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Thanks to your offhand comment I now know that you're naming your images. This is a terrible curse because now I have to know what each one is called. Odin can be a good enough mage, not least because he has no real competition for the Spirit Dusts you pick up and those can go a long way towards keeping his magic high enough to be good.
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Oct 6, 2021 02:55
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Faillen Angel posted:Odin tends to work out for me, but maybe it's because his primary competition is. Fates has a real hate for mages. In Conquest, Elise and Nyx are your strongest but their hit rates are always going to suck even using basic Fire tomes. Odin grows to be good, is great for nostanking even with nerfs, and is still mechanically the weakest of them. Your only good mage is Ophelia, and by the time you see her in a normal playthrough you're already using Odin. Felicia and Niles both make really good mages if you're willing to spend the resources on them. Niles will have some of the bulk of Odin combined with the speed and resistance of Nyx and the actual skill to hit things, but most people aren't going to give him enough weapon ranks to see that. Odin makes a better Samurai than anything, but that also takes some effort and growth as well as a seal so it's even harder than slapping Nosferatu and some tonics on him. Bad Video Games fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 03:48
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honestly i think the best "pure" mage in gen 1 is hayato and that's real sad considering his whopping level 1 start in br i'm sure orochi is fine but i've never liked how slow she is, and the cq mages are cq mages
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Oct 6, 2021 04:10
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The starting levels in all 3 fates games are wildly inconsistent and frequently horrid.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:31
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Faillen Angel posted:honestly i think the best "pure" mage in gen 1 is hayato and that's real sad considering his whopping level 1 start in br For all of Odin's faults he can pair up with his daughter and vantage + nosferatu solo maps on hard, nerfs be damned. Never tried it on lunatic, so I dunno if it holds up there, but I'd say that puts him above hayato.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:35
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I feel like stat-up items in FE are more meaningful and less elixir-brain prone, at least for me. I always use them to shore up stats I've had bad luck with on characters that need them in order to salvage a character that would otherwise need to be dumpstered due to too many bad levels.
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Oct 6, 2021 04:43
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15 new replies oh my goodness. I knew Odin's appearence would make people have opinions. He's a very polarising unit! ODIN DARK Dark Mage (HS: Samurai) A+ Support Classes: Niles (Outlaw), Laslow (Mercenary), Leo (Troubadour) Personal Skill: Aching Blood (+10 crit when equppied with a forged weapon with a name 12 characters or longer) Growths (With Default Class): HP: 55% (55) STR: 35% (45) MAG: 30% (50) SKL: 55% (55) SPD: 35% (45) LCK: 60% (60) DEF: 40% (45) RES: 20% (30) First of all, whatever I have to say about this guy is much better said by the videos on this channel. This person has turned using Odin into an art form. If you want to see how to make the most of your funny meme magic man then it's really worth watching some of his videos! Otherwise here's my Odin Opinions: Looking at his bases and looking at his growths probably won't fill you with much hope for him. He's way underleveled, and despite having the highest growth total in Conquest (only beaten in Fates by Saizo, a unit you can't get in CQ) his average stats really aren't very good thanks to how terribly they're distributed. His highest growths are in skill and luck, the game's least important stats (although Nyx is a good example of what happens if you neglect those stats entirely...), and he's got a higher strength growth than his magic growth despite being a mage. He's not got the raw firepower of Elise or Nyx, he's not got the immediate useability of Leo, and as an all-rounder mage you'd be better off using your Corrin instead, even if they don't have magic as their boon. So why would you use him...? The reason is because Nosferatu. Nosferatu was nerfed massively in Fates after Awakening's mechanics made it possible to solo almost the entire game on the hardest difficulties just by deploying a single Dark Mage with a bunch of Nosferatu tomes, and even then the tome itself was nerfed in Awakening by making it only absorb half the damage it deals instead of all of it... In Fates, Nosferatu cannot double attack, it reduces your avoid, and it cannot critical or activate in-combat offensive skills like Luna or Vengeance. It's also the only dark tome in the entire game, making it the only tome unique to the Dark Mage and Sorcerer classes. People were pretty quick to dismiss it as having been nerfed to the point of unusability. ...but it's still really useful. It's only a D rank tome, it never breaks so you'll only ever have to buy it once, and at the end of the day it's still a weapon that reliably heals your HP at the end of combat so long as you can hit with it. Odin, for all his faults, is a Dark Mage with excellent accuracy, good enough bulk, and near perfect availability. All Odin needs is a pair-up partner and maybe some tonics or some investment and you can send him away to tank powerful enemies that would otherwise wear you down. The entire left side of Chapter 10, one of the game's hardest chapters, can be trivialised by Odin and a Nosferatu tome. He's also got unique access to the normally Hoshidan exclusive Samurai class, in turn allows him to use the always great Vantage & Nosferatu combo. Odin's poor bases and mediocre growths make it hard for him to stay relevant past the mid-game without investment, but it's pretty easy to replace him when he stops being good. Using him in combat and building supports will bring you closer to unlocking his daughter, Ophelia, who with a good enough mother can easily become a better Odin who joins just in time for him to stop being useful. Ophelia will inherit some of Odin's stats and one of his skills, so training and then abandoning him won't be a complete waste. Reclassing Odin into Samurai to get Vantage, having Ophelia inherit it, and then benching Odin is a good way to save on Heart Seals. And even if you have no plans on using her, her paralogue comes with one very useful tome you can't get elsewhere. Otherwise Odin is kind of just okay. His personal skill & high skill stat can work for funny crit builds. You can take advantage of his high strength growth by making him a Dark Knight or a Samurai (although reclassing him into a Samurai won't actually increase his strength growth). If you're not using him to Nostank or taking advantage of his high critical hit then there's not much point in using him at all, unless you want to relive the days of Awakening with Samurai Odin. Oh and all his quotes are Arthur tier of good so it is vital that you play with the volume turned all the way up and with animations turned on if you're going to use him. TL;DR: Pros
