing him cry about it had to be weird and maybe bothersome. But they all worked through it and figured out what was going on and there was a lot there. And Shan seemed much more at peace and cool with everything by the end. She's also alone in jury at that stage and has no context or anyone talk it out with so like.. .what can you do? I'm impressed Ricard survived this week and I definitely underestimated that four's willingness to stick together. I wonder how long it will last and how much that screwy twist had to do with it. I could definitely see Ricard going next week and I'd still maybe think that goes back to him cutting off his #1 ally. But he survived this week so I'll give him credit for selling that this was a side flip and not just a resume builder. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 01:48
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The possible pagonging of all the black players in a row could get unfortunate looking. If I were a conspiratorial watcher I'd suggest that race talk was aired to soften it.
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Dec 4, 2021 01:19
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Yeah the whole "good talk, bye" aspect of that was something. Its good its a F3 so they don't have to risk the possibility of a Xander/Heather F2 with a string of POC voteouts. Survivor S41: Whoops, We Tried.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:56
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Xander rubs me wrong a tiny bit just because he kind of wears his "haha!" a little loud when things break well for him but I don't get the sense anyone really hates him. A least not here. I certainly didn't mean to imply he was targeting POC for any reason except game. And while its... you know.... typical that he's kind of failing upwards while clueless to the bigger issues weighing on others I respect that he just acknowledged and owned that. And I don't think Heather was saying she doesn't know what's happening in the world. I think both she and Xander were saying that none of this stuff was on their minds during the game and they had no idea the other players were wrestling with this stuff (and that that's on them). Which is at least honest.
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Dec 4, 2021 17:45
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I mean, it wasn't a "POC" alliance. It was four Black players saying "holy poo poo, this has never happened before and would be big for the culture. Should we?" Ricard, Erika, and Naseer aren't really part of that. Like that feels in itself like a kind of societal problem that we see it from the perspective of the white folks and everyone who isn't them. It wasn't about that.
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Dec 4, 2021 19:53
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And that was the point of that conversation and Deshawn's emotion over voting out Shan and being called a snake and Shan's disbelief of it. There's a lot of complicated poo poo going on that isn't affecting Xander or even Erika. All four felt like sticking together was important and could mean something, but all four also recognized that winning the game meant something too. And it was a conflict within them that played out and made something like Shan calling Deshawn a snake emotionally damaging, because on a strong level he clearly wanted to stick with her and felt guilty that they weren't able to make it work.
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Dec 4, 2021 20:22
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Khanstant posted:Yeah alright I'm not sure who or when we started saying POC alliance but that's really more what my pedantic issue was and it doesn't make sense to put that on them when the reason they've bonded is clear. Danny and Deshawn were allied on the dominant tribe. Liana and Shan met on one of those island advantage hikes and bonded deeply and immediately started working together (as I recall Shan told Liana that Xander had been lying about his idol and to risk her vote and get an advantage because Shan was gonna protect hers). Then immediately after the tribal merge feast the four of them made a final four deal. Ricard was sort of along for the ride because Shan was loyal to him and Naseer just seemed like an extra number. I get why the "POC alliance" and "why isn't Erika in it?" stuff started but that really wasn't what was happening. It was four black players who felt a shared responsibility to each other and to represent something bigger, even as that conflicted with their individual games and relationships.
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Dec 4, 2021 21:25
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:I think it's just a bit of the old school telephone game happening on the Internets. It's obviously the 4 black players forming a black alliance. But people don't want to call them the black alliance on the Internet and started trying to be more PC referring the alliance as a POC alliance. Then other people read that and start thinking and wondering why the other POC players are not in their alliance. I think its people kind of missing the nuance of the situation as a game thing instead of the human thing it was. It was four people immediately sharing a bond and shared sense of he possible importance of them working together and as a result feeling an extra burden to make that work even when clearly it wasn't. It wasn't them going "lets form a black alliance!" It was a lifetime of cultural and societal stuff and an opportunity that had never existed in 40 seasons of Survivor. And again, I think that's what Xander and Heather meant when they said they didn't know it was happening. Of course they knew the big societal stuff and basic dynamics. But none of what Liana and Deshawn were feeling about responsibility to each other or their culture or to represent people had occurred to them, as Xander said because he's privileged enough to not have to think about that stuff.
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Dec 4, 2021 21:41
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I'm very iffy on the claims of production pushing players. I'm sure it does happen, but I'm also sure sometimes its just a perception by an exhausted, stressed player or an excuse after the fact for why it wasn't their fault. A simple question like "Do you think X might have an idol?" or "Do you think X could blindside you?" changes entirely if the answer is "Yes.". So how to differentiate between generic production game conversation questions and purposely manipulative thumb on the scale stuff I dunno. But a player is always gonna assume the latter. Also Spencer being a self important mess of conspiracy and propaganda is about the least surprising news.
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Dec 8, 2021 17:33
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I had a pretty low opinion of Spencer before but man...quote:The more I’ve learned via meditation, psychedelics and online rabbit holes, the more I’ve realized how much I’ve yet to learn. I know too much to believe I “know” anything for sure. The more you believe you “know,” the likelier it is that you’re mind-controlled.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:48
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It feels such a mess of Jordan Peterson like wannabe intellectualism and that repackaging right wing rhetoric. The random thing that struck me was him randomly targeting rap lyrics. I have no idea why I'm still reading it.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:11
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I don't much like Ricard but I'm definitely now in "you all deserve to lose to Ricard" mode.
