|
The excessive moderation has shrunk this forum down to just one or two mega threads. If you want stricter rules, you deserve them.
|
#
¿
Oct 23, 2021 03:05
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 15:39 |
|
|
fool of sound posted:Yeah I'm increasingly convinced that this is the actual big problem facing D&D. Quite a few posters seem to view probations as an official marker of losing a debate; the larger the punishment, the worse the loss. As such, people try to play the refs, and lure the people they're debating into posting something punishable, then yelling bloody murder about it at the mods (frequently when the infraction is minor at worst). Alternatively, if they can't get that to work, they gather up their posting posse in a discord or whatever and pile into a thread in the hopes that the mods will refrain from punishing their shitposting and cheerleading because they don't want to toss out a dozen probations at once. This isn't specifically a "cspam invaders" issue either, it's an issue with people who have decided that they're only interested in discussions if they can win them, and mod intervention is the most common win condition when there isn't an overwhelming consensus of thread regulars to run them out on a rail. CG asked me to expand on my criticism so I'm gonna take that as permission to make a second post and if I get probed "oh well". This is right on the money. It's not the only problem, but it's a big one and I'm glad to hear a senior mod express it publicly. The other half of the equation would be the biased enforcement allowing one "team" to consistently step over the line while the other is probed for imagined infractions. And I'm not even sure it's worth discussing at this point because if you don't see the bias in action then you never will.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2021 13:12
|
|
|
Stringent posted:as a show of solidarity with cpt_obvious i'm going to eat the probe for a forum banned poster posting out of turn. Same. I ask only that the probe reason not be boring. There's been some tremendous content created this weekend, pyf in my rapsheet mods.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2021 23:06
|
|
|
Kalit posted:Don't allow embedded tweets.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 25, 2021 16:21
|
|
|
Personally I think forum bans are great because they directly shrink the poster-base and are rarely warranted. Gone are the days where celestial scribe and yronic heroism were making GBS threads all over the floor and needed to be shown out, these days forum bans are reserved purely for ideological reasons and it's a great way to steer directly into the iceberg that this forum hit about 2 years ago. It's already taking on water, why not make that gash in the hull a little wider. Democratic party loyalists lose elections and posters and I am here for it.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 01:08
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:
 That's a pretty vague rule.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 01:44
|
|
Quick rules amendment: "do not quote other posters" is lifted, "do not respond at other posters" replaces it.
|
I want to clarify: I was not talking directly to GJB, I was directing that comment generally to the thread.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 01:48
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Ah yes, the "Mass Incarceration and forced integration is not Genocide" excuse. If you really want to defend that, go for it, but honestly I don't see a D&D or even a Political Forum where defending that is going to be acceptable or encouraged. Nobody is saying that mass detentions aren't happening. They're saying the coverage is slanted to exacerbate the domestic issues of their new cold war opponents. There's a very long history of deceptive western media coverage of communist-party controlled countries like Cuba and Vietnam and the USSR.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 14:09
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:"The Mass Detentions are happening, but its a media slant"
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 14:25
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide What the gently caress are you talking about? How is this relevant to anything I've said at all?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 14:33
|
|
|
CG this is not an appropriate way for a mod to act. There are pages of complaints levelled at the mod team itt and the qcs thread, and instead of responding to any of those you are instead loving the Chinese chicken, so to speak. I'm not sure what your goal is here from a moderation standpoint, but if you are attempting to justify the years long poo poo pile that is DnD moderation then you're doing a very poor job of it. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Oct 26, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 15:07
|
|
|
Any time a mod wants to address literally any grievances from the past few days would be great. Thus far we've had CG making GBS threads the floor for 2 days while gjb pops in to say that forum bans are bad and good and who knows, really? At this point it should be obvious to anyone that the moderation staff have run out of ideas because they keep backfiring and should either start in completely new directions or resign.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:Maybe this is asking a lot but could you maybe link an example of a discussion going well in CSPAM that you think would go poorly in D&D? If your answer is "gently caress off, go find one yourself" that's fine. Literally the entire forum. All the mega threads like doomsday econ, Trump thread, succ zone, even some of the smaller bits like the failing New York times or the anarchist thread. There's a reason why they're in Cspam and not DnD and that reason is the terrible mods.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:Oh word people like the mods in CSPAM? You can cherry pick my response all you want, it just detracts from whatever point you're trying to make. The D-Day economics thread is a great discussion place that organically generating new topics and discussions that would be impossible in DnD because the lovely moderation has chased off just about anyone who can read a stock ticker without their brain overloading. Most of the CSPAM mods are actually quite popular right now with the possible exception of crusty nutsack who seems to have taken a break for a while. For example, when thunderbeast stepped down people were very kind because he did a good job but now has more RL responsibilities.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 17:03
