(Thread IKs:
Stereotype)
|
Corsec posted:Is this saying that carbon emission intensity is inversely associated with economic equality? That is, in a more unequal society the increase in rich people's emissions is more than offset by the decline in poor and middle people's emissions? Because if so that is, uh, very challenging for ecosocialism. Pretty much any optimistic future scenario emphasizes the role of climate equity, especially internationally. no, the US exported all of its productive capacity elsewhere, which is why carbon emissions went down by some metrics
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 15:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 05:04 |
|
|
Corsec posted:Is this saying that carbon emission intensity is inversely associated with economic equality? That is, in a more unequal society the increase in rich people's emissions is more than offset by the decline in poor and middle people's emissions? Because if so that is, uh, very challenging for ecosocialism. Pretty much any optimistic future scenario emphasizes the role of climate equity, especially internationally. it is possible to have an economy in which every action does not create carbon emissions and degrade the environment. however, before anyone seriously considers that possibility, we’re going to have to burn the earth’s entire supply of fossil fuels and coat the entire surface in plastic shards and heavy metals
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 15:47
|
|
|
don't worry, perfect climate equity is in our future. we can guarantee it at this point
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 15:49
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/GalenMetzger1/status/1779590520383152352?t=2A3gtE-jX095ZqrMELJFGg&s=19 hmm, how many capitas we got now compared to 1913? oh word?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 16:16
|
|
|
Nothing more equalizing than total extinction 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 16:17
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:no, the US exported all of its productive capacity elsewhere, which is why carbon emissions went down by some metrics The emissions peak and equality peak is about 1975-1980, which is before the current trend of post-industrialization and outsourcing. So you think that after we corrected for outsourcing the carbon per capita graph would actually show overall growth after 1980 with maybe dips at 2000, 2008 and 2020? Also the inequality graph doesn't include assets, which I would expect to show even higher inequality after 1980 due to all the financialization bullshit. The correlation between the graphs looks a lot weaker before 1960 than afterwards. And after about 1980 both the actual inequality and actual emissions were higher than the graphs suggest. Presumably the 1960-1980 period can probably be dismissed as an aberration that won't be repeated? OK, that all makes sense, thanks. I can conclude that the correlation on that graph doesn't accurately represent the real world. Tungsten posted:it is possible to have an economy in which every action does not create carbon emissions and degrade the environment. however, before anyone seriously considers that possibility, we’re going to have to burn the earth’s entire supply of fossil fuels and coat the entire surface in plastic shards and heavy metals Yeah, because the biggest fossil fuel users won't stop unless they are violently forced to, but you can't possess the industrialization necessary for that violent force unless you also use a comparable amount of fossil fuels. Wakko posted:don't worry, perfect climate equity is in our future. we can guarantee it at this point Technically, it's not going to be *our* future. It's the future that belongs to whatever organisms remain to consume the plastic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 16:20
|
|
|
A lot of plastic shards are flammable
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 16:20
|
|
|
Corsec posted:The emissions peak and equality peak is about 1975-1980, which is before the current trend of post-industrialization and outsourcing. So you think that after we corrected for outsourcing the carbon per capita graph would actually show overall growth after 1980 with maybe dips at 2000, 2008 and 2020? Also the inequality graph doesn't include assets, which I would expect to show even higher inequality after 1980 due to all the financialization bullshit. There's no economic or political configuration that can save us now. Hope this helps
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 16:33
|
|
|
Hey now posadism is an economic or political configuration, vulcans should be here in a few!
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 16:35
|
|
|
Harold Fjord posted:A lot of plastic shards are flammable If they are flammable then they are also exothermic which makes them easier to metabolise, I think. So those will be the plastics that future organisms prefer to eat. It is our duty to the wellbeing of future generations to manufacture and release plastics that are more flammable. Perry Mason Jar posted:There's no economic or political configuration that can save us now. Hope this helps What is the name for the economic and politcal configuration based on eating flammable plastics? If they are colony organisms, do they count as good socialists?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 16:40
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:There's no economic or political configuration that can save us now. Hope this helps Yeah. The whole "CO2 per capita" thing is nothing more than an exercise in moralism and playing favorites. The climate doesn't give a gently caress about declining US emissions per capita, or China having lower emissions per capita than the US, or anything like that. The thing that actually matters is total CO2 in the atmosphere. From that perspective, things are either going well or going badly. We all know the answer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 17:17
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:There's no economic or political configuration that can save us now. Hope this helps Wow. Get this Malthusian ecofascist talk out of here!
