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Sydney Bottocks posted:Ah, the good old "just turn your brain off" defense The opposite, you should watch what the movie is saying, rather than what you think the director or writer is saying. For example, if a character says they are an expert, but then acts incompetently or recklessly, then that's what they are. You as the viewer should not be confused by this. You shouldn't be going "well, they said they were an expert, how could they act this way? It doesn't make any sense." If you are of the opinion that a professional scientist wouldn't act a particular way, it's not that the movie is "wrong" it's showing that the character is acting in that way.
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Nov 27, 2021 04:35
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It can be that the director/writer are making a comment on the character, or it could also be that the people making the film have no loving idea about how something works: 
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Nov 27, 2021 04:41
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A not retarded person posted:"We all thought it was a terrific script. And we made it. You can’t win all the time. I’ve never had one regret on any movie I’ve ever made. Nothing. I learned very early on to be your own critic. The only thing you should really have an opinion on is what you just did. Walk away. Make sure you’re happy. And don’t look back. That’s me.” Yes, I say this all the time! Criticizing yourself means never analyzing the things you have done before! gently caress that idiot I was yesterday, he knows nothing about me!
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Nov 27, 2021 04:42
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The whole point of Promethus is that the character's are all dumb and in way over their head. Human hubris is like the main theme of the movie. The deleted scene where you can tell what the engineer is saying really spells this out, as does the conversation Adam has earlier in the movie. It's totally acceptable if you find this grating or unplesant to watch, but it's not a sign of incompotent filmmaking on Scott's part.
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Nov 27, 2021 04:43
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Fsmhunk posted:The whole point of Promethus is that the character's are all dumb and in way over their head. Human hubris is like the main theme of the movie. The deleted scene where you can tell what the engineer is saying really spells this out, as does the conversation Adam has earlier in the movie. It's totally acceptable if you find this grating or unplesant to watch, but it's not a sign of incompotent filmmaking on Scott's part. I just finished Outriders, and it's funny how much that game's story shares with the hubris themes of Prometheus. Personally, I enjoyed Prometheus. Most of that came from Noomi Rapace loving killing it in that movie.
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Nov 27, 2021 04:47
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Bogus Adventure posted:It can be that the director/writer are making a comment on the character, or it could also be that the people making the film have no loving idea about how something works: Fun fact: That NCIS scene was the result of the writers getting annoyed at all the nitpicking they were getting back when their computer stuff was more realistic, so they decided to escalate into the most ridiculous bullshit they could come up with culminating in the two people one keyboard scene.
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Nov 27, 2021 04:54
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coolusername posted:Fun fact: That NCIS scene was the result of the writers getting annoyed at all the nitpicking they were getting back when their computer stuff was more realistic, so they decided to escalate into the most ridiculous bullshit they could come up with culminating in the two people one keyboard scene. Lmao, I love it
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Nov 27, 2021 04:56
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PeterCat posted:The opposite, you should watch what the movie is saying, rather than what you think the director or writer is saying. I mean, I get what you're saying, but let's not pretend that director-as-auteur and "authorial intent" are things that don't happen, or that directors and screenwriters don't put subtext (or explict messages) in their works. I mean, look at The Shining. There's an entire documentary devoted to all the weird poo poo people came up with when interpreting what they think Kubrick was trying to say in that movie. Granted, most of it is absolutely batshit, but Kubrick did poo poo for his own reasons, and very rarely just put things out on the screen blatantly for the audience to go "oh, I get it now". Ridley Scott has done similar things, both with the original Alien and with Blade Runner. He's not Kubrick, but he's not Michael Bay, either. Also I kind of disagree with your statement "if a character says they are an expert, but then acts incompetently or recklessly, then that's what they are". The movie doesn't just automatically get a pass when the highly competent space explorer/scientist does dumb poo poo like take off their helmet on an unknown alien planet or whatever. The movie has to earn that level trust from the viewer, that they'll go along with a character presented as intelligent or professional doing something out of character, by establishing that while this person may be regarded as a highly competent etc. etc., they are in fact a blithering idiot who got promoted above their competency level, or completely out of their depth in a given situation, or that they're being pressured by their higher ups. Stuff like that. It's even forgivable if the script shows that the character just made a fatal mistake because they forgot themselves in the heat of the moment or whatever, but only if they face immediate consequences directly afterwards. The director/screenwriter don't get to say "this person's an expert in their field" and then have them do everything wrong in their field, and expect us to just blithely go "oh well, that's just what they did, I guess  ". That's just lazy scriptwriting.
