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kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
I've actually read that latest Guild Hunter book! My post is earlier on in the thread somewhere. tbh it's a very heavy focus on the two leads' history together, and the romance part happens in the last 10% of the book. also there's no sex, lol. I didn't have a bad time with it but it's clearly as tame as possible to not piss off the existing readerbase (which didn't quite work, you only have to scroll a little bit down on its goodreads page to see thinly-disguised homophobia).

I tried shotgunning a bunch of Psy-Changling books during the winter holidays earlier this year, in an attempt to re-read the entire series so I could get to Allegiance of Honor (and by extension, the Psy-Changling Trinity series. Yes, I know it's supposed to be a 'fresh start' series but whatever). Unfortunately I bounced off of them, but that's also because these books are _long_ for romance books imo. I think the one featuring Dorian is still one of my favorite ones of the bunch.

On books I have read recently:
A Lady for a Duke. This is historical romance down to its bones, featuring a trans woman who took advantage of being reported dead at Waterloo to live a new life. It's got some identity stuff going on at the beginning with the hero (who was the heroine's childhood friend) and is kind of angsty, but it's very sweet. It's maybe a little optimistic in how well everyone in-the-know takes Viola's identity, but also, it's a romance.

Persuasion by Jane Austen, spurred almost entirely by me seeing this tumblr post about it, which made it sound like it would perfectly hit a bunch of emotional notes that I like. And it did! ...to an extent. The book is almost entirely from Anne's perspective (so we don't get to see Wentworth's internal monologue), and the language is (obviously) more formal than that of today, which blunted the emotional effect for me. But I still had a good time with it, and the scene with the letter at the end worked for me, as did an earlier one where Anne is doing her best not to cry as she plays the piano for dancers at a gathering. I recommend anybody interested in reading it to get the annotated version, since the historical footnotes were really useful imo

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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

I just finished Nora Roberts' Island of Flowers and here's my review:

aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

okay so! I liked parts of this book - the heroine being a sweetly innocent tourist of Hawaii's natural wonders, learning to fly (in one sweet scene), swimming, more. I liked the housekeeper being a kind mother-figure to the heroine, and parts of the banter between heroine and hero.

But the hero R U I N S it. god he's an rear end in a top hat. The climax of the book is him attempting rape on the heroine, then blaming her for making him do it as he leaves in a fit of having a conscience.

Before that, he's just a raging rear end in a top hat.

See - the concept is, the heroine's parents divorced when she was seven and her mom took her to France, and promptly set to neglecting her. Her mom destroyed the letters her dad sent, kept the money, and let her believe that her dad abandoned her.

After her mom dies in an accident she flies out to Hawaii to find her dad, and immediately runs into the hero - who takes one look at her, hears that she's here to meet her dad, and he decides that she's clearly here to lie, cheat, steal, and hurt her father. He accuses her of being an actress, he interrupts every meeting between her and her father, doesn't let her go anywhere alone, and through the entire book accuses her of being a liar. Oh, he also forces kisses on her, too.

Early on she reveals that no, she's poor and the letters were burnt - and he calls her a liar.

So she decides that no, seriously, gently caress him, and decides to prove herself: she won't reveal that she's poor or explain the situation to her father. She'll be nice and wonderful for two weeks and leave without taking any money.

So it's almost, almost interesting - she's sweet and innocent and he begins to realize that she's actually the lost lamb she presents herself as, and he falls in love...

Until at the luau she slips off into the forest to sell a locket from her mother's collection because she's so broke she can't go home to France, and he catches her with the fellow, and later in privacy he accuses her of being a prostitute.

Yep. What the hell.

She, rightfully furious, refuses to explain herself, tells him to gently caress off, and he begins to force her back on the bed and rape her before he stops himself, accuses her of making him lose control, and leaves.

She rightfully goes "what the gently caress" and leaves the next day, and........

Cut to a three page epilogue where she's been back at her teaching job in France, doing alright with herself, when he shows up at her school, apologizes and explains how he found out that oh. she isn't a prostitute. and he apologizes and she just goes "okay" and expects him to leave. So he goes "no I love you and I want to take you home to Hawaii to marry you"

and I would have been over the moon if she had said no and seen him out

but this is a terrible book so she goes "oh! then marry me, THEN take me to hawaii!" and they're happy and the book ends

sigh

The book gets two stars because even this early on Nora Roberts is a solid writer, and I loved the flow of the prose and how descriptive and sweet the island was. But the rest of it... it's only salvaged by being 160 pages. If it had been longer I should have thrown it in the garbage.

Which really sucks because there could have been something sweet here! Have him believe her, have him not be an rear end in a top hat, and have this be a sweet tale of homecoming and love and luaus and learning to fly. I wanted that. But it's not what I got.

(PS I'm told Nora Roberts stops writing this kind of rear end in a top hat in the mid 90s, so I look forward to reading her modern stuff - which I'm already enjoying very much!)

