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Strong Sauce posted:
This literally isn't confusing lol. They've been doing this exact same regular set + commander specific cards release for a while now. At least with OTJ there were like four or five different card buckets all getting dumped together in packs so it was a bit confusing, but this really isn't that bad. The symbol even looks way different this time!
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Apr 26, 2024 18:04
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Strong Sauce posted:I'm just harping on how dumb it is that there's an attached commander series, not specifically anything about Grist. Yeah, connected to Modern Horizons 3, a direct to modern set, there's Modern Horizons 3 Commander, which is not modern legal. So there's cards with the modern horizons 3 branding that aren't in modern.
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Apr 26, 2024 18:06
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Peewi posted:I might be inclined to agree that it's silly that Modern Horizons 3 is getting commander decks, but not modern decks. That I can agree with, but the challenger deck problem is that they either make decks at middling power that stick on shelves or make good ones that get scalped and sold for parts. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Yeah, connected to Modern Horizons 3, a direct to modern set, there's Modern Horizons 3 Commander, which is not modern legal. You mean the cards with a different set symbol that don't show up MH3 packs? Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Apr 26, 2024 |
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Apr 26, 2024 18:06
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The decks that say "modern" on them aren't modern legal. This is dumb. e:I'm just saying, between cards in standard legal booster packs not being standard legal, and supplemental products having a different legality than their similarly branded booster products, mtg needs regulation marks way more than ptcg ever did. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Apr 26, 2024 |
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Apr 26, 2024 18:10
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No product is allowed to stand alone, everything has to also serve commander.
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Apr 26, 2024 18:19
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fadam posted:This literally isn't confusing lol. They've been doing this exact same regular set + commander specific cards release for a while now. At least with OTJ there were like four or five different card buckets all getting dumped together in packs so it was a bit confusing, but this really isn't that bad. The symbol even looks way different this time! It's because they normalized it which is why you're fine with it. Standard sets were for drafting and putting into 60-card formats and commander. But now they have attached Command Sets. Okay, I guess? Masters sets were a 100% reprint set, until last year. Modern sets were 100% modern legal, until this upcoming release, which will have a Modern Commander set that is only Commander legal, not Modern legal. "'Modern' is just the name of the set, not where it's legal! Don't you know anything?" It is dumb, plain and simple. The fact that you, a well seasoned magic player who has already dealt with WOTCs dumbness is kinda irrelevant. It is just really confusing and off-putting. Words should have some meaning. Otherwise just call it, "Summer Premium Set 2024"
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Apr 26, 2024 18:24
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The hosed up thing is that we still get commander plants in the main sets. And they're never cards that see play in more than 1 format.
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Apr 26, 2024 18:24
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Strong Sauce posted:It's because they normalized it which is why you're fine with it. Counter point: if they did it and most people have no problems understanding it, is it really a big deal? I don't think a player exists who is enfranchised enough to want to play Modern, but also is oblivious enough to not use any of the billion resources available (including the text on the card!!!) to help figure out legality. A Moose posted:The hosed up thing is that we still get commander plants in the main sets. And they're never cards that see play in more than 1 format. There have been lovely unplayable cards in every single Magic set since the beginning.
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Apr 26, 2024 18:26
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fadam posted:Counter point: if they did it and most people have no problems understanding it, is it really a big deal? I don't think a player exists who is enfranchised enough to want to play Modern, but also is oblivious enough to not use any of the billion resources available (including the text on the card!!!) to help figure out legality. I would assume, reading the text on the card, that the M in M3C stands for modern. Even enfranchised players do genuinely have a problem, as we seem to retread the topic of "wait what parts of this release are legal?" every expansion it seems.
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Apr 26, 2024 18:30
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the product fuckery mostly harms people in the middle of the bell curve. if you're very invested in the game, you'll probably be able to figure out legality or know where to find out for sure. the newest players don't care because they'll just smash random cards they open into decks and do kitchen magic or commander without issue. if you are in the middle where you are in the process of making a greater commitment to the game, or even starting to branch out beyond casual commander (the people who are on their way to becoming whales, aka the lifeblood of the game's monetization pipeline), it's a pain in the rear end to figure out where everything goes and it could increase your chances of divesting and finding something else to play. I can't say whether it's good or bad in the abstract sense, but it just seems to be harmful to the bottom line intuitively. the "middle class" of magic investment might hollow out over time. that's the real danger
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Apr 26, 2024 18:44
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Why couldn't they just name it something else? Going to be annoying for LGSs that inevitably will have to deal with more casual modern players buying "modern" cards that they can't play in their modern decks. Just got back into magic recently after a 4-5 year break so maybe people are used to it but it's just unnecessarily unclear.
