Survivor S41: I was f-ked from the beginning because I'm the best at everything.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Survivor S41: I was f-ked from the beginning because I'm the best at everything.

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Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Why�d they ask the players about come on in guys anyway

If they think it�s suspect just change it, don�t put that on the players.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2021 02:11

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 02:12

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Shneak posted:

at one tribal being 5-1 and this one being completely chaotic.

But still 4-1-1? Did Shantel whisper Sarah�s name to JD? Unexpected.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2021 02:57

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Shneak posted:

Ricard and Shan voted for Sarah and Genie voted for Ricard? What the gently caress?

Idol insurance I guess

# ¿ Sep 23, 2021 03:03

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

The beware idol seems hugely glitchy. If Xander has to say that thing about the butterflies more than once, that's just stupid. If someone on another beach never finds their idol and he can never vote again, that's just completely broken.

Liana said at one point, "well we're losing anyway so..." but they're losing because of Tiffany! Liana is a beast, Xander is strong, and Voce and Evvie seem solid. It seems like they'd have a good shot at racking up some wins if they got rid of her.

Anyway, really not sure what to make of that vote. Evvie saw the idol parchment herself and everyone was at the challenge to hear no one said the other phrases, plus it was a blindside scenario. If Tiffany is so intractable on making the obvious wrong vote, then she's a clear liability and should be let go. Evvie had even already burned Xander, and now she's backtracking and keeping him around?? What if the other people find parts 2 and 3 of the idol before the next TC and he's immune!! This was the safe moment to take him out if you weren't going to work with him, and if you did decide he's a good ally, then it seems like Tiffany is the vote.

The best thing I can think of is they realized Tiffany is a problem, and decided to work with Xander instead, and brought Xander in and made a new three of Evvie/Liana/Xander. Still not sure why Voce goes first, except maybe Xander didn't really like him either, or maybe Xander just relented on letting Voce go first when he sealed the new deal with Evvi and Liana.

It's interesting that if they voted out Tiffany first, then either Xander gets his votes back and Xander/Voce have a potential 3-2 vote edge, or Xander doesn't get his vote back he and Voce are down 2-1. Maybe instead of dealing with all that uncertainty they were just like, let's rip the bandaid off, you can prove you're committed right now, and we're proving we trust you by not voting you out now even though we know you could have the idol tomorrow.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2021 16:42

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Pretty sure Tiffany directly said they should switch the vote because she would go home if Xander's idol was active if they voted for Xander. It was kind of a good part of the pre tribal chat all around... Not sure if she directly mentioned Voce... but there isn't another choice in a tribe of 5.

Yeah, she was demanding Voce specifically pretty hard. This result was a surprise but not at all out of left field. It was an explicit repeated request Tiffany made to both Liana and Evvie.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2021 16:44

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

i like the vote gambling thing though because these tribes are so small. an extra vote is huge! Not having your vote sucks!!! the new currency of survivor? the vote

# ¿ Oct 4, 2021 21:28

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

btw I retract all my theorizing on Xander being brought into a new alliance with Evvie/Liana because vocce said in his exits that Evvie didn't get back to camp until a few minutes before Tribal Council. so if true, the vote was stupidly on Voce instead of Xander in large part because there was no time to talk Tiffany out of it or set up anything else.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2021 16:11

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Like, the episode made it pretty clear that Shan/Ricard/JD was a thing and that Ricard influenced Shan out of voting JD.

But why do you vote out Brad after he willingly shows you everything he has when Ricard clearly has beef with Genie? Just vote Genie. What am I missing!