Cons
My Rating: WELCOME TO MY FELL STOREFRONT... thank you for your dark business.  Niles Outlaw (HS: Dark Mage) A+ Support Classes: Odin (Dark Mage), Arthur (Fighter), Leo (Dark Mage) Personal Skill: Kidnap (Allows use of the Capture command to send a defeated generic enemy or boss to your castle's prison) Growths (With Default Class): HP: 40% (40) STR: 35% (45) MAG: 20% (25) SKL: 40% (50) SPD: 50% (70) LCK: 30% (30) DEF: 30% (30) RES: 40% (60) Niles! Niles is a unit I use pretty much every time I play this game. A big part of his utility comes from his personal skill, but even without that he's a solidly good guy. First of all, Kidnap. The Capture mechanic is not really something I tend to make much use of, and I'll probably explain it more later, but if you want to make use of it then it can be game changing. Niles is uniquely capable of capturing enemy units and sending them to your castle's prison where they can later be recruited with either bribes of food & minerals or spamming the once-per-chapter (or change in time of day) Persuade command. Captured units don't get to keep their inventories or enemy-only skills, but they do keep everything else, including the boosted stats and skills they get from higher difficulties. Most captured generics are merely okay, but there's a few stand-outs like the infamous Rallyman, a Master of Arms with 4 different rally skills. Otherwise Niles is just a thief with the valueable niche of being the only person in Conquest's earlygame who can use bows without a class change. Bows aren't always good weapons in Fire Emblem games, but Conquest's big focus on player phase combat and relative lack of useful 1-2 range weapons make archers actually useful. Bows also have an advantage against knives in the weapon triangle, which makes archers your best shot for taking down the always-troublesome ninja enemies, especially since the only other weapon with WTA against them (axes) tend to be somewhat inaccurate. Until Kaze comes along Niles will be your only unit with Locktouch, so you'll be bringing him along for most chapters anyway. Statwise he's pretty okay. His bases are solid and his high speed will carry him for a while, although his bulk isn't great and his low luck can make him susceptible to crits and the occassional miss. If you're not using Arthur then he is imo your second best candidate for Goddess Icons. His attack is a little low, but his decent magic growth and the existence of the Shining Bow means he can promote into an Adventurer if his strength stat gets screwed (or his magic stat gets blessed), although in most cases I'd prefer to have the mobility and physical stats of a Bow Knight. Niles is perfectly fine in his base class. He's functional as a Dark Mage but I personally wouldn't make him one unless you really want to. Fighter is a great class in terms of skills so it's worth dipping into briefly just to get HP + 5 and Rally Strength once he's promoted and close to level 5, and even Gamble isn't awful in Niles's hands if you want that. He can also marry Mozu for access to the Archer class, which in addition to fixing his accuracy problems can also give him either a flying mount as a Kinshi or excellent combat stats as a Sniper. Otherwise you can leave him as he his and never reclass him and he'll do just fine. Pros
Cons
My Rating: I literally cannot hear one of his combat quotes as anything but "Oh, holy gently caress..." midnight lasagna fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 14:58
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I seriously do not get Fates' choices of what Awakening characters to bring back. I found a list of them and my mental reaction was "rear end in a top hat, rear end in a top hat, amusing but one note, nonentity, rear end in a top hat..."
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Oct 6, 2021 15:18
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What list? It's literally three characters from Awakening, and we've already seen one of them.
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Oct 6, 2021 15:34
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Cythereal posted:I seriously do not get Fates' choices of what Awakening characters to bring back. I found a list of them and my mental reaction was "rear end in a top hat, rear end in a top hat, amusing but one note, nonentity, rear end in a top hat..." They picked all the popular ones besides Lucina OP, idk what’s there to get even if you don’t like them. and there’s even unused data to suggest they were gonna put her in but didn’t want another swordie. Which means they were just cowards who didn’t want to have axe Lucina in the game. Edit: golden bubble posted:What list? It's literally three characters from Awakening, and we've already seen one of them. There’s also the legally distinct child units that are reincarnations of some, so six total.
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Oct 6, 2021 15:49
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golden bubble posted:What list? It's literally three characters from Awakening, and we've already seen one of them. There's six if you assume they're including the doppelgangers as well.
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Oct 6, 2021 15:50
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If all you want out of Odin is Vantage Ophelia then it isn't wrong to seal him immediately and glue him to either Elise or Felicia. Another reason I cane to like Bow Knight Felicia is because you can pass Shurikenbreaker to Ophelia early and really trivialize large portions of the mid and late game. Arthur is also on the list of parents you want to pass down skills, since Elbow Room is always active on fliers and Percy can't get it himself without marriage. Also anyone you want Quick Draw on since Mozu can only pass it to her spouse and friends. Niles is the only natural Outlaw in the 1st gen, and his daughter is the only one of the second gen. Chests and doors are rare enough that you don't really need more than 1 or 2. FoolyCharged posted:There's six if you assume they're including the doppelgangers as well. They do count. There was a popularity poll in Japan during the development of Fates. The 3 most popular 2nd gen units, barring Lucina, were brought back as 1st gen units for Conquest; the 3 most popular 1st gen units, barring Chrom and Robin, were brought back as 2nd gen reincarnations for Birthright. If the polls had been worldwide we may have ended up with different results, but the Conquest trio probably would have remained the same. Conquest made me like Odin and especially Laslow a lot more since I rarely bother with kids. I still don't like Selena, but she's better here than Awakening. I just don't like the tsundere archetype.
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Oct 6, 2021 16:20
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midnight lasagna posted:Ophelia, who with a good enough mother can easily become a better Odin who joins just in time for him to stopping being useful. Spotted a typo in there. Aside that, Odin is awesome and I will hear no argument to the contrary. 
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Oct 6, 2021 17:51
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Odin is great as a character so it is a real shame that he sucks so bad as a unit. Your pros amounted to "has access to a broken spell" and "gives you Ophelia". Which, being good because using him gets you someone gooder is lol.
