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Walla posted:Kana is fine. People were lamenting the poor move and speed of knights and Kana is basically a more mobile knight. Their personal skill means they want to exclusively use dragonstones, and with the right parent they can have a serviceable amount of defense and speed. Felicia and Gunter, both of who have... issues. Being Silas' kid, Sophie of course also has it as an option.
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Oct 16, 2021 11:07
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| # ¿ May 14, 2024 19:14 |
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Eh, they're good in isolation but not great genetics wise outside of a busted Ophelia. Camilla's the only interesting one of the lot and that's only because Wyvern. Like I could not think of one kid where Sakura is a remotely optimal mother other than maaaaybe Mitama or a Flame Shuriken Asugi?
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Oct 17, 2021 02:00
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Walla posted:Even then I think a +Magic Corrin or Orochi is better. Orochi has her own flaws (aside from needing to play Revelation, which is its own flaw), mainly that she kinda kills speed. Ophelia can take the hit okay, but otherwise Elise!Ophelia does the job pretty much as well and really who else are you gonna give Elise to, Dwyer?
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Oct 17, 2021 13:40
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I really like Benny. He's a nice guy, and probably one of my favourite members of the 'gentle giant' archetypes (though Mordecai still takes the trophy for me there). Speedrunners and those who like efficiency will dump on him, but he still works really well for doing what Knights do (choking a point), which you do quite a bit on Conquest playing normally. The hilarious (though not remotely recommended option) is to marry him to Azura to give him Pegasus Knight, which keeps his Lance rank and an almost usable Speed growth (he can actually double the final boss with almost no RNG this way with heavy resource investment, which is funny). The only things I'd dock him on are that his supports with Nyx are a little weird and anyone who can marry Peri are an unfortunate victim of the system. But I like his support with Charlotte, it's very comfy.
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Oct 18, 2021 19:27
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Yeah Keaton's a pretty solid tank and can be run alongside or in place of Benny. He can't use Javelins or Hand Axes, but he's got much better movement and natural Beastbane is helpful instead of having to shuffle around effective weaponry. Since he passes on Fighter via marriage, he's pretty fun to turn some of your girls into Charlottes. It's a shame that he and Benny have a A+ support but neither profit much from it; Benny already has Fighter, and Keaton (much like most units) doesn't get much out of the Knight line unless you really want Wary Fighter, and even then it's probably not worth shuffling in and out of the line for it.
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Oct 20, 2021 02:12
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The thing that Birthright kinda glosses over is that since Corrin and Azura never go there, Gunter is kinda stuck there... forever.
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Oct 21, 2021 04:12
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Honestly, I like Shura and it's a shame so many people kill him off. Conquest is also his best route, as he comes in too late for Birthright and Revelation is just a mess (he does okay there, but given his lack of supports and Revelation being the 'make all those characters have special interactions with each other!' route, not sure why you'd use the Corrinsexuals much).Bogart posted:Shura comes in with lock pick and stave utility, and +1 move. He can replace an underperforming Niles no problem in 98% of situations (barring the capture of rallyman). His biggest issue is lack of supports. I honestly use them both for Ninja hell. Even a falling behind Niles will put in work there unless he got extremely Str-screwed (which, to be fair, isn't that unlikely with Niles). And yeah Shura is a good utility unit that just gets screwed over by lack of supports. Of all the Corrinsexuals he's arguably the most useful too (other than maybe Reina).
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Oct 21, 2021 21:02
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I think the only unit I've tried Merchant with is Midori, and that's because she pretty much starts in it. Otherwise 'slow archer' isn't a huge appeal unless you just want to devote a unit to dueling ninjas (who are gonna outspeed you most of the time anyway).
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Oct 22, 2021 04:29
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Mozu's biggest issue to me is that her HP is bad. Like, really, really bad. Donnel at least had a ripping HP growth and bonus levels to maximize them because of the way Second Seals work in Awakening. Mozu is probably down there with Azura in terms of survival chances, and she honestly doesn't get much better. Archer helps her a bit, but like... I've never made her work. On Birthright you have better archers, on Conquest she doesn't have the bulk to tank ninjas.
