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On this fine September day I got permission to start this thread to examine and debunk some of the more common theories and conspiracies concerning 9/11, and the idea that the official narrative is in some way false. Either the Bush administration was to some degree cognizant that something was going to happen on September 11th and essentially allowed it to occur when it could have been prevented to whip up support for their designs in the Middle East, or outright organized the attacks themselves as a false flag for the same reason. The former is an easier pill to swallow than the latter but both theories tend to lean on a lot of the same evidence, and there's always been a significant subset of the American population that believes such conspiracies to some degree with a wide variety of political affiliations. The internet has always provided fertile ground for such conspiracies and in the age of Twitter its not hard to find people talking about them openly to large audiences that seem receptive, not to mention lots of podcasts and videos talking about them in more detail. I'm hoping that people are going to be able to bring good data to the table here to help see if the conspiracies are mostly bunk, or perhaps even see if there's anything worth listening to for at least some of them. The US government and Bush Administration in particular has a long history of acting with murderous cynicism to pursue its interests and I can see why in the face of historical precedent like the sinking of the USS Maine, Gulf of Tonkin incident or indeed how the Bush regime exploited the horror and anger of 9/11 to pursue its murderous adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq why people are skeptical of the official narrative. Certainly there are things I still wonder about today that hopefully this thread will address. I want to avoid some of the most ridiculous theories off the bat so I think we can discard, for example, the idea that there were somehow no planes used at all in the attacks and they were all the result of digital trickery. Instead here are some of the more common pieces of evidence I see float around: 1. Insider trading in the days before 9/11 suggests some powerful people had knowledge that something was about to go down One of the more common ideas I've seen on Twitter lately: https://twitter.com/SeanMcCarthyCom/status/1436025604323745812 2. Air defense was either given a stand down order or deliberately delayed so that jets wouldn't be able to catch the planes before they hit their targets. This point is made in particular to the Pentagon which it is argued is one of the most heavily defended places on Earth so no random plane should have been able to smash into it without getting shot down by intercepters. 3. Israeli agents were celebrating the attacks and seemed to show foreknowledge that they were going to happen. As with a lot of conspiracies, including the true ones, Israel is a prominent character, though this one is more popular with the out and proud anti-semites. Still its also often included into the more 'mainstream' conspiracies with questions about these men and the suspicious activity they seem to have engaged in. They were arrested by the FBI soon after, though released without charge, and there are various photos of them often circulated by people with interest in the conspiracies to suggest something was afoot https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/  One of the Israelis in September 10th holding up a lighter against the New York skyline. 4. Tower 7 collapsed in a way that can only be explained by a controlled demolition. I won't get too into controlled demolition theories but the collapse of Tower 7 tends to be the locus of most of them since it was not directly hit like the other ones. 5. Jet Fuel can't melt steel beams. A theory so popular that its essentially turned into a meme, though its one of the weaker ones since its often been shown how even without actually melting them into liquid when steel beams are extremely hot they lose a huge amount of their strength. As an alternative theories tend to orbit around the idea that there simply wasn't enough jet fuel to create a conflagration large enough to cause the towers to collapse and there wasn't enough other debris in the buildings that could burn hot enough to support such a hot fire. This is usually part of the controlled demolition idea. 6. The lead engineer of the Twin Towers himself had stated they were built to withstand an airliner crash. Leslie Robertson is often quoted as having said that they were built well enough to shrug off a jet flying into the towers. Whether he was simply just wrong or that he should have more insight than anybody else on the strength of the towers is obviously going to be debated, but this is usually a piece of evidence that the people interest in the controlled demolition theories point towards. On a similar note they also point to an incident in 1945 where a bomber crashed into the Empire State building and stood firm without much issue to suggest the same should have happened in 9/11, though this always struck me as very weak since it doesn't account for the difference in speed, size and fuel type for the planes and structural differences between the Twin Towers and Empire State Building. 7. Passports of the Hijackers were said to be found in extremely unlikely scenarios when they should have been annihilated in the crash. Satam al-Suqami's passport is often brought up in context since it was said to be found by a passer by in New York after the planes had hit the buildings. Two other passports were recovered from flight 93. Considering that even the black boxes weren't recoverable in these crashes it seems unlikely to conspiracists that something as flimsy as a passport could survive, be found and be legible enough to give useful information. This tends to used to suggest that the official narrative around things like identifying the hijackers is highly questionable. 8. Anthrax attacks that happened in the weeks that followed had all the signs of a false flag This is the thesis of an article in 'covert action magazine', which lines up with a lot of the theories around the 9/11 attacks proper. There's lots of other things I could get into like the Pentagon missile theory, or the notion that certain high profile people in the US knew to avoid flying in the weeks before 9/11, or that US intelligence agencies were already tracking and aware of the hijackers and essentially left them to their own devices, or all kinds of things to do with Flight 93, but there are just so many things that are kicked around with 9/11 that's impossible to mention all of them. Conspiratorial minded people are also less than impressed with things like the 9/11 commission or Popular Mechanics series on the 9/11 conspiracies, offering their own responses or suggesting that they are fatally compromised by their connections to people who would have a vested interest in suppressing the truth, for example the Commission was conducted under the purview of the Bush administration and the Popular Mechanics book got a foreword by John McCain of all people. There was even a book written called 'Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and the Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory' so its a bit of a roundabout. A softer version of these conspiracies is that powerful actors within the US worked to protect people who had their hands in the attacks especially Saudi Arabians, that's about the furthest I would go in giving credence to any conspiratorial thinking with regards to 9/11 but even that doesn't have much particularly concrete stuff attached to it. Altogether I'm just hoping to get a good depository of information on 9/11 and the many theories I see around it so myself and others can have a better understanding of what happened on the day.
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Sep 12, 2021 02:31
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Speaking of air defense: https://twitter.com/SeanMcCarthyCom/status/1436881451325165573 Honestly I can probably just use Sean McCarthy's twitter to keep abreast of the most currently popular theory of the day.
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Sep 12, 2021 04:04
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thekeeshman posted:A couple of years after 9/11, I was on a flight from NYC to Singapore and ended up sitting next to a guy who worked at the Brunei embassy in NYC. He confidently informed me that 9/11 had been an Israeli plot and that all the Jews who worked in the towers had been told not to come to work that day. The world opinion polls on this Wikipedia article are a bit of a trip. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories
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Sep 13, 2021 04:28
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Ouroboros posted:I mean there are also publicly available memos from Rumsfeld pretty much the day of the attacks indicating he was looking for angles to tie 9/11 to Iraq. Now don't get me wrong, none of this constitutes evidence really, but it certainly does establish potential motive.
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Sep 29, 2021 11:57
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