Pan Dulce
Jan 4, 2011

Beautiful cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure



This past month I've been on a Tessa Bailey binge. I'd already read her Christmas novella, Window Shopping, this past December and -loved- the stuffing out of it, with a grumpy/sunshine trope of the grump being the female and the sunshine being a Ted Lasso-alike male. It was adorable. Well, I had to see if lightning could strike twice for me and this author. And BOY, did it keep striking!

First I read "It Happened One Summer." It comes highly recommended from booktube and booktok and even though I've never seen Schitt's Creek, I heard the lead in this novel, Piper, is based on Alexis. So I gave it a shot. It's about this socialite, Instagram-famous girl who pulls off one heck of a party where she isn't supposed to and in turn gets punished by her stepdad to live in an apartment above a rundown bar her birth-father used to own before he passed. There she meets a grumpy sea captain named Brendan and they don't hit it off at ALL, each getting bad impressions of the other. Still, they continue meeting and he falls in love with her, trying his best to convince her they're right for each other. The sex scenes? ACES I tell you, aces, and certainly not expected from a regularly published, illustrated cover novel. 5 outta 5 stars for sure.

So I continued to "Hook, Line, and Sinker," the next novel in that series with Piper's little sister, Hannah, becoming best friends with Brendan's co-captain and shipmate/best friend, Fox. I didn't like this one as much, but the music choices made me run for a Spotify playlist of the novel and the LONG dragged out wait to Fox finally giving in to temptation and being with Hannah didn't seem as bad anymore. A solid 3.5 out of 5 stars.

I thought I'd test out the earlier series Tessa Bailey did with the Hot and Hammered series. I found a trend of REALLY great sex scenes in all of the novels and really great chemistry built up between the characters. The writing is funny and on point. But I did tend to disagree with Booktube, which gave the first book, "Fix Her Up" the highest praise. I found the trope of best friend's little sister not used to its fullest potential and kinda found the overuse of the term, "baby girl" to be kinda weird. It wasn't the best, but again, 3 outta 5 is nothing to sneeze at. The other two in the series got 5 outta 5 stars from me. "Love Her or Lose Her," the second in the series, I devoured in a day and loved how well she captured Latinx angst at being the emotionless, male provider for your significant other. It's a marriage in trouble, second chance romance with the best steam of the three books in the series and I loved it. "Tools of Engagement," the third and final book in the Hot and Hammered series was also SO good, with banter you just HAD to laugh with or go, "Ooooooh, girl, you got him there!" It was enemies to lovers and though I don't usually jive with that trope, I loved it here and thought it added to their chemistry.

The last and latest book I read was her latest debut, "My Killer Vacation," which combined a murder mystery at a BnB with a hot as hell romance between a second grade private school teacher and her beau, the grumpy, tatted to high heaven and riding a motorcycle bounty hunter. It had be laughing up a storm and loving the scenes between the two. I'm lucky I wasn't listening to it on audiobook, because though it is rare for me to react IRL to sex scenes, one in this novel had be side-eyeing people and blushing in a waiting room office. SO good. 5 stars.

If y'all look past the cutesy illustrated covers, you'll really find some gems in Tessa Bailey's repertoire.

Pan Dulce
Jan 4, 2011

Beautiful cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure



StrixNebulosa posted:

Cut to a three page epilogue where she's been back at her teaching job in France, doing alright with herself, when he shows up at her school, apologizes and explains how he found out that oh. she isn't a prostitute. and he apologizes and she just goes "okay" and expects him to leave. So he goes "no I love you and I want to take you home to Hawaii to marry you"

and I would have been over the moon if she had said no and seen him out

but this is a terrible book so she goes "oh! then marry me, THEN take me to hawaii!" and they're happy and the book ends



Good Lord, that sounds terrible! I would've given that 1 star. I mean, to pull all that dick-ish behavior and only give a 3-page epilogue of grovelling to a happy ending? WTF. I know it's a novella and you don't get much from that, but still!

Also, you always know these romance novels end in a HEA. The scant ones that don't have to have heavy warnings and even then, people still rate them lowly because "It's not a romance novel if it doesn't end in a HEA." Personally, I think we all know some romance novel couples that didn't deserve each other and probably ended in breaking up at best, divorce and restraining orders at worst, if they stayed together at a HEA at the end of the novel.

Drakyn
Dec 26, 2012

Pan Dulce posted:

Also, you always know these romance novels end in a HEA. The scant ones that don't have to have heavy warnings and even then, people still rate them lowly because "It's not a romance novel if it doesn't end in a HEA." Personally, I think we all know some romance novel couples that didn't deserve each other and probably ended in breaking up at best, divorce and restraining orders at worst, if they stayed together at a HEA at the end of the novel.
The definition needs expansion, frankly.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Well, romance generally also includes couples that live "happily for now" or HFN. I don't think that the genre actually needs expanding beyond that, any more than the mystery genre needs to expand beyond "the detective always solves the crime." Genre mainly exists for marketing reasons anyway, and people pick up romance because they know there's going to be a positive resolution. Throwing out the HEA/HFN genre convention means ripping the rug out from under people who are looking for some comfort in books. You can still find plenty of love stories that don't have HEAs or HFNs, they just won't be shelved in the Romance section.

