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PurpleXVI posted:So the big question is, do people want to see an LP of Betrayal in Antara or are we skipping straight to Return to Krondor? I vote for Betrayal in Antara. It graced the cover of the first issue of InterAction I received in the mail and I've been curious about it ever since. I've tried playing it in DOSBox via Windows 3.1 but the game somehow looks worse than Betrayal at Krondor and it never grabbed me. I'd love to see a playthrough of it though. Thanks to this LP, I just started my own playthrough of Betrayal at Krondor, so thanks for that! Hopefully the 16th time is a charm...
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Dec 14, 2021 14:56
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Voting Antara.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:35
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Voting Return to Krondor first - you should finish one series before picking up a new one.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:37
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So a count of 6 for Antara and 2 for Return so far. I'll leave the voting up for a couple more days before I make a final verdict, though note that I will be doing Return to Krondor even if I do Betrayal in Antara, just afterwards.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:42
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Black Robe posted:Voting Return to Krondor first - you should finish one series before picking up a new one. But which series should he finish first "Krondor" or "Betrayal"‽ I vote for Antarra.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:42
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Let's take a side trip to the non-canon zone of Antara! Also poor Gorath, you deserved better than to die trapped inside a Blingee gif.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:49
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Antara. I remember trying the demo, but thought it was a sequel so kept making attempts at BaK first, which I had gotten for free from some demo disk.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:55
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Return to Krondor is actually a worse game than BaA, I think. Like BaA is boring and it can't quite pull off what it's trying to do, and it has the issue of trying to introduce its setting while being 'distinct' from Midkeimia, but Return to Kronder is a mechanical and narrative pileup. I remember being very annoyed by it as a young Night, as a huge fan of the original.
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Dec 14, 2021 17:36
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I'd love to get a look at Antara first. I've played RtK extensively, though not for a long time now, and some stuff is seared into my brain still.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:12
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Night10194 posted:Return to Krondor is actually a worse game than BaA, I think. Return absolutely has some issues, but it's generally better at having a clear "voice" than Betrayal, if that makes sense. Like, due to some dialogues being possible for up to three different party members(Locklear in chapter 1, James in chapter 2 and 3, Gorath/Owyn in chapter 6), some dialogues either come in for characters where they feel confused or out of character, or they're in character for no one. Return also has more than like... two points in the game where you get to choose how to handle a situation. Not in a way that necessarily makes a huge difference, but it makes your presence as a player feel a bit more relevant. The game balance is also slightly less screwed, though I do seem to recall finding a few spells that completely broke the game when I played it. So, eh, consider it a big handwaggle from me on which is the better game.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:41
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Release dates is the way to go, so Betrayal in Antara. I tried Return to Krondor in the early 2000, but it didn't stick.
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Dec 14, 2021 19:00
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From what I recall, if you kill Makala and run away from Dreads, you can loot a third Staff of Macros from his body.
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Dec 14, 2021 19:53
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PurpleXVI posted:But it still feels like Feist portrays most of Kelewan's slaveholders as "alright," rather than abusive pricks, and the Tsurani as a whole as "alright" except for a few bigger assholes in charge. In general Feist very much seems to try and portray the whole Empire vs Kingdom conflict as "it's just a few dickheads jockeying for political power, the Tsurani are actually good people There's a lot to unpack in the Empire trilogy but the main arc consisting of Mara rejecting traditions wasting good people and eventually realizing that means rejecting the concept of slavery entirely kinda speaks against that interpretation, no? Like if there's one sentence to describe Empire it's Mara rejecting a profoundly hosed up culture and working to change it - first out of desperation but then eventually out of revulsion over how broken it is. are there problems galore in the details from start to finish, absolutely and completely yes. The entire plotline with Kevin especially, about as much of an insert character for the concept of Kingdom Nobility as Wesley Crusher was for Gene Roddenberry on TNG. At least the depiction of a non-Kingdom culture wasn't quite as hosed up as in Prince of the Blood? Psion fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 20:48
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" despite the fact that they are INSANELY warlike, keep slaves, use slaves and prisoners for lethal bloodsports for their own entertainment, etc.
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:From what I recall, if you kill Makala and run away from Dreads, you can loot a third Staff of Macros from his body. according to the handy BAK Help Web, he has a Staff of Macros with Steelfire and Dragon Plate Armor with flame root oil (so frost immunity) applied. So yeah, he's apparently enough of a magician to break the sword-only rule for Naphtha. Gameplay supporting characterization I guess 
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Dec 14, 2021 20:52
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Psion posted:There's a lot to unpack in the Empire trilogy but the main arc consisting of Mara rejecting traditions wasting good people and eventually realizing that means rejecting the concept of slavery entirely kinda speaks against that interpretation, no? Like if there's one sentence to describe Empire it's Mara rejecting a profoundly hosed up culture and working to change it - first out of desperation but then eventually out of revulsion over how broken it is. I'll be honest and say I haven't read those books, so if they change the perspective, I'll acknowledge that I might be wrong.
