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fool of sound posted:Yeah I'm increasingly convinced that this is the actual big problem facing D&D. Quite a few posters seem to view probations as an official marker of losing a debate; the larger the punishment, the worse the loss. As such, people try to play the refs, and lure the people they're debating into posting something punishable, then yelling bloody murder about it at the mods (frequently when the infraction is minor at worst). Alternatively, if they can't get that to work, they gather up their posting posse in a discord or whatever and pile into a thread in the hopes that the mods will refrain from punishing their shitposting and cheerleading because they don't want to toss out a dozen probations at once. Man. You’re the one person in the moderating team I respect, so when I say that you have it backwards, I don’t mean it in a dismissive way. You’re acting like this is a community problem, but people wouldn’t act like this if they weren’t rewarded for it. They pull poo poo like this simply because it works. This is a moderation-created problem, and poor moderation proliferates the issue. Respectfully, if you really believe the statement “being wrong isn't a reason for being punished in D&D”, you’re completely out of touch with the way your colleagues operate. Being “wrong” (in the eyes of your team) equates to a thumb on scales when it comes to enforcement of the rules, and habitual outliers will eventually either be shown the door, or exhaust themselves trying to apply a more stringent set of rules. If you want the above behavior to step, start calling balls and strikes fairly. Full stop.
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Oct 24, 2021 04:12
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SA politics discussion is now just an extension of Twitter. Barely anyone considers "knowing what you're talking about" or "having evidence for your claims" to be important anymore. They just let the social media algorithms feed them tweets that make them feel either good or angry, and then the ones that make them feel the most emotions get cross-posted to SA so they can share those emotions. They don't care whether or not the tweets are true, from reliable sources, or even accurate descriptions of the thing the tweet links to. They just skim those 140 characters, let the rage well up inside them, and copy-paste the link to SA without even the slightest attempt to verify that it's actually true. Nobody needs sources or evidence anymore, and there's been more and more cases of people posting well-sourced arguments linking to polling and contemporary coverage, only to be responded to by snarky insulting one-liners without even the slightest attempt to find evidence refuting those sources. And that's not even the worst of it. There's been increasing numbers of literal conspiracy theorists who openly oppose the very concept of evidence, decrying it as nothing more than a liberal scheme to make us think jet fuel can melt steel beams. A good chunk of political discussion across the political spectrum is increasingly post-fact, and that's seeped into SA as well since - again - it's increasingly just an extension of social media. People come here when Twitter loads them up with too many feels, or when they get so pissed off that they can't fit their rage into 140 characters anymore. But that's enough about the whys and the hows. The important part is that the mods are not capable of forcing people to go back to posting evidence or checking their sources or doing any kind of due diligence at all. Dumping contextless tweets or posting nihilistic fanfiction is just too popular. The posters have changed and they're not going to change back, 2016 inflicted severe politics brain on too many people, so there's no choice but for D&D to change. Well, that's completely separate from the people who not only think that most of the USNews posters are literally actual Nazis, but believe it enough to say that to Jeffrey with a straight face. Those people are just community poison and it's no wonder why most of them have been forumbanned already. CommieGIR posted:At the end of this whole thing, lemme be clear: The community owns D&D. Not the mods. There is no singular D&D community. Or at the very least, there isn't any kind of community consensus. There's several separate US politics communities, all of which loathe each other and don't agree on anything, and then there's the posters who don't give a poo poo about US politics or anything outside their own regional threads and are just baffled by all the hate and bile flying around. There's a lot of will to see D&D changed, but there is no way there's ever going to be a clear community consensus on how D&D should be changed. Someone is going to have to decide which communities will be listened to, and which ones will be told to deal with it or leave. You're right that a mod shouldn't be making that call. It should be higher than that, someone who's going to be around for a while and overall responsible for things. Ideally, it would be the owner of the site. Like Jeffrey or hate him, he gets to make these kinds of calls and absolutely no one can overrule him or oust him. I think imposing all these hefty rules on the thread is a bit much, though. It's not like Ath's thread was super successful for its intended purpose or anything else. Just throw the gates open and let everyone show off exactly how much of an rear end in a top hat they are.
