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That Works posted:The person who is PVP flagged is the one that can push the unflagged one off of the node. I get it, its just an unbelievably boring way to pvp
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Oct 23, 2021 17:04
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:I get it, its just an unbelievably boring way to pvp It's not the "reason" to pvp, its just a perk for those who are flagged. For the hardcore PVE only types its just something they have to live with, for the people who want more reasons for open world pvp then resource denial is a fairly decent one.
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Oct 23, 2021 17:06
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it doesn't seem like PvP gives any rewards the mitigate the costs of repairs, so its risk-risk instead of risk-reward
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Oct 23, 2021 17:10
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They should increase the PVP flag reward to 33% XP and an across the board increase in luck. But that would hurt the feelings of PvErs so we can't have that.
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Oct 23, 2021 17:58
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DaitoX posted:Really? I did it yesterday with a pug and had a blast and enjoyed that we had to figure poo poo out. Yeah I'm sure with a better group it wouldn't be as bad but it's frustrating when you're paired with people that may or may not have a clue. It was definitely the group composition as a whole, I joined as a DPS and it wasn't until about 45 minutes into wiping that I realized the leader had brought two healers instead of another DPS. And since that fight is a pure group DPS check... it was doomed from the start. The two of us DPSing could keep up with mines if we stayed down but then the pylon group would take forever and we'd get overwhelmed by 4-5 mines popping at the same time. Or if the DPS went up to pylons we'd clear it quick until the second split, in which case the splash damage from mines would overwhelm us because the two healers and tank couldn't kill mines fast enough. I feel mechanics/checks like that are fine (and even welcome!) on content that isn't required to progress the main quest line (e.g. Starstone). But IMO anything that funnels the entire playerbase through it should to cater to the least common denominator. Either put in a group finder that explicitly delineates the proper group comp a la FFXIV, or tune it so that any 5 random people with a brain stem can clear it without much frustration.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:10
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Increase node amounts by an appropriate percentage for those who are PvP flagged. That way PvE isn't getting constantly interrupted in a way they can't stop
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Oct 23, 2021 18:13
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a pale ghost posted:Increase node amounts by an appropriate percentage for those who are PvP flagged. That way PvE isn't getting constantly interrupted in a way they can't stop They can stop it by flagging 
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Oct 23, 2021 18:15
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Or just put in blood-stained Iron Veins that can only be mined while PvP flagged
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Oct 23, 2021 18:17
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a pale ghost posted:Increase node amounts by an appropriate percentage for those who are PvP flagged. That way PvE isn't getting constantly interrupted in a way they can't stop They're not getting interrupted in any way at all right now. And they can flag up and stop it if they want to or work together with people who can defend them while they continue with PVE content. This is hardly new to MMOs.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:38
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Being inconvenienced as a PVE player because of PVP isn't forced pvp. Frankly this attituded of all I want to do is PVE and I should never ever have any inconvenience because of PVP is getting tiresome. The concept of pushing people off nodes because flagged I don't think would be great, but they need to do something for open world pvp and if it inconveniences 100% PVE players I do not care. There are like 15 zones in this game I am sure that PVE content can still be found. If 3 zones get locked down and forced open flag pvp there are plenty of other places to go etc. VVV Yeah them making GBS threads of pvp scaling was stupid as hell. BadLlama fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 18:42
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People aren't flagging because the rewards are bad, people aren't flagging because every zone is roaming with bored level 50s-60s (to deny PVP quests, get weapon xp, for shits and giggles, etc.) who will curbstomp anyone below that range. The answer is to bring back PVP scaling so leveling players can actually stand a chance of not exploding when all 4 lowest-level zones are crawling with flagged max level players.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:45
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Why not just make the systems that are there more enticing? So the pvp quests and the outpost. If those gave better rewards more people might engage with them? Pushing people off of nodes is dumb since if they are unflagged the result is nothing, just an annoyed pve player.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:47
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BadLlama posted:Being inconvenienced as a PVE player because of PVP isn't forced pvp. Frankly this attituded of all I want to do is PVE and I should never ever have any inconvenience because of PVP is getting tiresome. The concept of pushing people off nodes because flagged I don't think would be great, but they need to do something for open world pvp and if it inconveniences 100% PVE players I do not care. There are like 15 zones in this game I am sure that PVE content can still be found. If 3 zones get locked down and forced open flag pvp there are plenty of other places to go etc. As a pure PVE player I can get behind this. Even PVE players will get that PVP itch once a blue moon, having special PVP zones gives you that opportunity, plus a dose of curiosity and exploration desire that can push someone out of their comfort zone. Sort of like the dark zones in the Division.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:52
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All this PvP theory crafting is never going to happen
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Oct 23, 2021 19:18
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They should just add some gathering luck to the pvp flag bonus. Anyone slightly inclined to pvp would flag for a little gathering luck
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Oct 23, 2021 19:31
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Speaking of luck here is a video on how luck actually works in the game. https://youtu.be/lW-w_jUMlug It’s kinda weird
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Oct 23, 2021 19:34
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New World the thread: *1,000 wildly different theoretical ideas to make the game have content* New World the game: Help I've outpost rushed and I can't get up.