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Apr 26, 2024 18:49
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freeman posted:Why couldn't they just name it something else? To me that sounds very similar to if someone wants to play with a card and doesn't realize it's banned. Which I would assume happens sometimes, but probably isn't a huge issue.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:10
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Peewi posted:To me that sounds very similar to if someone wants to play with a card and doesn't realize it's banned. Which I would assume happens sometimes, but probably isn't a huge issue. The primary purpose of the Modern Horizons set series was injecting cards into modern though. Not really at all similar to people playing banned cards.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:15
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The cards are pretty strongly differentiated though to the point of having completely different set symbols
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Apr 26, 2024 19:15
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I mean they legit do things that are far more confusing, like putting cards in prerelease kits that aren't legal for your pool. Or making those same cards standard legal but only available in those kits.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:20
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Wurzag posted:The cards are pretty strongly differentiated though to the point of having completely different set symbols Idk, if I bought a box of cards that said "Modern Horizons 3" on the front and they weren't legal in modern I'd be pretty confused. Again, I just came back so maybe everyone is used it because of the standard sets but it still seems especially silly given the name of the set is referring to a specific format.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:35
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freeman posted:Idk, if I bought a box of cards that said "Modern Horizons 3" on the front and they weren't legal in modern I'd be pretty confused. The commander products are clearly labelled as such
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Apr 26, 2024 19:42
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Wurzag posted:The commander products are clearly labelled as such They are also clearly labeled as modern, but aren't.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:44
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didn't even realize the PT is happening right now on twitch. so turn it on if you care i guess
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Apr 26, 2024 19:52
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Dr. Stab posted:They are also clearly labeled as modern, but aren't. It's no different from every other commander product they release for every other set
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Apr 26, 2024 19:52
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Wurzag posted:It's no different from every other commander product they release for every other set Except those products don't have standard in the name. But standard product lines having non standard cards in them is also bad. This is just a little worse on top of that.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:55
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:putting cards in prerelease kits that aren't legal for your pool This poo poo was annoying as hell and caused at least one instance of someone getting called out mid game during prereleases every single time they opted to do it. You could accomplish the same thing by just adding them to the stack of promos to hand out at the end of the event that they always do anyway. So many players these days go from initial Arena or kitchen table commander play to prereleases as their first "real" experience and it should really be a thing they keep as clean, clear and concise as humanly possible with those kinds of elements.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:57
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EVERY game in my LOTR prerelease had an illegal card in their deck. Every game…. loving dumb.
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Apr 26, 2024 19:59
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Cactrot posted:No product is allowed to stand alone, it is magic the gathering Standard designs have to tiptoe around people not ever interested in playing standard and change standard cards for people who don't play the stale formats.
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Apr 26, 2024 20:03
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LoTR was extra confusing because they were just alt arts of very benign regular main set cards with zero justification for why they couldn't go into your pool.
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Apr 26, 2024 20:05
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Do people just go into a fugue state the second they go to buy any product off the shelf that they don't snap out of until theyve left the store i don't understand how this is even confusing in regards to physical sealed product  I get it when it comes to poo poo like the non legal promos or bonus sheets (but at the same time there wasn't this hemming and hawing when we got masterpieces a decade ago so I think it's a little performative when coming from people whove been playing for a while lol) but also like... If you're confused on format legality... Every single card has that listed on sites such as scryfall and gatherer... The info is close at hand at all times 
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Apr 26, 2024 20:07
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people just think it's silly that a product with modern on it contains cards that won't be modern legal, even if it's easily explainable by commander being on the same product. I don't think anyone is thinking it's a bigger deal than that
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Apr 26, 2024 20:11
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Magic is ingerently a very confusing product all around so I'm not sure why you fail to understand how it's confusing to some people.
