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Mega64 posted:Fine, shoot me down with your valid and reasonable arguments, but didn't you ever wonder in the back of your head what Yang's daughter or Edward's secretary would be like? Or what would happen if Luca made her dolls semi-sentient? Or if Edge had a bunch of annoying hanger-ons that contributed nothing of value whatsoever? drat a prince having a retinue of useless staff? I'm shocked
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Apr 21, 2024 21:27
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Mega64 posted:Or if Edge had a bunch of annoying hanger-ons that contributed nothing of value whatsoever? The students have indeed learned well from the master.
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Apr 21, 2024 22:19
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Valisthea would be a pretty great setting for a strategy RPG. Imagine Triangle Strategy with kaiju battles.
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Apr 21, 2024 23:38
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What if a bunch of space aliens who all looked weirdly like one of the party members in the original FF4 showed up, and the similarity was just a complete coincidence and had no plot relevance at all?
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Apr 21, 2024 23:41
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Of the JRPGs I've played, the setting I think would best support additional stories is probably Sandail from SaGa Frontier 2. It doesn't hurt that the presentation and framing device of the story as a whole easily lends itself to the feeling of constructing a world.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:00
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XIII had a setting that would have made for decent sequel bait (what happens to a world now that the fal'cie are gone, the Primach system is dismantled, etc.) and then the sequels do absolutely nothing with that.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:26
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the sequels’ direction was better
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Apr 22, 2024 00:35
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FF14 patches 6.1-wherever it is now were a better sequel to 4 than Tay
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Apr 22, 2024 02:42
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Oxxidation posted:the sequels’ direction was better It was not.
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Apr 22, 2024 02:47
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I could deal with what FFXIII-2 wanted to tackle if combat had remained as good as FF13 but it didn't. Someday, someday I will get another game using the 13 combat system.
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Apr 22, 2024 03:08
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13-2’s combat is funny because on paper it fixes the common complaints about 13’s battle system (forced paradigm shift animations, game over if leader is KO’d), but in practice it just feels… worse, and I can’t really put my finger on why.
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Apr 22, 2024 03:11
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ApplesandOranges posted:13-2’s combat is funny because on paper it fixes the common complaints about 13’s battle system (forced paradigm shift animations, game over if leader is KO’d), but in practice it just feels… worse, and I can’t really put my finger on why. Having not touched 13-2 in a long time, a large part of it is 13's battle system lives and dies on the spread of your possible level versus enemy stats. You can only very mildly overlevel in 13 and since the game knows what skills you have at all times can push you. 13-2 as I recall throws out that design so combat can be a mess of overpowered or unexpected skills from the games difficulty curve
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Apr 22, 2024 03:16
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ApplesandOranges posted:13-2’s combat is funny because on paper it fixes the common complaints about 13’s battle system (forced paradigm shift animations, game over if leader is KO’d), but in practice it just feels… worse, and I can’t really put my finger on why. Because it isn't tightly designed like 13 was. What I specifically mean by that is that all throughout 13 you run into hard caps on how much you could move up the crystarium thing or whatever the pseudo skill trees were. They also knew roughly what paradigms you'd be using up until Pulse since it was a bunch of paired party members. So they could design all the fights to be at least vaguely interesting. In 13-2 you could have whatever the gently caress, go off in random directions and wildly overlevel and everything becomes a complete pushover by hour 10. Edit: Also, you can get one of the best monsters in the game in I thinkt he 2nd area they send you to and it's not particularly difficult. I got and used the silver chocobo for the entire game. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Apr 22, 2024 |
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Apr 22, 2024 03:24
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Also personally I think monster trainer systems should be in their own games and not have this weird 'two human party members that can change job, one monster party member that you replace constantly' system.
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Apr 22, 2024 03:28
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TAY just wasn't really interested in being much more than a Greatest Hits cover album of IV without so much as
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Apr 22, 2024 03:35
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Hellioning posted:Also personally I think monster trainer systems should be in their own games and not have this weird 'two human party members that can change job, one monster party member that you replace constantly' system. I agree, Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World sucked. Wait what were we talking about? FFXIII-2 was cool but yeah the fact that it wasn’t linear like FFXIII meant the balance was off. Lightning Returns had similar issues, I remember bashing my head against the Noel and Snow fights because I was under-leveled. It was silly that you could challenge tough bosses pretty much straight from the get-go. I think I eventually gave up on Noel and came back later and pounded his face in.