No, the real problem is that one person's "romantic" is another person's "creepy, controlling, and/or emotionally immature." The solution is to read and write healthier romances, not to throw out genre.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Pththya-lyi posted:

Well, romance generally also includes couples that live "happily for now" or HFN. I don't think that the genre actually needs expanding beyond that, any more than the mystery genre needs to expand beyond "the detective always solves the crime." Genre mainly exists for marketing reasons anyway, and people pick up romance because they know there's going to be a positive resolution. Throwing out the HEA/HFN genre convention means ripping the rug out from under people who are looking for some comfort in books. You can still find plenty of love stories that don't have HEAs or HFNs, they just won't be shelved in the Romance section.

No, the real problem is that one person's "romantic" is another person's "creepy, controlling, and/or emotionally immature." The solution is to read and write healthier romances, not to throw out genre.

Yeah, this is where I'm at. I really, REALLY hate sad endings in romance, which is where I don't want Nicolas Sparks to be filed as romance, even by accident. When I pick up a romance I want a HEA or HFN, even if I hate the couple.

And there was a real plague of assholes in 80s romance - the classic Flame and the Flower open with rape, and look at the trigger warnings in most bodice rippers. It was the style, and I'm thrilled to see that romance has moved beyond it. And sometimes I'm willing to hold my nose and read the assholes, and sometimes I'm not, and so I check reviews and read carefully.

Pan Dulce posted:

Good Lord, that sounds terrible! I would've given that 1 star. I mean, to pull all that dick-ish behavior and only give a 3-page epilogue of grovelling to a happy ending? WTF. I know it's a novella and you don't get much from that, but still!

Also, you always know these romance novels end in a HEA. The scant ones that don't have to have heavy warnings and even then, people still rate them lowly because "It's not a romance novel if it doesn't end in a HEA." Personally, I think we all know some romance novel couples that didn't deserve each other and probably ended in breaking up at best, divorce and restraining orders at worst, if they stayed together at a HEA at the end of the novel.

FWIW I try to rate 1 stars as garbage - as in, unreadable, or stuff that drove me entirely up the wall. For all of Island of Flowers' faults, it was a fast read, I enjoyed parts of it, and the heroine didn't fall for the hero until he actually apologized to her, so... better than SOME romances I've read (cough kresley cole cough cough). But I don't consider books good until I hit 3 stars or higher.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Heheheh new mail



Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

I've been frustrated by how romance is treated in a lot of other genres and media, where it's very often full of wheel spinning "Will they, Won't they" stuff until the story ends at the point where they get together. And then even if it gets a sequel they broken up, so they we can have the whole thing again. So I figured I'd go directly to the source and see if anyone here have any good recommendations for where to start with romance stories that are mostly about people being in relationships. Rocky relationships and even breaks ups are ok, as long as there actually was a relationship and it's not used just to have the same story over and over again.

I'm ok with it taking longer to get together if there are sequels that don't keep splitting them up. But other than that I'm mostly ok with whatever, F/F, M/F ,M/M ,Sex, no sex, paranormal, sci-fi whatever, figure I can start narrowing down my interests once I start reading more.

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
For books that start with an existing relationship between the two leads, the immediate thing that springs to mind here are marriage/relationship-in-trouble stories. You can google some up if you like, but I have a couple of suggestions:
You Deserve Each Other by Sarah Hogle
This one is about an engaged couple who have completely lost the spark in their relationship. Neither of them want to be holding the bill for the nonrefundable wedding reservations, so they start tormenting each other to try to get the other to call it off. I think I posted about this earlier in the thread, but it's a little impressive that I ended the book actually believing in their relationship, because the first third-to-half of this book made me think they should just call the whole thing off

After the Billionaire's Wedding Vows by Lucy Monroe
Okay so I haven't actually finished this book but a podcast I like put it on their Best of 2021 List! ...and yes, the plot is literally what's in the title here, because this is a pure genre romance, and so it's very to-the-point and should be a pretty fast read.

Murder Most Actual by Alexis Hall
I haven't read this one either, but one of my favorite authors has written a glowing review. It's a murder mystery featuring a lesbian couple trying to rekindle their marriage while trying to figure out who the heck is killing people.

