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Immediate impression after two incomplete runs on Hard: I wish this had Genocide from Nethack and I could choose to completely eliminate an enemy type, because Fanatics are very unfun. If you hit the 1/3 chance and they get Exert instead of Pain, then you're definitely losing characters, and 13 HP makes them utterly impossible to rush down. The one Fanatic encounters are doable, two Fanatic encounters are incredibly likely to just kill you. (Edit) Less kneejerk thoughts after a third: - I think the yellow Scrapper class might be my favorite in the game so far, and it's probably also the only tier 2 class I've seen that I'd choose not to promote. The reusable Charged side is usually amazing (especially if you get extra mana capacity items), and if you get Bard or Poet then the Steel sides can do work. - Speaking of which, the Charged shield side on Bard makes it a lot more fun. That said, it feels like it's otherwise weak. - Scoundrel should not be a tier 1 class. Having a tier 1 class with 2/3 empty sides makes the start of the game feel so much worse. - I don't like Student, either: it's a tier 1 with no real mana gen, and the three-mana spell makes that worse. - I think I'm leaning towards liking Ruffian, by virtue of the Pain side making for interesting decisions, but it's incredibly feast-or-famine. - It feels like enemy summoning has been buffed? If so, please put it back. I had a Hard fight where Reinforcements got up in the double digits. - Poet is great! I like having a tier 3 Bard, and all its sides are interesting. - Wizard is another blue that's weirdly bad at mana gen, especially if you don't get that perma-boost side early. Inspire can do some amazing things, but without items that's all it has to recommend it. - Forsaken is... actually good now, I think? Weird feeling. Einander fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 19:49
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 01:51 |
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Challenges are the "accept this condition for the next fight and get an item" mechanic, right? Are they bugged out right now? I noticed that there's a monster that unlocks with three Challenges but I don't think I've seen a single one so far, and IIRC you had to open them and accept/deny to move forward in the previous version, so I don't think I've missed them... (Using the itch.io version, in case that matters) I really like Gather and Glow as spells, particularly Glow. 3 Heal + 3 Shield is quite powerful, and there were times I was deliberately rolling empty sides to take advantage of that spell, which is a sign it's in a good place. New items are all good so far. The tier 2 item Whey is particularly great for that tier if you get it on a meaty heal or shield side, and both the Underdog and Overdog items are cool. Current version of Jester makes me sad. Post-nerf Flick is practically a dead spell, just by virtue of the Cooldown on it--virtually any other tier 2 spell would be better in the slot, and Jester doesn't have much else unless you want the reroll for Cantrips or safety. The fact it feels like one of the better blue classes still is not great. Generate is missing something as a mode right now, in part because it seems to be selecting entirely from preexisting abilities when constructing characters. As a result characters are mostly at about the standard level of power or a little lower, because they're not guaranteed to have any of the particularly powerful sides; I felt like I was limping along during both of my runs. If you get 3/4 through a randomizer and you never stop and say, "wow, that's broken," in a good or bad sense, then it's not a very interesting one.
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Sep 6, 2022 04:18
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Beat Generate yesterday. It feels like the key is getting Steel or Charged, and preferably Charged Shield into a Steel attack, because a lot of the time the generated numbers are garbage. I wish that unlocking a certain number of classes gave you three class choices per upgrade rather than two. It feels like half of the tier 3 greys lead me to immediately pick the other option, no matter how bad it is. goferchan posted:Has anyone found a broken combo involving a "tier zero" item yet? I just know they're out there... it's so hard to pass up the reward that gives you 4 of them RoboCicero posted:Tier 0 items are very funny, but the only ones I can really think of is using the rorriM tekcoP with Eccentric or Leather Gloves to multiply copy that side. Urn + Hissing Ring works properly (Quad Strike, 2 poison). Also got me the Chaos achievement, since I also had a Wraith.
