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Narrow counterspells are generally really bad - the fact that you need to be holding it up at the exact moment they play the narrow thing it affects makes it so much worse than, say, equally-narrow removal. Are you going to hold it up every turn in case they play the thing you're scared of, wasting the mana otherwise? Are you going to hold it up alongside other counterspells for the other things they could play that turn instead? (In which case, what are you really gaining from the cheap-ness?) If you're gonna try it, I'd recommend mising one copy at first, and keep track of the number of times it actually does the thing better than a different card you could play, and how many times it gets stuck in your hand because it missed its chance to be good. You're right that a lot of decks do seem to have targets for it though, which is somewhat interesting but only if there's a specific matchup where you really want that card specifically. Like I dunno, if a Scissors deck with the blackstaff of waterdeep became a real t1 thing (seems unlikely).
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Sep 19, 2021 16:12
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the low opportunity cost (U) is certainly there and having 1 mana interaction for the admittedly narrow "on the draw, vs monogreen curving out with ranger class on 2" is the specific spot where It might win the match on its own that makes it so appealing that I even posted. sniping showdown and chariot are just bonuses at that point
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Sep 19, 2021 16:24
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Man some prerelease picks rolling in with no masking I had no idea wotc was bringing Infect back to standard!
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Sep 19, 2021 16:46
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Doesn't really matter how cheap the dead cards in your hand and deck are. The actual opportunity cost are the good cards that could be in those slots. On maindeckability: uh no? Aren't cards useful for a narrow, specific matchup the quintessential sideboard card? Negate and Disdainful Stroke are broader options.
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Sep 19, 2021 16:46
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Shrecknet posted:the low opportunity cost (U) is certainly there and having 1 mana interaction for the admittedly narrow "on the draw, vs monogreen curving out with ranger class on 2" is the specific spot where It might win the match on its own that makes it so appealing that I even posted. Seems like the exact definition of a niche sideboard card to me
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Sep 19, 2021 17:09
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Shrecknet posted:the low opportunity cost (U) is certainly there and having 1 mana interaction for the admittedly narrow "on the draw, vs monogreen curving out with ranger class on 2" is the specific spot where It might win the match on its own that makes it so appealing that I even posted. The opportunity cost isn’t U, it’s “a card”
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Sep 19, 2021 17:26
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I just finished a UB 7-2 draft. I was really impressed by Corpse Cobble. I was expecting it to be more like a 1:1 countering their removal but it is so much more. It's chews up zombie tokens and makes 6/6s or 8/8s out of them. More importantly, it does this at instant speed. I got a 3:1 twice by sacrificing my creatures that were locked down by Locked in the Cemetery or Candletrap (these are super common in the format) in combat as my opponent attacked, then using my token as a blocker. I used it to sacrifice creatures that want to be sacrificed, like that 2B deathtouch zombie that makes a decayed zombie. The flashback piece is key too - I won one game by sacrificing a bunch of creatures to make an 8/8, hitting with it, my opponent then threw a Locked in the Cemetery on it. The next turn, I flashed back Corpse Cobble sacrificing the 8/8 and making another 8/8 which was then unblockable because of the menace. Draft Corpse Cobble y'all.
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Sep 19, 2021 17:43
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Legacy 100k cancelled again. https://twitter.com/MissouriMTG/status/1439621391607812100?s=20 It's the right decision but sucks they have to do this a second year in a row.
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Sep 19, 2021 18:38
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leperflesh is there a way to link your big nice prob/stats post from the previous thread in the op? i think a better more intuitive understanding of probabilities and statistics would be great for deckbuilding and issues like whether niche sideboard cards should be maindecked even in metas where they might see frequent relevant targets. would be a shame to lose the post.
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Sep 19, 2021 19:15
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Okay, so we've seen the Andy Samberg card, but has anyone brought up Bradley Cooper yet? If it was in the last thread and I missed it, I apologize.
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Sep 19, 2021 20:42
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odiv posted:Okay, so we've seen the Andy Samberg card, but has anyone brought up Bradley Cooper yet? If it was in the last thread and I missed it, I apologize.
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Sep 19, 2021 20:55
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kalvanoo posted:leperflesh is there a way to link your big nice prob/stats post from the previous thread in the op? i think a better more intuitive understanding of probabilities and statistics would be great for deckbuilding and issues like whether niche sideboard cards should be maindecked even in metas where they might see frequent relevant targets. would be a shame to lose the post. Oh yeah, I forgot about that thing. Maybe I'll go and find it, clean it up/shorten it a bit, and re-post it. I could link it but it was a bit long and meandery. Thanks for reminding me though! Also if you guys know of other old effortposts in any of the previous threads, link 'em.