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Oct 24, 2021 06:01
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quote:Official D&D Moderation Feedback Thread! What the hell is this. I mean for the love of god, leaving aside how it takes 12 grown-rear end adults 9 months to make a thread on an internet forum... I mean, I like to talk to people online, I like to shitpost, but I don't know what the hell this is! What do you even call this ?! I mean this is asinine. Do you realize you moderate an internet forum and this isnt like, a business you have to be present at to open and shut down on a schedule? Except I guess you think that's something that's cool and fun to be on schedule to do? It's dumb as hell. How do you look another human being in the eye like "Yeah, I moderate a forum online. Sorry but I have to go shut it down tonight in case it gets a little too rowdy. You know, an internet forum. It's like a twitter, kind of. Anyways actually it's okay to post in it now - yeah I'm kind of the one that moderates it. That means I get to ban people. Anyways we're having a special day when people who are threadbanned - that is, people who are banned from my internet thread - they can post in the thread I have to shut down oh you're busy? Haha yeah I'm pretty busy too..." Just...jesus christ. What a loving shitshow. Oh, by the way, when you break down the factors that lead to an A in college writing, the one factor that corellates (idk if that's spelled right) to a high score is word count. No matter who's doing the scoring, more words = people think it's smarter. So that's prob happening here. Anyways, lick my bridge, I can teach you how to be just like me, goodnight.
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Oct 24, 2021 10:48
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Moderation has become a bit more even handed over the last few months, most notably from Handsome Ralph, so good on you all. That said, I think it’s impossible to A) participate as a poster AND moderate impartially B) truly moderate fairly and even handedly, especially w emotional & contentious subjects. More moderation would in theory be a good thing, but in practice it wouldn’t be applied evenly. So I say lighten up quite a bit, and don't probe for anything that would merit less than three days. Also- no thread/forum bans E: also the topics that are allowed to be discussed in the USnews thread seem to be arbitrarily chosen. Alec Baldwin shooting someone is ‘news’ but I don’t wanna read a couple pages about it. Well other posters do, so whatever. But politics related discussions that are interesting to me get shut down and told to move to some dead thread or even worse, told to start a new thread. Just let people talk about whatever current events they wanna discuss, there isn’t an impartial way to decide whatever topics belong in the thread and which ones don’t lil poopendorfer fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 11:36
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In all honesty, it's way easier to shitpost than to effortpost or try to be knowledgable and that applies to D&D as much as anywhere else. The moderation seems OK, though i think c-spam style shitposting could do to be curtailed in d&d as it never really does much to help discussion, though people trying to repeatedly outflank one another to the left isn't strictly limited to c-spam. I will say when you've kinda warped your ideation to the point where the Korean war becomes Kim Il Sung fighting a defensive war by rolling tanks down to Pusan you've lost touch, and i think the only way to really nip that in the bud is to start probing people for making posts that are that dishonest.
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Oct 24, 2021 12:38
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Moderation here is a joke. The mods will allow pages and pages of utter unresearched drivel, "bad faith posting" and outright insults as long as the vitriol is directed at the right people. Recently, during a conversation where I was an active participant and "meeting effort with effort" I slipped up and included one joke among a series of serious posts, and was rewarded with a sixer for my efforts. A blue star waded in and demanded that people take the discussion to the "Voting" thread, and the proceeded to ignore the next few pages where the same discussion waged on (as I guess the moment of crisis had passed after a few bad posters had been probated). However, the much vaunted "Voting" thread has been closed for some weeks - notably, it was closed after the moderators allowed a poster to derail from the topic of the thread by accusing the other participants of being racist or bigoted for disagreeing with them. This is the kind of moderation I've come to expect in this forum. Any deviation from the party line invokes extra scrutiny from the moderator staff, who are chomping at the bit to hand out sixers for the most minor infractions while egging on posters they agree with. Any discussion that becomes unruly or unmanageable is shunted off to a different thread that the moderators will open and close at their whim, and selectively ignore unless enough people get mad about it (see the sex pest thread).