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Dec 10, 2021 04:52
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This season is weird because it doesn't feel like anyone's really getting themselves out of fixes so much as everyone else is just choosing to let them live. Xander's idol/advantage play stands out because it was one of those rare moments someone fought back instead of just taking the path of least resistance. And not just for Xander. Its also one of the last times someone tried to make a big move and take out a big target. So Ricard's just got all the momentum because he not only made the big move but is actually actively saving himself with immunities. Everyone else feels passive. Thats not entirely fair but its how it feels.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:00
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I think if you're young and hot the door is at least open, but Survivor has more diverse casts and a different kind of obsessed audience. So you gotta kind of make it happen. And then there's Big Brother...
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Dec 14, 2021 22:25
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Yeah I don’t think anyone really would disappoint me as a winner but no one would really excite me either. Like if Heather wins I’ll be surprised as hell but meh. No one else was blowing me away. If Ricard wins ok, I guess he did the best but I’m not gonna remember much when next season starts.
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Dec 16, 2021 00:07
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I ended up enjoying the after show more than I thought I would. Sure its a largely uneventful and drama free cast and they didn't have time to process stuff or shake/wallow in saltiness but I realized I pretty much like them all. Like Ricard came off a bit entitled and maybe Xander and Deshawn a bit too but no one seems like too big a jerk and I guess I was cool with them all just having pizza and decompressing. Its not like the reunion really does much unless there's some huge controversy anyway. But I remembered I like Naseer. I like Danny. I like most of them. They're all totally fine. Erika is a totally fine winner. Like she did stuff and played a game. Not an amazing game but she seemed proactive, aware, and in control of herself. Deshaun clearly got burned a bit by at best being an emotional mess at times and possibly a manipulator, and Xander seemed like he came off a little clueless and just kind of backing forward. Erika seemed like she won because she was the adult in the room. And that's fine. And wins like that are fun because they get people mad and mess with the narrative readers. Its not a great season and I'm not sure that was worth 3 hours of my night. But I'm not mad. It was fine.
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Dec 16, 2021 06:33
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While the show/production probably should at least consider blame on the idea they feature women and POC less than white men even when they win the game I do wonder how much of that is the sociological aspect of women and POC being expected to lay low and control themselves since if they ran around acting like Tony or Boston Rob they'd probably get voted off. Shan for example had a much bigger character, presence, and edit and it made her a target to even her allies. On the flip side Aras stands out as one of the only physical white men on the bottom half of that list and he obviously was just a soft spoken guy on a tribe of big personalties. So like I'm not sure the problem is in the edit so much as the same sociological makeup of the casts we've talked about all season. Even on this more diverse cast where players like Shan, Ricard, and Deshawn had big presences Erika still repeatedly talked about feeling small and overlooked. And it apparently helped her. tldr; while Survivor clearly does love its bros i'm not sure the takeaway should be that POC/women are discriminated in the edit rather that it so much harder for a POC/woman to win than a white man playing a big, on the radar game. Nihonniboku posted:You're right, although some Survivor diehards are pretty obsessive, and I have in the past seen data regarding the number of confessionals each Survivor got. Someone was even doing weekly updates this season in the subreddit. So the data is out there. I'm surprised Parvati was so low on this list. Me too but I guess it kind of makes sense in that the Black Widow Brigade were a collective and there were a lot of memorable characters who lost to them. There's also the factor that confessionals are only part of the show. They favor "narrator" type communicators but don't factor in Tribal performances or just general charm and wit as Parv had. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 20:12
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I’m honestly shocked someone STILL gives a poo poo what Russell says or thinks about Survivor in 2021.
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Dec 17, 2021 15:24
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Amanda was basically just a terrible public speaker who also had the bad luck of teaming up with two of the better winners/talkers of all time. Otherwise she was a pretty great player and I'd say a good social player as well. And she lasted longer her third time than Russell so hopefully that makes him mad.
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Dec 17, 2021 17:58
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Ratings are down because ratings are down for everything because have you heard about streaming? Ratings were up last season because it was an all star season in the middle of a shutdown when no one could leave the house and nothing else was on TV. See Tiger King. I mean the NBA suspended their season March 11th. Survivor's ratings went up the very next week. gently caress Russel Hantz, that narcissistic, chudy rear end in a top hat. And Sydney is the narcissistic girl who thought she was a target because everyone in the world hates her for being perfect, right? So makes sense she' clicks with Russell. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Dec 18, 2021 |
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Dec 18, 2021 04:09
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The thing is groups always got broken up like that even if it wasn't overtly stated. Like yeah, it might be a justification for people and you'll see a lot of the "the real racists" kind of commentary from some people. But you can't control that. Just keep casting better and make it not so unique for four black people to be like "woah, there's enough of us for an alliance!"
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Jan 15, 2022 14:00
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I think while the internet liked Xander and saw him as this fun gamer having a good time the tribe just seemed to see him as a nice enough guy who was backing his way to the end with a fair bit of smugness he wasn’t able to justify to the jury as earned. Erika on the other hand seemed like she had been fighting for position and moves the whole game and people noticed and felt the results spoke for her success.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:07
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 17:51 |
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Nihonniboku posted:I rewatched Survivor twice during quarantine. I was surprised to hear him say f*g a couple of times while referring to Richard. It’s there and it’s bad but it’s also a pretty real reflection of the time period. If Survivor is a social experiment than it’s struggles with homophobia, misogyny, and racism have all been pretty representative of society’s over these years.
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Mar 7, 2022 08:41
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