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I think that rape apologists in this forum should be treated far more harshly than just sixers or being horrific enough to get banned but then sending a pm to claim they were being sarcastic and didnt mean it like that! And getting unbanned. Stop probing over stupid inoccuous poo poo like just posting a tweet that's fairly relevant to the discussion. There's harsh probes over really boring basic discussion but late and light probes for monstrous poo poo. Basically I'm saying :do better. Also the bad faith posting rule is utter garbage. It's incredibly subjective and stupid. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 03:59
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Mellow Seas posted:People who prefer CSPAM to D&D, but still want to post here: what do you think D&D can do to incorporate the things you like about CSPAM while still maintaining its own identity as a distinct subforum? What should the differences between D&D and CSPAM be? I used to enjoy posting in dnd until probes started getting thrown around for literally any tiny poo poo. Like half my probes are for "getting the last word" when I didn't even know the person I was arguing with got probed because it was less than a minute before and I don't f5 the page that hard and I tend to take a few minutes to write my responses. Also probing for stupid poo poo like "bad faith posting" I'll let you in on a secret - I'm always posting in good faith. I sincerely believe the things I post. I'm too boring to try to do anything different. I've lived through a ton of hosed up poo poo and it's colored my opinions. Dnd needs to chill the gently caress out. You can't have a productive discussion about anything if you constantly have to be concerned the person you are talking with is going to get probed. You can't have a productive discussion if having a different interpretation of an opinion article will get you probed. I like both cspam and I like dnd but if dnd can't be both transparent in the rules and actually treat people even handedly I don't see a reason to come back here.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:24
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It's not just uspol where dnd takes itself too seriously. For a recentish example in the metoo thread, there was a bit of a lull in discussions, Cosby got brought up, people threw out some one liners and disgust at the justice system for allowing him to get out of jail and multiple people ended up probed over it. Like what the gently caress. How can you tell a bunch of survivors that they can't just be mad at the system for a few posts to let off steam?
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Oct 26, 2021 17:34
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Mellow Seas posted:OK, well, gently caress 'em? Who cares? Literally almost everything you post in USNews is "less than celebratory towards Dems," you post in that thread a lot more than I do, and you get less probations than I do. Where's the problem? Willa gets probed and ramped constantly for petty poo poo and you know it. Most of its baited trash and if she doesn't take the bait she gets harassed about it.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:44
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enki42 posted:
Saving lives because people are more important than the economy or government officials saving face after they hosed up?
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Oct 26, 2021 17:49
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enki42 posted:My point was that there is a larger range of viewpoints in D&D, not that D&D is objectively correct (it can't be because there is more than one opinion there) and C-SPAM is wrong - the fact that your response to that was basically "well all the other opinions are wrong" doesn't help convince me that C-SPAM is more inclusive of other viewpoints, which is the root of this discussion. Im just saying, thats the view point and if you work from that lens while discussing new policies and actions by governments then thats how you have productive discussions in cspam COVID thread.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:02
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socialsecurity posted:Willa has 3 probes in the past 2 months and posts about 100 times a day in USNEWS, there was a ramp back in August over a series of shitposts none of that feels like constantly, it really feels like CSPAM have created their own echo chamber cinematic universe nonsense "D&D probes anyone who doesn't love the dems" and "people were forumbanned at the drop of the hat for not liking a dem" and spend their time raging over it. I think the solution to fixing D&D is to close the Succ thread so there stops being a thread that encourages cspammers to come argue with usnews for the purpose of trolling and farming quotes for their weird circlejerk thread. Like 2 months ago Willa got ramped after posting an accurate statement, someone responded to her who clearly misread what she posted then ran with it harassing her for like 3 pages then Steve stepped in and probed the guy who was harassing her then multiple people whined to steve that it was a bad shoot. The whole thing was a hilarious encapsulation. But regardless, I like the succ thread because we don't just discuss what USPOL is up to - we discuss all the stupid poo poo the dems are up to around the internet. USPOL just happens to produce some opinions that are exactly as mealy mouthed as any matt yglesias article. If you have a problem with that, I dont know what to tell you. If the same opinions were posted on reddit, they'd get dragged over to succ to and they do because I go and source reddit regularly. and twitter. I only started posting in succ because any attempts i've made over the last year to have an honest discussion about something in USPOL has resulted in me or other people in the discussion getting probed. Succ was a direct result of people being unable to call out lovely politicians and engage to figure out why people hold lovely opinions. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 18:08