# ¿ Oct 7, 2021 13:15

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Yeah I�m not too down on the season but I didn�t need to see 3 separate people finding the exact same item dropped in the middle of the camp only to go do the exact same protect/risk thing we�be gotten twice except with a tarp confusingly inserted if everyone picks protect. And man that idol phrase thing is way too goofy and weird, god even knows what happens now with Brad out.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2021 17:04

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

I watched one season of that, the one with Verner and Tom and Palessa. It had a pretty good story. I didn�t like how the jury openly scoffed at players until they changed their plans though, it seemed really unfair

# ¿ Oct 14, 2021 00:52

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

The Bloop posted:

No butterflies, did they edit that poo poo out

No re explaining the prisoners dilemma

Good ep

I think the phrase thing is only mandated the first time someone shows up at a challenge after finding it, or in response to someone else calling out their phrase

/it's funny Shan gave JD back the advantage only to have to scam him back out of it again

# ¿ Oct 14, 2021 02:10

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Popero posted:

His instincts were so close to right ("she really made me feel lovely for not sharing information, and I didn't like it!") but ended up so so wrong ("I think she really trusts me now!").

"shes normally so smart and good at this game but today shes really a paranoid mess!"

# ¿ Oct 14, 2021 04:21

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Domenick threw a challenge to take out Bradley premerge and that worked well for him. Stephen/Jeremy semi-threw to take out Monica Padilla.

Possibly less long-term successful but wasnt there throwing in China? I think the scenario where there�s just been a swap and your friend is trapped in a minority and screwed, but if you throw you can vote out a number from the other side going into merge can be pretty enticing�

In RI did they throw to take out Russell?

# ¿ Oct 19, 2021 01:12

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

The Go Fish idol steal is a pretty stupid concept imo

# ¿ Oct 21, 2021 01:34

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Yeah that�s good idea because they know who has it in every tribe from the dumb code words. But while people in this game are sharing that kind of info it�s already such the objectively �right� move to tell no one and this advantage will just make sure nobody ever does.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2021 01:41

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Haha this Shan-Ricard convo is gold

# ¿ Oct 21, 2021 01:43

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

She�s being paranoid from a position of complete power and Ricard will just give it back in the morning. But a great scene and one that makes me worry more about Shan long-term

Edit: lol and Ricard saying Shan is the one that closes his ideas and it�s all his strategy. What a baby

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Oct 21, 2021

# ¿ Oct 21, 2021 01:47

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

mancalamania posted:

Looking forward to Survivor 45 when Player A find a Knowledge-is-Power advantage, uses it, plants the now powerless scroll for Player B to find who thinks it's real, then uses their (powerless) one question on Player C who lies about having the idol but B thinks it has to be the truth because they don't know the magic spell is used up or whatever.

Maybe in Survivor 47 the same thing happens but C lies and says yes and gives B a fake idol.

(I'm not actually looking forward to any of that by the way.)

Anyway, besides the awful new super nullifier advantage I thought that episode was fun. Even if the boot circled back to the predictable choice, it was a pretty wild road to get there. Let's not forget: the episode opened with Genie finding an idol that would have saved her had she opened it!

Someone on Reddit pointed out earlier this week that the dynamics of that vote could have been a genuine prisoner's dilemma if Shan/Ricard suspected that Genie was playing her Shot in the Dark. Essentially, it would have been a real prisoner's dilemma: if Genie plays the Shot in the Dark and Shan votes Genie, then Ricard benefits by voting Shan (if Genie is not immune it's a 1-1 tie and they vote Genie on the re-vote; if Genie is immune then Shan goes out 1-0). Similarly, if Shan thinks Ricard is voting for Genie then Shan would benefit by voting for Ricard. But if they both vote each other than Genie is safe (and, even better, if Genie somehow figures all of this out she doesn't need to waste the Shot in the Dark). It's a shame Richard/Shan are so good at blindsiding people that it never really got to that point!

Yeah but with the shot in the dark being only a 1/6 chance it doesn�t seem worth it to ever do that type of thing, does it? 5/6 chance you just burned a key relationship for nothing.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2021 17:25

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Shan does seem to be one of the best players of all time at winning people�s trust, regardless of what happens to her from here. She was Sara�s #1, Brad�s #1, JD�s #1, and now Genie�s new #1 post-Brad to the extent Genie didn�t play the shot in the dark. Plus Ricard�s #1! Hell, she�s probably Liana�s #1 already too.