|
|
|
fool of sound posted:The problem is that USNews isn't an organic conversation. There are too many people pursuing too many lines of discussion at once, in a manner that doesn't encourage or require them to actually participate in a dialogue. It's a high school locker room, where there's a bunch of individual conversations happening until someone throws down, and then there's no room for nuance because everything is written for the benefit of the audience. Why does this really matter? Why does 2 or 3 different groups of people having 2 or 3 different discussions in the same thread a problem? If you don't want to be part of one discussion, just skip over it. If you miss something important, you can just scroll up. CSPAM manages multiple political discussions in the same thread all the time. It works out fine. It's this line of thinking that promotes biased enforcement because if there are two topics with only one allowed then some button pusher needs to decide which topic is allowed and which has "run its course". That's an absurd judgement call that nobody is qualified to make, so you end up with mods forcing discussions they want to have and cutting off the ones they don't.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 21:19
|
|
|
I am curious about just what percentage of DnD traffic is entirely USPol. 40%? 60%? All the mods are USPol posters, almost of the participants itt are USPol posters. Most of the other threads barely have more than a handful of posts per week. At what point does a single thread account for such a large proportion of the a subforum's readership that it becomes synonymous with the forum itself? Edited to omit quotes.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
fool of sound posted:
Ok, but do you see the contradiction here? You are asking people to post more while limiting what they can post about. If they want a 6 page derail about vaping just let them derail for 6 pages. People can post all sorts of interesting graphs about addiction or the horror of the tobacco industry or they can bond over quitting/trying to quit smoking or whatever. That's the natural flow of a conversation. Eventually some other topic will pop up that peopl want to talk about.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 22:30
|
|
|
fool of sound posted:No it's the conversation that 2-3 people want to have, while the other 100 regulars in USPol PM me 8 times and file collectively 30 reports about because they want to discuss breaking news in USNews, not vaping policy. Then you're probing the wrong people. GJB said he wanted a chill place to relax and talk about politics, you're never going to get that by bending to tyrannosaurus dorkus. But at this point that seems to be the only people left in this forum so whatever.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2021 22:40
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:Maybe don't slip in a "have you considered how many Jews were born during the supposed Holocaust" bit. Which everyone else you're referring to managed to avoid. Terrible Opinions posted:So you do not believe that Canadian and American native school systems were genocide? These comparisons unintentionally erase the worst of the atrocities committed against those groups of people.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 15:28
|
|
|
fool of sound posted:Not using the specific term "genocide" while acknowledging the abuses is not genocide denial. Yeah but that's not how your mods are enforcing "genocide denial" so is this an official change in policy going forwards?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 17:09
|
|
|
fool of sound posted:Hey since context is important, want to reveal who you were before you put on the mask?  Edit: to add content, I think a coherent policy regarding what's happening with the Uighurs is going to need to get hammered out and will require poster input.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:Seriously just imagine how happy you and the various other regulars will be when no one can disagree with you. Anyone who dissents about anything, instant forum ban. Zero reports filed. Imagine the bliss. Honestly this. So much of the problems in DnD comes from pretending to be a neutral debate stage instead of a liberal aligned political discussion board. If you want to just have a fun chat about politics and follow all the latest insider Washington gossip with a Democratic bend then just say that.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
fool of sound posted:I only care about the opinion of people who have firsthand experience with posting here, not secondhand opinions from some other thread or grudges from before any of the current mod team was around. Didn't you ask at the beginning of the thread for input from lurkers as well? Or was that GJB?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 18:35
|
|
|
Just wanted to say that the mods reaction to feedback itt has been pretty adversarial. The response to people giving their honest opinion about forum policy should not be "your opinion doesn't count because X". This is supposed to be a forum for debate and yet the people that run it can't stop attacking the messenger because they don't like the message. I don't know if any other feedback threads have this level of contention where one mod goes all in against his posting enemies and then tags out for another mod to do the same. It's very weird and inappropriate.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 19:49
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:We don't. Politics discourse as a whole has been too thoroughly Twitter-poisoned. And that's not just a matter of Twitter embeds being common, it's the general fact that people are browsing Twitter all day because that's where politics news and discussion comes from these days. The most politics-addicted among us are spending their day submerged in the magic algorithm that's literally designed to find out what makes them maddest and only show them that stuff. And then they curate that for only the most clickbaity and infuriating stuff, which they repost over to SA for people who use this site as their primary politics news source. Even if we banned direct Twitter embeds, the general impact of social media on political discourse still has quite the effect all on its own. Chuds aren't the only people being convinced by social media that their posting is a crucial front in the war for the future of America. Politics is a very personal matter and therefore very controversial and it always has been. Politics affects everyone so everyone is gonna have an opinion about it and if you think you're getting a raw deal you're going to be angry about it. People are pissed because they feel that the government has abandoned them not because there's a computer wizard in California casting antipathy. That's a 9th level spell, bro. The component cost alone would bankrupt them.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2021 21:50
