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the sex ghost posted:Felming to see that even in the new shiny forward thinking prem even the slightest suggestion of 'we should think about giving some of this telly money that would be impossible for us to spend to clubs who aren't on telly' is still met with shrieks of horror Impossible to spend? That money could be invested into a cheese and wine bar fitted with a one-way mirror into the changing rooms. Revenue. Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 00:18
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In fairness, I absolutely believe that the problem with the Championship is not that there isn't enough money to keep the lights on, and creating a revenue-sharing scheme does nothing except inflate wages for poo poo players who turn out for Reading, and then a drop-off to non-league as a new point at which clubs die if they fall below. We should 100% be going in the other direction and capping spending and ticket prices. otoh leeds man bad
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Dec 1, 2021 00:27
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FullLeatherJacket posted:In fairness, I absolutely believe that the problem with the Championship is not that there isn't enough money to keep the lights on, and creating a revenue-sharing scheme does nothing except inflate wages for poo poo players who turn out for Reading, and then a drop-off to non-league as a new point at which clubs die if they fall below. Wages are inflated because football club owners and executives offer to pay them. Salary caps and spending limits simply put a limit on what the labour element can earn from the game, in order to protect the profit margins of companies. Until money is removed from the top level those in charge of clubs in the lower tiers will constantly feel pressured to spend beyond their means to reach the "promised land" (of usually even more spending, but £100m/yr of extra revenue is one hell of a carrot). But player earnings shouldn't be shackled because a bunch of idiots lack self-control. Reading's players deserve to be paid as much as they can get, for as long as they can get it, wherever is offering it to them. If Reading end up paying more than they can afford (or 3x more than they can afford which is closer to the case) that's the fault of the people writing up the contracts, not the players accepting them.
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Dec 1, 2021 01:14
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sassassin posted:Wages are inflated because football club owners and executives offer to pay them. Salary caps and spending limits simply put a limit on what the labour element can earn from the game, in order to protect the profit margins of companies. I’d say: the lower league clubs should own and play all the young players which the richest premier league clubs have hoarded in youth setups and loaned out on an industrial scale. Selling those players on is how they should be making money to keep going. Importing players from around the world to play in our 2nd and 3rd tier is insane, harms the game everywhere and denies young players a chance to prove themselves.
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Dec 1, 2021 10:48
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sassassin posted:Wages are inflated because football club owners and executives offer to pay them. Salary caps and spending limits simply put a limit on what the labour element can earn from the game, in order to protect the profit margins of companies. I don't disagree with the majority of that, and I'm not saying that the issue is players demanding too much money, but as long as you have 24 teams competing for three spots, you can pour an infinite amount of money into the Championship (which is already richer than a lot of top leagues) and it'll just go straight back out the door and have the chairmen all bleating that they're skint and why can't they have more of the Premier League money again. So, yeah - I do think that at the point you start talking about capping spending you have to tie it to making football community-owned and accessible, but a bunch of MPs just saying that Reading need more money from Liverpool because they can barely afford to pay the contracts that they've signed is completely upside-down and solves nothing.
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Dec 1, 2021 10:49
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FullLeatherJacket posted:I don't disagree with the majority of that, and I'm not saying that the issue is players demanding too much money, but as long as you have 24 teams competing for three spots, you can pour an infinite amount of money into the Championship (which is already richer than a lot of top leagues) and it'll just go straight back out the door and have the chairmen all bleating that they're skint and why can't they have more of the Premier League money again. The cause of the problem is the insane income gap between team no. 20 and no. 21 in the pyramid. A Championship club without parachute payments can expect to bring in £15-25m a year, while the PL awards £100m in TV money alone (and it's not like most PL teams are on Sky more often than Championship teams, they just get paid far more for the privilege). Getting promoted carries such a ludicrous financial reward, bigger than any other competitive accomplishment in the sport. Getting into a Champions League group stage is ~£15m, and yet people panic if a club earning hundreds of millions a year misses out on that. The effective only way to protect "community assets" that are run as businesses is to take more money from Liverpool, West Ham, Aston Villa, Brentford, and close the gap between them and QPR, Coventry, Millwall and yes, eventually Reading down in 41st. It's not like this revenue gap is a long-standing tradition or something that's only recently stopped working after decades of success - 10 years ago the TV money for winning with PL was £60m, while last season Sheff Utd banked £91m. Championship income has barely changed, apart from the £4.5m the PL already dishes out to the beggars in the second tier, which does nothing to solve the problem as the gap still keeps widening. You either narrow that gap, or MLS the EFL.