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Oct 24, 2021 13:00
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Making up rules like "do not post Breitbart correspondents" seems like bad moderation, to me. I read the USnews OP and didn't see any rules against it! The closest one reads:quote:Take time to read and vet your sources, and when you post them, make sure that you accurately describe who the source is, why they are trustworthy, and importantly, what it is they are saying. Don't post nonsense from twitter nobodies in this thread. But the tweet in question comes from a White House correspondent, albeit one from a lovely right wing tabloid. But! It's just a quote from Psaki. Looking at the official transcript of that day's press conference, it's not a direct quote, but it's an accurate paraphrase. No editorializing, no q anon poo poo, no black crime vertical racism. Here's the official transcript, as near as I can tell: quote:Q Thank you, Jen. Given that you have two separate meetings with moderates and progressives today, is this White House confident that it will reach a deal on reconciliation by Democratic leadership’s self-imposed October 31st deadline? versus what the guy wrote in his tweet quote:“That’s not our deadline” says Jen Psaki when asked about Oct 31 deadline for Biden’s agenda So what's the problem? If the post violated a different rule, maybe indicate that in the rap sheet? I get it's just a sixer so on the one hand who cares, but it still seems bad to just make up a rule. Or, if you don't want people posting Breitbart journalists, irrespective of what they actually say in their tweets, make that an explicit rule! edit: I am also of the opinion that the one post per user rule is stupid and inhibits discussion and seems to run counter to the idea of giving feedback. If a mod replies to this post and I have further questions or wish to talk about whatever they said, I can't ask lest I get probed. bad thread rule. It was stupid when Athanatos did it too, and I'm not just saying that because I caught a probe for breaking it lol (RIP clean rap sheet) lobster shirt fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 13:10
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fool of sound posted:Yeah I'm increasingly convinced that this is the actual big problem facing D&D. Quite a few posters seem to view probations as an official marker of losing a debate; the larger the punishment, the worse the loss. As such, people try to play the refs, and lure the people they're debating into posting something punishable, then yelling bloody murder about it at the mods (frequently when the infraction is minor at worst). Alternatively, if they can't get that to work, they gather up their posting posse in a discord or whatever and pile into a thread in the hopes that the mods will refrain from punishing their shitposting and cheerleading because they don't want to toss out a dozen probations at once. This isn't specifically a "cspam invaders" issue either, it's an issue with people who have decided that they're only interested in discussions if they can win them, and mod intervention is the most common win condition when there isn't an overwhelming consensus of thread regulars to run them out on a rail. CG asked me to expand on my criticism so I'm gonna take that as permission to make a second post and if I get probed "oh well". This is right on the money. It's not the only problem, but it's a big one and I'm glad to hear a senior mod express it publicly. The other half of the equation would be the biased enforcement allowing one "team" to consistently step over the line while the other is probed for imagined infractions. And I'm not even sure it's worth discussing at this point because if you don't see the bias in action then you never will.
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Oct 24, 2021 13:12
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Cpt_Obvious posted:CG asked me to expand on my criticism so I'm gonna take that as permission to make a second post and if I get probed "oh well". as a show of solidarity with cpt_obvious i'm going to eat the probe for a forum banned poster posting out of turn. here's my post from qcs describing the grossly iniquitous moderation that constantly goes on in dnd. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:This at least conflicts with some others who say there are strictly too many probations. Whenever people tell me of biased moderation, I ask for examples. Specifically, I'd like to see posts that were probated that you think would have gone untouched if they came from "the other side". I almost never get sent them, and when I do, it's usually someone being an rear end in a top hat, expressing the same thing as a few other people on the same page who managed to do it without being an rear end in a top hat. Please send me good ones, where someone is actually just punished for an opinion, where I can look at it and see that. I never get those. ok i dug up a few examples for you to look at. the first is a post that wasn't probated, but I PMd a mod about it and they said it was seen and thoroughly discussed. i bring this up just to establish a baseline of what's known to be acceptable dialogue by the dnd mods. Megillah Gorilla posted:EDIT: Beaten like a Uyghur in a Chinese re-education camp. so, let's have a look at what isn't acceptable. here's a week for making a (good) joke. quote:
threadban quote:
threadban quote:
this was only a sixer, but the exchange is quite illustrative of the double standard they've got going in there quote:
two weeks quote:
forum ban quote:
this is an *extremely* truncated list, it doesn't even start on the poo poo that goes on outside of uspol, but any more would be even more tedious for me to post and you to read. but i assure you that this is very much the norm for that forum and the mods' personal ideological biases are by far the governing moderation principle in dnd and have been for quite a while. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 24, 2021 13:36