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enki42 posted:Right, but that's going against what I want from a thread. I want to see a variety of viewpoints, and if how you have productive discussions is "this is the viewpoint, if you work from that lens you can have a good discussion" is maybe a useful thing for some people, but directly works against having a lot of different viewpoints. You can have plenty of productive conversations about policies and how many people they will save or kill or peoples motivations for said policies. If you are starting from a view point of "its ok to kill people in the name of profit" or "Its ok if some people die because we relaxed policies to make some people feel better" then yes I agree, you probably wont be able to have a productive discussion because its pretty anathema in the same way that rape apologists or genocide denial is.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:28
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enki42 posted:I think you should read the D&D COVID thread, because I haven't heard those viewpoints expressed and those aren't the only possible alternative viewpoints to COVID zero being the only acceptable option. The long discussion I mentioned was precisely about this. I actually do lurk the DND covid thread. I prefer not to engage.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:30
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enki42 posted:I think you should read the D&D COVID thread, because I haven't heard those viewpoints expressed and those aren't the only possible alternative viewpoints to COVID zero being the only acceptable option. The long discussion I mentioned was precisely about this. I think the big difference is looking at the results of policies. One big thing in CSPAM that i've noticed that differs from DND is that in CSPAM intentions are given very little weight. What matters is outcomes. If the outcome of a policy is clearly going to result in more people being hurt/dead/maimed then its not going to be given any sort of positive evaluation. Its the same thing when it comes to politicians. CSPAM cares very little about politicians and personality - what matters is policies and outcomes.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:41
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socialsecurity posted:Sorry I don't think there should be a thread in the forum that exists to harass and stalk another part of the forum. I dont think reading a thread and thinking "wow this opinion is awful but I can't say that here because ill get probed but I want to talk about it so i'll talk about it somewhere is" is stalking.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:41
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enki42 posted:I don't think I've seen this really expressed in D&D - can you think of an example? Hell, I spend half my time saying that the current conservative government in Ontario has a half-decent recovery plan that's working so far, and overall I'm extremely against any of their other policies. Probably less recently but there was a bit of attachment to that one economist early on who was saying "its ok for kids to go to school and they dont get covid!" Her name slipped from my brain but in the end it turned out she was being funded by Koch. She was couching her language in a way that a lot of democrats really liked but if you looked at her background it was wild that she was being treated as an expert. She made this whole risk evaluation chart that people I know in real life were leaning on to say that it was fine for their kids to run around and do "normal" stuff. People definitely got run off for calling out her background. edit: ITS EMILY OSTER god gently caress I also dont really get the "there arent international opinions in the CSPAM COVID thread" when a couple of the most frequent posters in and from Australia, Denmark and the Philippines. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 19:27
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edit: wrong thread
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Oct 26, 2021 20:09
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:While I'm not a fan of CommieGIR "posting through it", as the saying goes, in all fairness they have been attacked relentlessly by dozens of posters for the past week and I can't blame them for getting increasingly more defensive and flippant. People have very legitimate beef with him and have gotten frustrated over months of nothing being done about it. He has a habit of making up rules in his head then probing against those, probing for doom posting, probing for discussing something longer than he wants to discuss it. Its reasonable that people have lost their chill with this.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:26
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Honestly I am kind of shocked the mods have never tried something like a google form for feedback. Its easy to spin up an account for privacy and build a form with some ratings to shoot into an excel format to parse.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:45
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fool of sound posted:Because I'm stupid enough to keep believing that people can discuss changes like reasonable adults instead of overgrown children screaming and throwing fruit in the produce isle and challenging the shift manager to a fight. I thought things were going pretty well all things considered. It was all very civil. fool of sound posted:We've discussed this before, in QCS, and the response was "why do the coward mods want to hide the feedback??" so here we are I guess. I mean, if this is too mean or uncivilized for you then yeah you should probably take the feedback in private but nothing here seems overtly problematic or mean.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:48
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fool of sound posted:I think the report button can technically be removed but you can get around that via url shenanigans. I think the big problem with the "mods just read the threads" approach is USnews, which in any of it's many incarnations over the years has always been too big, fast, and difficult to moderate. The only time during my tenure as mod where I feel like the thread was under control was when we had like 4 permanent IKs for it. I dont think its so much that people don't want to follow but if you are having an organic conversation/discussion about something and someone says take it somewhere else, even in real life the conversation generally just stops. People aren't really behaving any differently here than real people in an office.
