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i am willing to bet the folks complaining about CGI vs practical muzzle flashes can only tell the difference in egregious circumstances, and the majority of CGI muzzle flashes don't even register to you or in fact may even look more passable even if it's exaggerated bc movies aren't real life and people have certain expectations of how movie guns look that differ from reality, same as how how guns needs to make large BCHAOOWWW BANG BANG BLOOW noises to be considered 'real' guns in movies even tho we all knows guns IRL just make lil' pop-pop noises at best real gunshots look and sounder underwhelming, at this point we're full-on in cartoon levels of exaggeration for these things in film and it's expected - hell, not only expected, audiences are upset if you don't push it and guns are portrayed realistically instead of indulging in the power fantasy. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 23:10
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punishedkissinger posted:real guns are noticeably better and aren't dangerous when you have trained, preferably union staff handling them. Baldwin and Co. cheaped out and got bargain basement randos to handle the SFX apparently and now someone is dead because of it. Baldwin didn't have anything to do with that, it's all the producers who choose the crew. If you wanna dive into some deep paranoia gossip, there's rumblings on the down-low that this could've been some backhanded effort to get back at him for his recent union support (he just put out a video supporting IATSE while on this very same job), but I'm not buying it. That's too organized for these gently caress-ups to have put together.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:18
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WHAT OH poo poo. Like a real one or vanity title? Bc if he was involved in planning and organizing then yeah that's on him.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:20
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Ahhh yeah - I'm reading into it now too- that could be he just gave some money and they gave him the title but he's not touched any serious producer work. So he could be a 'producer' as in just some guy who gave them money and connections and hopped on board as talent, or he could've gotten down in the nitty-gritty and been involved in the actual organizing of the shoot. The latter is the real damning thing, how much did he know vs not, etc. How involved was he in the bad decision-making that caused this? That's my question. He's still got some responsibility as someone who is funding and making this thing go tho, for sure.
StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 23:25
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won't someone think of the poor AD?Big Beef City posted:Let me ask you this; I'm not that poster but I agree guns shouldn't be on sets, there's really no reason for it. the 'authenticity' of the gunshot does not matter for your entertainment. It's movies and tv, it is not worth a single person's life, and frankly most people harping that it would be boring otherwise are also not the people who have to be on sets with these chucklefucks who accidentally shoot people. It's sure easy to risk other people's lives for your flashy moving pictures. stunts are an art form and as long as they're done safely they're fine, but a lot of people don't and folks get hurt often so it can be a problem. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 15:22
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if we just put guns on the front of all the cameras, this wouldn't have happened
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Oct 25, 2021 17:23
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at this point i would not be surprised if we found out alec baldwin himself was posting in this thread, just given some of the weird-rear end takesFacebook Aunt posted:How do productions hiring "infamously negligent safety guy" keep getting insurance? because he's infamous to the people who have to work under him, not the people who sell the insurance. To the insurers, a production like this is just another customer that needs to prove they can protest their investment, which just takes a decent production company to do. Making something look good on paper to impress a paper pusher and get the greenlight to keep producing is a big part of what a production company/producer does. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 23:51
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all gunshots moving forward will now be bkoom bkoom sounds made by the actors, i don't make the rules i just have to live by them, sorry guys
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Oct 26, 2021 23:59
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All of the articles out about this young armorer are pretty much my nightmare of what I always worried would happen if I hosed up big in a production when I was in my 20s. Granted, I'd never go plinking as an armorer so I wouldn't have ended up in this situation where someone died, if I messed up it's just dumb stuff where we'd lose footage or whatever, but some young idiot being thrown into the mix with more responsibility than they should have and then seeing if they sink or swim is so consistently a part of the industry it's kinda scary.