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Apr 26, 2024 20:15
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I mean they legit do things that are far more confusing, like putting cards in prerelease kits that aren't legal for your pool. Or making those same cards standard legal but only available in those kits. Yes I agree that this is confusing. kalel posted:the product fuckery mostly harms people in the middle of the bell curve. if you're very invested in the game, you'll probably be able to figure out legality or know where to find out for sure. the newest players don't care because they'll just smash random cards they open into decks and do kitchen magic or commander without issue. if you are in the middle where you are in the process of making a greater commitment to the game, or even starting to branch out beyond casual commander (the people who are on their way to becoming whales, aka the lifeblood of the game's monetization pipeline), it's a pain in the rear end to figure out where everything goes and it could increase your chances of divesting and finding something else to play. Yeah I think this is what I'm feeling. To me, the game is complicated enough as it is and I feel like WOTC doing this just adds another layer of complexity people have to learn about. Why go through all that trouble when you can just learn Lorcana or that new Star Wars or One Piece game. MTG is the big dog still but I have to wonder how many (edit: probable) long-term players they're bleeding out just so they can release Premium Commander Decks in a Modern set. Mix. posted:Do people just go into a fugue state the second they go to buy any product off the shelf that they don't snap out of until theyve left the store i don't understand how this is even confusing in regards to physical sealed product Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Apr 26, 2024 |
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Apr 26, 2024 20:24
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Mix. posted:Do people just go into a fugue state the second they go to buy any product off the shelf that they don't snap out of until theyve left the store i don't understand how this is even confusing in regards to physical sealed product If a product says "Magic The Gathering Modern Commander" on it. Do you assume it is legal in both modern and commander, or only one or the other? If it is only one or the other, unless it directly states ("these cards are not legal in modern unless they are reprints that are legal in modern") or you spend to much time on the internet talking and reading about Magic, how are you supposed to work it out?
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Apr 26, 2024 20:30
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jassi007 posted:If a product says "Magic The Gathering Modern Commander" on it. Do you assume it is legal in both modern and commander, or only one or the other? If it is only one or the other, unless it directly states ("these cards are not legal in modern unless they are reprints that are legal in modern") or you spend to much time on the internet talking and reading about Magic, how are you supposed to work it out? I don't think players acquainted enough with Magic that they play Modern will make this error. I don't know, do you think a commander player will pick up one of these MH3 precons and try to enter a Modern tournament with it? I guess it's possible.
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Apr 26, 2024 20:34
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Aliasv off of play by play after 4 years the PT is saved!
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Apr 26, 2024 20:36
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I made that error until I was told otherwise. The branding is misleading. It doesn't stop being misleading because I later read the right information elsewhere on the internet.
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Apr 26, 2024 20:42
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I don't think anyone is going to change anyone's mind here, but IMO if you can explain the confusion away in one sentence, it's not actually confusing.
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Apr 26, 2024 21:08
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fadam posted:I don't think anyone is going to change anyone's mind here, but IMO if you can explain the confusion away in one sentence, it's not actually confusing. Its really easy to confuse people. Lieutenant Centaur posted:didn't even realize the PT is happening right now on twitch. Draft continues to be a loving snorefest.
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Apr 26, 2024 21:14
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fadam posted:I don't think anyone is going to change anyone's mind here, but IMO if you can explain the confusion away in one sentence, it's not actually confusing. I would instead say that if it needs a sentence to explain, you've done a bad job of making it simple.
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Apr 26, 2024 21:15
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I didn't realize that bonus sheets didn't go into standard until 1 or 2 sets ago. Given that, I am obviously not a competitive constructed player, but I consider myself a reasonably enfranchised player overall, I regularly trophy paper and mtgo drafts. So the non-uniform legality in products is definitely confusing
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Apr 26, 2024 21:31
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AngryBooch posted:I don't think players acquainted enough with Magic that they play Modern will make this error. I don't know, do you think a commander player will pick up one of these MH3 precons and try to enter a Modern tournament with it? I guess it's possible. I'd like to think this to, but in my personal experience it isn't true. About once a month or so, someone will show up to my LGS's pioneer or modern magic night. They find Magic event on Facebook and are like cool! We explain to them the format, ask if they have a deck that is legal, offer to look through it if they aren't sure, offer to loan them a deck for the evening that is of an appropriate power level with what other folks are going to be playing. We play meta or meta-ish decks, there is a small group of folks that at this point are basically Magic Boomers that like paper 1v1 formats. Most of the time the new player inevitably just want to play their sweet deck. It is almost always a deck made up out of their collection and they've been playing for like 6-12 months. We try to be as inviting as we can, but the honest truth is they're going to get loving smashed by people who have been playing for one more more decades and basically keep up with all the meta poo poo because we like it. I was playing Rakdos Vampires a couple weeks ago and this exact scenario happened, I literally just didn't cast 1/2 the cards in my hand because I didn't need to and I didn't want to make the experience worse than it was already for the other player. It is still a miserable experience for them most of the time, and other than just wildly throwing the game by playing almost no cards and making obviously bad decisions I don't know what else we can really do to make our events more inviting to random newcomers. TL:DR people literally do wander in to play Modern and have no loving clue.
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Apr 26, 2024 21:32
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This draft format is insanely fun to play and watch. Good job wizards
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Apr 26, 2024 21:32
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 hell yeah
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Apr 26, 2024 21:36
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