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Sep 20, 2021 07:00
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Leperflesh posted:Oh yeah, I forgot about that thing. I literally still have that post up in another tab: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3897251&pagenumber=1395&perpage=40&userid=0#post515486919
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Sep 20, 2021 13:26
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How do the big werewolf players, the ones that wanted a legendary for their commander deck, feel about Midnight Hunt ones being mechanically different? I think the Day/Night mechanic is good and a lot of fun, and whilst it's derived from the old werewolf flip condition it means old ones enter as humans even at night and you have to monitor for the new condition (two or zero spells from active player in a turn) as well as the old on (two or zero spells from both players in a turn) But now there's Gruul legends I think there's justification to call for Jund and Temur ones to open up more of them and the day/night gameplay. I'm getting really keen to see what mechanics will migrate to Crimson Vow. I think transform can be taken as read, not necessarily Disturb, I assume Day/Night stays for werewolves? Unless the theme of the set makes it always nighttime and Werewolves are one-sided or triggered differently? I feel like it might make sense to move away from a mechanic that exists for werewolves (but extended to be used by other stuff in their set) and find a new mechanic centered on vampires and the wedding somehow.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:25
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I don't think anyone's come straight out and said Crimson Vow won't have double faced/transform cards but I also don't really get the impression it will. I hope daybound/nightbound sticks around though; it's got some legs on it.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:42
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goferchan posted:I don't think anyone's come straight out and said Crimson Vow won't have double faced/transform cards but I also don't really get the impression it will. I hope daybound/nightbound sticks around though; it's got some legs on it. Wouldn't daybound necessitate DFC transform cards? I'm under the idea that a daybound card is required to have a night side.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:44
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Yeah, would be nice if they kept making more of night/day. I think transform/DFCs are just so strongly associated with Innistrad I'm not sure they would ever drop it. Would be like doing a Zendikar set without landfall.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:48
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HootTheOwl posted:Wouldn't daybound necessitate DFC transform cards? I'm under the idea that a daybound card is required to have a night side. Oh yeah sorry I meant day/night in general but now that I think about it, I take back what I said lol. I think I was basing it on misreading MaRo's answer to this question, and the fact that he's said Spirits will have a new mechanic that's not Disturb. But re-reading this answer it sounds like he's saying the set WILL have DFC Werewolves, just that they may be limited in quantity due to the extra wrinkles associated with DFCs. 
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Sep 20, 2021 14:50
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I actually forgot Avacyn Restored had no DFCs, but that's not an example to follow.
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Sep 20, 2021 14:58
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They need to do a Creature - Vampire Werewolf.
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Sep 20, 2021 15:00
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Ferrinus posted:They need to do a Creature - Vampire Werewolf. Secret Lair: AdventureQuest
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Sep 20, 2021 15:26
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goferchan posted:I don't think anyone's come straight out and said Crimson Vow won't have double faced/transform cards but I also don't really get the impression it will. I hope daybound/nightbound sticks around though; it's got some legs on it. I would find it interesting if the mechanic did stick around, as it was interesting in all the prerelease events I was playing in, but the reality is that we're focusing on Spirits/Vampires at least in Crimson Vow so far, I'm not optimistic about more werewolves.  I am trying to put together a Tovolar (MOSTLY) tribal EDH deck, so I would love more to get rid of somewhat vanilla werewolves. E: Didn't see the post from Maro that was shared, that's pretty awesome.
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Sep 20, 2021 16:06
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BizarroAzrael posted:I actually forgot Avacyn Restored had no DFCs, but that's not an example to follow. They also did a Zendikar set without landfall (Rise of the Eldrazi) and everyone loved that, so the problem was probably just making the set suck
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Sep 20, 2021 17:23
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BizarroAzrael posted:I actually forgot Avacyn Restored had no DFCs, but that's not an example to follow. In defense of Wizards, they had to design Restored before they knew what the reception to DFCs was. Besides, the set sucked in ways that DFCs could not have saved.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:53
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HootTheOwl posted:Wouldn't daybound necessitate DFC transform cards? I'm under the idea that a daybound card is required to have a night side. There are a handful of cards that care about Day/Night that don't transform in this set.
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Sep 20, 2021 17:59
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Silhouette posted:There are a handful of cards that care about Day/Night that don't transform in this set. Those aren't Daybound cards. Daybound/Nightbound are keywords. All the ones that do an ability based on when it changes from Day/Night have it written out.
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Sep 20, 2021 18:46
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This is such an elegant way to do it that I wish the OG Innistrad and Shadows Werewolves could work like that
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Sep 20, 2021 22:51
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PlasticAutomaton posted:This is such an elegant way to do it that I wish the OG Innistrad and Shadows Werewolves could work like that quote:If it's neither day nor night, it becomes day as ~ enters the battlefield.
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Sep 21, 2021 00:49
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not seeing the problem here
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Sep 21, 2021 01:00
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Man, I'm extremely bad at this format but I enjoy it so much more than AFR.
