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The game basically being EO3.5 internally made a lot of info on it much easier to dig up and extract compared to the later 3DS games where they overhauled a lot. A little magic from Citra and Cheat Engine was able to let me dig up a lot to help with the LP. 4's certainly an interesting title. Not one of my personal favorites, the flaws the game has is a bigger deal for me, though I do like some of the design decisions it made. Namely how SP is less restrictive due to how skills scale, compared to other EO titles in general where several classes can struggle to basically function until they get enough SP to start working. Omobono posted:... Gathering skills are just a 10% roll per party member to force the rare drop from that point. There's technically a reason to make actual gathering teams, but gathering is far more effortless compared to previous games that it's not something a lot of people really bother with. 4's incarnation of the gathering system is probably the one I like the most. The DS era forces you to spend precious SP in gathering skills just to use them in the first place, and while later games still let you gather without the skills, getting uncommons and rares is like pulling teeth unless you invest in those gathering skills. Also gently caress 5's gathering system, probably the worst incarnation of the "modern" gathering system. Incidentally the game is kind here with the ore mission and will rig that point to cough up the ore on the last gather if you weren't lucky enough to get the ore on the first 2 gathering attempts.
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Nov 14, 2021 11:53
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| # ¿ May 20, 2024 06:31 |
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4's shop system is easily my least favorite in the series and one of the big issues I have with 4. I wasn't happy to see that return for 5 and N. Also I'm surprised at how many powerful tools 4 just hands you right off the bat. +5 accessories you had to wait until S4 in EO3 to get and were stuck with +3s beforehand. ATK and ELM forges as your starting forges seems rather off since those have more power than STR and TEC forges once you're out of the earlygame due to how the game's damage calculations work. Also fun fact this is the first time in the series the game ever told you about Accumulative Resistance. You were playing 3 despite the system being introduced in that game? Yeah get screwed and wonder why your disables are no longer working in the big fights. Burst is a pretty interesting meter mechanic. It's the first time the series used shared meter mechanics and it changes up the dynamic of how you use meter skills greatly. Like Immortal in EO3 (Full heal to the entire party) requires 3 people to cast, and anymore would... kind of make it pretty bad considering the competition for Limit skills in that game. But in 4 where anyone can cast it and only 1 person needs too, and back to back meter skill casts are possible? Yeah that equivalent skill would be broken as hell with a 3 meter cost. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing more games with a shared meter system instead of an individual one since it changes how you look at the meter. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 03:48
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CrystalGemTormalin posted:I hope this actually gets finished, unlike the the tales for Ashley & Cason, and Judith. Can you please not go around randomly necromancing or bumping inactive threads? Also that is really rude to say to someone.
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Nov 27, 2021 12:14
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mastersord posted:I do have a question regarding the mechanics. So restoratives are limited to rare drops and some of them are only available late game. So could you take a build route of passive TP regeneration or TP drain to keep your party topped off? It should be noted that EO never goes the Megaelixir route of having exclusive 1 time consumables. It can hand you stronger consumables earlier than you can buy them, but you'll always be able to get more later on, and such stronger consumables are never needed to win in the current situation. Crafty thinking and strategizing can get you out of most jams. That being said yeah TP is the main mechanic and the main resource to manage. Basic attacks are really terrible so it's really your TP pool that determines how far you can go in a timely manner. You need to use your skills to clear out encounters, or they will take too long and subsequently destroy you because you absolutely do not want enemies living long enough to damage your party significantly. The more enemies wear you down, the shorter your stay in the dungeon will be. Minimizing that is the key to making it through these games. The specifics vary from game to game though, as each game tends to be balanced differently and has different metas develop. A lot of classes are fairly self-sufficient with TP in this one with the right builds, or TP isn't that big of an issue for them. Though this is mainly due to some design decisions regarding TP restoratives in EO4. Compared with the previous game EO3, where classes can burn through TP so fast, but paradoxically there's so many ways to counteract that. Like there's a skill that you can cast on 1 row to completely nullify TP costs for a turn. You can spam cast this. Predictably it became a very popular cheese strategy. And that TP restoratives are ridiculously easy to farm to to the point where if you take these measures, TP costs are a complete non-issue for the most part.