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Dec 1, 2021 11:22
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wooger posted:I’d say: the lower league clubs should own and play all the young players which the richest premier league clubs have hoarded in youth setups and loaned out on an industrial scale. The EPPP established to drive up standards in English academies has ended up working against this idea a bit. It's become very expensive to run an academy for the younger age groups, and even when grants cover half the costs £1-3m a year is a significant investment to a club outside the top tier. Swansea's Cat 1 setup was costing ~£4m iirc, so no surprise it was cut back when covid hit. We've not even seen the players who have been fully brought up in that system yet, its a long term investment. Ownership of young players falls to the club that's training them, and the incentive is for big, rich clubs to train players in volume.
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Dec 1, 2021 11:36
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My '200% earnings tax on clubs I don't like, to be distributed to clubs I do like' proposal was ignored again and I shall be writing to my MP
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Dec 1, 2021 11:45
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the sex ghost posted:Was going to make a joke about 'Maoist third worldism more like Howeist three pointism' but Norwich loving ruined it I look forward to your new tactics blog Ayling smashes heaven
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Dec 1, 2021 11:49
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sassassin posted:The cause of the problem is the insane income gap between team no. 20 and no. 21 in the pyramid. A Championship club without parachute payments can expect to bring in £15-25m a year, while the PL awards £100m in TV money alone (and it's not like most PL teams are on Sky more often than Championship teams, they just get paid far more for the privilege). Getting promoted carries such a ludicrous financial reward, bigger than any other competitive accomplishment in the sport. Getting into a Champions League group stage is ~£15m, and yet people panic if a club earning hundreds of millions a year misses out on that. I was around ten years ago (and longer), and you had exactly the same issues with clubs regularly going pop, moreso than now, which is why they brought in points penalties for going into administration. You had exactly the same issues with teams yo-yoing between divisions. The gap has gotten bigger, but there's always been a gap in modern football. I'm not against some form of redistribution and levelling, but unless you're going to do the same into League One and League Two and so on, you're going to have to force clubs to spend sustainably or otherwise go back to 1991, split all television 92 ways and make membership of the league by vote. I'm sure there are six Rochdale fans who'll spit out their bovril if I say that's not a good idea, but it's really not. sassassin posted:The EPPP established to drive up standards in English academies has ended up working against this idea a bit. It's become very expensive to run an academy for the younger age groups, and even when grants cover half the costs £1-3m a year is a significant investment to a club outside the top tier. Swansea's Cat 1 setup was costing ~£4m iirc, so no surprise it was cut back when covid hit. We've not even seen the players who have been fully brought up in that system yet, its a long term investment. Would agree with this. It's a nice idea that Johnny Shitkicker can start out in Macclesfield's youth team and then play his way up through the leagues before getting an England call-up, but at some point you need to make a choice between that and having young prospects at elite academies getting specialist training rather than being taught how to run up and down and how to get rid by someone who last learned something new about the game in 1985. The FA is very much going to side with the second option, and to be honest, it's paying dividends on an international level (for Wales as well, I believe).