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 17:26
|
|
|
The funny thing about focusing on per capita emissions for the US in particular is that it's extremely close to open climate change denialism. You're essentially saying that we solved climate change decades ago, because any observed modern warming would be inconsistent with the idea that the situation has actually been improving since at least the late 70s.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 17:37
|
|
|
Slow News Day posted:Yeah. The whole "CO2 per capita" thing is nothing more than an exercise in moralism and playing favorites. The climate doesn't give a gently caress about declining US emissions per capita, or China having lower emissions per capita than the US, or anything like that. The thing that actually matters is total CO2 in the atmosphere. From that perspective, things are either going well or going badly. We all know the answer. American line go down. Nature is healing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 17:39
|
|
|
Slow News Day posted:Yeah. The whole "CO2 per capita" thing is nothing more than an exercise in moralism and playing favorites. The climate doesn't give a gently caress about declining US emissions per capita, or China having lower emissions per capita than the US, or anything like that. The thing that actually matters is total CO2 in the atmosphere. From that perspective, things are either going well or going badly. We all know the answer. Excuse me, but growth-based society really, really cares about moralism and playing favourites because it justifies giving and/or withholding treats (for the people who still receive them anyway) to make people support more growth. The last remaining humans will tell campfire stories about how those other people's ancestors hosed everything up and killed the world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 17:49
|
|
|
Corsec posted:Excuse me, but growth-based society really, really cares about moralism and playing favourites because it justifies giving and/or withholding treats (for the people who still receive them anyway) to make people support more growth. Greedy Developing Countries is going to be the narrative order of the day long before "last remaining humans"
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 17:56
|
|
|
The Oldest Man posted:Greedy Developing Countries is going to be the narrative order of the day long before "last remaining humans"
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 18:11
|
|
|
The Oldest Man posted:Greedy Developing Countries is going to be the narrative order of the day long before "last remaining humans" Oh lol I didn't mean to imply that we weren't already doing that lmao. I mean that the last humans will *still* be doing that. It looks like the narrative is 'overpopulated' rather than 'greedy'. 'Overpopulated' will also be a lot more applicable to the many, many refugees coming from developing countries.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 18:21
|
|
|
The Oldest Man posted:Greedy Developing Countries is going to be the narrative order of the day long before "last remaining humans" https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/05/maasai-tribe-tanzania-forced-land-evictions-serengeti/677835/ https://archive.ph/edibJ
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 18:26
|
|
|
Corsec posted:Oh lol I didn't mean to imply that we weren't already doing that lmao. I mean that the last humans will *still* be doing that. "Overpopulated" will be the narrative when developing countries don't invest in their own development enough to hang on when climate change begins to cause megadeaths and those refugees start flooding toward rich countries' borders. "Greedy" will be the narrative when developing countries do invest in their own development enough to hang on when climate change begins to cause megadeaths and they're not a major source of refugees but they're not hitting punitive emissions reduction targets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 18:29
|
|
|
The Oldest Man posted:"Overpopulated" will be the narrative when developing countries don't invest in their own development enough to hang on when climate change begins to cause megadeaths and those refugees start flooding toward rich countries' borders. OK, got it. For example; China will be deemed "Greedy", Nigeria will be deemed "Overpopulated".