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Nov 27, 2021 05:04
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It's true to life though. Let's use a real world example. IDK if you've heard the story of LTC Arthur "Bud" Holland of the US Air Force. He was an experienced and talented B-52 pilot how had a history of pushing the limits, ignoring the rules, and eventually killed himself and his crew when he crashed a B-52 while trying to perform a barrel roll. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Fairchild_Air_Force_Base_B-52_crash His case is the logical endpoint of a character like Maverick from Top Gun. Maverick was a genius behind the stick, but thinks he's special and above the rules and the logical endpoint of his career is something like what happened to LTC Holland. No on can say that the real or fictional pilots are not experts, or that they were inexperienced, or under pressure from above, but their personalities are ones of taking risks beyond common sense or even rules or regulations. Now take the character of Dr. Charlie Holloway. He is apparently an archeologist of some skill and he and Noomi Rapace's character have made a study of ancient artifacts that leads them to the belief that aliens visited Earth and left a map to the stars, which ends up being correct. He is also shown to be arrogant and brash, thinks the rules do not apply to him, and takes his helmet off in an alien environment, which is not a smart thing to do but does not seem to be out of character for him. The other characters in the movie that people don't like the actions of are a geologist who has no problem taking a multi-year mission to the unknown for the money, and a biologist who dies in a manner similar to the Crocodile Hunter. None of this is bad writing.
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Nov 27, 2021 05:50
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Reality is unrealistic. But yeah, it's like I've said about the Star Wars prequels- even being charitable with how Anakin's relationships as shown are supposed to be dysfunctional, that he and Padme are basically two emotionally immature people in puppy love and/or blowing off the incredible amount of stress they're under by loving- has trouble because Hollywood audiences have spent literally a century being presented with even more dysfunctional relationships (see romantic subplots and basically any romcom) as perfectly normal and even ideal. 'Turn off your brain' is a thing mostly because audiences are so used to being treated as rock stupid that so much media is outright made expecting them to be. And it doesn't have to be this way! Audiences can pick up on and respond to the movie trying to have a dialogue with them, even if they don't immediately understand every little thing! All the crazy theories, ambiguity and symbolism of the Shining are things that people like about it!
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Nov 27, 2021 06:09
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To be fair, most audiences are stupid as rocks. People took Starship Troopers at face value despite it being a) directed by Paul Verhoeven, and b) dressing the troopers like Nazis.
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Nov 27, 2021 06:36
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Bogus Adventure posted:To be fair, most audiences are stupid as rocks. People took Starship Troopers at face value despite it being a) directed by Paul Verhoeven, and b) dressing the troopers like Nazis. Thing is that it works perfectly well as a stock action movie taken at face value, with the point being that the formula is already near indistinguishable from Nazi propaganda, let alone the original story.
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Nov 27, 2021 06:40
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Thing is that it works perfectly well as a stock action movie taken at face value, with the point being that the formula is already near indistinguishable from Nazi propaganda, let alone the original story. Sometimes you run into that, supposedly Coppola was trying to make LTC Kilgore look insane and murderous in Apocalypse Now and the helicopter assault still comes off as the coolest set piece in the movie and the dude basically became a model for future Air Cavalrymen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohcvIHNbOHc&t=15s
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Nov 27, 2021 06:47
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Bogus Adventure posted:To be fair, most audiences are stupid as rocks. People took Starship Troopers at face value despite it being a) directed by Paul Verhoeven, and b) dressing the troopers like Nazis. yeah but also you have to be a genius like Verhoeven to make directing flat acting performances on purpose as a thing
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Nov 27, 2021 08:05
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I also saw Starship Troopers when I was like 12 because "hey cool dumb space movie", well before I had the gray matter to appreciate satire.
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Nov 27, 2021 08:42
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Sydney Bottocks posted:The facehugger busted thru Kane's helmet's faceshield like it was made of wet paper so that doesn't really even apply here anyways In Prometheus they also scanned the air, and the computer said it was fine. that's why the dude took his helmet off and was fine.
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Nov 27, 2021 10:06
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coolusername posted:Fun fact: That NCIS scene was the result of the writers getting annoyed at all the nitpicking they were getting back when their computer stuff was more realistic, so they decided to escalate into the most ridiculous bullshit they could come up with culminating in the two people one keyboard scene. That rules. Like, obviously these guys know how a keyboard works, they're writers. The idea that they're so dumb they couldn't realise that you can't type with two people on the same keyboard is very silly.
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Nov 27, 2021 10:14
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Brother Tadger posted:Also, how does winning a duel prove you are innocent of rape? See if the man can beat the other dude using fancy swordplay then he's clearly such a sexy best the sex must have been consensual.
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Nov 27, 2021 13:55
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Poohs Packin posted:I also saw Starship Troopers when I was like 12 because "hey cool dumb space movie", well before I had the gray matter to appreciate satire. 
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Nov 27, 2021 17:18
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PeterCat posted:a biologist who dies in a manner similar to the Crocodile Hunter. LMAO
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Nov 27, 2021 17:38
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*A character operates against every human survival instinct, using their training to justify getting themselves into even more danger than the average layman* "Everyone makes mistakes guys this is good writing. Just like when God wrote the Croc Hunter out of season 2006!"
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Nov 27, 2021 17:40
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You guys act like youve been in space and know what its like lol you will never know
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Nov 27, 2021 17:53
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Poohs Packin posted:You guys act like youve been in space and know what its like lol you will never know It's going to be boring. Just like everything else we do. That's humanity's superpower.