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Sep 10, 2022 01:56
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Two bugs regarding unlocks: had a Generated hero show up while the "5% generated heroes" option was off (but unlocked). I also unlocked the Jinx enemy for getting 7 curses in a run, but I know I'd fought Jinxes before then. Also, got to say, not a fan of the Jinxes. Had a Blursed run nearly end in the 50s because one generated with "all enemies have Pristine" and both summoned Bones; their sides are just way too liable to utterly explode if anything adds to their pips and too likely to murder your whole team if anything tanks your durability, and a lot of powerful curses do either of those. Still won because Demon Claw on a Steel attack side covers a multitude of sins, but that was way too close.
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Sep 10, 2022 03:06
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Hmm. In theory I like the Spellblade getting Copycat now, but 1 damage Copycat is bad! Weaken or Poison or Charged are its best use cases (or Steel, if it's Steel defense so that you're not trying to split a damage boost across two characters), and it's not doing any of those very well at that power. Even if it was two damage, it'd still only be pretty good, and Spellblade is real bad otherwise. It's bad enough that making its spell once a round instead of once a fight would probably still leave it one of the worst oranges, and that spell effect is great. Similarly, Collector getting a 1 damage Duplicate is very weird. 1 damage Duplicate might even be worse than a normal 1 side or a blank, because it forces you to play that side last and denies you synergies with "replace blank side" effects. It has Urn synergies, but that's about it. Is it intentional that redirect effects no longer redirect damage from Pain? It feels like that makes the Pain-based Yellows and the redirect Greys much worse, especially at tier 1. I like that enemy Fanatics have just Pain sides now, it makes larger numbers of them much more manageable.
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Oct 3, 2022 19:27
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Arzaac posted:I think a 2 damage copycat would be busted on Spellblade. Then you start getting into sides you really only see on tier 3 heroes: 2 damage poison, 2 damage cleave, 2 damage weaken. 1 damage copycat might not be super exciting but it's versatile. Setting aside the question of, "is it busted" for a moment: if Spellblade had a two-power Copycat, where would it rank in the list of orange tier 2 characters? Because my feeling is that it'd still be in the middle at most. In particular, you're giving up your party's access to ranged damage and exchanging damage for utility, which is always a risky bet on one of your damage characters... And if you want to exchange damage for utility, Dabbler is better at that. As is, Spellblade has two okay sides, two bad sides, and two really bad sides, and exchanging one "okay" for one "busted" puts it somewhere around Gambler. Personally speaking, I know I avoid Gambler like the plague, so I don't consider this a ringing endorsement. And I don't think it would actually be busted, again because of party compositions. Where can you get poison in t2? Oranges, mostly, but it's available on the other colors... As a once-per-battle effect, or from an item that replaces your center side, which is always filled and generally a pretty good spot on the die. (Also, it's dependent on an item, and item combos SHOULD be good!) Weaken is once-per-battle or from Fey, which is the t2 Red that can't heal (1 heals do not count) or cleanse, and if you have Spellblade you don't have Dabbler. Fey isn't BAD, but it's a risky tech play that's very party-dependent. Cleave requires Whirl, who has always been one of the weaker yellows (and Spellblade is also generally low damage, so Whirl + Spellblade is officially Entering the Danger Zone), or Collector, where it's a 1/6. Charged is only repeatable from Bard, with one once-per-battle availability from a blue. Steel defense is available from a grey, and it's a bad grey. (As mentioned, Steel attack is not that useful for Copycat unless you have some way of multi-targeting strong shields, and that's usually an item combo.)