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 21, 2021

# ¿ Oct 21, 2021 21:13

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

If you have the numbers to split for an idol, in most cases you should already be doing that because of idols. And if for whatever reason you weren�t gonna split then I don�t think the 1/6 chance should change your calculations.

Also even if that chance hits, that player still doesn�t get to vote. It�s sort of stupid imo. It has not been used yet.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2021 21:51

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

I wonder if they could be tribeless next ep and just draw for teams at the challenge. Just trying to think of what could be a new not quite merge thing that hasn�t been done before.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2021 16:11

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Scene 1: Liana crying that she let an opportunity go by when she didn�t blindside Xander with an idol in his pocket
Scene 2: Liana gets an idol steal advantage
Scene 3: . . . hmm

Another observation: Ricard talking at tribal about not �getting credit� for his and Shan�s moves in a tribe that in 5 minutes will just be him and Shan. Who is this for Ricard? Not very smart

# ¿ Oct 25, 2021 21:20

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

But he was voting Genie! That meant either he or Genie was going home, so why say anything for her benefit? Instead it was just another way of announcing �hey Shan I�ve recognized I need to vote you out later on�

# ¿ Oct 25, 2021 22:00

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

drat Shan and Ricard are messy as hell.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2021 01:06

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Like this is some basic poo poo. Shan should�ve said,

Hey, you know, I�m ready to receive that advantage back whenever, it�s fine if you�re more comfortable doing it after Tribal.

And Ricard, after TC, should�ve said, hey Shan here�s the advantage back, hope you understand my holding it before, I do totally trust you but it was such a last minute ask and you know with the whole JD thing I just didn�t have time to process it, but I trust you completely, here you go.

Instead, after seeing what really happened, I don�t see how they can work together again and I feel like in hindsight Shan should�ve kept Genie.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2021 01:34

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Whos ready for Xander to become one of the most screwed players of all time??

# ¿ Oct 28, 2021 01:35

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

The Bloop posted:

Shan what no lmao

I�d be pissed wtf

Shneak posted:

This is so convoluted for absolutely no reason.

If they would�ve just explained it as �you�ve all made the merge but only the losing challenge team can be voted for� it would�ve been simple but they insist on acting like there hasn�t been a merge yet to make it seem like a more epic twist

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 28, 2021

# ¿ Oct 28, 2021 01:39

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Btw this should be a 2 hour episode but I don�t think it is? Jeff called it a two parter. So are we gonna get the first ever Survivor ep with no vote?

# ¿ Oct 28, 2021 01:46

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Boxman posted:

The specifics of this (the fact that most of her allies are on the winning side are safe) make it sorta a decision, but this seems like an obvious choice regardless.

Is she safe either way? Because if so� hardly a foregone conclusion.

Anyway though this sucks, please never do an ep without a TC again and why was this not a 2 hour ep, i bet it was planned as one and CBS hosed it up by wanting to promote Tough as Nails at 9

# ¿ Oct 28, 2021 02:00

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

buffalo all day posted:

It would be fun until the 5 ep in a row pagonging that basically every innovation since has tried to eliminate.

Pagonging, imo, is mostly obsolete these days. They cast more game savvy players now, and everyone in general is more game aware these days, so not too many people are going to be content to sit still in one alliance if they might be on the bottom. Therefore I think a back to basics season would be great and we'd have way more time to sit with the players and watch them and the game play. I'd keep a few immunity idols in the game though, those are cool as long as there's not a new one every episode.

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Oct 31, 2021

# ¿ Oct 31, 2021 18:26

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

TheCenturion posted:

You know, based on her official contestant bio, I thought she would be absolutely insufferable. But unlike lots of other players, I haven�t seen her state that she�s basing her gameplay on racial or gender lines.