The other thing that comes to mind that might scratch your itch are romance series that center around a single couple. The first book in these series generally are still get-together books, but the remaining books usually complicate/expand upon that relationship. These are all MM though:
Adrien English Mysteries by Josh Lanyon
This is a mystery series featuring a bookseller and a closeted cop (yes, this becomes a problem) that was published in the 2000s. It's been a long time since I've touched these, but at the very least the goodread reviews from the last couple years say they hold up. They get together by the end of the first book, but the two really don't reach that ideal romantic ending until the end of the fifth book, so perhaps that might also be what you're looking for. If you try this and like it, feel free to either dig around Lanyon's back catalogue or ping me for more recommendations, because there's like 3 more mystery romance series starring a gay couple that I could go on about lol

The Wolf at the Door by Charlie Adhara
Yes, it is a werewolf series, so keep that in mind going in. I also haven't read any of these books (the first is on my TBR list), but the reviews seem pretty positive.

I think I could go on some more but I feel like I might've already gone overboard already. I hope at least one of these sounds like something you're interested in!

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

That sounds like a good start, thanks. Picked up the last three because they were cheap on the kobo store, will probably try the others as well, once I can set up Adobe DRM stuff on my e-reader again.

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
Cool, I hope you have a good time with them!

Unfortunately, I did a little checking up on the Adrien English series and found that the books have aged much worse than I remembered. There's some reviews complaining about authorial racism throughout the series, but the author also has a character use the n-word (uncensored) in the second book to show how 'backwards' he is. There's also a scene from chapter 15 of the first book where the protag sleeps with a guy out of self-preservation -- he technically gives consent, but it's also pretty clear he's not enthusiastic about it. The only excuse I have for not mentioning this is that it's been over a decade since I read these books, and that I read them when I was a dumb teenager. If any of this is a dealbreaker for you, i totally get it and apologize -- I think you should be able to return it to Kobo for a refund.

All of the other books I mentioned in my initial post should be fine, since they came out within the last five years.

kurona_bright fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 13, 2022

Pan Dulce
Jan 4, 2011

Beautiful cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure



Hel posted:

I've been frustrated by how romance is treated in a lot of other genres and media, where it's very often full of wheel spinning "Will they, Won't they" stuff until the story ends at the point where they get together. And then even if it gets a sequel they broken up, so they we can have the whole thing again. So I figured I'd go directly to the source and see if anyone here have any good recommendations for where to start with romance stories that are mostly about people being in relationships. Rocky relationships and even breaks ups are ok, as long as there actually was a relationship and it's not used just to have the same story over and over again.

I'm ok with it taking longer to get together if there are sequels that don't keep splitting them up. But other than that I'm mostly ok with whatever, F/F, M/F ,M/M ,Sex, no sex, paranormal, sci-fi whatever, figure I can start narrowing down my interests once I start reading more.

I have a couple of recommendations for marriage in trouble books that I've read recently that are drat good. The most recent being Q.B. Tyler's Forget Me Not. It's a M/F story of a married couple going through a divorce and being 6 months away from finalizing it before the husband gets in a car accident leading to head trauma leading to amnesia. He's forgotten the last 2 years of the marriage and, in his head, they're still happily in love. He doesn't understand how he could've cheated on his wife. While working through as much of that issue as possible, considering the cheating perpetrator can't remember his faults, they live with each other and learn to cope. It's drat good. Heartwrenching too. I said I'd never be into a cheating romance, but this broke my brain and my heart with how much I loved it.

Another book, which I recommended before, is Tessa Bailey's Love Her or Lose Her. That one's a marriage in trouble where the couple just isn't communicating as a couple anymore, except to have sex once a week, and finally the wife has enough and asks for a divorce. Instead, the husband, who on some level knew things were lovely, but loves her too much to consider letting her go, demands couple's therapy. They go to the hippiest, new-age therapist and learn their love languages to learn how to communicate again and better this time. This book is really good too.

The last book I have to recommend is The Bromance Book Club. It's about a couple who've had two daughters and love one another, but the wife confesses to her husband one day that most of the time, she fakes her orgasms with him. It humiliates him and he doesn't react well, leading to her asking for a separation. Desperate to get her back, he joins his friends in a book club where they read romance novels to learn how to interact better with women. In his case, throughout the book they comb through a historical romance novel of a marriage in trouble while he learns what his wife really needs. It's the cheesiest of the lot I'm recommending, but it has a cute charm.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

kurona_bright posted:

Cool, I hope you have a good time with them!

Unfortunately, I did a little checking up on the Adrien English series and found that the books have aged much worse than I remembered.

All of the other books I mentioned in my initial post should be fine, since they came out within the last five years.

Thanks for the warnings. Will probably be ok, because of them, but probably wouldn't like to have been blindsided.



Pan Dulce posted:

I have a couple of recommendations for marriage in trouble books that I've read recently that are drat good. The most recent being Q.B. Tyler's Forget Me Not. It's a M/F story of a married couple going through a divorce and being 6 months away from finalizing it before the husband gets in a car accident leading to head trauma leading to amnesia. He's forgotten the last 2 years of the marriage and, in his head, they're still happily in love. He doesn't understand how he could've cheated on his wife. While working through as much of that issue as possible, considering the cheating perpetrator can't remember his faults, they live with each other and learn to cope. It's drat good. Heartwrenching too. I said I'd never be into a cheating romance, but this broke my brain and my heart with how much I loved it.