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Sep 21, 2021 01:42
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I genuinely don't understand what people itt find so objectionable about the day/night template.
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Sep 21, 2021 05:58
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Well for one there's no 'golden hour' time of day which is the best time of day.
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Sep 21, 2021 06:04
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Have they said anything recently about the future of mtgo?
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Sep 21, 2021 06:07
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sit on my Facebook posted:I genuinely don't understand what people itt find so objectionable about the day/night template. I think it's just me because I'm insane lol. in the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal. it's fine
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Sep 21, 2021 06:45
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sit on my Facebook posted:I genuinely don't understand what people itt find so objectionable about the day/night template. Day/night works really well and I wish that they had done it this way from the beginning, because the main confusion I have from it is due to the differences that it has from the original way werewolves were done. I definitely got my opponent once during the prerelease because they changed it from any player casting zero/2+ spells per turn to only the active player casting zero/2+ spells per turn; and the only reason I knew that change was from playing Arena. I do think that it's better this way because it gives a player much more control over whether it becomes night, but it can be unintuitive, as my opponent found out. The other... I don't know if problem is quite the correct word to use, but at least issue, is the fact that almost all werewolves are all objectively better at night than at day, while the new day/night templating allows for designing cards that gain benefits whenever the environment changes. Mostly I wish that meant there were more werewolves that gained benefits from it becoming daytime, or at least weren't just "here's the same creature, but bigger" at night, because the only ones that come to mind that don't fall into that latter category are Brutal Cathar and Huntmaster of the Fells, so one rare and one mythic. It was pointed out in one of the threads that a mechanic based around "I don't do anything during my turn" can be pretty double-sided, so having some sort of punishment if you pass your turn and your opponent just plays two spells would be nice, especially if they can gain double benefits from their own cards in that scenario.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:10
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yourdadsbestfriend posted:Day/night works really well and I wish that they had done it this way from the beginning, because the main confusion I have from it is due to the differences that it has from the original way werewolves were done. I definitely got my opponent once during the prerelease because they changed it from any player casting zero/2+ spells per turn to only the active player casting zero/2+ spells per turn; and the only reason I knew that change was from playing Arena. I do think that it's better this way because it gives a player much more control over whether it becomes night, but it can be unintuitive, as my opponent found out. It's also thematically appropriate that the werewolves get better at night, because well, they become giant wolf monsters instead of normal humans.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:16
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If you ignore just a slightly improved ability from their human side.. Fangblade Brigand: Red, when you flip it it has a 4R ability that gives all your creatures +2/0 until end of turn. Kessig Naturalist Red/Green. Other wolves/werewolves you control get +1/+1 Tovolar, Dire Overlord has a XGR spell that pumps any wolf/werewolf and gives them trample.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:20
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The original Werewolves had the serious problem that if you passed the turn to transform everything, your opponent could cast a one-mana instant on your end step to ruin your plans. It was impossible to make a good tribal werewolf deck, although Mayor of Avabruck and Huntmaster of the Fells were good on their own.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:24
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Lord_Magmar posted:It's also thematically appropriate that the werewolves get better at night, because well, they become giant wolf monsters instead of normal humans. I mean, I guess? I thought of it more like the werewolves were mindless beasts - stronger, sure, but less intelligent. Ironically enough there was a card in Innistrad that captured that idea well, but it was a blue/red DFC that was meant to be Jekyll and Hyde as opposed to a werewolf. And either way, even if it's thematically appropriate, it leads to less fun gameplay. Like, let's say I play a 3CMC werewolf on T3 and pass, and my opponent plays a Celestus Sanctifier or a Brimstone Vandal or a Firmament Sage and passes. Now I'm kinda stuck, because if I pass my turn so my werewolf gets bigger, not only does my opponent also benefit, but I run the risk of them playing two spells, turning my werewolf back off, and double-dipping with their guy; and if I do play a spell during my turn, well, then my werewolf doesn't flip and it's just generally not as good. It creates a scenario where the only way that I win is if my opponent has nothing to play, which is something I can't really rely on. Chamale posted:The original Werewolves had the serious problem that if you passed the turn to transform everything, your opponent could cast a one-mana instant on your end step to ruin your plans. It was impossible to make a good tribal werewolf deck, although Mayor of Avabruck and Huntmaster of the Fells were good on their own. Yeah, this is what I mean. The new templating is good, but there should be more werewolves that have distinct, different benefits on either side.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:37
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Tovolar's Huntmaster gains 2GG: another wolf or werewolf you control fights target creature you don't control when it turns night which not only has great synergy by giving you a mana sink so you can maintain Nighttime but also is amazing in Limited because it turns all your lovely wolf tokens into chump seeking missiles.
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Sep 21, 2021 07:51
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