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Dec 1, 2021 12:32
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FullLeatherJacket posted:I'm not against some form of redistribution and levelling, but unless you're going to do the same into League One and League Two and so on, you're going to have to force clubs to spend sustainably or otherwise go back to 1991, split all television 92 ways and make membership of the league by vote. I'm sure there are six Rochdale fans who'll spit out their bovril if I say that's not a good idea, but it's really not. Championship TV money is already tied to a dogshit deal that involves League One and Two sides. The EFL acts as a (corrupt, lazy and barely functional) block. Instead of forcing clubs to spend sustainably how about forcing TV companies? If Sky and BT stop shovelling billions into a single league then the whole mess gets sorted. But that would hurt companies and CEOs rather than labour, so naturally we can't limit the free market in that way.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:33
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sassassin posted:Championship TV money is already tied to a dogshit deal that involves League One and Two sides. The EFL acts as a (corrupt, lazy and barely functional) block. Instead of "shovelling billions into a single league" phrase it as "rinsing viewers for more and more money every year just to sometimes watch their team play on the telly" and you might get some public support. It's a joke how much more people have to pay every year just for the same thing.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:51
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FullLeatherJacket posted:I was around ten years ago (and longer), and you had exactly the same issues with clubs regularly going pop, moreso than now, which is why they brought in points penalties for going into administration. You had exactly the same issues with teams yo-yoing between divisions. The gap has gotten bigger, but there's always been a gap in modern football. One issue you run into with this is that any approach that restricts the finances of lower-division teams but not Premier League teams just makes it way harder to break into the Premier League. Right now, teams that overspend in the Championship to build a semi-PL side are more likely to be able to stay in the PL when they do get promoted, because they require less investment to get up to speed. Teams that are run sustainably, buy cheap players, and don't pay for big contracts occasionally do get promoted when the stars align, but they tend to go back down and stay there pretty quickly. If you force every Championship team to become one of them then you end up with 17 PL fixtures plus a bunch of yo-yo clubs, because the occasional 100m windfall for a year won't be enough for a poor Championship team to catch up to a team that's already been in the PL for a few years and has racked up 500 or 600m of income in that time. (Obviously it's still possible for a PL club to be horribly run and go down because they aren't actually spending that huge windfall on improving the side, but not every team is Newcastle) Any system of regulation that doesn't involve higher profit-sharing just ends up making the gap bigger because the top flight have so much more money to spend. Even if you expand a sustainable financing rule and say every club has to be sustainably run on its annual income, as long as you don't change the annual income then all the PL clubs are going to be sustainably run on incomes several times that of the richest Championship club and it will be extremely hard for a Championship club to break into the PL and stay there when they have to compete against an entire league of sides set up around sustainable massive incomes.
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Dec 1, 2021 14:54
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the sex ghost posted:My '200% earnings tax on clubs I don't like, to be distributed to clubs I do like' proposal was ignored again and I shall be writing to my MP further evidence of bias against The North I'd imagine. the two things I'll add into the finance discussion: One, the agents fees have gotten absolutely loving outlandish, and at minimum that needs to go in greater amounts to the players instead (as they're the ones who are doing the work) along with tightening up of what agents can do and who all can be "an agent"; and second, that sustainability is what's most important especially to the levels below the Premier League. The reason why American sports contracts continue to go up isn't from oil-rich sovereign wealth funds coming in, it's because (without going into all of the detail) the salary caps are connected to percentages of revenue. How that works when you have relegation and a full pyramid is a trickier question, of course, but shouldn't be impossible to figure out.
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Dec 1, 2021 14:59
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The Super League wanted salary caps and revenue based spending limits. It's a good idea if the aim is to preserve company profits and prevent your labourers' ability to get paid what they're worth. Salary caps are also good for tax-dodgers as more money will move into agents fees and bonuses instead of regular income.
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Dec 1, 2021 15:33
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59493509Arteta posted:Gabby showed a lot of character, you see the reaction that he had straight away. Credit to the boy. After that he was fine. Waiting for a twitter post from the robbers saying 'we go again!' Now.
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Dec 1, 2021 17:30
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I think having a separate organisation running the Premier League and the divisions below is just a really bad idea and unless that is taken away there's no way lower level clubs will get anything. I mean the whole idea was to set up a separate league to get more money so if you want to get out of that I think the first step is creating a unified organisation of all four top leagues with equal voting rights on how the money is going to be spent.
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Dec 1, 2021 23:44
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elbkaida posted:I think having a separate organisation running the Premier League and the divisions below is just a really bad idea and unless that is taken away there's no way lower level clubs will get anything. I mean the whole idea was to set up a separate league to get more money so if you want to get out of that I think the first step is creating a unified organisation of all four top leagues with equal voting rights on how the money is going to be spent. agreed
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Dec 2, 2021 00:01
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Salah and Jota are very good and I’m glad that they both play for the football club that I support.