Another book, which I recommended before, is Tessa Bailey's Love Her or Lose Her. That one's a marriage in trouble where the couple just isn't communicating as a couple anymore, except to have sex once a week, and finally the wife has enough and asks for a divorce. Instead, the husband, who on some level knew things were lovely, but loves her too much to consider letting her go, demands couple's therapy. They go to the hippiest, new-age therapist and learn their love languages to learn how to communicate again and better this time. This book is really good too.

The last book I have to recommend is The Bromance Book Club. It's about a couple who've had two daughters and love one another, but the wife confesses to her husband one day that most of the time, she fakes her orgasms with him. It humiliates him and he doesn't react well, leading to her asking for a separation. Desperate to get her back, he joins his friends in a book club where they read romance novels to learn how to interact better with women. In his case, throughout the book they comb through a historical romance novel of a marriage in trouble while he learns what his wife really needs. It's the cheesiest of the lot I'm recommending, but it has a cute charm.

These sound pretty interesting as well. I have two long train trips this week, so maybe I'll get around to them as well.

Syphilicious!
Jul 26, 2007
What's the point of 'werewolf romance' where the werewolf is in human form when he's coring out the protagonist? I think I'd want my money back.

run on sentience
Mar 22, 2022
Werewolf and other shifter romance can be fun but the market is highly saturated with dog dick omegaverse stuff so you have to do your research to avoid it, especially in queer romance. I'm not going to shame anyone for being into that and if you read werewolf romance, what do you expect really?

But I do think it really sucks that the queer fantasy romance market in general is so oversaturated with m/m bestiality fiction written by straight women for straight women. I've noticed a big increase in writing quality and much fewer dog dicks since I've been paying more attention to whether or not the author is queer themselves, which I should have been doing anyway to support queer authors.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


StrixNebulosa posted:

I just finished Nora Roberts' Island of Flowers and here's my review:

aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

okay so! I liked parts of this book - the heroine being a sweetly innocent tourist of Hawaii's natural wonders, learning to fly (in one sweet scene), swimming, more. I liked the housekeeper being a kind mother-figure to the heroine, and parts of the banter between heroine and hero.

But the hero R U I N S it. god he's an rear end in a top hat. The climax of the book is him attempting rape on the heroine, then blaming her for making him do it as he leaves in a fit of having a conscience.

Before that, he's just a raging rear end in a top hat.

See - the concept is, the heroine's parents divorced when she was seven and her mom took her to France, and promptly set to neglecting her. Her mom destroyed the letters her dad sent, kept the money, and let her believe that her dad abandoned her.

After her mom dies in an accident she flies out to Hawaii to find her dad, and immediately runs into the hero - who takes one look at her, hears that she's here to meet her dad, and he decides that she's clearly here to lie, cheat, steal, and hurt her father. He accuses her of being an actress, he interrupts every meeting between her and her father, doesn't let her go anywhere alone, and through the entire book accuses her of being a liar. Oh, he also forces kisses on her, too.

Early on she reveals that no, she's poor and the letters were burnt - and he calls her a liar.

So she decides that no, seriously, gently caress him, and decides to prove herself: she won't reveal that she's poor or explain the situation to her father. She'll be nice and wonderful for two weeks and leave without taking any money.

So it's almost, almost interesting - she's sweet and innocent and he begins to realize that she's actually the lost lamb she presents herself as, and he falls in love...

Until at the luau she slips off into the forest to sell a locket from her mother's collection because she's so broke she can't go home to France, and he catches her with the fellow, and later in privacy he accuses her of being a prostitute.

Yep. What the hell.

She, rightfully furious, refuses to explain herself, tells him to gently caress off, and he begins to force her back on the bed and rape her before he stops himself, accuses her of making him lose control, and leaves.

She rightfully goes "what the gently caress" and leaves the next day, and........

Cut to a three page epilogue where she's been back at her teaching job in France, doing alright with herself, when he shows up at her school, apologizes and explains how he found out that oh. she isn't a prostitute. and he apologizes and she just goes "okay" and expects him to leave. So he goes "no I love you and I want to take you home to Hawaii to marry you"

and I would have been over the moon if she had said no and seen him out

but this is a terrible book so she goes "oh! then marry me, THEN take me to hawaii!" and they're happy and the book ends

sigh

The book gets two stars because even this early on Nora Roberts is a solid writer, and I loved the flow of the prose and how descriptive and sweet the island was. But the rest of it... it's only salvaged by being 160 pages. If it had been longer I should have thrown it in the garbage.

Which really sucks because there could have been something sweet here! Have him believe her, have him not be an rear end in a top hat, and have this be a sweet tale of homecoming and love and luaus and learning to fly. I wanted that. But it's not what I got.

(PS I'm told Nora Roberts stops writing this kind of rear end in a top hat in the mid 90s, so I look forward to reading her modern stuff - which I'm already enjoying very much!)