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Oct 26, 2021 21:06
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fool of sound posted:The problem is that USNews isn't an organic conversation. There are too many people pursuing too many lines of discussion at once, in a manner that doesn't encourage or require them to actually participate in a dialogue. It's a high school locker room, where there's a bunch of individual conversations happening until someone throws down, and then there's no room for nuance because everything is written for the benefit of the audience. I guess I disagree? I post here exactly the way I talk to people in person or in my company teams chat. I guess other people don't but im not looking to throw down with anyone, I just want to talk about policy and outcomes.
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Oct 26, 2021 21:11
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fool of sound posted:The reason for this was that we implemented it at the time USpol, but it was widely unpopular so we turned it back off. If probes for petty poo poo in USPOL would stop and it went to a 5-10 minute posting timer I think it would be a legitimately enjoyable place to read and participate in again.
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Oct 26, 2021 21:45
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I can't see posters law court with out thinking Im sorry im sorry.
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Oct 26, 2021 21:58
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fool of sound posted:No it's the conversation that 2-3 people want to have, while the other 100 regulars in USPol PM me 8 times and file collectively 30 reports about because they want to discuss breaking news in USNews, not vaping policy. I've seen this happen with something that was relevant recent news though - where people are still having a very productive conversation about say a news item that became relevant the day before and its just like BREAK IT UP BREAK IT UP TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE and its like ... well poo poo. Like if vaping policy had a major change or a report about how policy changes to vaping policy changed behavior just came out, why not let people hash it?
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Oct 26, 2021 22:37
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fool of sound posted:Because when those new threads are actually made not only does the quality of the conversation frequently improve, but the posters who did not want to discuss it at length don't get upset and whining in thread about it. Conversations aren't usually sent to their own threads unless they're pretty lengthy and other news is happening. I'd say afghanistan was fairly unique and because it is a huge topic it definitely deserves it own thread. But does a topic like "President calls to ban bubble gum flavored vapes" deserve its own full thread? ehhhh there isnt a ton to eek out of that stone.
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Oct 26, 2021 22:54
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I said what I felt and had to say in the metoo thread. I posted my fuckin guts into that thread and explained how I felt dnd treated survivors and how this place feels unsafe. It felt like it fell on deaf ears over and over again and still feels that way. Every time rape apologists are allowed to keep goading survivors into responding to their gross poo poo. A few of my probes were directly responding to people who were being disgusting. You want this place to feel safe? Permaban those fucks.
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Oct 27, 2021 09:32
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Main Paineframe posted:if i see anyone praising his genocide of Native Americans, i'll be sure to let you know, buddy! LOL this sounds exactly like someone who does the whole "you know, at least mousilini made the trains run on time" shtick. Genociders are Genociders just like rapists are just rapists. You don't have to give em a hand. They really don't need it.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:30
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It's cool. I only get more frustrated and lash out more and more every time someone asks me to educate them on "what's wrong with DnD: re : sexual assault" and I'm sure by the end of the day I'll end up eating a probe because it fucks me up to explain the same poo poo over and over again to an audience that only pretends to care.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:54
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fool of sound posted:OK, then I think we've heard enough from you in this thread. To be clear this looks really bad. They made a solid point so you are nitpicking at something other than their points.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:37
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I feel like I could be an even handed mod but im also a very sensitive baby with very sensitive feelings. I also tend to read the most positive possible spin on every statement and am sometimes fairly shocked at the ways people interpret things. I do assume all politicians are bad and poo poo though and are always doing evil. A dichotomy. hmm
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Oct 28, 2021 00:51
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I still feel very strongly that the report button should auto 1 hour probe for the person submitting it. It would really cut back on the mashing of the report button. I'm still so shocked that there's people who report constantly. I think I've filed like less than 10 in my entire time on SA.