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Oct 6, 2021 17:53
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They held a popularity poll to determine who got the Beach & Kimono CGs for awakening's dlc Chrom, Gaius, Tharja, Cordelia for the beach/gen 1 Lucina, Severa, Owain, Inigo for the hot springs/gen 2 not a coincidence that, the 2 lords aside, the 6 awakening cameos were who they were
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Oct 6, 2021 18:09
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More evidence in the "I just do not understand the Fire Emblem fanbase," I suppose. Only two of the people on that list I'm anything more than indifferent towards, and there's a few I positively despise.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:19
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Walla posted:Niles is the only natural Outlaw in the 1st gen, and his daughter is the only one of the second gen. :Boots:
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Oct 6, 2021 18:22
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FoolyCharged posted::Boots: I honestly forgot him. Though probably because he's a Corrin only support and I tend not to think of them at all.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:58
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To briefly talk about the guys that won't be showing up in Conquest and why they were brought back beyond the pure numbers. Cordelia and Tharja are both popular from Awakening for a few reason: As units, they're both absolute killers representing the strongest of the Gen 1 generic units from that game, with Cordelia being hard hitting and incredibly mobile and Tharja being nigh unkillable. I'm often one to say that if a unit is immediately powerful in a game like fire emblem, that players will often come to like them for how well they're doing in game as well as their personality. They both have distinct and well liked designs. Tharja, before she got flanderised in stuff like Heroes, being a bookish goth girl and Cordelia projecting a huge degree of confidence from her design. And thirdly their supports. Tharja has surprisingly good supports with the majority of the cast, especially stuff like her supports with Lon'Qu (obvious issues around how future Tharja treats Noire notwithstanding.) Cordelia on the other hand has tremendously variable support quality, but crucially has one of the absolute best Robin C-A/S chains in the game, which means the support most people were most likely to encounter with her ended up being her best. To this day Cordelia and Tharja are the two most popular gen 1 girls from popularity polls in Fire Emblem heroes. (Discounting ATiki who'll occasionally pop in to bump Cordelia down to 3) Gaius remains more of a mystery. Crucially he stands out. Awakening's gen 1 men are a fairly bland bunch all things told. Chrom and Robin-M get a lot of the limelight from the fanbase because of how well portrayed their relationship is across the game. But among the rest, Gaius has a distinctive design and personality with his sweet tooth on full display in both. He's effective enough as a unit and he doesn't have a bad support in sight. Just as importantly, this was a poll after the Japanese release of the game, so Henry and Gregor, characters who are adored in the West, didn't have the benefit of their amazing translations.
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Oct 6, 2021 19:07
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Personally, I consider Virion far and away my favorite man in the Gen 1 ensemble of Awakening. He's not a good unit, no, but to me he's funny without being a total joke and he gets some interesting characterization and depth to him, particularly with lady Robin. Tharja is quite possibly the character I loathe most in all of Awakening. I've noticed I tend to intensely dislike characters I read as overly clingy to the protagonist, like Tharja in Awakening and all the lords in Three Houses (I think Chrom in Awakening handles it well), and my first game of Awakening I was running Robin as a dark mage focused character so Tharja was doubly redundant and offered nothing I needed. But, I suppose I'm just very weird in my tastes compared to the norm in the fanbase as usual.
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Oct 6, 2021 19:18
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Walla posted:I honestly forgot him. Though probably because he's a Corrin only support and I tend not to think of them at all. To be fair they only give +1 move in this one.
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Oct 6, 2021 20:10
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My contribution to the Awakening discussion is that I am weirdly fond of the Awakening kids that migrated to this game even if I think it's weird that they're there. The Birthright clones on the other hand I really don't like, with the possible exception of Caeldori since I think she plays really well off of her father. The other two are just wastes of good potential parent-child dynamics. In a better world Hayato would have an Oni Savage son who's like 7 foot tall and muscled as hell for the sole purpose of making him feel inadequate.Walla posted:Part of what makes it great is that Silas is one of the few people who can get those skills. Outside of Corrin, your only other options are Xander and Laslow and both require A+ with the other as well as marriage to Mozu. theshim posted:Thanks to your offhand comment I now know that you're naming your images. This is a terrible curse because now I have to know what each one is called. I forgot to mention the spirit dust thing but yeah that's a point in his favour. I think I gave Camilla all of mine one time so she could use her mixed stats a bit better but I don't know how good of a decision that actually is. Faillen Angel posted:honestly i think the best "pure" mage in gen 1 is hayato and that's real sad considering his whopping level 1 start in br SloppyDoughnuts posted:Odin is great as a character so it is a real shame that he sucks so bad as a unit. Your pros amounted to "has access to a broken spell" and "gives you Ophelia". Which, being good because using him gets you someone gooder is lol.