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Oct 4, 2022 00:01
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Tann posted:Fun to read the discussion, spellblade is quite polarising on discord too. The reason I changed them was to make the colour-identity a bit stricter, which also affects generated heroes. See, that's kind of the crux of it, because I agree with that 100%. "Having copycat is as good as having cleave" is a literally perfect metaphor! I just think we vastly disagree on what that metaphor is saying.  Damage Cleave is mostly stuck around at tier 2 at one damage point, and it's bad! The expected damage on that kind of cleave is 1 with a possible "invested" extra 2, if there's two enemies and if you can kill the first enemy in a timely fashion and if the other targets don't regenerate and if they don't have retaliation. (If there's imps or spikers or especially if there's Thorns, the utility on Cleave can pretty easily go negative... But ignoring that for a second.) A one-damage side at tier 2 is bad damage, but that extra 2 damage doesn't materialize until you can start killing the other enemies you're hitting. That two extra damage on the other two targets basically has the Future keyword from the Seer's spell: next turn it might be useful, and you're getting extra value in exchange for deferring it, but on the current turn it's not actually doing anything for you. You're also still in tier 2, so it's pretty likely you don't have any way to boost the power on those sides until late in the tier, if you ever can. Cleave 2 is theoretically much better. The problem is that it's literally twice as good and you're at tier 2 where 2 damage isn't bad, so the balance errs on the side of caution and sticks the dice with it on Cleave 1 instead. So in my eyes, it's detrimental to those characters to have Cleave on their sides at all. The Cleave side is the Collector's worst by a pretty big margin, for example. (And I consider Exert a very large penalty.) I think that versions of Whirl or Collector that replace those Cleave sides with Damage 2 would be better in a lot of contexts! (Edit: Wait, I forgot that Collector has the Duplicate 1 side now. That's the worst side on Collector by a lot.) A tier 2 Copycat is similarly hamstrung by there being no easy way to gently adjust it. Copycat 1 is weak, but Copycat 2 might be very strong, so lean on the side of balance and give Spellblade Copycat 1. But Spellblade and Whirl are weak classes in general, so in the context Cleave 2 and Copycat 2 wouldn't make them amazing, it'd just give players a reason to pick them. Einander fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Oct 4, 2022 |
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Oct 4, 2022 02:04
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Overkilling a Caw between two Bandits appears to only cause the top one to flee. I checked that it works properly when other enemies are between the Bandits, but not with a Caw. (Maybe the "move to the back on damage" script interrupts the Bandit overkill check?) The Path To True Ultimate Power: unlock Generated heroes in the beta version of 2.0, turn option on, use a Custom Party, load up current 2.0, begin Custom Party with your new party of five Glitches, upgrade your Glitches to tier 5 and then tier 6 generated blue heroes, enjoy your guaranteed 15+ HP and horrifying mana generation. (I did load up the beta after doing a run or two of the current version, which may have something to do with the Glitches appearing?) That was the goofiest Hard run I have ever done. The "Bones appear on enemy death" Curse is a lot of fun, and it adds some serious tension to getting the Alpha boss. Past a certain point it feels more beneficial to you than to the enemy side, though: the free +1 damage to enemies adds up (and provides a good way to kill ranged enemies or weakened Caws), and from mid t2 onward it's pretty trivial to kill the Bones before they actually threaten you. That Unfair run was easier than most of the Hard runs I've done.
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Oct 5, 2022 06:47
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My main problem with Twin is that Twin is a Gray and that almost every gimmick it can do makes it act like a non-Gray, so you're forced to play more offensively. And sure, that's usually good against the Dragon or the Hand, but against Hexia most teams should take their time. A 1/3 chance of this already fairly niche character being useless on the last big hurdle is not great, so I'd rather just take one of the three Grays good at doing Gray things (Valkyrie, Stalwart, Poet) and hedge my bets. If Twin was a Yellow or a Blue, then I'd pick them way more often. This is also my problem with Mimic. I don't like the set-up of the tier 3 Grays in general, really.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:21
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redleader posted:poet? really? what am i missing? The two cantrip shields are pretty nothing unless you have multiple sources of cantrip reroll and/or boosted rerolls (at which point you've probably won the run and don't really need the shields), but the four remaining sides are all great. Target-all shield doesn't seem like much, but it tends to get you over the line to have everyone survive a round, at which point you can go more offensively with the others. Dice refresh is great any time you don't need shields, particularly for getting over kill or mana thresholds. The Charged Shield side provides some of the beefiest single-target shields for blocking big hits and makes the Poet the best at supporting Pain sides, damage Steel sides and Copycat sides. (And at keeping your Blues or melees alive through Hexia.) If you have Ninja as your T2 Orange and/or Scrapper as your T2 Yellow and you roll Poet for your Gray, there's a pretty strong argument for just never upgrading them to T3, because there aren't better Copycat or damage Steel sources in T3 and the raw side values don't mean much to those keywords.
