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MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Oooh, somehow I missed this one getting started, but glad I didn't miss too many updates. This was one of my favorite games growing up and glad to see it getting a proper LP treatment.

Just to address a few items that have been brought up:
1.) Books have 100 uses. The first use per character is guaranteed to work, but then after that, it's a static chance to actually gain the skill but said chance is fairly low. Generally speaking, it's not worth the hassle to try to activate a book more than once per character; there are easier ways to raise skills than by spam-clicking to try to win a 10% chance.
2.) You mentioned abusing resting in traps to heal up for free, but you can also do the same thing in actual combat if you either chain-stun the last enemy standing (Despair Thy Eyes, the powder, etc) or just beat him up enough to wreck his accuracy.
3.) You didn't go into detail about the skill system, but the effective tl;dr is that any time you're doing training (e.g., like the combat guy in LaMut) or reading a book, you should 'tag' only the skills that will improve. Otherwise, just tag a couple skills you're actively using (Casting/Melee, Defense).
4.) Mind Melt being removed from the game is odd. I know it's a bug, but it's also strange that it's only available in one place, because most other spells have a couple sources.

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MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Selling Malaka's Ruby isn't as big of deal as you'd think, because (a) the shops in this game are quirky as hell in a way I'm assuming you'll show off and (b) IIRC the game just checks your inventory for any ruby so you could just grab a different one.

Also, let's just go to Krondor, given that we've already explored so much. No sense in completely cleaning out everything in Chapter 1 and leaving ourselves with nothing left to discover.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Thoughts about the update string:
-Having only played the game and not knowing any of the backstory of the Mockers, I had a totally different view of them. Their 'secret' headquarters in the sewers has a passageway that apparently connects to the prince's sitting room, they're friends with James, and apparently everybody in the drat palace knows they exist. So I always assumed they were an unofficial arm of the throne - keeping thievery to an acceptable level, having an ear to the ground to pass along rumors, helping out with various unsavory but necessary stuff like spying on allies, etc.
-The sewers in Chapter 2 are interesting, because Owyn is actually present at like 5 different locations just to ensure you can't get out of the sewers without him. Also, the new fights are positioned such that you're guaranteed to run into one on your way out but you can find Owyn prior to fighting anybody, so if you're really struggling (say if you came straight to Krondor and thereby James has pretty garbage gear), you can get your mage back to help you push through.
-Keys are even more useless than you're saying because the game doesn't give you the really good keys for free until much later. So you'd need to buy them, but wait, if you're going to spend money, why not just buy extra Amulets of +15 Lockpicking (yes they stack) and be able to open everything?
-Assessment isn't particularly useful, but between the boost you get here and another training and the skill book, you get something absurd like +50 to the stat. So if you do ever bother to use it for some reason, your character gets the entire stat sheet of the opponent in one go.
-Chapter 2 is a goddamned mess. It's not at all clear what you need to do either in the side quests or the main quest. Most of the other chapters usually provide at least some guidance, but Chapter 2 always felt the most unfocused.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Xander77 posted:

This is why I recommend leaving the training opportunities nearer to Krondor alone until chapter 2, to bring James (slightly more) up to snuff. Though he's never great.
I always found James to be better than Locklear. Lock has better base attack and defense, but Chapter 2/3 just have SO MANY battles, stat boosts, and buyable training books available that by late Ch.2 / early Ch.3, James takes the lead and just never gives it up. And being the most mobile character in the game is something that can’t really be replaced; there’s nothing you can do to boost Locklear’s speed.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



JustJeff88 posted:

The problem with most RPGs is that a nearly dead enemy is as dangerous as a fully healthy one, so spells that kill slowly but are more efficient... aren't, really. Debuffs and over-time effects work well in games with longer fights, but that's not the majority.
Interestingly, that's not the case here. Enemies suffer from the same health-based stat penalties that your characters do - an enemy with low health is basically useless (and might already be actively fleeing). In fact, there's even a legitimate strategy where you leave the last enemy alive at a sliver of health so you can spam the 'rest' button to recover some health.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Also worth remembering that the biggest source of skill increases is training from NPC’s and books - both of which require going a bit off the straight line path to earn money to afford it. So even if you’re not totally going off the beaten path, a lot of the side detours are very useful.