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Dec 14, 2021 21:04
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That was one of the better examples of "the villain kinda has a valid point but batshit methods". I played through a bit of RtK, but never managed to get the steam version of Antara to work properly, so my biggest impression is the immensely stupid name they came up with for the generic evil race. That said, Antara, I guess. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Dec 15, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 21:26
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Well poo poo, I hope someone has all the cutscenes for Antara up on YouTube. I can either force-set the resolution to something tiny which shows up fine on my screen, but records as about the size of a postage stamp OR I can let the resolution remain un-krangled and have it crash during every cutscene, thus leaving them unrecordable. OBS of course refuses to record it on anything other than a display capture. loving Windows 3.1 era, DOS games are easier to deal with than this hell.
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Dec 14, 2021 21:58
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Thanks for the LP! That ending was very ... strange? Determined to kill Gorath? Lots of plot suddenly from nowhere? I'm also voting for Betrayal in Antara. And there seems to be at least one complete LP on Youtube of that.
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Dec 14, 2021 22:40
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Gorath deserved better, it's true
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Dec 14, 2021 23:26
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His wig game was too weak, he never had a chance.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:44
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Weak wig game, strong facial hair game. Which sadly wasn't enough.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:45
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His survival would have some notable implications for the world when stuff set after Betrayal had already been written, alas.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:11
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Like what? He could easily be shoved off to elvandar and never mentioned again, a la owyn and stardock
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Dec 15, 2021 00:54
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I did find humour in Pug offering to let Owyn study at Stardock like some kind of fledgling mage after Owyn has murdered hundreds with an impressive variety of spells. That's a bit like letting someone play in the Champions' League after they single-handedly beat Real Madrid 11 on 1 in a friendly match.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:57
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JustJeff88 posted:I did find humour in Pug offering to let Owyn study at Stardock like some kind of fledgling mage after Owyn has murdered hundreds with an impressive variety of spells. That's a bit like letting someone play in the Champions' League after they single-handedly beat Real Madrid 11 on 1 in a friendly match. Presumably Stardock would help him in expanding his magic repertoire beyond the warcrimes stuff.
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Dec 15, 2021 01:01
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Hel posted:Presumably Stardock would help him in expanding his magic repertoire beyond the warcrimes stuff. Or they just wanted a few hundred wizards around to contain him if he got bored and decided to see how big a crater he could make or whether he could make water burn. Guildenstern Mother posted:Like what? He could easily be shoved off to elvandar and never mentioned again, a la owyn and stardock Well, I could kind of see that if Gorath had remained around, it would have been hard to justify him not acting as a bridge between humans and Moredhel, at least between the Green Heart Moredhel and humans. Not to mention that even in the book he's a pretty big badass, combat-wise, you'd figure that he'd occasionally be whistled up when some sort of heroic quest needed doing, swagger in and cut some bad dudes in half, etc. He doesn't really seem as the sort to kick back with a book and dispense mystic advice to novice heroes when he could just walk out and handle things with them.
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Dec 15, 2021 01:11
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Very convenient of Pug to remember amazing illusionary skills at the last minute when he was otherwise relying on Owyn's brain for all his magical knowledge! So forgive me if I missed it or forgot, but was it ever explained why Delekhan was so mad about his guy capturing Gorath and bringing him back to the Northlands? At the time I was thinking that Delekhan had some villainous plot where he needed the heroes to unwittingly do something for him, and that's why he didn't want Gorath captured and kept him alive afterward, but.... I don't remember anything coming of it.
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Dec 15, 2021 02:27
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Schwartzcough posted:Very convenient of Pug to remember amazing illusionary skills at the last minute when he was otherwise relying on Owyn's brain for all his magical knowledge! The thing is that they were relying on Gorath warning Arutha about an invasion, to draw all the Kingdom's troops to Northwarden, Highcastle and the Inclindel Gap, and while they were standing there, murdering a few sacrifices from the clans Delekhan hated the most, Delekhan's actual assault troops would be teleporting straight into the Dimwood and overwhelming the Sethanon garrison.