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I think the thing that's most emblematic of the problem of D&D is the Media Analysis thread. I'm not going to argue into the semantics of the thread or the validity of the credentials of the self-professed experts within because it's irrelevant to the tone/intent argument I'll get at, but if D&D is supposed to be for Debate and Discussion...that thread would be far better suited to a sub/forum more appropriate to its tone - perhaps Ask/Tell, or PYF, or even PMF where the intent isn't to discuss or debate the merits of one's given preferences but to positively reinforce or actively proliferate the preference of the thread's OP/IK/"Featured Contributor." In the case of this thread, it seems to be the media framework/analytical model that one particular poster that has, I presume through some private moderator channel, provided sufficient proof of their credentials in media criticism (they purport to be a professor of media analysis in the thread itself several times, though I don't expect them to simply willingly doxx themselves to acquiesce to my personal whims - if the mods say he's got the paperwork, that's good enough for me) to contribute to the OP and initial reserved posts, and be an ongoing arbiter of what is and isn't a valid lens of media criticism. In this sense, the thread functions less like a place to debate and discuss, and more of a place for the featured poster to put on a "clinic" of sorts of how to properly analyze media through the framework that the verified expert subscribes to. This kind of thing seems to be more at home in a thread like "[Ask] Me how to become a more critical, media literate news consumer!" than a thread stickied among the rules and reference threads and peddled around in unrelated threads by the featured poster as "must reads" for good-faith participation in whatever thread they're baying about it in. To attempt to debate the merits of the featured poster's model is to invite anything from a mod challenge, to a threadban, to a 30 day posting vacation depending on the way and channel through which the challenge to that model is delivered. This "discussion" environment is a distillation of what I see to be the 'meta' of D&D right now: self-appointed or moderator-approved "Knowers of Things" are deferred to for largely unassailable "guidance" - whether through reactionary 6ers with a lepers colony note to not post about mod action/inaction and to take it to PM, a tedious/condescending pattern of posting by the Knower that's simply more effort than it's worth to try and refute on the grounds that are set by the D&D rules/non-rules, or an outright infantalization/reluctance to engage in the topic ("I will address Chomsky at some point, since it seems I have to," and (paraphrasing) "those criticisms are popular, therefore they're wrong" I think was when things really went off the rails and into Lecture Hall territory rather than Discussion territory) essentially causing the dissenting voices to either throw their hands up in frustration and say 'to hell with it' or to finally make that one big stretching reach that swats the handle of the pot of boiling water and earns themselves a mark of exile from the thread. It's also a fantastic example of the actual divide between D&D and C-SPAM - it's often said that we're making a massive production out of grudges with people who we share "90% common opinion" with and no thread more demonstrably refutes this than the Media Analysis thread. In my latest round of abyss-gazing into that thread, there was a flareup of activity in which the journalistic integrity of a media outlet was called into question as its owner is a person of significant financial means: again, without getting into the granularity of the arguments themselves, the two sides boiled down to "you just have to trust that journalists care more about journalistic ethics than they do about capitalism's ability to influence them through finance" vs "you cannot trust capitalist-owned media to put the concerns of the widget makers first, even if there's only the vaguest implication of possible blowback for unfavorable coverage of capital interests" - these ideas of media analysis are not a nearly-perfect-circle-venn-diagram - rather, these ideas couldn't possibly be further apart from each other - about the only overlap I can meaningfully define there would be an acknowledgment that it's neither easy nor cheap to print the news.
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Oct 24, 2021 14:19
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Yeah, I remember when I showed that the Media Criticism Thread OP had not read an article I posted at all and I was probed for pointing that out, kicking off a bunch of other probes for other people who found that funny. I also remember getting a 24 hour probe while other posters got a week or even a month. That doesn't seem like fair and balanced moderating to me. I used to post in D&D all the time before it became a toxic place where you'll be probed or banned for pointing out the Emperor has no clothes. I have no idea how to fix it, but the current mod team are 100% part of the problem and have to go.
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Oct 24, 2021 15:01
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fool of sound posted:Yeah I'm increasingly convinced that this is the actual big problem facing D&D. Quite a few posters seem to view probations as an official marker of losing a debate; the larger the punishment, the worse the loss. As such, people try to play the refs, and lure the people they're debating into posting something punishable, then yelling bloody murder about it at the mods (frequently when the infraction is minor at worst). Alternatively, if they can't get that to work, they gather up their posting posse in a discord or whatever and pile into a thread in the hopes that the mods will refrain from punishing their shitposting and cheerleading because they don't want to toss out a dozen probations at once. This isn't specifically a "cspam invaders" issue either, it's an issue with people who have decided that they're only interested in discussions if they can win them, and mod intervention is the most common win condition when there isn't an overwhelming consensus of thread regulars to run them out on a rail. MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, I remember when I showed that the Media Criticism Thread OP had not read an article I posted at all and I was probed for pointing that out, kicking off a bunch of other probes for other people who found that funny. I also remember getting a 24 hour probe while other posters got a week or even a month. That doesn't seem like fair and balanced moderating to me.