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Oct 23, 2021 05:14
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Ophelia generally stands out because magic is good but the standard Conquest mages other than Camilla all have some issues. Odin lacks power, Leo lacks speed, and Nyx couldn't hit the blind side of a barn. Heck, even Hoshidan mages have problems; Hayato has a bit of babying to do and Orochi is shockingly slow. Ophelia being basically a standard glass cannon mage actually makes her pretty solid. I don't know if she's the best kid, but she's arguably the easiest to use because she has potential right off the bat (unless you saddle her with like Selena as a mom, who kinda kills most of her strengths without giving much in return other than Speed), and fresh magic units are generally easier to slot into a team.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:13
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Yeah, of the pairing-specific class gets, not counting Corrin, Nyx!Nina is probably one of the weakest ones. The others are, to my recollection, Kaden!Kana (for Kitsune), Keaton!Kana (for Wolfskin), Jakob!Shigure (for Wyvern) and Beruka!Percy (for Sky Knight).
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Oct 25, 2021 20:38
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As a quick note, both Shura and Saizo have dialogue for fighting Kotaro (Kotaro is the one that wiped out Shura's old clan). Only Saizo has victory dialogue against him though. It's actually kinda disappointing that Kaze doesn't care about Kotaro at all. The map isn't overly difficult for me, just long. Niles and Leo can tank, Camilla and Xander can check, and you can also stick Benny with a Javelin somewhere to choke a point.
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Oct 27, 2021 03:31
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If Xander really wanted 'I don't care if you're bad at your job, I just want you to be good at fighting'... Felicia is right there.
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Oct 28, 2021 23:22
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Well 2nd gen marriages in Awakening have no mechanical benefits other than the S Rank support bonuses since Partner Seals don't exist, they're really just there for your support ending.
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Oct 29, 2021 22:34
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Yeah, Siegbert is one of the worst cases of 'oh yeah, you're a class I already have too many of'. Cavalier's not bad, but you've already had four at this point (Silas, Peri, Gunter, Xander), and potentially Sophie, who's easier to get since Silas joins way earlier. Unlike Soliel or Ophelia, he doesn't have any notably giant stat growth leans, and Xander's late join time really hampers him, with the only upside being that Xander is gonna be seeing a ton of action as soon as he joins anyway and he aligns well with a lot of the physical moms that would be really good as a pair-up partner for Xander. Otherwise he's... just kinda there. He probably won't do anything the rest of your army isn't already doing.
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Oct 30, 2021 16:04
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I guess I'm in the minority where I don't really hate the kitsune map? I just gave Beast Killer/effective weaponry on Benny and Camilla and they were quite good at weaving through the mess. The real danger here is if you want to deploy Azura. You'd want a four-way escort around her at all times if you want to bring her. Walla posted:And both routes would have been better without the wolfskin/kitsune maps. Both exist just to have Kaden and Keaton as enemies because they couldn't join the army for some reason. They didn't even need to have them as enemies - Nyx is never encountered during Birthright, for instance.
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Oct 31, 2021 01:24
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I think they intended for people to start with Birthright; its difficulty is similar to Awakening, it has the 'infinite grind' option, and several CQ characters are just mini-bosses or don't appear at all. You also finish the prologue after spending 2-3 turns with the BR royals, so they're 'fresher' in your memory. Shura also joins way later in BR than in other routes so in CQ you might be more tempted to keep him around so you can play with him more.
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Oct 31, 2021 03:10
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Leo and Xander are generally very susceptible to being Speed-screwed if you're unlucky. Xander can usually kinda make do with his high Def, but Leo's a bit shakier on that front. Honestly Leo's not a bad unit, it's just that Dark Knight doesn't give him enough strengths to work with (being on a horse is bad for kitsune map and the horse mobility isn't as important on a lot of mid-game maps due to illusion gimmick or wind gimmick or you have to funnel your army close together anyway), and the growths are kinda wonky for Leo's bases.