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Dec 15, 2021 03:02
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Schwartzcough posted:So forgive me if I missed it or forgot, but was it ever explained why Delekhan was so mad about his guy capturing Gorath and bringing him back to the Northlands? At the time I was thinking that Delekhan had some villainous plot where he needed the heroes to unwittingly do something for him, and that's why he didn't want Gorath captured and kept him alive afterward, but.... I don't remember anything coming of it. So, pardon if my recollection is off because I'm not fully caught up on the LP itself so if it got explained in what I haven't finished, well, whoops. But anyway. Basically, Gorath is warning about an invasion, but he's warning about the wrong (kind of) invasion. So the Kingdom is going to bolster its defenses in entirely the wrong places and ways if they listen to Gorath. e: beaten like a drum
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Dec 15, 2021 03:03
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Ah yes, that makes sense. Thanks! And I have no opinions on BoA vs. RtK! I expect I'll follow either one.
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Dec 15, 2021 05:21
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My vote's for Antara simply because it's part of the Betrayal Collection on Steam, and I was always curious about it. I think it's a similar engine and similar character system to this game?
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Dec 15, 2021 06:45
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Snorb posted:My vote's for Antara simply because it's part of the Betrayal Collection on Steam, and I was always curious about it. I think it's a similar engine and similar character system to this game? Broadly yes, though the engine has seen an upgrade and the character system... is... well we'll see!
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Dec 15, 2021 06:56
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I'm interested in seeing Antara but would rather follow Betrayal w/ Return and then do Antara. But that's me.
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Dec 15, 2021 17:24
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Antara because who doesn't love non-canonical adventures?
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Dec 15, 2021 18:59
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We're loving doing this!
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Dec 16, 2021 00:12
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Great LP Purple, it was a fun nostalgia trip. I tried to play through with you, but it was too painful to go back to this game. Combat just gets so samey after a while, and there is a lot of it. Never played Antara, so I am looking forward to what bullshit that game will get up to.
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Dec 16, 2021 01:26
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Whoops! Just caught up with this. Thanks for a lovely LP. 
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Feb 2, 2022 00:01
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I just caught up as well. Brought back a lot of great memories. Thanks for the LP I don't remember seeing it mentioned, but this game was actually made available for free to promote the release of Antara. You could literally just go to the Sierra website and download the full thing. I remember that being pretty much unheard of back then, and was the only reason I ever played it. It was basically the perfect game for a 13 year old kid who normally only was able to get a few new games every year, and I replayed it constantly. It also got me heavily into Feist's book. I read and reread pretty much everything that he put out until sometime in the mid-2000s when I kind of dropped them and have largely forgotten about them since. I do still have a hardcover copy of Magician on my bookshelf that I may have to go back to and see how it holds up compared to when I was a teenager. Looking forward to the Return to Krondor LP. I never played that one. I did read the novelization, but I don't really remember anything about it.
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Feb 4, 2022 08:02
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Jokymi posted:I just caught up as well. Brought back a lot of great memories. Thanks for the LP Early Feist, for me, are the only fantasy novels that do hold up from my youth these days, though the Dragonlance Legends trilogy also has legs. As a counter-example, I am re-reading the Avatar trilogy, where the gods in the Forgotten Realms are cast down, in translation and my esteem for it is definitely lower than before. Simply put, too many odd character behaviours, plot holes and the like. Mind you, the ones I remember most fondly are not the original trilogy (Shadowdale, Tantras & Waterdeep) but the two indirect sequels that followed, so we'll see. I just started Waterdeep. I do at some point need to read more deeply into Feists later work. I've re-read Magician (especially) and Silverthorn/Darkness many times, and I also recently re-read those three one-off novels set during the Riftware. My most recent finish was Servant of the Empire, but I started Mistress, read the first few pages, became annoyed and put it down. Of the 30-some novels that he has written, I've only read ~11.
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Feb 4, 2022 15:41
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JustJeff88 posted:Early Feist, for me, are the only fantasy novels that do hold up from my youth these days, though the Dragonlance Legends trilogy also has legs. As a counter-example, I am re-reading the Avatar trilogy, where the gods in the Forgotten Realms are cast down, in translation and my esteem for it is definitely lower than before. Simply put, too many odd character behaviours, plot holes and the like. Mind you, the ones I remember most fondly are not the original trilogy (Shadowdale, Tantras & Waterdeep) but the two indirect sequels that followed, so we'll see. I just started Waterdeep. Having read synopses of his later work, it feels a lot like the Brian Herbert follow-ups to Frank Herbert's original Dune novels, where it just seems to turn into stuff most reminiscent of a 7-year-old with a fever trying to recount an episode of a shonen anime he watched.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:41
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