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Oct 24, 2021 15:30
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As some have suspected, this is a re-reg troll account. This month, I've been posting in bad faith, I've posted lies, I've misrepresented sources (that were directly linked in my posts), I've sniped at other posters directly, I've said vile poo poo. Never caught a probe until I stepped out of D&D and posted the same way. It turns out that all of this stuff is 100% allowed in D&D as long as you post it all with a positive spin for the Democrats. Yesterday, multiple people got probated for pointing out that I was trolling. The problem with D&D moderation is that the mods are gigantic morons (they might be the stupidest posters on this forum) who are super easy to manipulate into punishing posting enemies, which is what the regulars do here to win arguments. This little experiment has made me wonder who else is doing long-form trolling in this subforum, because it's so easy. I suspect how are u. Here's my advice for anyone who wants to post negative stories about Democrats in this subforum: Post it accompanied with a Trump-like insinuation that it's fake news or clickbait, works every time. Fancy Pelosi fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 15:37
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Fancy Pelosi posted:As some have suspected, this is a re-reg troll account. This month, I've been posting in bad faith, I've posted lies, I've misrepresented sources (that were directly linked in my posts), I've sniped at other posters directly, I've said vile poo poo. Never caught a probe until I stepped out of D&D and posted the same way. It turns out that all of this stuff is 100% allowed in D&D as long as you post it all with a positive spin for the Democrats. Yesterday, multiple people got probated for pointing out that I was trolling. The problem with D&D moderation is that the mods are gigantic morons (they might be the stupidest posters on this forum) who are super easy to manipulate into punishing posting enemies, which is what the regulars do here to win arguments. This little experiment has made me wonder who else is doing long-form trolling in this subforum, because it's so easy. I suspect how are u. lol nice loving masterstroke dude
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Oct 24, 2021 16:48
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Warts and all, D&D is still somehow one of the better 'always-on' current events aggregator. Like, hands down the best if you don't want to have to curate twitter or delve into reddit, god forbid. Maybe take a moment to celebrate what everyone has built. For feedback... I think Professor Beetus's approach in the Covid thread was great. Patient and inclusive. I think leaning in to those concepts is important... with much larger probations when people don't get the message. Beyond that I echo much of the above about posters responding to incentives and reinforcement. If things are going directions you dont want look at how you may be incentivizing or at least allowing it to happen' Also if y'all can ever figure out how to gamify forum trolling with something like among us yall will be billionaires (until the revolution comes, at least).
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Oct 24, 2021 16:51
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Fancy Pelosi posted:As some have suspected, this is a re-reg troll account. This month, I've been posting in bad faith, I've posted lies, I've misrepresented sources (that were directly linked in my posts), I've sniped at other posters directly, I've said vile poo poo. Never caught a probe until I stepped out of D&D and posted the same way. It turns out that all of this stuff is 100% allowed in D&D as long as you post it all with a positive spin for the Democrats. Yesterday, multiple people got probated for pointing out that I was trolling. The problem with D&D moderation is that the mods are gigantic morons (they might be the stupidest posters on this forum) who are super easy to manipulate into punishing posting enemies, which is what the regulars do here to win arguments. This little experiment has made me wonder who else is doing long-form trolling in this subforum, because it's so easy. I suspect how are u. going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 16:55
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Fancy Pelosi posted:As some have suspected, this is a re-reg troll account. This month, I've been posting in bad faith, I've posted lies, I've misrepresented sources (that were directly linked in my posts), I've sniped at other posters directly, I've said vile poo poo. Never caught a probe until I stepped out of D&D and posted the same way. It turns out that all of this stuff is 100% allowed in D&D as long as you post it all with a positive spin for the Democrats. Yesterday, multiple people got probated for pointing out that I was trolling. The problem with D&D moderation is that the mods are gigantic morons (they might be the stupidest posters on this forum) who are super easy to manipulate into punishing posting enemies, which is what the regulars do here to win arguments. This little experiment has made me wonder who else is doing long-form trolling in this subforum, because it's so easy. I suspect how are u. incredible. as pathetic as this puppetmaster poo poo is it's much, much more pathetic that it worked
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Oct 24, 2021 16:55
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fancy pelosi lookin’ to tie arf’s record lmao
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Oct 24, 2021 16:58
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multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 17:05
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multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 17:05
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multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol To expand upon this post: This is hopefully all the feedback that is needed.
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Oct 24, 2021 17:07
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Oct 24, 2021 17:13
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So... somebody came in, posted incredibly anodyne poo poo nobody cared about, with a reg date that maybe everybody pretty sure it was a troll, comes back to “reveal” that they were a troll and actually the anodyne poo poo they posted was vile personal attacks. Here’s what they actually posted, draw your own conclusions: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3965530&userid=228557&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 Anyway since I only have one post, let VitalSigns back in USNews.