Nora Roberts jumped on a dumb train a few years ago about how ghost writers are bad and was used by a couple of assholes in the industry to go on a witch hunt against any indies who used ghost writers, including doxxing a few trans writers (one of which I knew) for using a pen name. Not a big fan. Especially on the assertion that nobody was able to write a book or more a month. (this is of course not true, I have and know several other romance authors that can easily write a book in a month, a few can even do one in a week).

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


Pththya-lyi posted:

Well, romance generally also includes couples that live "happily for now" or HFN. I don't think that the genre actually needs expanding beyond that, any more than the mystery genre needs to expand beyond "the detective always solves the crime." Genre mainly exists for marketing reasons anyway, and people pick up romance because they know there's going to be a positive resolution. Throwing out the HEA/HFN genre convention means ripping the rug out from under people who are looking for some comfort in books. You can still find plenty of love stories that don't have HEAs or HFNs, they just won't be shelved in the Romance section.

No, the real problem is that one person's "romantic" is another person's "creepy, controlling, and/or emotionally immature." The solution is to read and write healthier romances, not to throw out genre.

Yes exactly. I write dark romance in the sense a often use military bad boys so in the books they sometimes kill people (bad guys) have trauma, but they always treat the lead as a queen. I refuse to write abusive guys and abusive behavior (flushing birth control, any striking,) as sexy. same goes for BDSM. it has to be clear, consent is a must, and safe words are always talked about. If they drink and gently caress, I always, always make sure it's after no more than two drinks, and I always have the heroine start it, and have the guy double check it's okay. I do write kidnapping scenes though because everyone finds them hot, and (it's always to keep our hero safe, even if she doesn't know it).

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


run on sentience posted:

Werewolf and other shifter romance can be fun but the market is highly saturated with dog dick omegaverse stuff so you have to do your research to avoid it, especially in queer romance. I'm not going to shame anyone for being into that and if you read werewolf romance, what do you expect really?

But I do think it really sucks that the queer fantasy romance market in general is so oversaturated with m/m bestiality fiction written by straight women for straight women. I've noticed a big increase in writing quality and much fewer dog dicks since I've been paying more attention to whether or not the author is queer themselves, which I should have been doing anyway to support queer authors.

See also that queer sex written by women is always, always clean. Messy gay guy hot sex is a sign the writer is a dude. (I should know, I was given a five star review on an old pen name for writing a hot m/m book because I put in plenty of butt stuff).

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

LionArcher posted:

Nora Roberts jumped on a dumb train a few years ago about how ghost writers are bad and was used by a couple of assholes in the industry to go on a witch hunt against any indies who used ghost writers, including doxxing a few trans writers (one of which I knew) for using a pen name. Not a big fan. Especially on the assertion that nobody was able to write a book or more a month. (this is of course not true, I have and know several other romance authors that can easily write a book in a month, a few can even do one in a week).

Huh?

Are you saying that Nora Roberts directly doxxed other authors? I'd like to see a source on that.

I know she's angrily anti-ghost writer, I read some of her blogs on that and I can see her getting mad at that, especially if you put in the work to write your books yourself. (And when there's James Patterson's whole Thing floating around)

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


StrixNebulosa posted:

Huh?

Are you saying that Nora Roberts directly doxxed other authors? I'd like to see a source on that.

I know she's angrily anti-ghost writer, I read some of her blogs on that and I can see her getting mad at that, especially if you put in the work to write your books yourself. (And when there's James Patterson's whole Thing floating around)

No, not at all. She was sort of convinced by some shady people that all (or a lot) of ghost writer using small publishers were scammers. She herself didn't do any doxxing. But she gave air to a lot of small author's who were perfectly fine doxxing. (Usually writers who had one or two hits and then it sort of dried up when they stopped writing as much/to market.). Personally, one of the reasons I've never used a ghost writer is because the amount of work it takes to clean up other's work make sure they aren't just plagiarizing something from fan fiction was as much work as just writing a new book myself.

As a writer, I have nothing but respect for her, it just sucks she got swept up with a bad crowd in a space (indie publishing) that she was not very familiar with. Luckily that was a few years ago, and it's died down. Still sucks for folks I know who had to scramble.

LionArcher fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jul 16, 2022

Pan Dulce
Jan 4, 2011

Beautiful cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure



Any recommendations for M/F paranormal books? I've read Juliette Cross' Stay A Spell series and love it and kind of want a hot, sweet vampire or werewolf novel. Please, no dark romances and no Black Dagger Brotherhood.

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013

Pan Dulce posted:

Any recommendations for M/F paranormal books? I've read Juliette Cross' Stay A Spell series and love it and kind of want a hot, sweet vampire or werewolf novel. Please, no dark romances and no Black Dagger Brotherhood.

