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Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
Last time I posted in TRP I got shot down, if I recall, for the crime of (checks notes) living in Qatar. I've recently returned to the UK after 21 years living in Doha - AMA.

Except about corruption. I don't know anything about that.

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Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
In order,

jeebus bob posted:

What's the best spot for cruising?


Weaponized Cum posted:

How many escorts did you gently caress

Seems to be essentially the same question. Cruising? Dunno. I had a couple of colleagues sacked (over the twenty years) for being gay. They were given a couple of weeks' notice to leave the country and paid off something like six months' salary. Cruise around the malls on a Friday night if you want a local twink, or hit the beach hotels, I guess, IDK, I'm nearly fifty and was married for all the years I was there. But cool Gotcha!s about how prostitution and homosexuality both exist, I guess.


L.H.O.O.Q. posted:

How did you get your passport back in order to leave?


Eau de MacGowan posted:

How many slaves can i get for a tenner

Again, maybe the same question. I always had my passport, but then I'm a white male. My family (including kids) could come and go without me, without my say-so, but then Qatar has always been more liberal than Saudi, or Bahrain. There was a big problem with unscrupulous employment agencies operating out of Nepal and Pakistan, mainly, selling young men a dream of a fortune that they could send home to their families - dreams that turned out to be just that. This is less of a problem in the country now, but I'm sure it's still there.

There's a better question to be asked of the Qataris about what they think of other nations, other nationalities. During my time in Doha, my school hired a very well qualified Chemistry teacher from Nepal, and that went to poo poo quite quickly. Many of the younger kids, the early teens, behaved terribly towards him because the Nepalese were, in their experience, the bottom end of that caste ladder - they were the construction workers, the cleaners. Not Diploma/A-Level/AP Chemistry teachers. He ended up doing ten days in chokey while the police investigated (spurious) allegations that he'd insulted some students. He was departed after that. Not a proud moment for my school


Gigi Galli posted:

You think it’s gonna be a disaster or…?

A cautious "No". Remember the run-up to Russia 2018 when everyone was predicting riots, clashes, violence? Pundits are more often right than wrong, and Qatar has a lot riding on this. There will be things happening in 2022 that Qatar have never done before - I think the drinking will be contained in large Fan Zones, for example, but as someone said, this thread or another, I don't know how prepared the authorities are for how entrenched, how central, alcohol is to football, for much of the world.

But remember, that for much of the world, it isn't. For the Arabic world, and for much of Africa, alcohol doesn't have an instant association with beer. It's a world cup - the cultural approach to football isn't the same around the world. (Of course.)

Transport is going to be tricky. Hotels are going to be full. Roads might be crammed. But schools will be out, and I think there will be a spike of Air B'n'Bs. Cruise-liners docked off the port? Who knows.


Total Meatlove posted:

Which stadium most looks like a giant vagina?

A competition of one, sadly, but the winner's a doozy.



The stadia are nice, and pretty finished - the Club World Cup was held at the Education City stadium, and it went off fine. (I used to work at Education City.)

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sport/football/qatar-world-cup-stadiums-2022/

Al Bayt stadium looks like a traditional Arabic house of hair. Al Thumama stadium looks like a gahfiya, the cap that Arabic men wear under their head-dress.


Andoman posted:

Would you go back?

Yeah. I've got friends there, I can stay there for free, and walk to Education City. It was a good place to live, and we had a great 21 years there. Qatar is a young country and has some growing pains, but it has experienced huge developments over the last couple of decades. We left, with perfect timing, just the year before the WC. So it goes.

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug


I could say I was doing my bit to help a developing country - I taught siblings of the current Emir, and some very important people. And I enjoyed my time there. But I wouldn't have spent 20 years away from my friends and family for peanuts. I saw some great football teams - England, Barcelona, Liverpool - and other great sport. Qatar understands that the gas money won't last forever and is trying to branch out - sport, education, art.

Tsaedje posted:

You'll never recover from this

I'll leave the typo in for my shame. Try this -

quote:

football doesn't have an instant association with beer

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug

sticksy posted:

I'll hang up and listen, thanks

Check your PMs.

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
I mean,

Poonior Toilett posted:

INSERT COUNTRY HERE liberal as hell, except for the massive racisms that got a guy arrested and deported for no reason

kinda works, too.

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug

the sex ghost posted:

As a semi-serious question:

I've slept on this, and I'm not sure I'm any closer to answering your question. I've got a few data points, but I don't feel confident enough to extrapolate them into a prediction for what's going to happen at something that's never happened before.

Back in January 2020 I took my family to meet friends for a low-key boozy brunch, and the hotel had been taken over by Liverpool fans, there for the club world cup, and it was all very good-natured and friendly. The competition went off without a hitch, no worries.





Things had clearly improved since 2011 when I wrote this about the Asian Cup Final between Japan and Australia - note my last line.

a younger Teach posted:

I was at the match last night, and most of the bits have been covered - great display from the Japanese keeper, Aus profligate in front of goal, and these two things coming together with two fluffed one on ones. The Japanese spent most of the game passing the ball round the midfield hoping that the Aus goal would move closer. (Lovely goal to win it, though.)