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Oct 6, 2021 20:23
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  Time for a brief diversion! A girl in a "nearby" village that's not even in the same country as us needs saving, so save her we must. But not before I mess around in my castle a bit.  "Limited funds" is actually a lie, you can farm infinite gold by repeatedly giving food to your weird fish dragon thing. You can only give food after either each chapter or waiting for a certain amount of irl time to pass though so it would take a lot of waiting or a lot of 3DS clock fiddling-with.  Oh and you can also get infinite gold by selling the items you get from the lottery shop which I just bought. There are 3 tiers of prizes: Bronze gives food and minerals, Silver gives low-rarity weapons and items, Gold gives high-rarity ones. Just like feeding your fish you can only do this between chapters or after waiting a while. I agonised over whether using this was "cheating" for a short while but honestly who even cares. I crave the thrill of chance!!! This was the Fire Emblem gatcha before Heroes, except for the part where you don't spend any money or even "gamble" anything  Silas thinks he'll be fired for buying weapons from the his own shop, but I'll actually fire him for not discounting lances even though he knows I want them. Aren't we friends, Silas? Surely you can give your old friend a half price Javelin...   May as well buy a Steel Sword while they're cheap. Nobody can use it just yet, but you've got to buy things when they're cheap, you know? Oh no this is how they rip you off isn't it Also got a Nosferatu tome for Odin. I don't even know if he'll be a longterm unit or not but at the very least I'd like access to his daughter's paralogue for the cool tomes it gives.     B supports for Corrin/Silas & Arthur/Elise, C supports for the other two. Odin wants to be a sword user again but I won't let him.  One girl with a stick versus an army of Faceless. Does she even need saving? I've seen enough action movies to know she'll hand every single of of them their own rear end.  I could have done this chapter anytime after 7 but there are reasons to delay it, namely that it is free EXP and you might not have the units you want to give free EXP when you first unlock it. The enemies are a little low leveled so they're not worth a tonne, but weapon EXP and support levels will always rise at the same rate no matter who you're fighting.  This is not a Conquest map which means none of the enemies have personal skills. They are, however, a bit stronger than the Faceless in Chapter 7 despite being the exact same level. So I guess it's not quite free EXP.  "They slaughtered the Ice Tribe and now they're coming to recruit me!"  Corrin is the only one who can recruit Mozu, so she pairs up with Silas and heads for her, hopefully activating VoF along the way. This chapter should be a good place to raise her sword rank a little.  Meanwhile Elise & Odin block the bridge for extraction of delicious EXP. I'm not going to marry the pair of them even though Elise/Odin is one of those great pairings everyone does. I'm also probably not going to marry Odin & Effie unless I decide that Odin's not working out and I don't care about Ophelia being good either. Effie might have great growths but she does not make very magically adept children.  Behold, the power of Nosferatu!!! ...he's good i swear  Mozu's safe for the first few turns but the enemies will start to aggro around turn 6 or 7. Thankfully Silas was able to break through this little blockade with a crit, but I had plenty of time anyway.  Unlike Donnel, who gets a heroic tale of a farm boy taking up arms to defend his mother, Mozu has her entire family slaughtered before her eyes and then joins up with the army of the country that created the monsters that killed them in the first place. This poor girl has it rough.  Mozu is like Donnel from Awakening, except either much better or much worse depending on your view. She doesn't turn into an unkillable juggernaut like he can, but that's also a thing nearly every unit can do in Awakening. Mozu will remain fragile even when raised but she has a genuine niche as a good Archer if reclassed, and so long as you can spare her a Heart Seal she can be a lot more self-sufficient at lower levels than Donnel. She also gets absolutely destroyed by the enemies like Donnel does, but at least there's no weapon triangle disadvantage to make her miss!  Steadily replacing her axes with better ones is how Elise will get stronger before promotion seeing as her strength growth doesn't exist. The shift from Iron to Bronze should help her a lot!  Niles doesn't appreciate this open field of 1 range enemies quite as much as the rest of the army. At least he looks very cool here.  Don't worry Mozu, Niles is your family now! And he can capture lots of generic units to replace all your friends that died.  Chapter's halfway done and only now does someone level up. I certainly can't complain about this level.  As you can probably guess I'm trying to support Niles & Mozu, but unfortunately she's a bit of a crappy support partner thanks to the awful pair-up bonuses that Villagers give. She might fix his accuracy issues a little but she's not helping his damage output... It might be better to keep them unpaired so Niles can still benefit from dual strikes...   Well I've reached the boss but somehow I don't think Elise or Odin will be defeating it any time soon, and the rest of my army is halfway across the map. Maybe by the time they've reached it Elise will have finally chipped the boss to death.  Elise is a Troubadour in a Wyvern Rider costume.  Lunge is like Shelter in that it's a great skill that I am too dumb to use. It gives you the option to swap position with your foe after initiating combat, which is great for extending your own movement range and messing up enemy formations. It is also good for making you tear your hair out when the enemy uses 5 lunge units in a row to take your defensive tank for a ride across the entire map and dump them in front of a super strong enemy that kills them.  Good job Odin! That boss that Elise spent like 6 turns weakening didn't stand a chance.  no res terrible unit 0/10  I could have spent 30 turns grinding up Mozu but I didn't. Know that I totally would have if I were planning on using her though.  None of this chapter makes sense in Conquest, but I guess it's good we saved some random little girl. Mozu having access to Hoshidan classes is part of her appeal and all but part of me thinks it would have been cool to have a Nohrian villager class that uses swords and promotes to either Paladin or Dark Knight. Then again I did also spend time theorising a Clown class that uses Tomes and Knives so maybe I shouldn't be allowed to add classes to Fire Emblem games.  ...okay i'm sorry mozu i burst out laughing irl. HAPPY BIRTHDAY EVERYBODY YOU KNOW AND LOVE IS DEAD Next time: Lunatic mode stops pulling its punches
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Oct 6, 2021 20:24
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Let me guess, it's never going to come up that Mozu just joined up with the leaders of the empire that got her home and family massacred? That would probably make for awkward supports with the Nohrian royals, I suppose. Though my immediate instinct would be to pair her with Xander. Congratulations, Mozu. You are now the queen-to-be of the empire that got your home and family wiped off the map. Don't you feel special?
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Oct 6, 2021 20:55
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Niles tends to have serious issues with durability and killing power in my runs, and his niche as a mage killer is undercut by weapon triangle disadvantage meaning he takes a lot of hits back. He also only really has Arthur's A+ to expand his class selection, as he's badly wasted as a dark mage. Overall he's not one of my favorites, and Nina...well, let's just say she depends wildly on her mother to determine how good she is. Mozu is cool though. Does need babying, and compared to Donnel she suffers doubly thanks to not being able to reclass and gain 5-8 points in every stat and her growths with Aptitude merely being great instead of ludicrous, but she's generally a worthy investment for me. Doubt I would go for it on Lunatic, though, she'll have a lot of trouble getting up to a point where she isn't constantly exploding. Archer access in Conquest is real good and she can pass it along to quite a few people who would also greatly appreciate it, and she makes one of the best moms thanks to being able to pass down Aptitude. My first run of each route I made her Queen, because it amused me to do so, and because she deserves it.