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Oct 27, 2021 13:52
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Anyway she gave her drunk boyfriend keys to her motorcycle at a party a year or so ago and he accidentally killed someone racing them so THIS AINT NEW I know, TMZ, total trash, but here's the article for info: https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/27/rust-armorer-hannah-reed-50k-settlement-friend-death-motorcycle-crash/
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Oct 27, 2021 13:54
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uXs posted:The 'ban all guns from film sets' is a pretty dumb overreaction. There have been thousands of movies made since Brandon Lee with no problem, and it took a combination of a crew doing target practice with guns from the set, an inexperienced armorer who leaves guns and ammunition lying around all over the place, and an assistant director who picks up a random weapon from a table and yells 'cold gun' without actually checking, to have this (very serious) accident. the reason there's so many precautions is precisely because so many people like this are let near a film set with regularity lol you're never going to be able to stop the procession of mediocrity that is people getting jobs from influence and nepotism in film-making so banning real guns from sets is a pretty sure way to make sure this doesn't happen again. we can hem and haw about how if things are done correctly per union rules with a properly trained armorer this wouldn't have happened, but it's clear that setting up a system of rules to prevent it just doesn't work, especially during a time when the union itself is refraining from working in order to fight for worker's right so obviously union scabs are going to appear and put people in danger. All it takes is one death, it doesn't matter that there 'hasn't been an accident like this since Brandon Lee', the answer is there should be none. the reason this is so high profile is both the current union situation, but also because it's the perfect symbol for current working conditions in the industry for crew. It's a lot of crew warning people about things, who then ignore their expertise to save money, and poo poo going wrong and having to scramble to catch it, and it was only a matter of time until the poo poo that went wrong led to a death (in fact it has already, just not always gun shootings!). This is a problem a long time coming. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 09:18
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The director who killed the PA on the set of Midnight Rider in 2014 by having them shoot on actual active train tracks, is not in jail and still allowed to direct films as long as he isn't in charge of safety, so I dunno what to tell you, that guy killed someone and still makin' movies lol Sarah Jones was her name, and he's Randall Miller, if you're curious StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 09:27
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:This ends with Alec Baldwin and Hannah Gutierrez-Reed being interviewed on the Today Show where they cry and hug each other. Neither face charges. Instead at least one of them will release a book about how this experience has shaped their lives that will be a massive success, make them a ton of money, and may itself be made into a film one day it's just dumb enough to happen
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Oct 28, 2021 15:01
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LanceHunter posted:There could also be more regulation enforcement, where groups like Cal/OSHA or NM OSHA are making regular visits to sets to check up on things. Of course, the problem with this is that productions will just move to whatever place gives them the least "hassle". Yeah see everyone talking about how it's just the regs needing to be more enforced - by who? And how? Again, the Midnight Rider director is STILL MAKING FILMS. Regulations don't do poo poo if no one is enforcing them. But sure keep making convoluted laws that everyone will ignore, that will certainly help the people on film sets! And counting on the complex rules being enforced every time, it's so much simpler than not allowing real guns on sets, right???? loving no. Eliminating actual guns on sets would make this a non-issue. And hell, then it's still the same problem, there will only be limited abilities to enforce that anyway, and I'm sure states like GA would jump on the chance to be 'the state that allows you to use real guns on sets' and poo poo. But folks saying it's just about getting the regulations in order and making sure only unions are employed on sets are fools. There's entire industries devoted to getting around unions, poo poo part of why NYC is a production hub is bc it's known as the main non-union hub for production. Look here's an article from Scorcese's daughter, a set propmaster, about how hosed up film sets are nowadays while everyone in this thread is like 'well it seems like such an organized and buttoned up industry that this rarely happens in, and just needs a little more oversight' lollllll https://www.businessinsider.com/prop-master-martin-cathy-scorsese-rust-shooting-2021-11 StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 12:28
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That said, Cali is the 5th largest economy in the world, it could easily set an example and wield its soft power by not allowing guns on sets and that would have a vastly bigger effect on the industry at large than any of the well-meaning but naive suggestions for better systematic enforcement of gun safety regulations. The only people who should have a vested interest in keeping real guns on sets are the armorers and their union, bc that's their livelihood. Everybody else, why do you care if it's real or not? StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 12:38