|
|
|
Would it be possible to hear from the mods on what they believe the problems are in DnD? I know that FoS made a good post about posters abusing the rules to win arguments. Could we hear more stuff like that? Why does the mod team believe that DnD has become so toxic? Or do they not believe it's toxic in the first place? Would be good to know. If I missed any significant mod input in the nearly 30 pages itt please point it out. Also possible that the 60 page qcs thread had some stuff I was missing. I dunno, lots of words flying around. Also people have been hurling "suggestions" at the mod team for almost a week now and it feels like a lot of them have been dismissed outright. I'm not even sure the posters and the mods are on the same page so I'm not sure what the next step in this process should even be.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 28, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
How are u posted:Here's an example of the type of doomerism that gets pretty tired and old, from earlier this morning. I don't know why one person claiming "everything will be fine" is much different from another saying "no it won't". Maybe there is some context I'm missing, but claiming that incremental change is too slow to address the realities of climate change feels like a coherent line of thinking. Edit: same for fascism, even if I disagree. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Oct 28, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Oct 28, 2021 23:11
|
|
|
The split between the polls thread and the election thread allowed two different cliques of posters to post about the same thing in different ways without making GBS threads in each other's pool. It was a great way to handle such an extremely contentious issue, just creating two different spaces for two different groups to hang out and chill and do their own thing. But to pretend as though there wasn't an ideological divide is kind of silly. The election thread was clearly a Bernie cheer box (and eventual funeral procession), and the polls thread was happy to root for the Democratic establishment and against the Republicans. Despite it being ostensibly against the rules, many posts in the polls thread were how terrible the Rs were especially Trump and there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's a good model for the rest of the forum, although at this point I'm not sure if there are enough posters for there to be separate factions.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 14:44
|
|
|
UCS Hellmaker posted:It also was because literally there was no place to effectively talk about the campgain or the polling of any state. The ge thread was a trash fire that actively screamed at people attempting to discuss nuances and things related to what was going on. It was focused on ideology and not on anything substantial going on with the actual election at that point. Polliwonks had heavy rules that it wasn't going to be a second election thread and it stayed fairly consistent to only focusing on what was going on in the polls, the ground team (with many goons actively relaying stuff from their volunteering) and on what the possible route to victory or poll deficits were. See, I had literally the opposite experience. the polliwonks thread felt very detached from the realities of the election. It seemed incredibly focused on who was going to win, but not why winning was important. And that's fine, the horserace was fun to watch and different people are going to want different things from their election threads. I do disagree that ideologically aligned threads can't support a discussion. I'd argue that even the assertion that an ideological neutrality can exist at all is an ideologically charged statement. Removing political alignments from a political discussion is itself a political move.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 17:47
|
|
|
Cease to Hope posted:You're right that people should probably say things like "what you are saying is hateful" and not "you are a hateful person," but it doesn't make that big a difference. Nobody is less offended by "what you are saying is rape apologia" than by "you are a rape apologist." Hard disagree, op. Tone is important and can change the way the reader interprets information. Someone will be far more receptive without personal accusations.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 17:56
|
|
|
Cease to Hope posted:"What you are saying is rape apologia" is an accusation. You can hem and haw about grammar, and tone and, hell, I agree. But it will always be read by the person you are speaking to as an accusation. Yeah, but you are not accusing the person themselves of being a bad person, you're saying the thing they are doing is bad,and imo that makes all the difference when talking on the internet.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 18:06
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:No offense, but I suspect arguing that "The reprisals for Tianamen Square are debatable" and "Mass Incarceration for Uighurs is HELPING them" are going to be extremely controversial opinions regardless of rules changes. So just be aware. Does someone have the unedited tank man video handy?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 20:48
|
|
|
Pamela Springstein posted:Thread has gotten very productive and it would be a mistake to close it tonight. Same. It's take a week, but actual conversations about moderation policies are happening instead of just petty sniping which is also happening but a little is ok I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2021 23:11
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 15:39 |
|
|
What is the moderation stance on whether the Chinese government is secretly sending terror squads to intimidate expats in California into forwarding perfidious Chinese goals? How different should it be from the moderation stance that MS-13 is terrorizing Mexican immigrants, or that Jews take orders from secret cabals to forward Israeli goals? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Oct 30, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Oct 30, 2021 14:00
|
|