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Oct 6, 2021 22:16
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I've soured on Mozu as a unit. She just takes too much investment compared to others. If you Heart Seal her immediately then she's much more capable, but she'll still want tonics and forges to be competent for several levels still. She grows into an insane unit if you put in the work, but I prefer units who are immediately useful. Passing on Archer to Niles, Effie and even Nyx can be great, but it's a shame her kids are stuck with Villager. On the subject of Camilla's magic, a magic tonic in Chapter 10 is enough to let her 1 turn every single Oni Savage in the south on Hard, and it should still be true here.
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Oct 6, 2021 23:45
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midnight lasagna posted:My contribution to the Awakening discussion is that I am weirdly fond of the Awakening kids that migrated to this game even if I think it's weird that they're there. The Birthright clones on the other hand I really don't like, with the possible exception of Caeldori since I think she plays really well off of her father. The other two are just wastes of good potential parent-child dynamics. In a better world Hayato would have an Oni Savage son who's like 7 foot tall and muscled as hell for the sole purpose of making him feel inadequate. One of the only good things to come out of Revelation is giving the incredibly cruel option of having Severa/Selena end up Caeldori's mom.
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Oct 6, 2021 23:50
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Rhajat is a neat character because of how she compares to herself pre-Localization, as well as Tharja pre-and-post flanderization, but I can agree that her being Hayato's kid is a waste. Meanwhile, as someone who really hated Severa in Awakening, Selena is refreshingly...tame. She's less aggro and more on the defensive in her supports, and that makes her more entertaining. Shame about her stats, though.
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Oct 7, 2021 00:42
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 Aw yeah, Berries. Berries increase magic when cooked into a dish. The lottery will be one of my only ways of obtaining ingredients not native to my castle, so bronze tier rewards are actually what I want the most.  Actually capturing enemy units requires a place to put them in, so we must build a Prison. I'd say it's less cruel to capture enemy soldiers than to kill them, but in this game we don't actually kill anybody half the time. So we're just collecting soldiers like they're Pokemon because we can.  The EXP gained from using staves is dependent on the level different between who you're healing and who's doing the healing. Spamming heal staves to level up units stops being particularly effective at higher levels and heal staves are expensive so I'm going to try and not waste them when I don't need to.  Okay fine I'll use my statboosters. Niles's luck is quite low but this should keep away those nasty 1 or 2% crits he tends to face in the early game. Given Niles's irreverent nature and status as the army's main pervert it's best not to think about what he's going to do with said icon.     B support for Corrin & Silas, C support for everyone else. I wanted to make a joke about a particularly buggy FE game for that first screenshot, but honestly I think this series is pretty bug free. I guess the GBA games have the mine glitch?       Here's the stats of every unit in the army to have leveled up so far. On the whole, I feel like my units are doing better than average? I think my Corrin is a little slow and my Silas is a little physically fragile but they seem to be doing well in every other area.  Not included with them are the stats of Mozu, who is not getting used but is getting an analysis: Mozu Villager (HS: Archer) Heart Seal Classes: Effie (Knight), Nyx (Dark Mage) Personal Skill: Forager (Recover 20% of max HP at start of turn if on Woods, Mountain, Waste, or Field terrain) Growths* (With Base Class): HP: 40% (50) STR: 50% (60) MAG: 15% (15) SKL: 60% (70) SPD: 65% (75) LCK: 55% (75) DEF: 45% (55) RES: 40% (40) *With Aptitude's 10% boost Mozu is this game's villager/trainee archetype, which is to say a helpless child with atrocious base stats who when forced to fight will grow stronger at an incredibly fast pace. Or well I guess she might not be a child? The localisation of Fates aged every character up an adult, I'm not sure how old she was originally. If you've ever played Awakening then don't expect Mozu to function much like Donnel. Villager is an actual class in this game with competent bases and promotion options, rather than a joke option you're meant to reclass out of the instant you can. This means you can keep Mozu as one all the way up to level 20 and promote her into an actually good class that uses lances, but it also means that unlike Donnel Mozu won't suddenly become great the moment you reclass her. She is also unlike Donnel in that even with her high growths she's still got the stats of a glass cannon, so unless you reclass her into something bulky she'll always be strong and fast yet fragile, unlike Donnel who will soon turn into a giant ball of capped stats. I still think she's way better than Donnel is though, at least in Conquest! Donnel is a unit that starts off bad and ends up good in a game where every unit ends up good but most don't start off bad, but in CQ Mozu has a proper niche of her own thanks to her access to four different Hoshidan classes. As an Archer she'll quickly grow into a unit with amazing power and speed when attacking on player phase, and even passable enemy phase thanks to Conquest's love of tight maps full of corridors to attack over. She'll definitely outclass Niles in terms of raw stats once she gets going, although she does have to actually get going which is easier said than done. She can promote into either a Sniper for more sheer power and excellent skills, or a Kinshi Knight for flying mobility and the ability to use lances in exchange for slightly underwhelming stats and a bow weakness. If you keep her as a Villager she can eventually promote into a Merchant to gain access to the Profiteer skill, which gives her a luck% chance of finding Gold Bars at the end of the first 7 turns of a map. Given her high luck stat she's likely to find at least one or two per map, which is helpful in a game with otherwise limited funds. She can also combine the Quick Draw, Bowfaire, Spendthrift, and Life and Death skills from all across her class tree to make a build that does absolutely insane damage in certain situations and straight up one round or one shot bosses if you have the EXP and resources to swap around her class a bunch. Mozu's biggest problem is, as hinted by her paralogue, her Tragic Start. Her bases are awful and her best class option requires spending a Heart Seal on her, something you won't have a lot of for a while. She'll need some combination of tonics, forges, and support partners to do any real damage on her own, and even with a bow to attack safely from a distance she's not going to have an easy time killing anything. Her joining chapter isn't a bad place to feed her EXP considering how little EXP anyone else will get from defeating the underleveled enemies there, but even if you don't care about turncounts or anything it's still a lot of time and effort. But a Mozu who's been chipping away at enemies with her bow should start to come into her own in Chapter 10, conveniently one of the game's hardest chapters where bow users are most appreciated. And even a level 1 Mozu can one shot Pegasus Knights with a forged Bronze Bow and maybe a tonic or a good support partner, so if nothing else you can use that chapter to train her up. As for her reclasses, Knight is very fun if you want a bulkier Mozu, and Dark Mage sucks. Although I did make her one once when I did a silly reclasses run on Normal mode. She wasn't very good but I had a great time using her, and that's the real battle. Oh and Forager is a skill that exists I guess? Situational healing skills are never great, especially on a squishy unit like her, but it's better than nothing. TL;DR: Pros
Cons
My Rating: You're a good apple! midnight lasagna fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 12:40
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You smell like a goat!
