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Fell Mood posted:The purpose of a system is what it does. One could assume that nothing unusual is going on with the earth. One of the species is reproducing and consuming until it reaches the limits of it's environment, at which point dieback occurs. Just like when some dumb invasive plant saps all the nitrogen in the ground. Sucks to be a blade of grass
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Apr 16, 2024 23:21
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Fell Mood posted:The purpose of a system is what it does. One could assume that nothing unusual is going on with the earth. One of the species is reproducing and consuming until it reaches the limits of it's environment, at which point dieback occurs. yeah. the response to this is usually some version of "but we're different because we could choose to live a different way!". ok. are we. are we doing that.
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Apr 17, 2024 00:09
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(watching a wildfire burn down my neighborhood) thus is the nature of fire. I shant stand in the way of this natural process
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Apr 17, 2024 00:17
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smoobles posted:(watching a wildfire burn down my neighborhood) thus is the nature of fire. I shant stand in the way of this natural process *D&Dishly* natural fallacy 
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Apr 17, 2024 00:18
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I mean, there's certainly nothing one human can do to stop their neighborhood burning down
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Apr 17, 2024 00:19
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I can 1) call the fire department 2) post
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Apr 17, 2024 00:21
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Apr 17, 2024 00:23
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"Hello, fire department? I might have started an eentsy teentsy little fire all over the planet. Can you get here quick?"
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Apr 17, 2024 00:25
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Mola Yam posted:yeah. the response to this is usually some version of "but we're different because we could choose to live a different way!". ok. are we. are we doing that. We can quit any time we want!!!
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Apr 17, 2024 00:25
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The idea that human nature leads us to this is controversial. People will complain about biotruths, but on the other hand humans are animals, and it would be weird if our genetics didn't have SOME effects on the way we organize ourselves. People will say the problem is capitalism, but capitalism wasn't imposed on us by aliens. It's a human construct and thus human nature played a role in how it developed. It has also for some reason "won" against other ways of life and become dominant. One could argue that occured because it's the mode of life that best suits what we are. Perhaps cooperative long term focus societies are disadvantaged for some reason as population increases, or because of some aspects of changes in our technology. Or perhaps that's all bs. Maybe this is a stage and human "nature" whatever that is, is leading to something else. Maybe the defining trait of humans is to be able to adapt and change ourselves, our nature.
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Apr 17, 2024 00:53
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Maybe I need a drink
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Apr 17, 2024 00:54
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[Biosphere Collapse]Wakko posted:obviously its great if you have kids
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Apr 17, 2024 01:00
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Fell Mood posted:Maybe I need a drink We shouldn't fault the yeast for consuming as much as they possibly can despite the non-renewable resource base and limited space within their closed system; how else would we have delicious carbonated beer? 
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Apr 17, 2024 01:06
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it all makes perfect sense if the global system is blind, deaf, dumb & rudderless. individuals may have free will, but the collective static of individuals choices is brownian motion when subject to the law of large numbers so, no we can't quit actually... at least not until collective action becomes globally coherent enough to overcome the moral hazard of unfettered, sociopathic capital ooOOOR ..we at some point are no longer subject to the law of large numbers 😬
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Apr 17, 2024 01:10
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The Protagonist posted:it all makes perfect sense if the global system is blind, deaf, dumb & rudderless. many people are saying this
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Apr 17, 2024 01:23
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Society theoretically (and historically!) provides us with the tools to do things that we can't do as individuals, including managing common resources where our individual urge is to just consume as much as we can because that's what our dumb ape brains are telling us to do. Biotruths and a ton of evolutionary psychology is bullshit, but it's also very obvious that, you know, we care about social norms for a reason. So it's pretty cool that we've morphed our society into one that holds individual greed and selfishness in the highest regard, thus completely eliminating one of the most beneficial aspects of having a society at all. It feels like we failed some test and welp.
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Apr 17, 2024 01:26
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It's kind of a prisoner's dilemma Every lifeform wants to exist with as much ease as possible, and if we cooperate we can have a good level of ease for everyone. If someone chooses to gently caress over the others they will maximise their ease at the expense of the others, and if they all choose to gently caress each other over it's pretty bad equally for both as long as they have an equal position. If someone makes the decision to get ahead and screw the others first they're going to do it as quickly and as effectively as possible to get so far ahead they can no longer be hosed over by the others. It's horrible and I acknowledge that I live a life that is more comfortable than humans have ever lived because I was born out of the right womb while others suffer. I think all of the worlds problems stem from not collectively sharing responsibility for the land and resources of the planet. And not enough understanding how our actions effect the biosphere until it was too late.