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Nov 1, 2021 10:29
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Nope.
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Nov 2, 2021 11:04
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It's kind of a shame that Sakura is at her most interesting when she's traumatized by having her soldiers ruthlessly murdered in front of her.
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Nov 3, 2021 06:34
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I actually have a tough time getting Shigure, not because of his paralogue, but because getting Azura to S Rank can be very slow and painful unless you're actually stapling her to someone, which means you're out a Dancer. Her low Movement means it's hard for her to keep up with several units, which makes focus-supporting a specific unit difficult unless it's Jakob since he can spend his refreshed turn healing someone.Walla posted:So class inheritance is weird and convoluted and there's a ton I probably forgot and there's a whole chart that you can luck up but in reality it only effects a handful of units: Yeah that's correct, the usual inheritance order is Dad's Primary > Dad's Secondary > Mom's Primary > Mom's Secondary > Hoshidan/Nohrian counterpart of Mom's Primary. Since Shigure already has Sky Knight, he will always inherit Troubadour from Azura unless his dad is Jakob; in which case, he gets it from Jakob, and then the Nohrian counterpart of Sky Knight, Wyvern. And yeah, those are the only possible unique combinations because the Hoshidan units' classes don't end up having that kinda overlap. There are a lot of dud secondary class options though! Like Orochi will give Apothecary to Selkie/Rhajat.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:07
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Walla posted:The Hoshidan classes are inspired. No natural Apothecary in the first gen? Orochi getting Apothecary and Rinkah getting Ninja? It just doesn't make much sense. You also only have one natural Oni Savage who's not even good in the class and Kaden/Selkie getting Diviner as their secondary. I think Hayato is the only magical Hoshidan unit that has a magical option for his side class. Sakura gets Sky Knight, Orochi and Azama get Apothecary. It's kinda cute that Sakura and her retainers form a triangle with their Heart Seal options (Sakura gets Subaki's, Hana gets Sakura's, Subaki gets Hana's) but oh man is it a mess for them other than Subaki.
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Nov 4, 2021 05:30
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Sophie works out well on both routes, Birthright lacks Cavaliers (your options are Silas and a reclassed Jakob), so Sophie's nice for a mobility option there that isn't weak to arrows. That said, Birthright is easy so people focus more on her use in Conquest. There she faces competition because you get so many horses as is, but her growths are decent for a physical unit and she has a lot of physical routes she can go depending on her mom; heck, even if her mom doesn't give her anything good, Cavalier/Mercenary is a decent class set. Tack on that she has an actually good offensive Personal skill and she's probably one of the better kid units especially considering her dad's early join time and easy deployment. Because Sophie's such a general physical unit, it's hard to decide her optimal options. Effie/Charlotte give her the best growths, and people tend to go Effie because you also get her early, she works well as a backpack for Silas, and she kinda fades midgame so it's easier just to use her as a mom early on and never touch her after that. She doesn't get anything good class wise, but that's fine. Charlotte is similar, since Sophie already has Hero, so the main things she can grab from it are the Fighter skills and Berserker if you really want an axe Sophie (and she can get axe rank from Great Knight). Beruka or Camilla give her Wyvern, and she makes just as good a use of that class as you'd expect any physical unit would. Azura gives her Sky Knight and strong offensive growths and she makes solid use of that class... if you can suffer through getting Azura to S Rank a guy on a horse who's probably far ahead of her in any given battle. Selena also gives her Sky Knight and a more balanced stat spread; she'll be fast at least.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:12
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Yeah the later kids suffer a lot in Conquest because the very time crunch that could make them useful also makes them only useful for a handful of maps. Offspring Seals help offset this a lot, but that just makes them into a customizable late game pre-promote (ish); pretty good unit if someone's been lacking in growths, but you probably have a few units that pulled you through to that point already. I think Ignatius suffers the worse out of the Conquest kids, actually. Siegbert will at least have his dad see more than enough fighting to recruit him. To see Ignatius you have to actively deploy Benny in multiple maps and have him see enough combat to get his support ranks up, and the result is another Knight when Benny and Keaton already do everything he already does and customization doesn't help him improve that much. You could just staple Benny to a high movement female unit like Camilla/Beruka/Peri I guess, but I don't think the reward really pays off much, in fact getting Benny Wyvern Rider is probably the cooler return. Soleil also suffers from this to a small degree considering how late Laslow joins and how he has difficulty finding a niche to be deployed, but he has a fast support with Peri and Soleil is an alright enough offensive unit.
