|
Thematic tournaments do happen, though I generally don't find them very interesting. I suspect what happened today is that Carlsen hosed something up (maybe missed a5), because if his preparation showed this game happening he would not have played it. e: And there are definitely top level players who get wild with openings. Both Daniil Dubov and Richard Rapport are extremely creative.
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 02:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:08 |
|
|
I got the feeling that carlsen wanted to run nepo out of prep. And when nepo had more of this line prepared then carlsen was expecting he went for the draw.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 03:10
|
|
|
I'm learning so much about how my decision making fluctuates with chess. Like sometimes even when I analyse slowly I make big blunders. Like "Okay, so they have a protected Rook behind their Bishop. If this Bishop were to to move, the Rook will have a direct line of sight to my Queen. Also, that same Bishop can give a check. Anyway, I think I'll move my Knight...YO WHAT HOW DID I LOSE MY QUEEN??!!!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 04:25
|
|
|
jiggerypokery posted:What kind of puzzles? for now, whatever chess.com serves up. once i get a better idea of my weaknesses i'll focus on those
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 04:54
|
|
|
D34THROW posted:Okay, so question. Where does Chess.com get its puzzles from? It's quite visible that lichess gets them from direct games, but some of Chess.com's puzzles make no loving sense to me because they seem...impractical for real play. Pretty sure chess.com also uses computers to extract them from games. If you click analyze on a puzzle, I think it points you to the game where it came from.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 06:12
|
|
|
okay, i did five puzzles while typing out my thoughts -- https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1099616 my hunch is g4 here, and then either trade pawns or race white's f-pawn. but their pawn promotes with check and then i'm in trouble. so i feel like i have to take the pawn 1...gxf4 2. Kxf4 Kg2 3. Kg5 h4 is drawn but drawing is trivial. how do i *win* this? i feel like i need an extra move. AH! I can't promote with check on g1, but I can on h1. so my initial idea is probably good. 1... g4 2. hxg4 h4 3. f5 h3 4. f6 h2 5. f7 h1=Q+ or 2. h4 g3 and i have the extra move so it doesn't matter that white promotes with check, i can promote, move, and check first 2. f5 gxh3, promote with check, yeah, this is right. https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1448160 this one has more pieces lol c3 or d2 are both squares the knight can check from, but they're occupied by my stupid major pieces. i can sac either. what's Rb3+ look like? 1...Rxb3+ and white can go axb3 or Ka1 2. Ka1 Qc3+ 3. Nb2 Qxb2# 2. axb3 Nc3+ 3. Ka1 Qa2# cha-ching. https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1392266 first thing i see here is that i can sac the queen on f7 and pin the rook when it recaptures. 1. Qxf7+ Rxf7 2. Rxe8# what if the king moves instead? 1. Qxf7+ Kh8 2. Rxe7 maybe? if black takes with the rook Qg8#. If they take with the bishop, Qxg8#. If they take with the queen... no, this isn't it. it's still a queen sac, i see it. 1. Qxf7+ Kh8 2. Qxe8+ Rxe8 3. Rxe8#, booyah https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1202416 great, king and pawns. not good at these. this one actually seems pretty straightforward, push the f-pawn 2 squares and promote. if white's d-pawn is undefended (either with d6 or c5) just take it. what i have to worry about is white playing Kf7, Ke7, *then* pushing the d-pawn. can I race? 1...f5 2. Kf7 f4 3. Ke7 f3 4. d6 f2 5. d7 f1=Q 6. d8=Q and then we just have to skewer to grab the queen. Qf6+? trade queens, then Kd6 to get the opposition... this seems too complex, though i think it's winning. perhaps there is a mating opportunity after 6. d8=Q 6. d8=Q and my f1 queen is on a white square so i can't check e7 diagonally. has to be Qf6+. white has two legal moves, Kd7 and Ke8. 7. Kd7 Qd6+... i can't find a mate here without moving the king which i don't have the tempo to do. I think we trade queens on d8, i put the king on d6 and break the b-pawn through. Still feels like i'm missing something but i'll try it. okay, I was wrong. 1...f5 2. Kf7, i missed that I can block the pawns with Kd6 *before* they start moving and then my pawn still outruns the king. Oh wow my plan is actually losing. like i said, k+p endgames, yikes. at least i can just think about these and ostensibly figure it out. making a note to specifically learn the easy tablebase poo poo. https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1388488 well, we've got a queen-bishop battery that can check here, pretty straightforward. 1. Qa7+ Kc8 2. Be6+ and then whatever black does to block it 3. Qa8# woohoo! I probably won't bog down this thread with long posts like this going forward (especially during the world championship!) but i just wanted to share an example of kind of what i'm thinking as i solve puzzles (or don't) and how i'm trying to take it into my regular games.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 07:27
|
|
|
