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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

AtomikKrab posted:

I don't mind it, It is the sweet sound of suffering.
I think I'm on your side in this one - I love the metroidvania genre but never felt any particular fondness for the Metroid games and controls are a huge part of it. All the (three) Metroids I played felt really odd and unresponsive. Then there's the needlessly convoluted way to fire missiles, as well as the stupid diagonal aiming (at least they got rid of that one)... Space jump clicked eventually but it is incredibly unintuitive.

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The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



Dread can be tricky since it uses *all the buttons* and that's a lot of finger positions for your brain to keep track of (I admit sometimes I semi-forget I can do things I haven't needed to do for a while), but I actually have a much easier time in dread than in some other games that use all the buttons, especially ones that have less switch-type uses for the triggers.

SL the Pyro
Jun 16, 2013

My soul cries out
with the desire to
FRACTURE
your puny spine.


what do you mean that hotkey disappeared
I didn't have too much trouble with Dread's control scheme, but a couple parts did their level best to give me grief until the very end. Constantly mixing up the Missile and Grapple Beam buttons is probably just a personal mistake, but putting the Speed Booster on a Control Stick Button was something I found incredibly awkward.

Gripes aside though, I will say that Dread has Samus' movement as the smoothest and most responsive it's ever been, so any issues with the controls fall squarely on the player's side. (Except for Shinespark puzzles. Those are still arcane voodoo and probably always will be.)

SL the Pyro fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Nov 25, 2021

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Donno if you recognized our old pal Z-57, last we saw it was in the laboratory section getting zapped by probes. Before it got X-ed.

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God
Metroid Designer 1: How do we make Natural 20's life suffering
Metroid Designer 2: Space jump flappy bird!


Tea: "Thinking too much is never a problem for you"
Me: *remembers Super Metroid where Nat got stuck for 20 minutes thinking the solution definitely must be more complicated than ducking and shooting*

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Screw attack basically kills everything. Even the Chozo robots die really quickly to it.

SL the Pyro
Jun 16, 2013

My soul cries out
with the desire to
FRACTURE
your puny spine.


what do you mean that hotkey disappeared
Funny thing about the Screw Attack: it says it works on "enemies cloaked in electrical energy".

If you'll recall, Escue was cloaked in electrical energy.

Basically if you get the Screw Attack early via sequence breaking and enter the boss room with a Speed Booster charge, Escue becomes a loving joke.

The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



I'm glad you got Experiment's counter, it's one of the best counter attack animations in the game.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

I think that might have been a power bomb tease? The attack that killed you during that 4 tentacles on the wall sequence looked like a bomb (you can see it in the succesfull run)

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Its actually an energy drain attack, you can tell by how its pulling energy down its limbs, and you got teasers from those other big enemies in the past.

Nat shot out its arms on the successful run before it could start draining.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

AtomikKrab posted:

Its actually an energy drain attack, you can tell by how its pulling energy down its limbs, and you got teasers from those other big enemies in the past.

Nat shot out its arms on the successful run before it could start draining.

You see what I'm talking about at slightly later than 4:55 (timestamped link to Nat's video).
Nat moves away and a bright spot where he was becomes visible.

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

SL the Pyro posted:

Basically if you get the Screw Attack early via sequence breaking and enter the boss room with a Speed Booster charge, Escue becomes a loving joke.

Speaking of Speed Booster making bosses a joke: :v:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgLY7s8n0Kg

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

That's just mean.

Although that's a good showing of that ability during the four tentacles phase. It's a sort of beam from the mouth that creates an explosion after some painting time.

So that core X that dissolved into lava might have carried power bomb, some sort of beam upgrade, or an unknown powerup not appearing in this game (because it just got melted)

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Omobono posted:

That's just mean.

Although that's a good showing of that ability during the four tentacles phase. It's a sort of beam from the mouth that creates an explosion after some painting time.

So that core X that dissolved into lava might have carried power bomb, some sort of beam upgrade, or an unknown powerup not appearing in this game (because it just got melted)

Also apparently even X cannot survive magma, which might be a bit of a reveal on how Raven Beak contained the outbreak, He might have flooded parts of the complex to drive the X into Elun

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

AtomikKrab posted:

Also apparently even X cannot survive magma, which might be a bit of a reveal on how Raven Beak contained the outbreak, He might have flooded parts of the complex to drive the X into Elun

It is conveniently built for doing that isn't it?

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

The Lone Badger posted:

It is conveniently built for doing that isn't it?

Raven Beak is the king of a warrior tribe of the Chozo and even Quiet Robe (a member of the scientific caste) stated Raven Beak is extremely intelligent. I would not be surprised if the Mawkin tribe had set things up like that as a defensive measure.

Also potentially if the lava does that, that means there is an upper limit to an X parasites durability when exposed to high energy reactions and well Raven beak has a huge laser cannon on his arm.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

So what you're saying is that Raven Beak is actually a dwarf.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

So what you're saying is Samus is

The Lone Badger posted:

So what you're saying is that Raven Beak is actually a dwarf.

exploring Boatmurdered goddammit beaten

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

...what?

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

That was very strange. I have no idea what happened.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles
My guess would be the EMMI was too close to the ledge, so when you slide under it and stood up on the other side, you hadn't fully cleared the EMMI, putting you inside it, and then the game kills you as a failsafe since it can't generate an animation?

SL the Pyro
Jun 16, 2013

My soul cries out
with the desire to
FRACTURE
your puny spine.


what do you mean that hotkey disappeared


...I have no idea where Golzuna's head is supposed to be, so I just guessed.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

I assume Nat hit the emmi just after sliding under it and it glitched into an instakill skipping animations.