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Oct 24, 2021 17:15
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Fancy Pelosi posted:As some have suspected, this is a re-reg troll account. This month, I've been posting in bad faith, I've posted lies, I've misrepresented sources (that were directly linked in my posts), I've sniped at other posters directly, I've said vile poo poo. Never caught a probe until I stepped out of D&D and posted the same way. It turns out that all of this stuff is 100% allowed in D&D as long as you post it all with a positive spin for the Democrats. Yesterday, multiple people got probated for pointing out that I was trolling. The problem with D&D moderation is that the mods are gigantic morons (they might be the stupidest posters on this forum) who are super easy to manipulate into punishing posting enemies, which is what the regulars do here to win arguments. This little experiment has made me wonder who else is doing long-form trolling in this subforum, because it's so easy. I suspect how are u. Congrats? You posted mediocre middle of the road stuff that wasn't offensive and when people refused to actually do the namesake of the forum like Debate and Discuss, they got punished. I wasn't aware trolling in the form of devil's advocate was punishable, but I guess that should be a rule? The rule for trolls is to disengage and report, which very few people did. The reports we did get about you being a troll, most of your posts look like normal discussion. If your goal was to say we need to punish that, even with a rule change we'd likely not do that. In fact, your experiment was so successful that we actually assumed you were a re-reg troll from the start. We asked for an alt-check on October the 2nd and while it did align your account with a fairly innocent poster, there's no rules against having an alt if you are not evading a permaban. So, I guess good job on trolling within the rules. Hey if you want to keep doing that, go for it. I'm sure Jeff appreciates the extra tenbux. Mellow Seas posted:Here’s what they actually posted, draw your own conclusions: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3965530&userid=228557&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 Yeah, basically this. Which of these posts is truly offensive? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 17:21
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CommieGIR posted:Congrats? You posted mediocre middle of the road stuff that wasn't offensive and when people refused to actually do the namesake of the forum like Debate and Discuss, they got punished. I wasn't aware trolling in the form of devil's advocate was punishable, but I guess that should be a rule? The rule for trolls is to disengage and report, which very few people did. The reports we did get about you being a troll, most of your posts look like normal discussion. If your goal was to say we need to punish that, even with a rule change we'd likely not do that. Please keep going, this is very revealing.
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Oct 24, 2021 17:33
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I've been reading D&D for almost 20 years. It's always been a contentious place. There is no 'fixing' something like D&D. You can balkanize it, sure. But the problems will just multiply like a hydra you cut the head off of. Admins need to soak in the marinade of USPol for 3 months to get a feel for it's culture. It's rough edges, and smooth brain posts. The smell of youthful edge and old derision mixing to form posting unlike anywhere else. What I'm saying is, of you love something, don't try to change it. Let it fly free. Of you don't love it the shoot it in the head already and get it over with. The current batch of mods is pretty good, forums / thread bans are bad methods of fixing things, and the real problem is all the bitching going on about how there is a problem. Less probation, less moving topics to other threads would also be a minor improvement. Thanks for all the work and please leave USPol alone. Edit: alts shouldn't be allowed. Post as yourself you cowards. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 17:35
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multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 17:44
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Fancy Pelosi is indicative of the problem gated communities or subsets develop over time. You literally have two forums with similar threads and the same thematology. The way to fix this is to merge C-SPAM and D&D. Enforce the community guidelines properly, and ban those that fail to adapt and keep acting like dicks to each other.
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Oct 24, 2021 17:51
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CommieGIR posted:Congrats? You posted mediocre middle of the road stuff that wasn't offensive and when people refused to actually do the namesake of the forum like Debate and Discuss, they got punished. I wasn't aware trolling in the form of devil's advocate was punishable, but I guess that should be a rule? The rule for trolls is to disengage and report, which very few people did. The reports we did get about you being a troll, most of your posts look like normal discussion. If your goal was to say we need to punish that, even with a rule change we'd likely not do that. So what you're saying is as long as you post mediocre stuff from the center of the political spectrum, it isn't a problem that you are purposefully and explicitly breaking the rules outlined in the D&D rules thread?