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Dec 2, 2021 00:04
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Mo sez Balon D'eez nuts
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Dec 2, 2021 00:30
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Arsenal would go 4th with a win tomorrow 
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Dec 2, 2021 00:50
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Arteta Must... Ascend?!?! 
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Dec 2, 2021 06:06
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sourdough posted:Arsenal would go 4th with a win tomorrow Haven’t played anyone good between City in August and Liverpoo two weeks ago.
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Dec 2, 2021 11:07
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hadji murad posted:Haven’t played anyone good between City in August and Liverpoo two weeks ago. Applying the tried and true Arsene Wenger strategy of beating up on everyone besides the top three. It worked a trick for years to earn us that top four trophy.
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Dec 2, 2021 12:42
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Arsenal really need to qualify for Europe this season somehow because they're facing dropping into the coefficient space Inter have been in recently, which fucks up chances of moving forwards in any competition they eventually qualify for.
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Dec 2, 2021 13:04
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Good to see my fellow Evertonians turned on the Board at the match last night. To be fair Kenwright is a legend but Moshiri is a bit more volatile and we should have a more stable in depth squad by now but he has wasted so much money its unreal
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Dec 2, 2021 13:42
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Andoman posted:Good to see my fellow Evertonians turned on the Board at the match last night. To be fair Kenwright is a legend but Moshiri is a bit more volatile and we should have a more stable in depth squad by now but he has wasted so much money its unreal Hmm what’s this? Rafa is getting mediocre results and generating friction between the club and the owners? Never heard this before.
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Dec 2, 2021 13:43
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Andoman posted:Good to see my fellow Evertonians turned on the Board at the match last night. To be fair Kenwright is a legend but Moshiri is a bit more volatile and we should have a more stable in depth squad by now but he has wasted so much money its unreal blue footed boobie posted:Hmm what’s this? Rafa is getting mediocre results and generating friction between the club and the owners? Never heard this before. Are you saying Everton's board don't deserve more scrutiny? The Benitez appointment might not have been a great move, but they spunked over 500 million GBP in net spend over the last 5 seasons have nothing to show for it in terms of squad quality. The new stadium could also easily turn into a poo poo show if Everton don't massively improve in pretty much every element of club operations soon too. The last truly good manager who was committed to the club, really "got" the fanbase and was not just biding time until something else came along was Martinez, I think.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:57
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everton was dire yesterday. I don't know why, but it was bad. normally they're a tough opponent for liverpool no matter who is playing or managing. i dont follow them closely enough to dissect the problem, but based on that game, it is something pretty significant
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Dec 2, 2021 16:07
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Eric Cantonese posted:Are you saying Everton's board don't deserve more scrutiny? The Benitez appointment might not have been a great move, but they spunked over 500 million GBP in net spend over the last 5 seasons have nothing to show for it in terms of squad quality. Rafa shouldn't have taken the job to be fair - tough job for anyone but an absolute poison chalice for an Ex-Red manager. People are angry about the small club comment made what 15 years ago, but the stupid thing is he was partially right, the club was owned at that time by someone who quite simply couldn't afford to own a PL side and now its owned by someone who has the cash to splash but hasn't got a clue. We constantly live in Liverpool's shadow and have done since the 80's. We are a big club in terms of history and passionate fanbase but we act like a small club and have a Board that would in no world be termed as best in class. The club needs to be rebuild from the ground up. Personally I see the new stadium as an opportunity but time will tell
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Dec 2, 2021 16:12