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Dec 19, 2021 22:26
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Oh wait I forgot this LP already went over the Amrita situation. Yeah the other reason Amrita use isn't really big here (some players even went through the game without using a single one) is because restocking them is a huge loving pain in the rear end and I hate the absolute double nerf they gave them in this game. They restore way less than they did in EO3 from 50/100/All to 30/60/100. And where Amritas only needed 1 material per use to restock in EO3, EO4 for whatever godforsaken reason, increased it to 3 per Amrita. That overkill nerf essentially deleted that series of items from the game to some players, myself included. "Why not just suck it up and grind out the materials?" While the game made it much easier to gather from points normally, to the point where gathering parties aren't necessary at all in this game, it nerfed being able to mass gather stuff like in the DS era, which is just simply no longer possible. Item points can only be gathered from a set number of times per day. It cannot be expanded beyond the 2-4 limit, no exceptions. (Where in EO3 this limit was higher and could be busted open thanks to the Double Crop skill which refills gathering attempts.) Grinding out a huge backroom stock of items is far more time consuming in EO4 to the point where most players just didn't bother. They walked back on nerfs... slightly and eventually at least. I don't think any incarnation of the Amrita needs anymore than 1 material per restock at the very least in later games. Could be misremembering on that front. Not a design decision I was a fan of, fortunately there are ways to be fairly self-sustaining with TP in EO4, which is what players opted to do instead. Also class TP economy was just way better compared to EO3's classes so EO4 classes didn't run dry in a few casts. Usually. There's no such thing as TP drain in this series though, just skills that can restore TP under the right circumstances which is what tended to be invested in. Though usually in other games such skills aren't quite as popular cause you can just pop an Amrita and be on your way, but it vastly depends from game to game. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 05:46
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The RNG for the box event is rolled for the moment you open the box, so if you're desperate for Amritas (or didn't appreciate the sole thank you note) you can reset and try again. ...On hardware. On Citra the RNG is hosed because its seeds are static for some reason. Not sure what settings you have to muck around with to fix that. Ah, imbuables. Nexus basically shoved them back into the spotlight with imbue skills giving a damage boost, and with weaknesses being standardized as at least 150% non-diminishing damage, an imbue could make an imbuable skill super strong. Not really a tactic in this game, though it is a possible option. Weaknesses start out at 125% generally, and even then the amount of strong imbuable skills isn't that much. Can be something to keep in mind, but as Rea said, conditional fetching is really the more popular use for them. Ah Full Retreat. A very handy backup plan. Yeah the escape rates in 4 are the loving pits, so it can be used as a great way to get out of a bad situation. There is the downside of being sent back to the entrance after use, but chances are if the situation got bad enough to force a usage of that instead of taking chances with the escape rates, you were heading back to town anyways so it's not that much of a downside. If anything the real caveat would probably be the 3 meter cost, as you aren't guaranteed to have that ready if a situation goes really bad.
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Dec 28, 2021 01:50
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If you're wondering no, you can't actually kill the Bloodbear on your first go like with Narmer in EO3. This can easily be seen on NG+ where the thing's HP just refuses to drop below 50%. Namely cause well, there's that scripted event where it goes down the stairs. Skipping that would require editing quite a few files to account for that possibility, where in EO3 everything involving Narmer only involves 1 floor and skipping 1 event and all that's contained in 1 little file. Through the Scorching Heat is a really good remix of Crest of a Violent Wave from EO3. Certainly makes a hell of an impression on the player when this plays for a miniboss. Though I prefer the EO3 version myself. Also yeah Nightseeker damage is just hosed. I have no idea why their class skill sets their damage so loving sky high. You could knock it down several places, maybe even end off their final class skill at double damage and they'd still be one of the strongest classes in the game! Omobono posted:Ah, Refresh waltz and Freedom waltz. One issue with the first thing that some people will find out the hard way. The check for a game over occurs constantly before any other check in the game. As a result, Refresh Waltz cannot save the party from a game over if an AOE Petrification gets thrown out and lands even if that's in effect. A bit of correction I will put here is that the EO3 LP was wrong in how Protect Order works. It's actually just TEC-based healing applied as a buff, not a direct multiplier to the TEC stat and actually follows the healing formula. It's just so many people used MP as their healer, and Monks automatically reach the 3 * TEC threshold in their healing because their TEC stat is so high that people just automatically