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Oct 7, 2021 18:40
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Cythereal posted:Let me guess, it's never going to come up that Mozu just joined up with the leaders of the empire that got her home and family massacred? I've married Mozu and Ryoma before, haven't tried her and Xander yet. I've love to do that but part of Mozu's appeal is how good her children end up and oh my god is Xander's kid a nightmare to recruit. theshim posted:Niles tends to have serious issues with durability and killing power in my runs, and his niche as a mage killer is undercut by weapon triangle disadvantage meaning he takes a lot of hits back. He also only really has Arthur's A+ to expand his class selection, as he's badly wasted as a dark mage. Overall he's not one of my favorites, and Nina...well, let's just say she depends wildly on her mother to determine how good she is. Now I kind of want to make Queen Mozu. Have her enact a law that banes the creation of Faceless because seriously those things are a liability. Walla posted:I've soured on Mozu as a unit. She just takes too much investment compared to others. If you Heart Seal her immediately then she's much more capable, but she'll still want tonics and forges to be competent for several levels still. She grows into an insane unit if you put in the work, but I prefer units who are immediately useful. Passing on Archer to Niles, Effie and even Nyx can be great, but it's a shame her kids are stuck with Villager. I think I did the Camilla thing with an Odin pair-up once, didn't know you could use a tonic and save him for something else. Neat. Faillen Angel posted:Rhajat is a neat character because of how she compares to herself pre-Localization, as well as Tharja pre-and-post flanderization, but I can agree that her being Hayato's kid is a waste.
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Oct 7, 2021 19:52
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  Another day, another location on the map to conquer. The first two chapters were definitely tougher than hard mode, but this is where lunatic mode starts adding new enemies and weapons for the specific purpose of foiling easy solutions that would have worked on lower difficulties.  Just like me, Corrin is suffering for the amusement of others...   Mozu is an optional unit and therefore not accounted for by the chapter's deployment slots. Effie trades away her Bronze Lance to Mozu and hits the bench... I'm not planning on having Mozu attack anyone, but it's generally wise to make sure everybody has a weapon. The reason why she didn't have a weapon is because Silas took her Brass Naginata. If you don't recruit Mozu then you'll be able to deploy your entire army until you reach Chapter 11, which is plenty enough time for a first time player to learn who they do and do not want to use. I do wish they let you bring along Mozu without having to bench someone else. This gets especially annoying in Revelation where Mozu will most likely be the fifth addition to your crappy 4 person army and you still have to get rid of someone to bring her along.  Here we have our first Seize map of the game. The throne and the boss sat upon it are right in the middle of the map which is actually kind of cool. Seize maps are weird in Fates in that literally any of your units can seize the point and end the map. This is most likely because the edition of Casual mode means that you could have your main characters be defeated and still continue playing the map. I don't think I even realised Corrin wasn't the only one who could seize until I had played the game a few times already.  This handy map (image links to the guide I took it from) shows the location of reinforcements that will spawn in on the red squares when we enter the giant green square. Reinforcements in Fates are different from other games in that they are almost always linked to your progression through the map, not the number of turns that have passed. This stops you from waiting out troublesome ambushes, and it also means the game can hit you with some really nasty kaizo traps that can end a run if you're not prepared. They might not be same turn reinforcements but they're still a pain and honestly they're one of my least favourite parts of the game. You can at least block them from appearing if you stand on the stairs (despite what the FE wiki says!), but that doesn't always work for every chapter.   Helpfully labelled by the above image are these two. Nyx is a recruitable unit who will do nothing and be in no danger until spoken to by Corrin, Azura is playable from the start. If you do not realise Azura is playable then she can potentially end up being killed!  Lunatic change number one: this Shining Bow Archer. The Shining Bow deals magical damage instead of physical, and also does a lot more damage in general. The unit who's wielding it has a magic stat above the usual generic enemy value of 0 to make sure they are actually threatening. This change isn't particularly hard to deal with if you know it's there, but it can lead to a dead Effie or Silas if you try luring Archers over the wall with a physical tank holding a Javelin like you could in normal or hard.  There's also this jerk, who's got a basic healing rod as well as an Enfeeble staff. Enfeeble is a ranged staff that hits the target with -4 to every stat, recovering at a rate of 1 point per turn like all debuffs do. She won't move but her range is enough to cover many vital chokepoints or otherwise safe places to lure enemies from.  The most direct entrance to the fort is through 5 decently powerful units, two of which come with Seal Defense. It is usually best to ignore them and go around, optionally baiting them from the back if you want the EXP. Although, hmm, looking at their stats... It would only take a 31 might magic attack to kill this Spear Fighter in one hit, denying him a chance to activate his skill. But who could possibly deal that much damage?  Corrin is only 4 points short. Odin gives 3 from a pair-up, but I think I can reach the magic 31 without a tonic...  Anyway, time to start. Nyx has been reading this thread and she is not happy to hear what people have been saying about her.   Azura has been skipping cutscenes like I have so she doesn't know why she's here either. There's currently a large amount of enemies between us and her, but the game is obviously hinting at something she could do to help us.  It turns out the + 1 might from being next to Elise will push Corrin up to 31 attack without the need for spending any money on tonics. This means I can lure out one spearman and defeat them on enemy phase. Unfortunately reliance on Elise prevents Corrin from standing any closer...  ...the Spear Fighter moves right up to Corrin and does nothing. This is a great introduction to another mechanic of Conquest, which is enemies that will not bother attacking units they cannot damage or hit. The combination of Elise's personal, Jakob's Gentilihomme skill, and the forest tile Corrin's standing on make her too bulky to damage... That's annoying! In fact that's so annoying I'm going to restart and place my units more sensibly.  