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Apr 22, 2024 03:45
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:I agree, Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World sucked. Wait what were we talking about? Lightning Returns is a lot better balanced. It gets easier as you go on but a big chunk of that is that you get access to more abilities and garbs which give you a much greater variety of options. Bosses actually get harder as the game goes on but you also get a lot more tools. Probably the biggest thing that can skew power heavily is some of the Last One weapons but even then only a couple of them are really something OP. There are some absolutely loving broken Garb combos that let you become functionally invincible of course but they're something you have to invest heavily in and usually have drawbacks. It's not as tightly designed as XIII but still a huge step up from FFXIII-2 where they didn't even try. Probably the biggest goof (and it's not even necessarily a goof) is that one of the superbosses can be killed just by poisoning it and then blocking all its attacks as it wears itself down.
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Apr 22, 2024 04:09
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ImpAtom posted:It's not as tightly designed as XIII but still a huge step up from FFXIII-2 where they didn't even try. Probably the biggest goof (and it's not even necessarily a goof) is that one of the superbosses can be killed just by poisoning it and then blocking all its attacks as it wears itself down. I get that XIII-2 has its problems, but I honestly don't count that among them, I love when a strategy like this actually works in an RPG. One of my favorite parts of Bravely Default 2 was realizing that I could drain the entire MP pool of every endgame boss, and that doing so is a meaningful and effective strategy.
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Apr 22, 2024 04:14
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Cleretic posted:I get that XIII-2 has its problems, but I honestly don't count that among them, I love when a strategy like this actually works in an RPG. One of my favorite parts of Bravely Default 2 was realizing that I could drain the entire MP pool of every endgame boss, and that doing so is a meaningful and effective strategy. Wasting your own time watching the hp bar tick isn't as meaningful or effective as Any Other Strat That Kills it. Especially in a game where your fight clears are rated by how fast you can complete them.
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Apr 22, 2024 05:58
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Thinking about sequel potential: FF1: Not really unless you want the warriors of light to return, which, ehhhh FF2: Maybe Firion and Maria had a child or something. Soul of Rebirth was a decent look at the afterlife starring the dying characters, so I'll count it. FF3: See FF1. XIVs crystal tower series serves as a pseudo sequel. FF4: we got TAY. FF5: Send Krile on an adventure and have her reunite with friends along the way. Decent potential. FF6: arguably the best given the number of characters. Locke / Celes, Relm, Gau, and Terra as a human are all worthy plots. FF7: are advent children and dirge of cerberus not enough?? FF8: the characters are all young enough to do a follow up but given it's like FF1 and they stopped the time loop you'd have to do a different type of conflict, wouldn't count on it. FF9: Give good Kuja his own game. I think Zidane / Garnet wrapped up nicely. FF10: got 10-2. FF12: got Revenant Wings. FF13: got 13-2 and Lightning Returns! FF15: considering the ending you'd have to find entirely new characters in that world. Highly unlikely. FF16: those kids at the end? Give em a story. Basically your best bets are 5 and 6.
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Apr 22, 2024 06:27
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seiferguy posted:Basically your best bets are 5 and 6. 
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Apr 22, 2024 06:33
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seiferguy posted:Thinking about sequel potential: The FF6 crew barely had enough character for the very thin writing in the WoR. THere's not much more there to evolve.
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Apr 22, 2024 06:37
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Wasting your own time watching the hp bar tick isn't as meaningful or effective as Any Other Strat That Kills it. Ranking systems are lovely and exist for developers who want to shame people for playing differently than they want, but don't want to actually do anything to stop them. If they only want me to play high-aggression combo strings or whatever, then they should either stop giving me those tools, or kill me for trying. None of this weakass 'we're giving you a D' bullshit. If your highest challenge can die to poison damage but you don't wsnt me to do that, then don't make it poison-vulnerable. God knows they're not afraid of doing that in every previous Final Fantasy.
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Apr 22, 2024 06:43
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Style is cool and good.
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Apr 22, 2024 07:07
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The FF6 crew barely had enough character for the very thin writing in the WoR. THere's not much more there to evolve. I'd argue the opposite. Small plot there meant you have opportunity to go anywhere for a sequel.
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Apr 22, 2024 07:20
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All FFs probably got enough going for another game tbh. They made two prequels to FF1, and that's as basic as it gets.