Glad to see Samus ate Bomberman while she was taking her vacation in Smash*, his bombs do round out her arsenal.
*Is Bomberman in Smash?

Do you think she trained under Kirby to control her Metroid powers?

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

SL the Pyro posted:



...I have no idea where Golzuna's head is supposed to be, so I just guessed.

You got it backwards. The head is near the small legs. The big legs are used for attacking.

The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



SL the Pyro posted:



...I have no idea where Golzuna's head is supposed to be, so I just guessed.

Golzuna's head, like all of the monsters of that body plan, is on the small nubbin end (they fight with their butts). The easiest way to survive its boss fight is to midair flash step over it while it's setting up its bullet hell patterns, so you can be on the other side while they go off - though, even easier, that room is JUST long enough to build up a speed booster in for shinespark kills. Also, you can fight Golzuna quite early if you solve that one sparkball trick for a missile tank like you did, but then don't stop and keep going out into that tall room.

I know that traditionally the wave beam came before the plasma beam, but I definitely feel that the way level design has evolved it makes more sense for shooting through walls to be a bigger deal than shooting through multiple enemies. Especially with the high amount of beam-interactable things in walls that the wave beam allows to be done in the reverse direction.


Bomberman is in smash as an assist trophy and deluxe mii costume, but not as a full fighter. So, More than Waluigi, less than Chrom.

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012

pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is
For what it's worth, the game's collision is pretty strict, and basically any kind of out-of-bounds will instantly kill you, so whatever happened with the EMMI there is probably a result of that.

(This makes some of the speedruns for this game somewhat interesting because you can clip through floors with some effort, but the success rate on said clips is not that great.)

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

The Golux posted:

I know that traditionally the wave beam came before the plasma beam, but I definitely feel that the way level design has evolved it makes more sense for shooting through walls to be a bigger deal than shooting through multiple enemies. Especially with the high amount of beam-interactable things in walls that the wave beam allows to be done in the reverse direction.


It fits the design. In other games it's usually a big room full of enemies so plasma clears those out. And this game has those as well (super missiles give splash damage when you're dealing with the swarms of flies, for example) but has a lot more walls getting in the way. So they're keys to different obstacles and the design supports putting the one you don't have in the way.

Heck, in Dread I don't think I ever care about Plasma piercing enemies, I care about it damaging metal enemies without a charge.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

*Exhales*

So... yeah that happened. SEVERAL TIMES.

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God
Alright, place your bets... how many videos will it take them to beat Raven Beak?

On Adam, I always found him calling you "Lady" super jarring, so I got pretty suspicious when he suddenly switched to calling you Samus.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

"My daughter, I was the source of your DNA."
"So were at least six other things and they were all better parents than you. Including the X."


Bremen posted:

On Adam, I always found him calling you "Lady" super jarring, so I got pretty suspicious when he suddenly switched to calling you Samus.

Also the general tone. "This is all part of Raven Beak's brilliant plan. He's so cool and powerful and sexy, even at your best you're nothing compared to him."

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bruceski posted:

Also the general tone. "This is all part of Raven Beak's brilliant plan. He's so cool and powerful and sexy, even at your best you're nothing compared to him."

I feel like this was a cue off of Fusion. ADAM is similarly pessimistic about your changes against the SAX, so you're kinda expecting ahead of time for him to make a similar prediction again

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Tea hit the nail on the head about Samus.

The whole game has been Dread.

First dreading evading and dealing with EMMIs.

Then EMMIs stopped being a big deal.

Then the Chozo Robot was a problem. 2 fights in quick succession showed how much of a threat they were. A few upgrades later and even with 2 of them weren't a problem any more.

Then the Chozo X were a dread.

What could be more dreadful than all those things?

The one that destroyed them all. The first time I fought the Chozo X I really didn't like how you had to do 2 counter attacks to end the fight. Then this happens and I really didn't like it :stonk:

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Bremen posted:

Alright, place your bets... how many videos will it take them to beat Raven Beak?

The answer may surprise you.

Zernach
Oct 23, 2012
So that powerup that stumped you, doors stay open for a certain time before closing, right?

you can shoot the door open from the other room through the walls, get into the comms room and the door will still be open

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Or you can do what I did, reload my save and avoid dropping the power bomb.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Well at least Raven Beak is honest about his intentions

Also he is an idiot,

he should have just killed Samus when she was unconscious and salvaged what he could.

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Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Tea is such a big fan of Fusion I'm surprised he wasn't immediately suspicious when ADAM called her "Samus" at the very start of the game. Especially since the real ADAM calls her "Lady" when she's in orbit above the planet, and when she's on the elevator going down into the planet.

AtomikKrab posted:

he should have just killed Samus when she was unconscious and salvaged what he could.

Honestly yeah, he could have taken the Metroid DNA right away and used Quiet Robe to keep any Metroids he cloned under control, but I think that's not really what he wanted. He knew Samus was already incredibly powerful even before she got the Metroid DNA. He didn't want just regular Metroids, especially since Samus would still be around and be able to defeat them like she's done in the past. He wanted her, the ultimate Metroid as his lapdog.

To be fair this does ignore the fact that if you get caught by an EMMI they do kill Samus, which I guess is a little bit of story and gameplay incongruity. Or I guess you can take it as "Samus isn't as good as Raven Beak thought she was but hey at least he gets Metroid DNA as a consolation prize and she won't be around to stop him."

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