Just checked because I was curious and the speed runs of this game (e.g., doing the bare minimum) are about 3 hours. And this game doesn’t have much in the way of cutscenes or other “dead time” so that’s effectively pure game play. For comparison, BG1 and 2 are each about 30 minutes, while the entire Fallout series was run at GDQ in like 2 and a half (worth watching btw, very entertaining).

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



V. Illych L. posted:

how the gently caress do you play either bg in 30 minutes

raifield posted:

I just watched someone beat Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition in 16 minutes via abuse of Offensive Spin, Oil of Speed, and Invisibility scrolls. What seems to make it work is that Baldur's Gate advances the plot based on the player finding plot items, not by killing plot enemies. So the guy just zoomed past everyone, grabbed the plot device, and fled. The few cases where combat was required he cheesed by buying wands of fireballs or frost. His character never swung a weapon at anyone. The final battle was a scroll of magic immunity and three scrolls of Cloudkill. Pretty creative, I think.
There's also a glitch in BG's code where you can override the "enemy turns hostile when damaged" flag so you can blitz the enemy down before he even starts attacking you. If you're interested in seeing what it looks like, here's a couple good runs. These are marathon runs so they aren't quite as fast time-wise (~25 minutes), but they include explanations of what's going on and what the runner is doing:
https://gdqvods.com/game/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition
https://gdqvods.com/game/baldurs-gate-2-enhanced-edition

The 2D Fallouts work generally similarly where you basically sprint across the map, avoiding all combat, then just use very specific tactics for the handful of forced fights. The 3D Fallouts tend to rely more on abusing Bethesda's programming. This is all five main series Fallout games (1-4 plus New Vegas) in a combined total of two and a half hours, again being a marathon run so it's got full explanations of what's going on.
https://gdqvods.com/game/fallout-anthology

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Patrus always struck me as a character who is way too underpowered.

He has horrible stats - the worst speed in the game, casting accuracy which is far worse than Owyn’s given how many boosts Owyn gets, garbage defense, and low health/stamina. Then you add in that like half the spells in the game are (normally) unavailable unless you abuse the quirky item shops or chests.

He’s not totally useless because Evil Seek is Evil Seek is great but they definitely removed all the normal shenanigans so going from Owyn to Patrus ends up feeling like a huge step down.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



I find the novel/game comparisons interesting personally. :shrug:

Guildenstern Mother posted:

I'm excited about Owyn and Gorath's Excellent Adventure. This is such a fun chapter with all sorts of weird mechanics. Chap 7 always felt like padding to me, just an excuse to not have James & Co's plotline die off. Its not a bad chapter, just doesn't stick out much narratively. Kind of like Chap 2 is essentially the prologue to Chap 3 and can't really stand on its own.
When I played the first time, Chapter 7 just felt very low-effort. You're locked into a pretty small section, due to the limited bridges it ends up being very linear, it's purely retreading old ground, the battles are all pretty samey, and it mostly just broke the flow of the Owyn/Gorath storyline.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



So Pug in the games is a...little different than in the books. In the books, he's quite intelligent, thinks things through, and is the most powerful wizard (non-PlotDeviceMacros division) not just in Krondor/Kingdom but most places period.

And here he's kind of an idiot who rushes off to chase after Gamina without hesitation, drinks from a magic cup of Forgetfulness, can't be arsed to wear armor while going to battle, and (presumably for game balance reasons) somehow has lovely enough stats that he's probably worse than Chapter 8 Owyn in literally everything including magic.

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MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



I would be interested in seeing Antara if that’s possible. I remember reading as a kid that it was kind of mediocre but never got to play it.

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