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Apr 22, 2024 07:22
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FF5 has its legally distinct not a sequel, remake, or reimagining with Final Fantasy Dimensions. Which I quite enjoyed
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Apr 22, 2024 07:24
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You could probably flesh the story with enuo out into a full sequel
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Apr 22, 2024 07:53
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Cleretic posted:Ranking systems are lovely and exist for developers who want to shame people for playing differently than they want, but don't want to actually do anything to stop them. How... how is it shaming? You don't have to tell anyone your rank? How is "you can scrape through this, but that's less good than learning the ins and outs of the system" better than "unless you are this good you cannot progress"? Ranking systems are surely better than hard difficulty gating.
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Apr 22, 2024 07:59
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Usually exploiting a boss weakness and doing it very fast aren't mutually exclusive. Poison is not a very good example because it's straight up DPS buff that stacks with everything else. I'm still a little salty about FF16 ranking system which prioritizes points over speed and efficiency. But it had a funny side effect that all those skills you thought are useless are actually really good for points while OP skills are terrible for points.
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Apr 22, 2024 08:18
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lines posted:How... how is it shaming? You don't have to tell anyone your rank? How is "you can scrape through this, but that's less good than learning the ins and outs of the system" better than "unless you are this good you cannot progress"? Ranking systems are surely better than hard difficulty gating. If you read back, you'll realize that the context we're talking about wasn't 'scraping by', it was 'this strategy against this boss works perfectly but gives you a bad rank'. Being more fair and analytical on the subject, there's one series that I do routinely like ranking systems in: Sonic. But that's a very different context, because there's not multiple ways to play Sonic; the game doesn't give you a bad rank for playing with a toolkit it doesn't like. There's only one toolkit, if you get a bad rank in Sonic it's because you did Sonic bad. If a game's giving me a bunch of choices for your playstyle, but rank-shames me for using some of them? gently caress that, if you don't want me to use them, don't give me them, don't pull this milquetoast 'winning with this give you a bad rank'. Devil May Cry had the same problem, it hated me solving all its problems with a grenade launcher, but apparently didn't hate it enough to just not give me the grenade launcher.
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Apr 22, 2024 08:21
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I agree that ranking systems based on "style" are bit frustrating. Especially when compared to ninja gaiden that has a very easy to understand system. Clear the level, dont take damage or use items and boom master ninja.
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Apr 22, 2024 08:27
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I think a 9 "sequel", set in the same world but like a thousand years later, would be pretty drat cool. Basically same world where the events of the game did happen, but long enough from them that none of the characters are relevant. Just a whole new cast of random people, I don't know, fighting Maenads and Lufenians with the help of Jack Garland or something.
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Apr 22, 2024 09:55
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Cleretic posted:If you read back, you'll realize that the context we're talking about wasn't 'scraping by', it was 'this strategy against this boss works perfectly but gives you a bad rank'. That makes sense (your Sonic explanation). In FF16 I am very much a lover of the cheap OP tools that they rank low, but I also don't really care about the rank. I guess I've always seen these "style" rank things as a way for people who want a particularly high-effort high-skill gameplay to do that, while not punishing people who want more, well, fun strategies.
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Apr 22, 2024 10:16
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All the Final Fantasies should get sequels and they should all star Jack and he should punch all the bad guys and fist bump his friends.
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Apr 22, 2024 11:35
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Paying2Lurk posted:All the Final Fantasies should get sequels and they should all star Jack and he should punch all the bad guys and fist bump his friends. 
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Apr 22, 2024 12:01
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Ranking systems rule and it’s good to encourage your players to actually get good at the game and improve with its mechanics in the most engaging way possible. Remembering their Sekiro posts though it seems like Cleretic actively seeks out the most boring way possible to play every video game. RevolverDivider fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Apr 22, 2024 |
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Apr 22, 2024 12:06
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Cleretic posted:If you read back, you'll realize that the context we're talking about wasn't 'scraping by', it was 'this strategy against this boss works perfectly but gives you a bad rank'. it’s so the game can be relatively easy to get into and even complete but has huge potential for mastery that you’re encouraged and rewarded for engaging with in an easy to understand way. the devs aren’t on a mission to insult you specifically Augus fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Apr 22, 2024 |
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Apr 22, 2024 12:16
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Yeah but they should be
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Apr 22, 2024 12:23
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FF10 should get a prequel set during or before the Bevelle/Zanarkand war so you can explore Spira at its absolute peak before things went to poo poo.
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Apr 22, 2024 12:24
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