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Nov 27, 2021 18:02
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Alien is maybe my favorite series but as much as I wanted to like Covenant, I just couldn't. Sometimes putting a Comedy Person in a Serious Movie results in a really cool dynamic without being overbearing or grating, but other times it results in something like Danny Mcbride not meshing at all, just not fitting into the whole thing. I liked reading about that awful, quippy Wedon-esque dialog writing. It's nice to see that it's a recognized pattern or style. And I hate everything about it. But it's for the kids. I'm at peace with the fact that I've aged out of the target demographic for 80% of products now at 41 and understand that the world will keep moving on without me. That also means teens and such tend to really like those snappy dialog exchanges. Being older, I instead prefer a little thing I call, heh, character development . God it's so arduous being intellectually superior and also handsome and cool
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Nov 27, 2021 18:45
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Floodixor posted:Alien is maybe my favorite series but as much as I wanted to like Covenant, I just couldn't. Please pull forward to collect your order
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Nov 27, 2021 23:21
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I like cute girl flexin her guns. Thats my review of Ridley scotts career
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Nov 27, 2021 23:25
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sure okay posted:*A character operates against every human survival instinct, using their training to justify getting themselves into even more danger than the average layman* Speaking of bad writing, I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
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Nov 27, 2021 23:42
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Floodixor posted:Alien is maybe my favorite series but as much as I wanted to like Covenant, I just couldn't. If you are 40, then know that you are exactly in the middle of the age cohort this poo poo is made for. None of the pop culture garbage is made for kids, that's just an excuse as to why it's allowed to be irredeemable trash.
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Nov 28, 2021 00:24
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steinrokkan posted:If you are 40, then know that you are exactly in the middle of the age cohort this poo poo is made for. None of the pop culture garbage is made for kids, that's just an excuse as to why it's allowed to be irredeemable trash. Exactly. It’s why we are seeing this 90s/early 00s nostalgia wave of IP. They remade Space Jam for man-children, not actual children
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Nov 28, 2021 01:42
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I really like the Phantom Menace, it's a cool series of slapstick physical comedy setpieces that's broken up by almost 30-45 minutes of the most boringest stuff ever on tattooine. However, it's still a fun space adventure romp and if you step off of your Hollywood high horse you'd see that it's a kickass movie
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Nov 28, 2021 02:32
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Buschmaki posted:I really like the Phantom Menace, it's a cool series of slapstick physical comedy setpieces that's broken up by almost 30-45 minutes of the most boringest stuff ever on tattooine. However, it's still a fun space adventure romp and if you step off of your Hollywood high horse you'd see that it's a kickass movie Jar Jar Binks was ill-conceived and if he had not been in the movie, or at least had not had that voice and accent, TPM would not have the reputation it does. Everything else was pretty decent, the sound design of the movie was amazing. I mean, I went and saw it multiple times for the spectacle alone.
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Nov 28, 2021 03:09
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PeterCat posted:Jar Jar Binks was ill-conceived and if he had not been in the movie, or at least had not had that voice and accent, TPM would not have the reputation it does. *In extremely offensive asian accent done by a white voice actor* "Huuuuuuurrrrrh process dem....." drat nute gunray owns
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Nov 28, 2021 03:11
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Buschmaki posted:*In extremely offensive asian accent done by a white voice actor* "Huuuuuuurrrrrh process dem....." drat nute gunray owns 
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Nov 28, 2021 03:43
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Buschmaki posted:*In extremely offensive asian accent done by a white voice actor* "Huuuuuuurrrrrh process dem....." drat nute gunray owns Seal off the thread!
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Nov 28, 2021 03:48
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i leave the forums for ONE hour while I'm finishing up work and I come back to people saying ep 1 isn't a crock of poo poo wtf
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Nov 28, 2021 03:56
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I never realized till now that Nute Gunray is a Martian from Spaced Invaders. 
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Nov 28, 2021 04:01
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PeterCat posted:I never realized till now that Nute Gunray is a Martian from Spaced Invaders. I loving love Spaced Invaders. It's such a great movie.
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Nov 28, 2021 04:38
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The character development in it, from the nerdy gas station attendant turning into a powerful cyber genius enthralled to the alien commander's whim is 
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Nov 28, 2021 04:39
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I was like 12 years old when things weren't going well at home but I was alone with the TV for NYE and they were going to play EP1 which I hadn't seen in theatres. My thinking was "Life is a crock of shine but I liked the older Star Wars so for the next two hours I'll get to be happy seeing a classic before it's time". Even 12 year old me knew that it was not a well-made film. Won't forgive them for this.
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Nov 28, 2021 13:57
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Man what is wrong with SA we have people being like "dumb thing is for kids and if they're happy I'm happy" rather than insisting they are traumatised an IP didn't cater to their wants. We'll never have hilarious meltdowns it at this rate.
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Nov 28, 2021 14:02
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