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Oct 24, 2021 17:58
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multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 18:05
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Bel Shazar posted:Warts and all, D&D is still somehow one of the better 'always-on' current events aggregator. Like, hands down the best if you don't want to have to curate twitter or delve into reddit, god forbid. Maybe take a moment to celebrate what everyone has built. As much as I'd like to agree, and I certainly appreciate the compliment, I am not sure the Covid thread this far has been a total success. I definitely had an idea that, perhaps with something as far reaching and serious as Covid, I could appeal to the better angels of anyone posting in there to remember that no one is on Covid's side, and that first and foremost we are all in this poo poo together. I mean, that's pretty true for most things I think, there's a lot of well-paid computer touchers in here, but I think generally speaking most of us should be on the right side of class struggle. Yet still there were people willing to take advantage of my light touch to post misleading bullshit and attack other posters. And continue to dredge up the absolute dumbest interforum drama. Some folks have let me know that they are continuing to stay away because of it, and it sucks because some of them are actual subject matter experts who would be a boon to the thread. But ultimately, you can't please everyone, and the Something Awful forums aren't an appropriate venue for checking credentials at the door. So no, I'm not going to ban or kick out any layperson who doesn't show up with their advanced medical degree in hand, and frankly if you have a cherished off site without the stink of the teeming masses, maybe that's a better place for you to post anyway. Moderation is never going to make all parties happy, but I do think there is something to the idea of giving moderators more positive moderation tools than negative. I offered av certs for posting quality OP material when I was prepping the new thread, and while literally no one took me up on the avs, I did get to hand out plat to a couple folks, and everyone seemed encouraged to respond and contribute regardless. There needs to be a lot more that goes into it beyond pushing the buttons that punish, but the flip side is that there are assholes that are going to take advantage and look no further than the "revelation" of Fancy Pelosi as a troll. Like, congrats on showing us that the most milquetoast middle of the road (non-rule breaking) posts aren't going to be probated. And frankly, that wouldn't have been an issue either if alt checks had turned up anything worth taking action on, but it turns out they weren't a noteworthy enough poster for admins to give a poo poo. Since I'm an IK I'm going to stick with the one post max for now, and I will wrap this up by saying that I think for the most part I don't actually think there's that much currently wrong with DND other than polarized dipshits on either side (of an incredibly narrow spectrum, 4-5 posters aside) that can't stand the thought of sharing a space with people they disagree with so vehemently, but that's the challenge of having a shared space, and I think anyone saying that "one side" or "the other" is the real problem is telling on themselves. e: Also I hope that didn't sound too ungracious, I genuinely do feel heartened by the positive feedback I've gotten from folks who have pm'd me or mentioned the Covid thread. I stopped IKing in DND a while back due to mental and physical health issues (before coming back specifically to Covid thread), and I still have a lot going on there, but I do appreciate positive feedback even if I don't necessarily feel it myself. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 18:06
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Fancy Pelosi a troll....say it ain't so....
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Oct 24, 2021 18:08
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Fancy Pelosi posted:As some have suspected, this is a re-reg troll account. This month, I've been posting in bad faith, I've posted lies, I've misrepresented sources (that were directly linked in my posts), I've sniped at other posters directly, I've said vile poo poo. Never caught a probe until I stepped out of D&D and posted the same way. It turns out that all of this stuff is 100% allowed in D&D as long as you post it all with a positive spin for the Democrats. Yesterday, multiple people got probated for pointing out that I was trolling. The problem with D&D moderation is that the mods are gigantic morons (they might be the stupidest posters on this forum) who are super easy to manipulate into punishing posting enemies, which is what the regulars do here to win arguments. This little experiment has made me wonder who else is doing long-form trolling in this subforum, because it's so easy. I suspect how are u. Fancy Pelosi posted:I am a re-reg because people tend to get harassed for posting political opinions that 90% of normal people have. But I'm not trolling, and even bringing up Sinema's possible replacement has made people reveal their accelerationist streak, case in point: multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 18:11
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I'm going to stick with what I said in the last thread. I'll like to add to unsticky the Media Literacy thread. It should also stopped being demanded to be read like some sort of homework Beyond that though multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 18:21
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This forum is over-moderated and under-moderated. Especially USNews/POL. People catch probes all the time but it's for zero time and the real problem posters who make the thread unreadable operate with impunity. In addition, IK's/mods are very active in political discussions with either ruins their jugement or *gives the appearance* of ruining their judgement, which either way ruins trust. Maybe forum-ban the mods from D&D? USPOL should be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less moderated or let it self-moderate. It will take a few days/weeks to settle out but it will be vastly better for it. The tight control on discussion is bad, and since nobody ever moves on to the containment threads you basically cut off discussion at the knees, reset it, nobody learns anything and the same discussion takes place again in a week. Also Dante80 posted:The way to fix this is to merge C-SPAM and D&D. Enforce the community guidelines properly, and ban those that fail to adapt and keep acting like dicks to each other. Absolutely this. There being two identical forums with users complaining about "the other ones" is a microcosm of American politics and social media. At least once a day someone runs into discussions on either forum to post about some caricature of the users there. Added Note: If you close this thread by Monday I'm calling you on that bullshit right now. These threads always end up running during the weekends and lots of the regulars only post on weekdays.