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 18:36
|
|
|
gently caress its hot already lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 20:50
|
|
|
adam driver 'more' gif https://www.commondreams.org/news/biden-offshore-oil-terminal
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 21:18
|
|
|
The Oldest Man posted:adam driver 'more' gif https://www.commondreams.org/news/biden-offshore-oil-terminal quote:Allie Rosenbluth, U.S. manager at Oil Change International, noted that the project has been approved despite the International Energy Agency's clear assessment in 2021 that "all new investments in oil and gas projects must stop if the world is going to reach its climate goals," including limiting planetary heating to 1.5°C lmao they're still going to talk about limiting warming to 1.5 even after we pass 2 aren't they
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 21:35
|
|
|
Colonel Cancer posted:Hey now posadism is an economic or political configuration, vulcans should be here in a few! I retract my statement
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 22:28
|
|
|
Scarabrae posted:gently caress its hot already lol feels good, got the windows open
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 22:40
|
|
|
Kal posted:lmao they're still going to talk about limiting warming to 1.5 even after we pass 2 aren't they they'll talk about limiting it to 3 and it will always have been the target, until we blow past it. all the other temps will get memory holed. the target temp will only move upward. number can only go up. there's an obama quote around where he's doing that with 1.5 and 2.5 iirc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 22:47
|
|
|
I love Endless Summer 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 22:53
|
|
|
Don't forget, we are "temporarily" above 1.5C. It'll come down any day now
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 22:55
|
|
|
Microplastics posted:Don't forget, we are "temporarily" above 1.5C. It'll come down any day now the universe will someday just be black holes spinning in infinity, this is all temporary, consume without fear my friend
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2024 23:01
|
|
|
A bug bounced of my windshield yesterday. First time that's happened in years. I immediately felt bad about it. When I was a kid in the 80s it was just annoying. Now I go out of my way to take every bug I find out of the house and set it free. It's a weird cognitive dissonance. I know the chance of any species surviving more than another decade or two is near zero, but I still want to do whatever I can to help. Maybe my head is still infested with notions of hopeless battles against impossible odds, like I'm a peasant with a pitchfork in a last stand against a field of war elephants or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 00:22
|
|
|
Kal posted:lmao they're still going to talk about limiting warming to 1.5 even after we pass 2 aren't they Microplastics posted:Don't forget, we are "temporarily" above 1.5C. It'll come down any day now They're going to be talking about limiting warming to 1.5c when the atmosphere boils off
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 00:30
|
|
|
this reads exceptionally coming up with a statistic to tutt tutt about. like I don’t know poo poo about anything I don’t know what chinas doing I don’t know if it’s good or bad but I have seen pedantic shitposting before this is some crying to Paris accords qcs poo poo
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 01:38
|
|
|
kater posted:this reads exceptionally coming up with a statistic to tutt tutt about. like I don’t know poo poo about anything I don’t know what chinas doing I don’t know if it’s good or bad but I have seen pedantic shitposting before this is some crying to Paris accords qcs poo poo A nice follow-up question would be "just how much coal power is being created everywhere else?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 02:01
|
|
|
kater posted:this reads exceptionally coming up with a statistic to tutt tutt about. like I don’t know poo poo about anything I don’t know what chinas doing I don’t know if it’s good or bad but I have seen pedantic shitposting before this is some crying to Paris accords qcs poo poo Whenever the western press talks about China, it's always in terms of total emissions or total capacity for the whole country compared to their historical trend Whenever the western press talks about the west, it's always per capita and always compared to their own country's historical trend For some reason e: also, it is totally forbidden to ever talk about how emissions are attributed or how the US's emissions can be going down when its fossil fuel exports are going up The Oldest Man has issued a correction as of 02:11 on Apr 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 02:07
|
|
|
I’m just glad to know its all gonna work itself out
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 03:33
|
|
|
Can't remember if it was from a report, or just some random person saying it, but someone said the last time there was this much carbon in the atmosphere the global temperature was +7°C . If that's true, and that means that's where we're headed now, we aren't going to be able to manage this even if we stopped all further emissions immediately. All we can hope for is everyone to hold hands and help each other as best we can into an extreme future. Who thinks that's going to be the path we take?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 04:03
|
|
|
starkebn posted:Can't remember if it was from a report, or just some random person saying it, but someone said the last time there was this much carbon in the atmosphere the global temperature was +7°C . If that's true, and that means that's where we're headed now, we aren't going to be able to manage this even if we stopped all further emissions immediately. it was Toby from the office
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 04:05
|
|
|
tbh the timescale for that is probably fine for humanity to adapt in the kind of limited sense of some humans living somewhere habitable and still engaging in, at a minimum, localized agricultural societies the question is more whether something that happens along the way like ocean deoxygenation takes us out
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 04:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 05:04 |
|
|
Some parts of the planet are going to remain habitable even in the +7 C scenario. Some humans will survive, although probably not at the current level of technology This is why I'm advocating for a nuclear laser to destroy the moon and finish the job permanently
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 07:08
|
|