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Nov 6, 2021 04:59
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midnight lasagna posted:Soleil's got a niche in her stupidly high strength base, she is at least a lot different from Laslow in being both stronger and faster while also less bulky. I don't have much experience with her but I figure she makes a great Bow Knight? Yeah, Soleil is a notable kid in that her growth rate is wildly different from her dad (unlike most kids that are just I'm you, but slightly stronger/faster and less bulky or the inverse). She has a 60% growth base without any modifiers. Berserker Charlotte!Soleil has 82.5% Str growth and a not too shabby 50% Skill and 57.5% Spd growth. Has a +5 Str cap, too. The make or break for Soleil is usually giving her a mom who can patch up her Speed enough. You can actually make her a really weird Basara on Revelations by giving her Orochi as a mom and abusing Rend Heaven with either lances or scrolls thanks to her strong Skill growth inheritance. It's probably not worth it though, especially since she ends up with a very shaky 35% Spd growth and there are better mixed Basaras out there if you want to build them like Rhajat or Shiro. Heck, even the weird novelty Basara Nyx!Nina would be better for the job.
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Nov 6, 2021 11:46
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I don't think I've ever used Azura enough to get Foreign Princess, wow. Anyway, Dwyer is a cool unit that would be great if it wasn't for his starting class. Get him early and he's just a kinda okay Butler who'd have to rebuild weapon ranks if you swap him out, get him late and what's the point, you already have enough healers and physical units.
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Nov 8, 2021 08:11
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The real answer is feed things to Benny/Keaton so we can recruit their kids. Justice for the slow bulky guys!
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Nov 10, 2021 11:48
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LiefKatano posted:This is late but I'll judge you forever for using Butler Dwyer because his Strategist magic is better than his Butler strength Dwyer's Butler Str growth (55%) is actually higher than his Strategist Mag growth (45%) by default. A magical mom will of course skew things the other way, but chances are that Ophelia/Forrest/Rhajat will have dibs on them anyway.
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Nov 11, 2021 18:58
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I think I've used Flora all of once (Sakura's map). She's not the worst staffbot ever, but... eh. The problem is that most of the ranged units from that point onwards are either ninjas (bad for Flora's poor Def), Onis (bad for Flora's iffy base Str), or Kinshis (doubly bad for Flora). So she's mostly relegated to sticking near the back, which isn't always possible (hi Hinoka's map). Like, I think Shura ends up as a better staffer with just a little effort.
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Nov 14, 2021 14:16
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You have to upgrade the Fire Orb to max in My Castle. There's a similar mechanic in Birthright for Yukimura.
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Nov 14, 2021 17:02
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Beruka!Percy gets Sky Flier, which is a cool option that's not available much on Conquest: Azura and Shigure can access it naturally (but you probably want to keep Azura as Songstress). The other kids that can get it are Azura!Forrest (ehhh, I guess he can be a flying healer), Azura!Dwyer (not a bad option considering his parents' offensive growths, but he might want Paladin instead) and Selena!Soleil (kind of a wonky option, but workable). You can also technically marry any 2nd gen female to Shigure for it, so it's not particularly unique, but I don't know of many CQ 2nd gen females that particularly want it; Soleil like I said can make it work. Nina can be a Kinshi, I guess? Other than that there's uhhh Sophie.