assumed Protect Order worked as tripled TEC as healing * Form Qi. Slap that onto a different class, and you'll find that the healing is far less impressive. Though Prince/ss's won't reach triple healing without some help, their healing with Protect Order is still fairly respectable otherwise. My other point is that Regen Waltz itself actually scales better than Protect Order since it has a stronger starting point at level 1, though both of them reach the same maximum healing. That being said yeah the heals will never reach Protect Order's absurd levels of quadrupled TEC as healing. The Dancer's TEC just isn't as impressive as a Monk's, and well, no Form Qi for that huge healing bonus. Depending on your playstyle you can actually run into a lot of Pookas if you scour the maps a lot or take things a bit slow because unlike Pasarans, the RNG isn't quite as dependent there since it's based on a step count range. Though I would really not recommend farming out books because it'll take 50 to max out one character and you'll need less than 250 Pooka kills to max out the party (assuming you get all the one-off books, and don't use any books on party members you are going to dump.) quote:Head binds halve an entity's TEC, which provides three main benefits: makes disables easier to inflict, reduces accuracy, and heavily reduces defense against TEC-based attacks. This had to have been an oversight because just raw halving the TEC stats had so many knock on effects after EO3 started overbuffing TEC. And yes, head binds work as an infliction debuff in EO3 and 4, though if your main inflictor already has more than 22 ailment score than their target, this won't help them. Not only that, this affects TEC-based healing, which won't affect too many cases since most TEC-based heals use the head, but irritatingly it will severely reduce the effectiveness of the Prince/ss's Protect Order and the Dancer's Regen Waltz due to how the healing formula works in EO3 and 4. EOU proceeded to fix this by making it so that head binds only affect the parts of TEC that are actually used in damage formulae. And then after the INT/WIS split in EO5, head binds just halve INT damage. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 20:27
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because you could imagine your dancer wiggling out of the bind before resuming his dance.
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In the Valley Spring there's like a mini puzzle where you have to realize at this point that shortcuts have their walls marked, as there's one at the beginning where one side is marked and the other isn't, and you have to figure out which wall has the shortcut by looking around the dungeon. Which is why there's that weird dud shortcut that doesn't really go anywhere, to clue the player in about the mechanic at that point. Would be absolutely dreadful to go through the game without realizing shortcuts existed.  Oh boy, Landsknechts. They can be a good safe vanilla unit to slot in, like the 1 and 2 Landys or the Gladiators from 3. Hell Swift Stab is essentially the Blade Rave analogue from EO3, can't go wrong with that. But if you take the (admittedly small) effort to invest in links, hoo boy you're going to have fun times. A properly set up Link party can just deal so much damage, more than an Imperial Drive even! That being said Links are so loving weird mechanical wise. In technical terms they're like a summon because once that link comes out, there's no stopping it, not even the Landsknecht's death. I find Weapon Parry to be funny purely because it just shows how hosed armor is in these games. Using up a weapon on that equipment slot would provide way more defense than armor ever could, it's silly. Ah diminishing returns, turns out that no, that wasn't a mechanic 2U introduced. It was actually introduced in 4. Those who were familiar with the absolutely buff centric meta of EO3 can easily see why they took steps to counter that hard in 4, what with Berserker Vows being everywhere. That being said it took a few tries to nerf that properly, because for most casual players, chances are you didn't notice in 4 and U, as the effects were just kind of too small. 2U went in the complete opposite extreme, and then 5 finally settled on the additive system. Now if you're taking the game a lot more seriously, or are trying to math out challenge runs (EO4 is a rather popular game for that sort of thing), you'll notice quite quickly how draconic this system actually is, as unlike in U and 2U, nearly everything that affects damage is tagged by it, even things you wouldn't think would be affected (The Nightseeker's Shadow Bite is one example), which can get pretty annoying to work with.
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Feb 17, 2022 02:08
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rbakervv posted:About Landsknechts, do the multi-target attacks (Spiral Slice, Swift Stab) trigger the class skill on all targets hit? If it does, that seems like it could make those skills more useful. Yes, every target smacked will be tagged with the class skill. Though generally when it comes to AOEing down enemies, you don't really need the damage boost. Chances are they'll be 1 or 2 hits away from death with how random encounters tend to be balanced in this series. Not that Swift Stab isn't useful on a non-Linker mind you, it's one of their best damage skills. Basically a more accurate Blade Rave because Landsknechts have an actual accuracy stat and Gladiators don't. It's just that Linkers would prefer to spend their SP towards making their Links better.