Mating the Huntress by Talia Hibbert was a pretty light & fun werewolf romance. It's technically Halloween-themed but I don't think that should matter

If you're willing to branch out from werewolves into shifters, Nalini Singh's Psy/Changling series and Thea Harrison's Elder Races might work for you. There's generally some death and bad stuff happening in the books, but the romances between the leads are generally more lighthearted imo (granted, I've only read the first book of the Elder Races series)

dino.
Mar 28, 2010

Yip Yip, bitch.

comforthawk posted:

I've been plowing through books again, and I return with a few gems!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58611361-the-necromancer-s-light
a very dnd-esque touch-starved necromancer and big soft meathead paladin romance. tickled my brain in ALL the right ways. second installment comes out in a few days apparently?? SA user comforthawk, excited for a book publication?? my jaded heart is warm and cozy.

The real gem is you for suggesting this book. I loved it! Ploughed through it in a day. The characters are multi dimensional and have layers. Like an ogre. Oh man it’s such a nice read.

I’m dubious about the second one because the consent seems iffy at best. Can you tell me what you thought of it?

Like someone else mentioned upstream, I don’t care for those rapist/kidnapper to lover tropes. They make me really uncomfortable. And also, the kid is freaking 18. It’s setting off red flags.

Enfys
Feb 17, 2013

The ocean is calling and I must go

dino. posted:

The real gem is you for suggesting this book. I loved it! Ploughed through it in a day. The characters are multi dimensional and have layers. Like an ogre. Oh man it’s such a nice read.

I’m dubious about the second one because the consent seems iffy at best. Can you tell me what you thought of it?

Like someone else mentioned upstream, I don’t care for those rapist/kidnapper to lover tropes. They make me really uncomfortable. And also, the kid is freaking 18. It’s setting off red flags.

I read one of her other books recently and really enjoyed it, and consent is very explicit:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61119352-prince-and-assassin

The second one is being released in about a month, and I'm looking forward to it.

comforthawk posted:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17791691-dragon-slayer
a little sad that there appears to be just the one--the world itself seemed interesting. court/political intrigue and dragons, but the real star of the show here is how sweet the romance between the main characters is like, from the get-go? like, lord mallory's kind and sweet to ingram throughout, no weird ramp-up of being a dick to your arranged husband like it's some kinda hazing ritual. refreshing!


I really want to read this but can't find it anywhere :(

dino.
Mar 28, 2010

Yip Yip, bitch.
Started reading the 2nd one and it looks legit.

comforthawk
Apr 15, 2018

messaged you, Enfys

also yea sorry dino. I kinda melted and didn't check this thread; I hope you enjoyed tavia lark's 2nd book [and 3rd! 3rd book's out too] in the series. I think enjoyment there really relied on like, the reader's willingness to understand and/or maybe forgive ronan for what he did to arthur

TODAY I'm settling in with lily mayne's seraph which is book six in the series, which has been pleasantly and reliably formulaic so far--Some Guy and Some Guy Who Happens To Be An Extraplanar Entity overcome trials and fall in love and there is probably An Interesting Genital Situation Of Some Sort

Vienna Circlejerk
Jan 28, 2003

The great science sausage party!
I never thought I'd be posting in the romance thread but I just read The Price of Salt (aka Carol) by Patricia Highsmith and I was just blown away by how much I was moved by this 1950s lesbian romance. It's definitely not lesbian pulp, there isn't even anything I would call a sex scene, just a very powerful and emotional romance in the face of repressive poo poo.

I was really drawn into the way the younger main character, Therese, described her growing infatuation with the older love interest, Carol, and then the problems of the power dynamics where Carol could have the relationship entirely on her terms until suddenly she couldn't. So it went from will they/won't they to teetering on the edge of heartbreak, and actual heartbreak, and then a hopeful conclusion that I found extremely satisfying because of the growth of both characters that had to happen to even make it possible. Plus it had a 1950s drive across America in a big car, and this absolute gem of text:

quote:

"Therese—"
Therese turned around, and Carol's beauty struck her like a glimpse of Winged Victory of Samothrace. Carol asked her if she thought they should buy a whole ham.
I did find some of the prose a little clunky in the beginning; Highsmith is prone to abrupt transitions I find jarring. But once Therese and Carol start interacting, the prose flows really well, and you can tell Highsmith is writing from her heart here.

The novel was made into the film Carol in 2015 which I had no idea about because I'm so oblivious to movies but I'm definitely checking it out, apparently it's considered very good. Anyway I'm trying to figure out if what I now, apparently, need a lot more of in my life, are stories of queer romance or stories of queer awakening. Maybe both, combined. Pulled a few suggestions from this thread but any further recommendations are welcome. Definitely want emotional stories, not a lot of sex scenes, and while I do enjoy fantasy I think I want to stick to realism for this.

Vienna Circlejerk fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Sep 19, 2022

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
I don't generally go for queer awakening stories, but these were the ones that came to mind for me. Hopefully someone else has more suggestions?