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Oct 23, 2021 19:35
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DaitoX posted:Pushing people off of nodes is dumb since if they are unflagged the result is nothing, just an annoyed pve player. Counterpoint: One of my best moments in this game was seeing someone on an iron harvesting route who was actually flagged up, and knocking him down with a javelin from 150 meters away then stealing the node. More of that please.
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Oct 23, 2021 19:47
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Sure, but then he can challenge you for the node, you don't just get the node for free because you are flagged and the other one isn't.
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Oct 23, 2021 20:14
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:The ore is pennies on our server, I've only seen a couple nodes Yeah, people aren't harvesting it for the ore though.,
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Oct 23, 2021 20:33
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I'm not sure why they got rid of scaling, I have to assume it's because 60's were crying that they can't one shot <40's. As I said, if they brought back scaling, I would be PvP flagged a lot of, probably most of, the time.
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Oct 23, 2021 21:27
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Scaling definitely exists. It just won't make a 30 able to contend with a competent 60. Nor should it.
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Oct 23, 2021 21:28
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It should.
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Oct 23, 2021 22:50
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Pussy Snorkel posted:Scaling definitely exists. It just won't make a 30 able to contend with a competent 60. Nor should it. It absolutely should lol
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Oct 23, 2021 22:57
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well...made 60...now what do I do? It would be nice if I could put all that XP Im getting from quests to....anything. Maybe push it into zone rep? Gold ? Some stat that gives me .00001% more luck?
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Oct 23, 2021 22:58
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CLAM DOWN posted:It absolutely should lol Nah
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Oct 23, 2021 23:08
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MaxPowers posted:well...made 60...now what do I do? There's nothing besides bootlicking into a company and hope they allow you to play Otherwise no endgame atm
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Oct 23, 2021 23:08
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I wonder how different everyone's view of this game would be if faction unlock was at level 50 instead of 10. Because in a very progression heavy game this quote should never enter anyone's sane mind about forced open world pvp:Pussy Snorkel posted:Scaling definitely exists. It just won't make a 30 able to contend with a competent 60. Nor should it. Lets dive into a history lesson in how heavy level progression games and pvp don't mix. I'm going to use a favorite punching bag. World of Wargaming. More specifically World of Tanks. But you ask, why am I comparing a 15v15 arena game with a open world mmo? Because the balance is no different. In fact, World of Tanks has a lot of similarities. There are no sides. A french tank can be on both sides shooting each other. There is a progression leveling system, tier 1 tanks like the MS-1 up to tier 10 tanks like the Maus or IS-7. Badlama, I want you sit and compare these two games some and you'll see how bad an idea any open world pvp is when looking at quotes like the above. Treat each tank tier as 10 levels in this game. Perhaps the middling tiers are you upgrading your equipment. I'm singling him out only because I've played with him in WoT in the past so I know he has experience there even if he tries hard to delete it from memory. So I've established some. Lets gets some history going. Currently there is a matchmaker with a template push of 3/5/7. That is for example, 3x tier 8 + 5x tier 7 + 7x tier 6. Now, as Badlama can tell you, tier 6s have no business fighting tier 8s. The tier 6s don't have the pen nor have the armor to fight the tier 8s. But you say, there is only three tier 8s so it shouldn't be too bad. Trust me, it is. Those 3 tier 8s decide the outcome of the match more often than not. But wait, there is more. They used to not even do a template. That is to say, it mirrored in tiers, but otherwise it was a free for all inside the tier bad. You could be in a fantastic game of 10x tier 8s + 4x tier 7s + 1x tier 6. This was possible and did happen. Now as the lone tier 6, what are your options? In that game, legitimately, just double tap r and go get a drink. That is to say, turn on auto run and let your tank drive off towards the enemy because suiciding back to the garage was more useful than sticking around. But it gets better, matchmaking before that was balanced on points. Which had the fun effect at times of one team getting one or two extra tanks in a single tier. You might be in a game where you are the only tier 6 ON EITHER SIDE. But now I get to the crux and one you guys need to think about in your pvp bloodlust. Back before I even played in beta, WoT didn't even have a matchmaker. You clicked battle and a couple seconds later, you got a game. And it didn't care what it grabbed. There are infamous situations from those days of games where the enemy team would have a smattering to tier 1-3 vehicles and a maus. Meanwhile, your team was just a smattering of tiers 1-3. There is nothing in the entire arsenal available to any of those tier 1-3s that can even pen a maus. You are talking about tanks using something like a 20mm autocannon inside a turret. Facing off to a tank