There we go. 1 damage makes much more sense to go for than 0 and so this brave soldier gleefully rides to his demise. That's... 1 enemy out of 4 dealt with!  Azura begins her stealth mission towards that chest in the room above her. For some reason they decided to imprison her with a Chest Key, but you could always pretend it's like a hair pin or something. Azura is the type of mysterious girl who would know how to pick a lock.  In my last playthrough of my game I was able to take out every single one of these enemies with an Effie holding a Javelin who had procced defense and HP every single level. Both that solution and my high damage magical Corrin ones aren't really as likely to work if you didn't have as good luck with stat growth RNG...  Silas sure is a strong boy. I'm hoping he can put that strength to good use in Chapter 10, maybe even one-shot a Ninja or two.  Corrin then ruins my whole strategy by whiffing a 90% and getting her defense sealed anyway. It happens...  Thankfully the rest of my army was able to clean up almost every other combatant, leaving only a single spearman who can't kill anyone on his turn.   Another uncharacteristically bulky level for Niles! Please keep those up. He also grabs Movement + 1, a skill that gives... one extra point of movement. Obviously it is very useful.  The lone spearman predictably goes for the guy who can't fight back, failing to damage him but somehow sealing his defense anyway because skills are jerks.  Azura manages to reclaim her stolen goods. There is one extremely bad enemy in this chapter whose stats are low enough for Azura to use this weapon against him.  He will patrol the hallways near Azura in a fixed pattern. Unlike every other generic he does not have maxed weapon rank. On my last playthrough I captured him because I thought it would be funny to own the worst unit in all of Conquest. And it was!  This is not that guy but Silas does annihilate him in one hit. Next time pair up with a guy who gives you defense!  Arthur uses his powers as a lightning rod for misfortune by standing in range of the Enfeeble Shrine Maiden who will gladly waste its uses against him. She has four in total, all of which can be wasted like this. Units will not target somebody who has been recently hit with an Enfeeble however so if you do want to turtle through a cleric who's using it then you'll have to cycle between a couple of targets.  Uusually I go south instead of east from the start, so Nyx is just kinda stood there waiting for someone to notice her. Normally she'll tell you you can break down the wall north of her after recruitment, but in this case I'm breaking it down to recruit her so she won't bother.  This is the purpose of Azura's stealth infiltration: turning on the sprinkler system to distract the guards. Or melt them, in this case. This dragon vein will hurt everybody, not just the enemies, but that's no issue here. It will however not effect the defensive support partners of units standing in it, so those paired up spearmen will switch to their full health buddy when they go to attack me.  I cannot reach the boss of this chapter yet, but he's nevertheless now relevant because of his Rally Defense skill. He'll use his every turn to boost the bulk of the archers in his throne room, making it hard to beat them through the walls. Compounded with the Enfeeble cleric, you'll struggle to hurt them at all. It is however nice to be rid of them now rather than later so I will suffer through the slow and painful process of luring them out.  Jakob level  I create an optimal formation to bait out Archers while the rest of my gang recruits Nyx. I was sort of hoping I could beat this chapter without turtling through all the Enfeeble uses but the way it's going I seem to be doing that anyway.  Now that Azura's done all the damage she can, I want her to head towards the rest of my party. She can't reach them without going through enemies that will kill her in one round of combat but she can at least get a little closer.  Nyx is yet another "looks like a little girl but is actually a legal adult and like a thousand years old" character. Her design is nowhere near as gross as Nowi's though, she does at least look like she could be an adult. When I first saw her I just thought she was small and grouchy and not cursed to be forever young.  Anyway, here she is, the infamous Nyx! She's decently fast and pretty powerful, although compared to my RNG blessed Odin that's a little hard to see. Otherwise if a stat isn't speed or magic she's not interested. She is... not very good. Incidentally the lore behind her is she's an incredibly gifted mage who accidentally cursed herself to never age, something she's not very happy about. As a character she's actually quite interesting, and unlike Nowi who is a 1,000 year old baby, Nyx is a cranky old woman who looks like a teenager. She's a bit less gross than this type of character usually is.  At some point somebody is going to have to venture into this meat grinder corridor. A lot of the Spear Fighters have Seal Def so the Enfeeble being gone or not barely even matters. All of them will aggro when you enter their range so you have to be prepared to commit to your assualt.   Niles eats the last Enfeeble and shows you what your combat looks like when somebody takes away all your stats. At least it's gone now.  Azura could trigger enemy reinforcements if you're not careful with where you put her. 9 units suddenly appearing on the map will overwhelm your entire army and absolutely get her killed!   She has no choice... but to fight... It's the only fight she'll ever win so may as well let her.  Okay fine, time to engage the enemy in the most cowardly way possible. I could be more aggressive but seal skills that lower stats mid-phase shut down the part of my brain that does numbers so I'm not convinced I wouldn't screw up my maths.   ...okay that wasn't so bad. I couldn't get somebody in the chokepoint but I did manage to keep all my squishy units out of range.  Azura's one and only kill. It' a shame that tight corridors force a specific angle that makes it hard to see anything but her weird wedding dress veil thing.   I had jokes for both of these levels, but you don't see the quotes when I only post the bottom screen so there wouldn't be context for either of them. Booo.  This skill lowers the resistance of enemies around you. In most cases it's a slightly better Magic + 2.  At last, Azura is here! Victory dance to celebrate! I don't think she gets to talk to anybody until the map ends.   Occupying two sets of stairs lets me trigger the reinforcements without dumping half the population of Hoshido on top of me. The four spear fighters that did spawn however are still a little tricky...   Dual weapons reverse the weapon triangle and double its effects, and there's also a jerk with a magic weapon too. At least these weapons actually come from Hoshido unlike the Shining Bow and the Enfeeble staff.   Niles does Niles things and gets a Niles level. Don't be fooled by the last two, this is what his levels usually look like.  Jakob does a Jakob thing and gets... these stats are all meaningless to me, all he's doing is healing!  It took my whole army to contain four guys, and one of them is still alive on enemy phase. This is why I chose to not let the others spawn!  