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bewbies posted:everton was dire yesterday. I don't know why, but it was bad. normally they're a tough opponent for liverpool no matter who is playing or managing. Calvert-Lewin and Mina were both injured. That takes their best striker and their best CB out. Coleman, Keane and Godfrey in an ideal world would all have been sold or way down the squad pecking order. Richarlison was back, but that guy is always inconsistent and I definitely get the vibe that he wanted to leave a couple of windows ago. Rondon was at least fulfilling a (thankless) role, but he's old and not as fast as he used to be. Then he got injured too during the match. I think a couple of their better midfielders have also been injured. You basically got little attacking threat and a lot of defensive weakness. Also, Benitez has always been lackluster on the psychological man-management side and usually counts on the players' own sense of professional pride and self-interest to make his tactical instructions work. To me, Everton's players look like they need some real "arm around the shoulder" support because of the bad run, but that's Benitez's main weakness. You combine all that with a fanbase who don't even like the manager (and that seems to have colored how they view the players they got this last transfer window) and it's not going to be great. I thought Gray and Townsend were both good, though. Andoman posted:Rafa shouldn't have taken the job to be fair - tough job for anyone but an absolute poison chalice for an Ex-Red manager. People are angry about the small club comment made what 15 years ago, but the stupid thing is he was partially right, the club was owned at that time by someone who quite simply couldn't afford to own a PL side and now its owned by someone who has the cash to splash but hasn't got a clue. We constantly live in Liverpool's shadow and have done since the 80's. We are a big club in terms of history and passionate fanbase but we act like a small club and have a Board that would in no world be termed as best in class. The club needs to be rebuild from the ground up. Personally I see the new stadium as an opportunity but time will tell How do you feel about The Esk? I check in on his tweets and blog entries occasionally and he really makes it look like the ownership situation is pretty dire. Eric Cantonese fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 16:31
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Eric Cantonese posted:
He has done a really interesting series of articles on ownership and governance and it is hard to disagree with anything he has to say on the matter. The lack of Non-Execs on the Board is a glaring issue and when you look at the ridiculous transfers between 2016 and 2018 its easy to see how it happened with no real scrutiny of what the decision makers are doing. I am a big fan of Kenwright, not least because he saved the club but his very passion as a fan is why he cant make the big decisions - he is not strategic and he needs scrutiny.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:13
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blue footed boobie posted:Hmm what’s this? Rafa is getting mediocre results and generating friction between the club and the owners? Never heard this before. Is this the same Rafa who is incapable of building a squad and can only win with teams he walks into as already complete units? Just want to be clear.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:55
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harperdc posted:Applying the tried and true Arsene Wenger strategy of beating up on everyone besides the top three. It worked a trick for years to earn us that top four trophy. except wenger's teams actually always outclassed their non-top 4 opponents. arteta absolutely does not
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Dec 2, 2021 18:55
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Eric Cantonese posted:Are you saying Everton's board don't deserve more scrutiny? No I have no position for the board, and you’re probably right they have spent a lot of money poorly. I’m just pointing to the pattern of Rafa’s career after things went bad of not doing particularly well and maintaining his reputation because the owners take the heat. Shrapnig posted:Is this the same Rafa who is incapable of building a squad and can only win with teams he walks into as already complete units? Just want to be clear. The one and the same.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:02
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How the fuxk did they spend 500m lol
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Dec 2, 2021 19:08
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Bape Culture posted:How the fuxk did they spend 500m lol https://theesk.org/2021/11/26/part-iv-evertons-ownership-and-leadership-finance-and-funding/ 2016/2017: Bolasie, Schneiderlin, Williams, Lookman, Gueye - Total: 77.4m GBP 2017/2018: Siggurdson, Keane, Pickford, Klassen, Walcott, Tosun, Vlasic, Sandro, Rooney - Total: 182.9m GBP 2018/2019: Richarlison, Mina, Digne, Bernard - Total: 89.8m GBP 2019/2020: Iwobi, Kean, Gomes, Gbamin, Delph - Total: 108.9m GBP 2020/2021: Godfrey, Allan, Doucoure, Rodriguez - Total: 67.4m GBP And what does Rafa "Raffles" Benitez get for 2021/2022 so far? Damari Gray and Andros Townsend for 1.8m GBP combined.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:27
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Eric Cantonese posted:2017/2018: Siggurdson, Keane, Pickford, Klassen, Walcott, Tosun, Vlasic, Sandro, Rooney - Total: 182.9m GBP Sweet baby jesus
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Dec 2, 2021 19:37
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It's december
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Dec 2, 2021 19:45
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shut up blegum posted:It's december The calendar knower.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:48
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