designed to face check KV and IS tanks by just having the thickest piece of steel as possible while still being mobile. You the level 60 player in your maus had a fun game. Got to beat up on a bunch of lowbies. The lowbies on the other hand just threw up their hands and looked elsewhere. Remember that when you think of any open world pvp action. Pushing a pve player off a node just because you are pvp flagged? To the pve guy, that is griefing. More to the point, the answer would be "pve guy should just flag up!!!!" Ok, pve guy is level 10 and flags up to guarantee his iron node is his. You show up in your level 40 and need that iron because everything revolves around iron. Even in just that range, a power shot musket to the head is going to kill the level 10 guy instantly. How different was the fun level? If you want pvp back, you need to argue first that a better level scaling is added. Even at level 30, there is absolutely no point to flagging up when there are level 60s around that can just curbstomp me. Open world pvp isn't die-ing because of poor rewards. Open pvp is die-ing because all of you that powered to level 60 just straight up face check anyone below what, level 50? How much of a fight can a level 40 put up to a level 60? So yes, the games are very different, but there are lessons to be learned about pvp balance. And this game is not pvp balanced for anyone not 50+ to enjoy or would ever risk turning on. The faction system is pvp, yes. But in fact, the pvp is already distilled to special zones... war and defense. The pvp flagged quests is literally just filler. Once you start separating it out, you'll see the real problem isn't a pvp problem. The problem is the number of people making to 60 who would feel comfortable to challenge you is shrinking. This isn't Eve Online where a launch vet and a newbro is small percentage change on a ship. Where understanding sig radius and transversal among other mechanics will win you a fight more than whatever ship skills you have leveled up. The game just needs better content to hold people past 30 and up. I'm sure you are going to argue that your as a level 60 will be all honorable and not push off a level 10 mining iron that is pve flagged. You may not, but someone will. Always remember that. Just because you won't doesn't mean you've left the gate open for others to do it. JuffoWup fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 23:29
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There's no need to dive into anything. Not allowing a 30 to compete with a 60 just dissolves into the 60's camping low levels who flag up and no one flagging up until they hit 60. Every mmo that's had open world pvp without scaling has ended up in the same position.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:38
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JuffoWup posted:I wonder how different everyone's view of this game would be if faction unlock was at level 50 instead of 10. Because in a very progression heavy game this quote should never enter anyone's sane mind about forced open world pvp: tl;dr Edit: On a serious note, though, honestly, the game definitely has issues and needs to do something to motivate flagging - at any level - because the current offering isn't cutting it. Edit edit: Honestly, "fair" PVP really needs flat progression, or micro-percentage progression like EVE as you mentioned. Something like Guild Wars really comes to mind, where getting to max level (20) really is part of the tutorial, and the rest is expanding your options with skills and whatnot. This game could never accomplish that given its design from the start. Pussy Snorkel fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 23:46
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Welp not flagging until 60 unless they change it 
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Oct 23, 2021 23:49
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The only reason I could see flagging is if your company wants to shift influence in a particular territory.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:52
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Don't forget to pay your taxes
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Oct 23, 2021 23:55
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I’m glad my company took the territory my house is in right before tax time came.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:57
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Having levels at all is kinda dumb, but I guess you can’t sell cosmetic sets when the only way to tell a players power level is to look at their gear
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Oct 23, 2021 23:59
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Does starfleet own any land on plancta or whatever it is
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Oct 24, 2021 00:51
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zazzix posted:Does starfleet own any land on plancta or whatever it is Yes
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Oct 24, 2021 00:55
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CLAM DOWN posted:It absolutely should lol
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Oct 24, 2021 00:58
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Yeah pvp sweaties always ruin these games.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:59
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Pussy Snorkel posted:tl;dr Motivate flagging why? Because: bird. posted:The only reason I could see flagging is if your company wants to shift influence in a particular territory. That is the reason to flag. Boredom flagging for enjoyment is straight up boredom because there is no pve up there that you didn't see for the past 50+ levels. PvP can create content, but this game is very much not set up for that level of pvp playground.
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Oct 24, 2021 01:25
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