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Absolutely, that's my point - the people saying this is just something that happens once in a blue moon are wrong. This sort of poo poo happens all the time. It's not the exception, it's endemic to the industry - it's how it works, it IS the industry, taking these risks to see if they pay off. So advocating for no deadly firearms on set is just a single step in protecting folks, but not the real issue and definitely won't fix everything. And saying asking for no deadly weapons on sets is an over-reaction because it's clearly been so organized and coordinated up until now is such a misunderstanding of how poo poo on sets actually goes, it makes me see red. Yeah, well when you've got pictures in your wallet of folks who've died on productions, you can talk about what's an over-reaction. I'm sick of my friends dying. Dying for your loving tv shows and movies. I am eagerly watching how the IATSE vote goes. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 14:37
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lol they're really going with the 'agent provocateurs snuck in a live round into the dummy round box during this time of turmoil in the industry in order to bolster POLITICS' conspiracy angle lollllllllllll omg wow "that's entertaaaaaainmeeeent" *top hat, jazz hands* StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 17:14
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it seems like a lot but keep in mind it's gig economy work where you pay your own taxes (quite a lot) and also a lot of your own expenses. $8k for 21 days is....not a great rate once you set aside all that. Not for someone who has the level of responsibility an armorer is expected to have. These producers tried to save money on that line item in the budget and got what they paid for. i'm listening to this podcast now about how they caught someone who used the gig economy system of film and tv to lure people overseas over with potential movie/tv deals and then just soak money from them, but not just one or two, a whole bunch of people being scammed pretty much constantly, enough to net over a million dollars easily: https://www.campsidemedia.com/shows/chameleon only sorta loosely related to the thread's subject but I thought I'd share StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Nov 8, 2021 |
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Nov 8, 2021 15:20
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cops, infamously conservative with guns lol
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Nov 9, 2021 16:02
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Dynastocles posted:43 people have died on movie sets in the last thirty years. 2 of those died in gun-related accidents. One was Halyna Hutchins. But yes, let's ban guns and force everyone to use Nerf super soakers instead. this is such a dumb take considering that accident also came with a wave of crew members calling for more safety on sets and this accident was a prime example of how movie sets constantly break the rules just to get the shot it's almost like....the people who work in these conditions....are the ones more equipped to comment on if they're safe or not, over some guy who read wikipedia/saw a 2020 special
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Nov 9, 2021 16:51
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'look, helicopters don't kill people, people kill people. seems like only 2 people I know of have died, so who cares? You pussies wanna use NERF guns!'
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Nov 9, 2021 16:54
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all movies are now made by cops only. cops as actors. cops man the camera. thanks, obama
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Nov 9, 2021 17:11
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Dynastocles posted:And yes, literally only 2 people have died from gun-related accidents on movie sets in 30 years. The second of those two died last month. That's an amazing safety record, safer than fuckin airplanes, and means that when you follow the rules, things are fine. this doesn't work in your favor when the number should be zero. there's no amount of acceptable losses on movie sets from guns. this is essentially what you're arguing - the risk is so low, it's acceptable losses. gently caress no. welcome to the thread, where people have been long pointing out that it's not just about the tool being used, but a culture of risk-taking that exists on movie sets that won't ever fully disappear. sometimes it's a gun, sometimes it's a helicopter, the reasons why are pretty much the same, management taking risks to save money. for guns, the easiest and clearest way to fully eliminate this particular risk is just to have no real guns. a question that still has yet to be answered by the crowd so insistent in real guns on sets: why does it matter to you so much to have real guns on set? or do you just want to insist that people are over-reacting to your perceived risk assessment? in which case here's some confetti, maybe we are over-reacting, but I'd rather keep people safe than dead. In the guns on sets debate, I'll take the 'over-reacting to save lives' side over the 'eh it's only a handful of deaths!' side, thanks. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 9, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 21:02
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Him saying he feels no guilt has done it for me, in terms of putting him firmly in 'gently caress you, guy' territory forever. That's either a bald-faced PR lie, or he's a loving sociopath, but either way goddamn.
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Dec 4, 2021 17:07
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I think it tends to work the opposite way! Showing remorse can get you off more often than insisting you feel nothing, because whether you feel responsible for the death or not has no bearing on whether it's considered a wrongful death, but can affect how much they hit you for in the judgement.
StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 17:12
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Also in a situation of a wrongful death lawsuit, all he stands to lose is money, no jail time, so I feel like this lends credence to the 'cheap producer' narrative because wow, that's a dramatic stance to take that you don't feel guilt just to get ahead of that. Again it's just a PR move but ugh StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 17:15
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But the optics would look better to feel guilty about it? That's what I'm saying - I've heard showing remorse can work in your favor in terms of the harshness of the sentencing in wrongful death cases. It doesn't affect whether it's wrongful death or not, but can get you off lighter. I don't think it's like how you should never apologize for a car accident, or how a doctor is advised not to apologize in malpractice settings. I could be wrong tho, IANAL.
StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 18:30
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Welcome to entertainment, where the common practice is to create a shell company during production that you abandon afterwards, to dump liability on and move on. It's not uncommon that they welch on debts near the end of production as well and leave it as 'good luck coming after us' because welp
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Apr 21, 2023 08:29
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Cacator posted:We'll always have I've watched too much 30 Rock because I inevitably thought of the episode where Jack/Alec Baldwin is doing a made-for-TV movie, so they used Billy Baldwin as his made-for-tv version lol https://youtu.be/qoI4LacOER0 StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 20:04
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FoolyCharged posted:It's really upsetting to me that this aspect of the accident got so little attention legally. The only one of those chuckleheads they went after was Baldwin, and even then, it was for being the trigger man. Absolutely nothing on the blatant negligence Yeah seeing that it's coming down legally to fighting over the validity of if he really pulled the trigger hard enough for a bullet to exit the gun is rough. They all saw him pull the trigger! The gun doesn't need more special investigation to prove it was him that made the shot. Jfc. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 21:10
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Malah posted:That gun will never stop killing now that it has a taste for blood. Finally, 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' is unquestionably refuted
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Mar 6, 2024 20:07
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Deep Glove Bruno posted:if you really are having trouble finding written reporting, try adding movie industry publications to your search - variety, hollywood reporter etc. quote:The prosecution has argued that the evidence shows Gutierrez Reed inadvertently brought them to set, mingled among dummy rounds. In a police interview, Gutierrez Reed said she brought some dummies that were loose in a bag in her car and were left over from her previous job as armorer on “The Old Way,” a Nicolas Cage film. If this woman had killed Nic Cage, I would have been so furious. Her name would be loving Mudd and there would be no quarter. but lol at them being lumped together in a big ziploc from a previous production that god knows how many other people had access too lollllllll Still it does make it more apparent that this is a combo of her negligence + Alec baldwin having terrible trigger discipline with the 'prop gun', she's managed to get by with this negligence on several other productions because no one else has been as sloppy slinging the guns around. I wonder if this would ever even have come to light if he wasn't so casual about where he pointed the drat thing. If it was just a shot into a wall, it would make the news but no one would have been getting pulled into manslaughter trials. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 17:08
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:I mean she can never legally own a gun again or work in her Nepo baby career. The likelihood she'll fall back into the industry is high bc there's really not very much oversight tbh. Randall Miller was supposed to be on a 10 year probation from directing after the Midnight Rider incident in 2015, instead he went right back to it and released a film in 2020. Miller claims he thought he was allowed to still direct as long as he's not in charge of safety lol. He's now been told in no uncertain terms he's not allowed to direct again until his probation ends, but in two years the probation is over and he'll be right back to it. AND He's been petitioning to end his probation early - he's clearly still building relationships and planning to work after this is all over. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 17:03
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FoolyCharged posted:Shoot, outside the career too. I don't think many HR departments will be jumping at the bit to hire someone that has "so bad at their last job they got someone killed" permanently attached to them by criminal charges. lol at the idea of any small prodco having an HR department it's usually more like, one guy and an assistant, and then everyone else is a freelance crew for the gig - so dude is HR as well and well he generally doesn't see any problems with how things are run, even when blatantly illegal poo poo is being done she might not work as an armorer again but i'm willing to bet people will be hiring her in other capacities on sets, hoping to get access to further talent/connections her dad has. hiring kids of people you want to connect with in order to get an in, is as old as show business. they just have to shove her somewhere she's not responsible for anyone's safety. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 20:24
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