The main worry for me was the piss poor organisation. We had tickets, were sat 30mins before kick-off, and just got in by some accounts. The police closed the gate to all comers, even those with legitimate tickets, with about 20 mins to go. This led to an angry pissed-off mob outside. We were vaguely aware of this inside the stadium, as some friends of ours were locked out.

Worse than this was the fiasco outside after the match. The gates remained locked and closed as the 10,000 or so who didn't want to watch the awards ceremony left. We got to the gates and were simply told that we couldn't leave for safety reasons. It was all starting to get very heated - lots of families, lots of kids, and lots more people coming out to join us. It never developed into a crush, but it made me very nervous, and the lack of information was shocking.

(Turns out that the organisers had set up the huge firework display to be launched mainly from the car park that pedestrians would be walking through/past when leaving, and the police were keeping us in until the end of the display.)

Lots of very angry and pissed off people - good job there was no alcohol available in the stadium, maybe.

So which way is it going to go in 2022?

I think it'll be OK. The rate of development in Qatar is incredibly fast, and the government are very aware that everyone will be watching. I think there will probably be a softly-softly approach to fans, but I do worry about fans pushing past that cotton wool approach and hitting the hard surface underneath.

All organisations in Qatar have a strict hierarchy and there's a very jobsworth attitude, as people don't want to make a mistake, they don't want to act on their initiative in case they make an error and get poo poo-canned. There's very little scope for improvisation. The police will be the same - if one particular group of officers have been told to "keep fans in that section there", then they will do so.

I think that the location, the difficulties in getting there, the lack of hotel rooms, etc, might prevent boozy fans from reaching a critical mass. We'll see.

TLDL: dunno, be OK I guess?

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
Don't miss this in the replies.

https://twitter.com/ARKCFC/status/1510639466997850116

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug

Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:

Did they nail them to the wall?

Sad lol.

The closer and closer this WC gets, the more and more worried I am about the organisation, and other more and more saddened I am about Qatar's bid winning. I'm issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group ISIL. the Qatari bid. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
It's a good headline, but (thanks, Wikipedia!) in 2017 Qatar's population was 2.6million, with only 300,000 Qataris. The rest are ex-pats, and the biggest group of that number is south Asians - people from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka.

That's 2.3 million people working in Qatar as economic migrants. And I was one of them for twenty years.

The UK overall death rate is nearly 1% p.a, so 9.something deaths per 1000 people per year. There will be a lot of expats dying in Qatar. I was a teacher there for two decades and my school lost three teachers. That's not down to the world cup.

Yes, the working conditions for most expats are terrible, yes they're badly paid and treated as disposable. But it would be weird if there weren't any ex-pat deaths.

(Edit - I know that the ex-pat communities in Qatar don't map one to one with the populations at home - they're overwhelmingly male, for example) but you see what I mean.)

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug

vyelkin posted:

The UK death rate may be nearly 1% p.a., but if you account for the demographic that makes up migrant labourers (say, men in their 20s and 30s) it would be much, much lower. You can't generalize from death rates including 80-year-olds dying of cancer to say that 20-year-olds dropping dead after 14-hour days on desert construction sites is normal.

Sure, but then be fair - what's the UK annual death rate for construction workers? (I don't know. This might reflect worse on Qatar.)

Many of them are from the poorest parts of their home countries. They would have better health care in Qatar, many of them, than at home.

Just in the interests of balance. I think it's a mistake that Qatar has got the world cup.

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug

vyelkin posted:

In addition to the numbers ilmucche posted, DW and Le Monde have recent articles not making that exact comparison, but addressing claims like these, and they tend to find that the Qatari authorities are significantly overstating how natural or proportional the number of migrant worker deaths are.



Nobody disputes that the high-end numbers aren't literally 100% workers who died at a stadium construction site, but widespread reporting, NGO investigation, and academic study of the issues keeps on finding that a disproportionate amount of migrant workers are dying, and that even the high numbers might be underestimates because they don't include groups like Nepali workers who returned home and shortly thereafter died of kidney failure almost certainly related to their arduous work in the desert. I'm sorry but I really don't think your experience as a foreign teacher is comparable, nor do I think it's fair to assume the workers were already unhealthy (due to being poor) and would get better healthcare in Qatar than they would in their home countries, when these people dying in disproportionately high numbers were selected because of their health and fitness to ensure they would be efficient workers.

Lot of info there - will give it a proper read later, thank you. Didn't mean to compare my experience with other less fortunate migrant workers.

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug

fez_machine posted:

Why is there so little shade in all of the picture I've seen?



The closer you are to the equator the higher in the sky the sun is. Doha is almost on the Tropic of Cancer, and on June 21st, for a short time, your shadow almost disappears underneath you.





Edit - I know it's winter. But still. The sun is high.

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
My friend on the ground for the first match -

quote:

loving hell. They've arsed it up already. Imagine match day at Wembley x 5. That's Al Bidda Park for the fan zone. Capacity; 40,000. Queue to get in hundreds long. And at a standstill. 🧐

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug

Someone said that's the ghost of the dead migrant workers.

Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
QR5-8 from any one of the thousands of places in the city. That's a much better price.

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Teach
Mar 28, 2008


Pillbug
Has anyone suggested multiball yet?

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