She actually has said that since men get the credit at FTC, she wanted a women�s alliance. Part of why Voce/Xander were always the ones in jeopardy instead of Tiffany early on. She�s not wrong but I think you�re better off working with the best players for you in the here and now, and worrying about that kind of thing later. That was born out with Xander sticking by her with his idol, which also shows why voting out a very loyal number as punishment for having an item isn�t smart either. I do like Evvie and was glad to see her survive despite the reckless idol non-play.

Brass posted:

Also, can anyone please explain Liana's thought process on this?

Everyone knew Xander had an idol. Everyone also knew Liana had the Steal because XANDER told her own tribe mates, who reported it back to Liana.... so Liana knew that Xander knew about her Steal.
Liana and Xander are looking at each other knowing full well what the other is packing, but Liana is still playing it like nothing is wrong and she isn't going to blindside Xander, saying to him and Evie "we must protect her... what will you be doing with the Idol, Xander?" and he's very obviously like "Ohh don't worry, I've got it RIGHT HERE and I'll definitely have it with me at tribal council before I play it for Eevie, which I will 100% do tonight just in case someone votes for her."

Yeah, I feel like that was a lot of really bad play by Liana. She was extremely obviously flipped over to Shan, and then extremely obviously fishing about where the idol would be at TC. Her alliance should�ve been fully prepared for that advantage (which both Liana and Shan are responsible for revealing) to misfire with a backup play ready to go in advance. And that�s if they were going to insist on playing it in that direction at all. They should have used it on Naseer but I guess Danny and Deshaun liked him too much for that� but they�re already part of the big tribe going into this, and did anyone notice who he was huddling up with at first? Haha

This episode was very fun. And that was all possible because other players learned about Liana�s thing, otherwise it would�ve sucked. Instead it became like idol roulette x2 with a very successful bluff. Sydney was amusing but she only ever had exactly the one speed of �oh well whatever, I�m great.� Like that was fun but it seemed to be literally all she ever said.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 17:43

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

also this was like the 4th episode where the editors passive aggressively subtitled a player saying "guys." In this case it was in the original Yase tribe meeting where they literally only subtitled that one sentence.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 17:45

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Lmao Danny rules

IcePhoenix posted:

Liana thought she was still in with them and that they trusted her.

Yeah she did, like they don�t have eyes to see her off talking with Shan all the time or brains to interpret her asking �okay but will Xander actually have the idol on him?� Her thinking they could be so oblivious when they didn�t have a single doubt where her head was at is part of her brutal play. She even told Tiffany she could steal Xander�s idol! And then It�s public knowledge that Tiffany told Xander about the power. Oh well, all that happening was cool because it led to that stupid power being burned, which was good for TV and the game.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 21:06

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

ApplesandOranges posted:

Wow.

Seems kind of unnecessary from Shan lol, it�s just one picture and those are also the 4 people on the bottom watching their fates be determined. And the fact that it�s all white people on the bottom is in large part Shan�s own doing!

Spokes posted:

Boomer opinion alert:

i think whispering at TC is complete bullshit and the point is you�re supposed to have your plan and backups configured before you get there and if you have to figure poo poo out publicly or talk in code or something that should be on you

Agreed. Didn�t mind it when it was new much, apart from not knowing what they were saying half the time, but yeah, it does allow the majority to regroup anytime the minority pulls a fast one on them pre-vote. They should at least have to awkwardly do that in public. I doubt production stops it though because it visually hammers home to the viewing audience how live the tribal is. And it doesn�t ruin the episode for me or anything, this was still a lot of fun. But yeah I�d like to see them force them to stay in their seats.

Fallen One posted:

Xander was in the immune group after Erika broke the hourglass.