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Oct 24, 2021 18:26
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I believe Twitter is five years behind Facebook in being revealed as measurably harmful to human life and renaming themselves like a cigarette company to avoid the toxic associations of its product. Ban Twitter posts completely. Force people to link directly to articles, or quote them themselves. I guarantee you'll see an improvement immediately. I know this sounds like a joke post but I'm completely serious, tweets are a plague on us all.
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Oct 24, 2021 18:31
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CommieGIR posted:Congrats? You posted mediocre middle of the road stuff that wasn't offensive and when people refused to actually do the namesake of the forum like Debate and Discuss, they got punished. I wasn't aware trolling in the form of devil's advocate was punishable, but I guess that should be a rule? The rule for trolls is to disengage and report, which very few people did. The reports we did get about you being a troll, most of your posts look like normal discussion. If your goal was to say we need to punish that, even with a rule change we'd likely not do that. "You can be as lovely and vile as you want as long as it's politically middle of the road and if people point it out for the no effort bullshit it is they'll be punished" isn't following the letter nor the spirit of the rules you dumbass, lol. Fister Roboto posted:My moderation feedback is to ban this poster for posting rape apologia. Also all of this, please. But make it all the mods because they're all kind of various degrees of this at the end of the day. BEtween this breakdown and earlier poo poo like...well everything MainPainframe did and PPJ I don't think any moderator with ties to the current or past administration can do anything but make this situation worse, because that's all that's happened over the last few years. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 18:53
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The problem with D&D is the problem D&D has had for its entire life, which is also the problem the internet has in general, which is also the problem AMERICA has in general. Bad faith trolls are allowed to dictate what is discussed, how it's discussed, and what is never allowed to be mentioned at all. Easiest example is what happens any time discussion of policing has ever popped up in D&D. "Seems like this topic deserves its own thread" is followed almost instantly by pigfuckers trolling it to the sewer, at which point mods decide the topic itself is poison, close the thread, and punish anyone who tries to bring it up again until the cycle eventually repeats. Come the gently caress on. By demographics, most of the mods have experienced the failure of Zero Tolerance policy in schools, yet that's the standard they want to set here? It has been less than five years since news broke of fascists and state actors using this as a deliberate strategy to balkanize the US, but sure, keep falling for it over and over again. Dante80 posted:The way to fix this is to merge C-SPAM and D&D. Enforce the community guidelines properly, and ban those that fail to adapt and keep acting like dicks to each other. If you have a group of toxic posters, the solution is never to kick them to a free space to amplify and encourage each others' toxicity. Tibalt posted:I believe Twitter is five years behind Facebook in being revealed as measurably harmful to human life and renaming themselves like a cigarette company to avoid the toxic associations of its product.
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Oct 24, 2021 18:55
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Tibalt posted:I believe Twitter is five years behind Facebook in being revealed as measurably harmful to human life and renaming themselves like a cigarette company to avoid the toxic associations of its product. My moderation feedback is to ban this poster for posting rape apologia. Tibalt posted:Considering nobody could collaborate her story or were willing to stake their journalistic reputation on it, I don't think the Tara Reade accusations are credible. Then demod CommieGir for only giving said rape apologia a 6er, effectively putting it on the same moral level as posting an Onion article, and then acting indignant and making bullshit excuses when people correctly said it wasn't enough. CommieGIR posted:Either D&D is too heavy handed moderating, or not heavy enough. Make up your minds. CommieGIR posted:He got probated, correct? What would you have us do, better yet: Tell us in the Mod feedback thread? If your beef is that it wasn't long enough, then you need to explain what sort of probation that deserved? Same level as the genocide denial people throwing a fit in this thread? Okay then, we'll take that into consideration. So here's my mod feedback as requested. I hope that, regardless of ideological differences, everyone here can agree that posts like these and the piss-poor mod actions should not be tolerated.
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Oct 24, 2021 19:07
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multijoe posted:going to expend my (1) posting in this thread token to say: lol
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Oct 24, 2021 19:24
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