Our Dreams at Dusk:
This is not romance. It's not even traditional prose. It's a manga by a queer author (in 4 volumes) about a high school boy struggling with his sexuality stumbling across what is essentially a queer community center. While the protag is in high school, the story also explores the lives of other visitors to the center, many of which are adults who still haven't figured everything out. It does feature societal homophobia, liberal uses of 'homo', and one notable use of the f-slur (in the second volume), but I really recommend giving it at least a good try.

Band Sinister:
...I realize that KJ Charles has come up a lot in this thread. But I don't think this one has been mentioned, and hey, this is a historical romance featuring a rather uptight, anxious, sheltered hero getting shoved into a completely new and bewildering environment, and finding it in himself to expand his horizons and fall for (perhaps unwisely) a rather scandalous gentleman. There are sex scenes, but you can probably skim them and still make sense of everything else.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

I got my bookmail in, and... not only did this book arrive as the wrong edition, it looks like it's been drawn on. :negative:

dino.
Mar 28, 2010

Yip Yip, bitch.
Why is that kitty stoned?

DrNewton
Feb 27, 2011

Monsieur Murdoch Fan Club

Pththya-lyi posted:



No, the real problem is that one person's "romantic" is another person's "creepy, controlling, and/or emotionally immature." The solution is to read and write healthier romances, not to throw out genre.

This. I like a good healthy romance book. When I left my bookstore job in 2020 there was an uptake in healthy relationship romance books coming out. The genre is changing for sure but as long as grandma hazel is alive, there will still be a lot of problematic books around.

newts
Oct 10, 2012
Hey romance goons,

I’m posting here today because I’ve finished the first book in an urban fantasy series and I’d love to find some beta readers to test drive it. This book features a m/m romance as the fairly substantial B-plot. That’s the aspect of the book I’m seeking your very insightful feedback on. Well, along with everything else. And that’s why I’m posting here and not in the Urban Fantasy Thread (and also because they feel icky feelings when they read about sex).

The book has been fully edited and read by very discerning goons (my writing group). Full disclosure: I am not a gay man (I am a bi lady). I’ve written and self-published two novels so far. There is a lot of swearing in this book and some explicit sex. Not much violence because I’m not a fan, and hopefully not too many of the worst romance tropes. I’m basically just asking for reader impressions. Do you like the characters? Does the story work? Is the romance believable? Is the sex hot (or not)? Stuff like that.

If you want something read in return, or some small art made for you (behold, my stuff: https://bluefootedb.tumblr.com/) I would be happy to provide. You’ll also be credited (or not, if you prefer) in the finished and published book.

Le blurb:

quote:

Run away to a small coastal town. Leave your dark past behind. Start over.

It was a pretty good plan. And Jack Parker is happy living the boring life of a small-town bookstore owner. A life outside of the world of magic. But when a new ghost shows up on his doorstep, followed by an irritatingly attractive detective investigating the murder of his partner, Jack knows his dream of a quiet life is about to magically disappear.

Because Detective Richard Zuraw is about to pull him back into the world he hoped he’d left behind. A world of warring magical houses, powerful talismans, and crazy cultists who would rather kill a mage like Jack than talk to him.

Can Jack and Richard work together to stop the coming apocalypse? And if not, can Jack at least figure out how to get into the detective's pants before the whole drat world ends?

Sample chapters

If you’re interested, just let me know and I’ll post (and then delete) a clean doc link for you (I don’t have dms).

Thanks!

newts fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Feb 1, 2023

dino.
Mar 28, 2010

Yip Yip, bitch.
Uh yeah. Sounds gay, I’m in.

newts
Oct 10, 2012

dino. posted:

Uh yeah. Sounds gay, I’m in.

Sweet. Here’s a doc for you: deleted

Let me know when you’ve got it and I’ll delete the link. And thanks!

newts fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Feb 3, 2023

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
Would it be all right if I took a look as well? The blurb sounds interesting to me.

dino.
Mar 28, 2010

Yip Yip, bitch.

newts posted:

Sweet. Here’s a doc for you: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Revtf97JXwZZYAtZKhEyF3ZnHZSjHu29sTYrMh7jsfo/edit

Let me know when you’ve got it and I’ll delete the link. And thanks!

Got it. I downloaded the ePub so I can read it on my phone during breaks and junk.

newts
Oct 10, 2012

kurona_bright posted:

Would it be all right if I took a look as well? The blurb sounds interesting to me.

I would love to have more eyes on it!

Let me know when you’ve got it and I’ll delete it. Thank you!

newts fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Feb 4, 2023

newts
Oct 10, 2012

dino. posted:

Got it. I downloaded the ePub so I can read it on my phone during breaks and junk.

Thank you! Really appreciate the help.

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dino.
Mar 28, 2010

Yip Yip, bitch.

newts posted:

Thank you! Really appreciate the help.

Leaving notes for you as I read through. They’re mostly my thoughts. Don’t need to take them seriously.

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