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Oct 28, 2021 01:01
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In general people should be mad that the democratic leadership and media pushed a rapist to the general election and made people feel like they had no other choice but to vote for a rapist. However in terms of something awful, what really pisses me off is people doing rape apologia like "oh she went to RT, she's just trying to get attention!" (ignoring that she specifically did ask for help from various news orgs who literally directly said "no, we wont go after Joe Biden at all") I could name names but that would be posting about posters and some of them are in this very thread.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:55
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Bel Shazar posted:I think the concept of 'support' is important here. Begrudgingly voting for someone isn't support, but if you buy in and support them... that's going to bring all their baggage with them. I disagree. I think if you vote for someone you are supporting them and their policies both. A vote is an endorsement of a candidate imo. But I suppose its all personal opinion there. IDK. I definitely get icky around people who knew about the Tara Reade and the 8 other women who said he violated them/their space/made them feel uncomfortable but still voted for them. I can't fault anyone who just didnt know because the media sucks poo poo though.
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Oct 29, 2021 18:12
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Kaedric posted:Fun side note: the people who reacted (myself included) with disgust to your rape apologia were probated several hours before you eventually were, and one was in fact threadbanned! Gotta maintain that decorum. Personally my favorite part of my rap sheet are the like 3-4 times that I told rape apologists to gently caress off and got probed for "parting shots" or "you are usually a better poster"
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Oct 29, 2021 20:21
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The default should always be to believe, mostly because there's literally no benefit to accusing someone powerful at all. Its literally all life negatives so why the gently caress would anyone do it with out it being real. Like literally just take Blaise Ford and Reade: Both of them were chased out of their own houses, feel very unsafe and are constantly harassed.
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Oct 29, 2021 21:29
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"We had really hoped people would just stop talking about the woman who was raped by the democratic nominee - president" is definitely a stance.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:45
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Imagine if someone - anyone - had said that about one of the women trump raped. Im legitimately just posting this so you can think about how this sounds to survivors. We hope people will stop thinking about you, talking about you, acknowledging you. As a survivor its loving gutting to continually hear these sorts of statements. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 00:00
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GreyjoyBastard posted:That's fair. Our - or at least my - decisions were bad and based in a desire to not evaluate where exactly the line is in what people can say about rape accusations, because making those decisions sucks and will lead to everyone being angry. Look I really do get that you nor any moderator isnt really equipped to handle these sorts of discussions but neither is anyone who deals with this ourselves. Even after what was done to me, I probably didnt always say the right things or know the right things to do and I definitely didnt get therapy or deal with poo poo until years later and its never really dealt with but you should be trying to grow and learn and listen and it feels like over and over again the mods of this forum really just absolutely dig in to these positions and it is hurtful. I was just sitting here debating asking for a sixer because it legitimately is hard to police myself and my reactions to this.
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Oct 30, 2021 00:18
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GreyjoyBastard posted:okay so no There's definitely a difference between feeling like you got punted off to a thread to have your conversations where other people aren't going to see them - A big thing about USPol is it is one of the highest traffic threads on SA. I wanted to have that conversation in public where other people could see it. Its another thing to hear that it was directly a policy to hope that the conversation would die.
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Oct 30, 2021 00:23
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 19:44 |
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fool of sound posted:I want more people to participate in non-USNews discussion and am willing to experiment to make that happen. The things I'm not willing to do are: One thing I can think that might legitimately help is that if someone brings up convo in USPOL / News that has another thread for to be very proactive about linking those threads. Like don't be a dick about it and be like THERES ANOTHER PLACE FOR THAT CONVO /probe 6 hours - but a - hey, the US is sending a bunch of subs to gently caress around near Taiwan - hey here's a link to the military policy thread ( idk if there is one but just for the sake of examples ) Like im not sure if there should be an onus for the poster but maybe it could be helpful. Like here's a mega thread for a bunch of news listening and happenings, if you happen to know where people should go to talk about it - heres the link - or you can say "I dont think there's another place to talk about this" I get that you want more signal to noise in that thread and the intentions but I think a lot of people might be like me and have some curated bookmarks but otherwise dont poke around much, but I will click links in thread if there's a topic i'd like to learn about.
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Oct 30, 2021 00:42
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