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Nov 26, 2022 07:18
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The Topsy-Turvy effect (replace every character's dice with the dice of the character above them) really should be a one-time shuffle rather than an ongoing one. Some of the Greens would be great to keep on if they could get another, more useful die and have the original green's die get discarded by a promotion. (Cats or Statues, for example. Though you don't really get to choose whether you keep a cat...) Making it ongoing instead removes all of the interesting tricks you can pull with it.
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Mar 22, 2024 23:53
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Wait, Bard traded the Charged Shield side for a Cantrip Attack? What in the world happened there? It had all the obvious synergies and it also made Copycat much stronger; I only ever really bothered taking a Ninja if I had a Bard or a character with Steel. Bard is way less valuable and way less interesting now and that really sucks. 
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Mar 23, 2024 00:53
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The Choose Party Masochist secret is bugged. I did Choose Party on Unfair with five greens (four cats, Spade in the middle) and it triggered the secret unlock after the win. I definitely haven't played that mode enough for that condition.
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Mar 26, 2024 20:58
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Ace is fine as a late team comp pick if you're offered it third or later; there's a fair number of characters with multiple three-pip sides and it normally isn't too hard to fish out one two-pip. Spell is good, too. In particular it really shone on a run where I also had a Doctor, whose double-use three-pip heal fuels Ace's Trio 3 all by itself and who has a two-pip heal/mana side. Ace doesn't need item support to function, which puts it above Artificer and Ghast. Probably about on the same level as Sorcerer and Chronos? I'd say Weaver is probably the worst Blue outside of multiple-Blue parties.
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Mar 27, 2024 21:14
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All Blues is going to be way harder now that the big demons have the two "must take this HP with dice" breakpoints. They seem to be particularly designed to counter mono blue-style death-or-glory tactics. (And also generated monogreen versions of the same, considering damage Tactics.)
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Mar 28, 2024 03:17
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Quackles posted:Gave you money Shielding works as well as healing, and if you kill an enemy that would have contributed to the fatal damage and they survive as a result, then that also activates the halo. Selfshield would never give it to the Pilgrim, though; that 'add selfshield' side just adds the keyword to the dice, so the person who uses the die is considered responsible for any affects that activate as a result.
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Mar 28, 2024 05:47
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the holy poopacy posted:It only kicks in when both conditions are met, it does nothing if you are dying but have more than 1 HP. At worst it's effectively -1 HP, except you still get to take a final turn after hitting 1 HP and may even have a chance to save yourself still. Does hurt worse on cantrip heroes though. There's two different Sickly 1-points, with a difference in the name I can't remember right now. One is just the "Pain at 1 HP" conditional, the other has that and a second conditional (I think it's when you have incoming fatal). I know this because I had both of them at the same time in one run.
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Apr 2, 2024 08:50
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`{c:[16Z0c,1745c,14Z4c,31601,18Z2,326,1541,1614,1712,2060,2164,2241,4,14Z4c,1740c,1612c,1653c,1352,1753,1412,1512,1643,2052,2150,22Z5,4,1612c,1730c,1765c,14Z4c,1750c,1442,1563,1462,1844,1612,2052,21Z3,2231,4],d:{l:{m:[Alpha,Ghost,Basilisk]},m:[Big Hitter^6],n:13,p:{e:[Peaked Cap],h:[n2.147,n2.85f~Whey~Juice,g2.8d6,o2.4d8~Whiskey,y2.493~Ink Bottle~Tooth Necklace,r1.295]},sl:1},p:[10],s:2031323204,v:3018r}` Weird ability interaction: using the Green ability on the 1 HP character here restores 8 HP, not the expected 4. Is it picking up the Cruel modifier from the Tooth Necklace somehow? Edit: Also, the crescent shield isn't triggering the juice's Cleanse on the target it shields, but rather on the user. Probably something weird with Repel. Einander fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Apr 18, 2024 |
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Apr 18, 2024 18:38
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 01:51 |
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Tann posted:Thanks for posting the paste and clear description. These are both intended though maybe not intuitive. Oh, right, right. The juice got filed under "oh, I know this one" and I didn't look at it again. My bad. Thanks for the clarification on the other one, though, I didn't realize it'd work like that!
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Apr 18, 2024 21:09
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