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Apr 17, 2024 01:33
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only capitalism did this poo poo. every other human endeavor was done in a biosphere that could accommodate it. only a handful of rich people with addresses and names, some of which are alive right now, are boiling the seas and killing off the planet. blaming the whole species is just cringy internet nihilism and inherently ecofascist
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Apr 17, 2024 01:39
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mags posted:only capitalism did this poo poo. every other human endeavor was done in a biosphere that could accommodate it. only a handful of rich people with addresses and names, some of which are alive right now, are boiling the seas and killing off the planet. blaming the whole species is just cringy internet nihilism and inherently ecofascist no way, poo poo started going bad as soon as someone said "this land is mine, I'll do what I want with it and you can't stop me"
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Apr 17, 2024 01:53
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starkebn posted:no way, poo poo started going bad as soon as someone said "this land is mine, I'll do what I want with it and you can't stop me" the first territorial amphibians really hosed it up for the rest of us
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Apr 17, 2024 01:55
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I e said it before I'm sure I'll say it again, gently caress them temnospondyl tetrapods
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Apr 17, 2024 02:04
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mags posted:the first territorial amphibians really hosed it up for the rest of us fair enough point I suppose it's the difference between sharing space and resources equitably and overusing what's available. When did we really start wrecking the biosphere? It has to be long before capitalism.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:26
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starkebn posted:fair enough point The agricultural revolution, switching from being hunter-gatherers to forming permanent settlements where we farmed monocultures, aka "the worst mistake in human history". Once we became dependent on crops and reproduced beyond the natural carrying capacity of the environment there was no turning back without allowing many people to starve. hypoallergenic cat breed has issued a correction as of 02:51 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 02:49
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hypoallergenic cat breed posted:The agricultural revolution, switching from being hunter-gatherers to forming permanent settlements where we farmed monocultures, aka "the worst mistake in human history". Once we became dependent on crops and reproduced beyond the natural carrying capacity of the environment there was no turning back without allowing many people to starve. I think we could manage agriculture sustainably, but it's the "reproduce beyond capacity" that ruined it because they just didn't know better I suppose
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Apr 17, 2024 03:01
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reminder that capitalism did this
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Apr 17, 2024 03:04
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mags posted:only capitalism did this poo poo. every other human endeavor was done in a biosphere that could accommodate it. only a handful of rich people with addresses and names, some of which are alive right now, are boiling the seas and killing off the planet. blaming the whole species is just cringy internet nihilism and inherently ecofascist Not true, human history is full of societies across cultures and continents that exceeded their local ecological limits through a combination of natural climate shifts and human impact, and collapsed/suffered a dieback to sustainable levels in their new ecological conditions. The Bronze Age Collapse in the Fertile Crescent, Angkor Wat, Easter Island, Great Zimbabwe, Cahokia, Harappans, the list goes on and on and on. This isn't some uninformed Reddit nihilism thing, this is the academic consensus among a bunch of very serious anthropologists and paleontologists. What's different this time is that we're seeing a crossing of ecological limits in the first ever truly global society. Previous societies killed off by ecological boundaries were regionally limited due to smaller populations and less developed technology, now we've grown up enough to kill an entire planet at the same time instead of just different regions of it at staggered times. But this is only a difference in scale, not in kind. Humans have been doing this at least since we invented agriculture - agriculture is inherently a process for redirecting ecological energy and resources towards human ends outside of "natural" cycles after all.
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Apr 17, 2024 03:15
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The Oldest Man posted:might as well ascribe purpose to the existence of sand dunes or fire Well yeah, the purpose of sand dunes is to be a place where windblown sand particles accumulate, the purpose of a fire is to move a system towards entropy via combustion, the purpose of DNA-based life is to maximize copies of its DNA. If you mean on like a higher philosophical level, then ok there is no purpose to life, or fire, or sand dunes. But I'm speaking in practicalities of how and why, not spiritual philosophy.
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Apr 17, 2024 03:21
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The Protagonist posted:it all makes perfect sense if the global system is blind, deaf, dumb & rudderless. Humans are actually a type of gas, macroscopic gas
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Apr 17, 2024 03:35
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if we imagine them as n-D nodes in a vector field of all possible economic choices
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Apr 17, 2024 03:45
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quote:So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us If life is a song it'd be a better song if it was anticapitalist.
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Apr 17, 2024 03:52
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https://twitter.com/volcaholic1/status/1780320716509864364?t=yZ6ndymakIEHcbJb4E_MBA&s=19 A year's worth of rain fell in Dubai in a single day lmao
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Apr 17, 2024 03:55
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it's desert it's supposed to be wet
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Apr 17, 2024 04:10
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Communist Cop posted:https://twitter.com/volcaholic1/status/1780320716509864364?t=yZ6ndymakIEHcbJb4E_MBA&s=19 Oh, so now you're complaining about too much rain when it was too little before?! 
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Apr 17, 2024 04:13
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smoobles posted:it's desert it's supposed to be wet
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Apr 17, 2024 04:44
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Crazycryodude posted:Not true, human history is full of societies across cultures and continents that exceeded their local ecological limits through a combination of natural climate shifts and human impact, and collapsed/suffered a dieback to sustainable levels in their new ecological conditions. The Bronze Age Collapse in the Fertile Crescent, Angkor Wat, Easter Island, Great Zimbabwe, Cahokia, Harappans, the list goes on and on and on. This isn't some uninformed Reddit nihilism thing, this is the academic consensus among a bunch of very serious anthropologists and paleontologists. GREAT post, but there are nuances to each particular societal collapse worth exploring ...
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Apr 17, 2024 05:34
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The Oldest Man posted:Greedy Developing Countries is going to be the narrative order of the day long before "last remaining humans" it already is here
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Apr 17, 2024 06:58
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Brendan Rodgers posted:Humans are actually a type of gas, macroscopic gas glad to hear you've finally accepted gibson into your heart. welcome, brother
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Apr 17, 2024 07:04
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Hubbert posted:reminder that capitalism did this humans are now so good at killing poo poo that we can do it on the couch with the ac on full blast
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Apr 17, 2024 07:05
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Communist Cop posted:https://twitter.com/volcaholic1/status/1780320716509864364?t=yZ6ndymakIEHcbJb4E_MBA&s=19 I want to play the waterworld mod for Spec Ops: The Line
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Apr 17, 2024 09:57
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dubai is flooding because of cloud seeding 
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Apr 17, 2024 09:59
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