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Feb 17, 2022 12:55
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Another way to get past the Jig Lizard's evasion are Burst skills, they have perfect accuracy and the game tells you this later. Very important tidbit to know because any party member having access to a surefire guaranteed attack can and will save your bacon in some sticky situations. That enemy is definitely your soft introduction to the concept of evasion and how to deal with it as it's only active for 1 turn before breaking, and there's multiple ways to get past a given obstacle if you think about your tools. Which is important for a game like this. Especially since the game will throw you into the deep end on that front soon. And another example of multiple tools to get past the obstacle is in that boss writeup. Dealing damage is one way to deal with Delay Charge, but also disables can completely save you if your damage output is lacking. Or toss in a burst skill for some extra bit of damage to cross that threshold. Lots of ways in these games to get past a potential brick wall if you look around. Generally. There are some unfortunate exceptions, especially in the older titles. It is pretty interesting to see how the series got more advanced at crafting enemies and formations because 3 started the trend more, though not to the extent 4 does it. And 1 and 2 generally has a bunch of unnotables with a few notorious enemies here and there within a stratum. Harper, Shelly, Merula
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Mar 1, 2022 03:10
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Hardest is easily Amalgolem hands down. Definitely one of the most involved first stratum bosses in the series, with a lot you have to juggle. It really asks you to analyze what your own party is capable of doing, and to capitalize on it properly, as there are multiple ways of tackling this battle, but the strategies available will very much depend on your party. Narmer isn't too bad if you know how to deal with him, but he's more of a newbie check. Most bosses in general can be shut down with proper preparation, but this especially rings true for Narmer. He has a few surprises that can catch newbies off guard and can cause them to struggle, what with the Marsh Dive mechanic and the fact that you are probably screwed if you didn't bring a tent and your party isn't built optimally to tear him down. But if you are prepared, he doesn't really do all that much in the actual battles compared to the other first bosses. What with EO1 and 2 Fenrir and Chimaera being able to maul you pretty hard through sheer damage while Narmer can't really do much of the same. (Note that this doesn't really apply to Wicked Silurus in Nexus, as there are some vital mechanic changes + weirdass jank that flip the fight on its head.) EO1 and 2's first bosses are more about management of external factors on top of being able to deal with the big guy. Fenrir just hits really hard, but the Skoll swarms can make things hair pulling if your party's too slow to take down Fenrir. Chimaera is basically about keeping the Slaveimps at bay, as once one enters the battle, the clock is ticking as they can heal it and boost Chimaera's damage, when it already hits pretty hard. Of the 2 I'd say Chimaera is harder, as Fenrir is a lot easier to burst down if you have an Alchemist, and Chimaera's moveset is a lot more devastating, where Fenrir either uses a row attack, or uses a regular attack. Probably one of the tougher first bosses if you don't resort to the utter cheese 2 has. Berserker King himself isn't that bad, as long as you solve the puzzle and don't try to fight him face first. It won't end well, it just won't. The Delay Charge mechanic has multiple ways to deal with it, and by this point you should be very prepared for it since the forced Bloodbear fight was a small preview of what you'll really be facing later. If you're missing out on damage, you can use Burst skills to squeeze out more from the party. Or alternatively, disable him during that time. Even if your damage sucks, Berserker King can't do a drat thing to you if he's arm bound. EOU Fenrir is a glorified tutorial for 1 very overpowered mechanic, and 1 you probably won't use as much if your navigation skills are good. It's probably the biggest joke boss of the series, outside of Demi-Fafnir from 2U in Classic. 2U Chimaera isn't too rough if you know what you're doing, though it can run a bit long if your party's underpowered. Even if you don't bother sniping the bats, they aren't as huge threats like the Slaveimps were. Blossombeast is basically a boss fight placed super early before your party can really develop their skills. Not really much to say about it, other than yeah it's not exactly challenging, just runs a bit long because your party can't really do much at that point.
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Mar 4, 2022 05:18
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Nightseekers are just super nuts. I'm sure you could nerf that class skill to max out at 2x damage and they'd still tear the game into shreds. Venom Throw's internal data threw me back when it got unearthed. Like sure, it just straight up has the best infliction, and several bosses and FOEs are real weak to Poison. Okay. Curse Throw isn't a "we need an ailment on this thing" like Nexus gave it. It's just straight up bad in this game. Venom Throw has that niche in 4.