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Nov 16, 2021 03:44
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And thus, Candace's reign of terror was never ended, and she would go on to decimate both Hoshido and Nohr in the distant future, setting up her empire of Candaceland. You monster.
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Nov 16, 2021 10:00
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Forrest is a cool character but as a unit he's very... alright? His father's late recruitment really works against him, and all the strikes against Dwyer apply to him but worse. Unlike Xander, Leo doesn't see nearly enough combat to S rank very quickly, and it doesn't help that his retainers (who usually have a fast support with their lord) are both male and no gaybies allowed. If he could join earlier he might be decent, but chances are that you've recruited Dwyer or Ophelia first and they cover most of what Forrest could do already, if you didn't already have enough mages/healers.
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Nov 17, 2021 10:18
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Onmyoji Forrest (which needs Corrin or Sakura as a mom) is also pretty great. I think what makes Forrest a little dull as a unit is that there's not a lot of deviation for him in terms of inheritance. He'll almost always end up as a Strategist/Dark Knight/Sorceror, and his mom is pretty much almost always Corrin/Nyx/Felicia. Leo doesn't pass down anything super interesting. At least Ophelia can get Vantage and has really big sparkly numbers and crits. Malig Knight Forrest might be kinda fun, but that requires him to have Beruka as a mom, which dumpsters his speed and evens out his stats a lot. Other than that, I dunno, nothing really works for him outside of something gimmicky like Shining Bow Adventurer.
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Nov 17, 2021 16:56
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I usually prefer the left side of the map; the Lunge traps are annoying, but it is possible to tank through them, and someone like Benny or Keaton could reasonably turtle their way through; their low movement doesn't hamper them much here. The right side on the other hand is just kinda hellish unless you've built a Bow Knight ahead of time, and even then they'd get whittled down without some help. What's interesting in the BR version of this map (where you fight Xander) is that Laslow can actually die, making him the only Awakening kid that you can straight up kill. Selena can die while under the player's control (and since she's a girl she actually dies, while fathers 'live' for their kid's paralogue), making Odin the only Awakening kid that will always live through Fates.
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Nov 19, 2021 05:38
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It's funny how halfway through this run I was all 'huh, now I kinda feel like playing Conquest again' and then you got to Endless Stairway onwards and I'm like 'actually never mind, I'm good, I remember this stretch of maps'.
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Nov 22, 2021 13:21
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The problem with that is that outside of reclassing or going certain promotions the Throwing Club is pretty much just for Rinkah, who's... iffy. Hana and Hinata can eventually use both, but since Hana is pretty terrible, that's Hinata or bust. And that's of course ignoring that Ryoma exists. BR pretty much expects you to go ninja for all your range needs, hence why you get three of them (at least, if you remember to A Support Kaze), and then another as a kid.
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Nov 22, 2021 21:47
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Hayato is actually pretty decent in Revelation, but yeah, he's pretty junky in Birthright. His daughter is actually a great mage, though. You could also use Mozu's paralogue to level him, if you wanted. Sakura isn't a horrible Onmyoji, but she's mostly just there and nothing really good or bad. Azama is secretly a physical unit, as are Jakob and Dwyer. Felicia could pass on Strategist to a few kids, but outside of Rhajat the only one that could really make use of it is, surprisingly, Asugi.
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Nov 22, 2021 22:12
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| # ¿ May 14, 2024 19:14 |
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Well done on finishing the LP! I'm doing my own run of Conquest (Hard, I'm a weenie) at the moment, so it's actually kinda refreshing. My tactics have changed since the last time I played; I'm using Attack Stance a bit more, I'm not super focused on pairing everyone up, and I'm trying out characters I usually just kinda leave on the side (Beruka, Laslow, Arthur). Peri unfortunately I still can't find a good spot for her. Maybe I'll just give up her (and Felicia) as stat backpacks for someone. The most hilarious part so far is that Nyx has gained Str way more than she has Skl.
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Dec 3, 2021 04:10
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