I absolutely could not keep track of all the immune people. I guess they were all wearing merge buffs? But I didn�t notice.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 14:40

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

I don�t think Shan can know what the idol should look like. The show has a history now of often making all the idols look different and sometimes like cheap trinkets.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 18:30

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Raxivace posted:

This whole conversation really makes me wonder about Shan as a player. Like if she gets to face the jury at the end of the game, are we going to get the Shan that alienates some people, or the Shan that's great at smooth talking people into giving them advantages (Or in this case the million dollars)?

She reminds me the most of Sarah Lacina in Game Changers who had everyone thinking they had a deep personal connection with her before she cut them. It risks really alienating some people but Sarah did win so Shan can probably win too if she makes it to FTC, but it's risky. We also don't know if Shan can operate that same way in a big tribe quite as well as she did in a small one. But she certainly would have a decent shot at FTC.

Thing is, everyone could tell Liana was hanging around Shan all the time come merge so I do wonder also how long that Shan/Liana/Deshaun/Danny inner alliance can stay hidden. I think it's possible we see other players detect it and bail to the other side, like Ricard or Erica or Naseer.

IcePhoenix posted:

Xander and Tiff were both immune, Deshawn and Danny were together in the PoC alliance, and they knew Naseer also had an idol. There was literally no other option for them.

They should have done the split the other way IMO to force the idol to be played on Evie for her to stay in the game, but maybe they were afraid of double votes.

There was a super clean other option which was taking Naseer's idol and voting Naseer. Xander/Tiff/Evvie, as a strong threesome, had the ability to pass Xander's idol around and force Liana to take a guess with her power (and everyone knew that they knew about her advantage), but Naseer on the other hand was a sitting duck.

aidoru posted:

I was gonna say you're wrong but I forgot Syd wasted her vote. She was pissed when leaving that she shouldn't played done shot in the dark (anyone could have said that) but actually she kind of did if Deshawn hadn't played his double vote. It ended up being 3-4-5, that would be 3-4-4 with Deshawn not playing double, and 4-4-4 if Syd hadn't done shot in the dark.

Basically they could have gotten Evvie out tonight but I'm glad they hosed that up. I want more Evvie.

Since they knew about Xander's extra vote, in a way they needed to put 5 on someone since Xander's side could in theory muster 5 votes with his extra vote. Once they put 5 votes somewhere though, then they only have 4 votes left on their vote split (unless Shan was willing to use her extra vote which she wasn't). 4 isn't bad since it can tie things if Xander doesn't play his extra vote, but in case Xander did empty his entire bag and his side had 5 votes, it was best for Dehshaun's side to dodge the idol wherever they put their own 5 votes, in which case Sydney was the safer vote than Evvie. In the end I think Deshaun and company did a pretty good job on that split.

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Nov 6, 2021

# ¿ Nov 6, 2021 02:47

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Idk, maybe Shan wins and it's given her the freedom to speak her mind. She's definitely an all-timer in terms of relationship building, and the edit is really in her corner.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2021 23:04

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

I don�t mind the hour glass as far as what it actually did. I do get the people who are upset that it went down like

Jeff: the team that wins this challenge is immune
*team wins challenge*
*team are specifically not immune, and never were gonna be*

Like Danny said, is that a twist or just a lie

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 01:06

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

survivor 41 drop the 4 keep the 1 because that was a s1 rear end vote

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 20:15

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 02:12

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

whoscookinbacon posted:

That Heather going rogue/mini-live tribal was baffling, tbh. Esp since Heather ended up voting up for Tiff anyway...

We don't even know for sure what the original plan was! We saw Deshawn wanting to switch onto Naseer and Shan not. My best guess is that the plan going in was to split between Xander and Tiff. Then, I think Heather potentially did try to save Tiffany and blindside the split by gathering a few people and hitting Naseer. That plan got outed publicly, clearly, and with Shan trying to direct the vote back to Heather, my presumption is that she and Tiff both dumped it and voted each other to attempt self-preservation. Meanwhile, unseen to us, most numbers regrouped back onto the original plan. Maybe????

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 20:17

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