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Apr 7, 2022 00:25
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Lotta EO3 throwback enemies in this land, huh? Great Lynxes are way less scary than their EO3 counterparts, who were practically placed at the beginning of the game and could one shot your fledgling guild members much to the horror of many starting players. Here, they exist. That's all that can really be said about them. The Night Shard gather point is also rigged to give out 1 guaranteed drop if you don't have it by the end. Weak Shield is utterly ridiculous and it absolutely deserved the nerfs it got in 2U. Sure the whole "but taking my party below 50% HP sounds like a hassle" is a thing. Except there's one very easy solution for that. Fly into a tornado. That's it. That'll send everyone to 1 HP instantly, which will prep any Weak Shield strats. Though Tornados do have a chance of killing someone, so have some Nectars on hand if that happens. The whole "redirection considers the redirector to be in the front row" aspect was a correction to a hilarious oversight from 3, where you could just place the residential tank class in the back row to completely benefit from an additional 50% damage reduction on top of redirection. Especially since sad tank class was incredibly hard to kill in the first place even without exploiting that. Needless to say it's understandable why 4 immediately got rid of that exploit. Also Prevent Order in 3 was bugged to be used up on any infliction attempt, even if said attempt would fail. Knight's Boon was fixed to only be used up on actual inflictions, which is a huge buff to an already amazing skill. Shame Refresh Waltz exists now, which basically kinda invalidates Knight's Boon, but the option is there if you need it. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 07:12 on May 9, 2022 |
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May 9, 2022 04:56
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Ah, Snipers. Fun class but their master tree is a big oof. At least Squall Volley is good but it's a shame. High Caution might seem like overkill in a game where blindsides are ridiculously uncommon, but it works on event blindsides! And some of those formations can be nasty as hell! Chase Bind is very unfortunate. That was the result of a bug not causing the damage to scale. It's supposed to go up to 145%... which isn't great but at least it's something more than the poor 100% it's stuck with. Silver Arrow has a couple of things that make it better than an Almighty attack. While it ignores the Stab damage multipliers, it's still considered Stab damage, so it benefits from attack buffs and defense debuffs, which Almighty damage typically doesn't outside of some exceptions. I have no idea what the hell is up with Impact Arrow. Like uh. What the hell is this skill? Did they forget to give it Imperial tier damage or something?? Why is this a Master skill??? Oh Divine Shot. At least people can understand what this skill was going for, even if the penalties outweigh the rewards. This thing is just anti fun because most of the time, Squall Volley spam is just better. I did a 5 Sniper run once, where you'd think it's be easier to set up for Divine Shot. Nope, it's even worse in that kind of run! The main problem is that only 1 person can use it, and that everyone spamming Squall Volley is actually objectively more damage.
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Jun 19, 2022 03:58
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Ah, sheep farming. I remember when that was a common piece of advice that spread like wildfire back in the day.
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Nov 24, 2022 07:33
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Links are weird in the Persona Qs. So the way Persona Q skills operate is that instead of using your equipped weapon as the base damage, they use the skill's base damage, and both Persona Qs share the damage formula with EO3 and 4. (This also means weapons do jack poo poo in the Persona Qs other than increasing basic attack damage and All Out Attack damage.) All links in both games have a base damage of 40. Double Link increases this to 58, Triple Link to 68, Quadruple Link to 78, and Infinite Link to 88. There are passive skills that add to each follow up's damage, ala Link Mastery. Except these skills have far greater an effect. Where Link Mastery is just a 1.08x multiplier, the link boosting skills directly add onto the link's base damage. Resonance adds on +15 base damage. Golden Link adds on +20. Telepathic Bond adds on +25. Each time. Oh and thanks to some bizarre skill coding, you can also boost the damage of links even further. While the initial hit counts as strength damage, follow ups are coded as magic damage. This normally has no effect, as follow ups copy the base hit. Unless the target has a magic bind. If that's the case, watch your link damage skyrocket to the moon!
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Aug 6, 2023 09:20
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| # ¿ May 20, 2024 06:31 |
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It's kinda neat how Kibagami's sort of more of a "PVP"-esque fight than the previous rival fights in the series. Since it's explicitly those skills in action instead of branching off that with their own variety of skills with the previous guild fights.
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Mar 4, 2024 03:22
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