Strength does matter a little for Azura. Since she's holding a weapon she can partake in dual strikes, and as a Dancer she'll often be standing near your other units. It's pretty hilarious when she does manage to assist in kills!  Oh yeah right the treasure. Some people choose to enter the fort from this direction instead of the other two. Maybe it's a better strategy?  HP, nice. I feel as if she's slacking on the magic front a little.  You only get two of these staves in the entirity of Conquest and you really, really do not want to miss a single one. Annoyingly enough, they're most useful in the game's final map, which means I tend to not use them at all until literally the last possible moment. But you really do want to make sure you grab the chests they're in!   Time for the boss! This guy sucks. Most bosses get special enemy-only weapons that are 1-2 range with no penalties at all. Haitaka has Seal Defense and he's on a throne, making him annoying to hit and dangerous to engage twice with the same unit.  I want to throw my Pokeball at him but attempting to capture a unit lowers Niles's already shaky accuracy, and he's barely able to hurt him at all! This will be a team effort.  Arthur participates in a dual guard and becomes even more angular. What a hero.  Odin can take a single hit, allowing him to do the Dark Mage strategy of standing next to an enemy and making them feel so uncomfortable that they become easier to hit. That's basically what the Heartseeker skill is.   Time for the winning throw!      Now this is Elise's fort!  I guess the Hoshidans aren't perfect after all. This does seem especially petty, but I'd hate to have to fight an enemy Dancer.  Just jangle a pair of keys in front of her face until she gets tired Azura. Next time: I do an invasion to put off Chapter 10.
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Oct 7, 2021 19:52
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midnight lasagna posted:She's a bit less gross than this type of character usually is. And yet, every s-rank of hers I read on the wiki has her being insecure about her appearance and her husband-to-be going "Nah you're beautiful and I'm attracted to you just the way you are." 
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Oct 7, 2021 20:27
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You're incorrect in how Casual Mode works. If your Lord gets taken down, you still lose (or a Mila's Turnwheel/Divine Pulse is forcefully triggered if you have any). I'm not sure why Seize was changed, I imagine it's just to make it less annoying, since ferrying the Lord to a specific spot was a pain and genuinely added little to nothing beyond tedium to gameplay.
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Oct 7, 2021 20:48
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SloppyDoughnuts posted:Odin is great as a character so it is a real shame that he sucks so bad as a unit. Your pros amounted to "has access to a broken spell" and "gives you Ophelia". Which, being good because using him gets you someone gooder is lol. I appreciate Odin as a unit because in the places he's useful he lets me not have to think. There's so many things that go on in some maps that with Odin and Nosferatu I just have to make sure he can survive the next turn, and it takes much less mental math to do so. The sustain that provides means I can just let him handle a portion of a map and place my mental energy elsewhere. He does often need tonics and a pair up to pull it off, but that's true of everyone. midnight lasagna posted:Huh, after reading this I guess Nyx would actually like all the Archer skills a lot. Hell even a Dark Mage Nyx would love Sure Shot so she could actually hit things. Probably wouldn't be too much pain to suffer through a couple of levels in it if she had a magic bow... Now I feel silly for making a joke about it in my analysis! Also, I'm disappointed you didn't use Odin to bait units on turn 1. Standing in the woods with Elise next to him he could have baited both an Archer and Spear Fighter and survived.
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Oct 8, 2021 00:59
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Blaze Dragon posted:You're incorrect in how Casual Mode works. If your Lord gets taken down, you still lose (or a Mila's Turnwheel/Divine Pulse is forcefully triggered if you have any). I'm not sure why Seize was changed, I imagine it's just to make it less annoying, since ferrying the Lord to a specific spot was a pain and genuinely added little to nothing beyond tedium to gameplay. No...? This is 100% not true in Fates or 3H. It's true in Awakening and Echoes though, which is doubly annoying when you have two lords to drag around.
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Oct 8, 2021 01:51
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Faillen Angel posted:No...? This is 100% not true in Fates or 3H. It's true in Awakening and Echoes though, which is doubly annoying when you have two lords to drag around. I'm genuinely not sure about Fates but it is definitely true in 3H. I've had it happen, just had Byleth go down then bam, auto-Divine Pulse.
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Oct 8, 2021 02:03
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There are maps where Byleth and your house leader dying is a loss condition, but this is not consistently the case in things such as paralogues.
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Oct 8, 2021 02:05
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Oh hey, it's Azura. She's genuinely the squishiest Dancer in the series, but has bizarrely monstrous offensive growths if you feel like living dangerously. Kinda doesn't matter because she's just going to do Dancer things. And then there's Nyx, who can charitably be described as "Elise but worse in every way". Still, you can also get Haitaka here and Rally Defense is fantastic, so this map's got what to say for itself recruitment-wise.
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Oct 8, 2021 04:33
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As bad as the writing in this game is, I actually like the writing on this map. Azura got screwed by your defection, so the Hoshidans try to kill her. She's fleeing/hiding, and has to sneak to a chest to grab a weapon so she can fend for herself. It's reasonable map-based story-telling, which is neat to see. I think Conquest overloads on the gimmicky maps, but there are some real interesting ideas that were executed competently enough in the process. Far better than Birthright, which just goes for over-huge tedious maps that get boring really quickly. I used Azura in dual-attacks a LOT. Mainly because it was funny, but her also being actually reasonably competent at it. Still remember her most common combat bark. "Look me in the eyes!". Sadly, I never finished Conquest, which I find a pity. I blame playing it right after Birthright and the hot steaming garbage that was. So the parts of Conquest which were similar to Birthright had way less tolerance from me, and I just kind of said 'gently caress it'.
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Oct 8, 2021 10:57
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