Those links don't let me play the puzzles through to confirm so I'm just going to have to risk looking like an idiot here... isn't Rc1 in the second puzzle just instant mate?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 09:13
|
|
|
oh yeah, i should have just posted little screenshots. once you click on it you'll see the other side make their first move (in this case it's 1. Bd3)
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 09:17
|
|
|
Spokes posted:oh yeah, i should have just posted little screenshots. once you click on it you'll see the other side make their first move (in this case it's 1. Bd3) Oh that makes sense, I do play on chess.com and should have remembered they usually show the opponent moving first. I guess it just doesn't work on mobile for some reason 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 09:29
|
|
|
What analysis engine does Chess.com use? Obviously Lichess uses Stockfish but I about poo poo myself earlier when I was fiddling with openings on Chess.com and did a Ruy Lopez, Morphy Defense. Typically after 4. Ba4 Nf6 I would castle kingside as white, and here's why I have my question. Chess.com gave 5. O-O as a 100% black victory, while Stockfish on Lichess is giving it 30% / 52% / 18%. As an aside, I really like how Lichess explains the tactics. Going a little further took me into a closed Ruy Lopez and then I scrolled down and saw this whole thing explaining 4 or 5 different next moves for white and the implications of each. This is kind of the stuff I need, and how Chess for Dummies resonated for me 15 years ago. That book is how I learned enough to understand open files, back rank mates, etc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 15:28
|
|
|
Spokes posted:oh yeah, i should have just posted little screenshots. once you click on it you'll see the other side make their first move (in this case it's 1. Bd3) Okay that makes sense. I was staring at the third, baffled on how black was supposed to win after 1...f5 2.Kg5.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
D34THROW posted:What analysis engine does Chess.com use? Obviously Lichess uses Stockfish but I about poo poo myself earlier when I was fiddling with openings on Chess.com and did a Ruy Lopez, Morphy Defense. Typically after 4. Ba4 Nf6 I would castle kingside as white, and here's why I have my question. Chess.com gave 5. O-O as a 100% black victory, while Stockfish on Lichess is giving it 30% / 52% / 18%. If you're talking about the opening explorer, that 100% comes from looking at games in its database, not an engine evaluation
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 15:43
|
|
|
If this game doesn't end soon—and white does have the ability to play on here if he has some creativity—Carlsen is starting to get into some slight time pressure. 34 minutes for 12 moves can get tight if he has to solve a couple of problems. Now Carlsen's knights are back on e8 and f8. This game is becoming as much as anything a test of Nepo's willingness/ability to push a slight advantage in an unfamiliar position.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 15:55
|
|
|
https://lichess.org/UUjZ8d5F/white#46 Kind of a fun little sequence, bishop pair vs two knights trying to pass a pawn. It was low elo bullet so they blundered a knight, but it reminded me that Bishop Pairs Are Good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
D34THROW posted:What analysis engine does Chess.com use? The default looks to be Stockfish:  There must be configuration differences or something because I've found that chess.com and lichess engines give slightly different evaluations for the same games.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2021 05:41
|
|
|
D34THROW posted:What analysis engine does Chess.com use? Obviously Lichess uses Stockfish but I about poo poo myself earlier when I was fiddling with openings on Chess.com and did a Ruy Lopez, Morphy Defense. Typically after 4. Ba4 Nf6 I would castle kingside as white, and here's why I have my question. Chess.com gave 5. O-O as a 100% black victory, while Stockfish on Lichess is giving it 30% / 52% / 18%. What you're looking at there is opening explorer, not their analysis engine. I'd guess that the results you saw are based on games that you've played at each website - the master level games database (that chess.com and lichess share) would be something like 40/30/30 for a Ruy Lopez. Analysis will give you a centipawn evaluation for a position (e.g. +0.7 or -2.4) rather than a record of previous games. Both sites use Stockfish. If you left them both to run a position for an hour you'd get the same evaluation, but on default settings it's only running for 30 seconds or what have you so there will be very minor discrepancies. You can see this by even putting the same position into Lichess at different times, the evaluation won't always be exactly the same at a low depth just based on which lines Stockfish happens to run down. Not that the difference between +0.5 and +0.7 is at all meaningful to a human anyway. tanglewood1420 fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Dec 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2021 09:58
|
|
|
So I promised I'd say a couple things about the 'Greek gift' sacrifice, using this game as a model. This isn't a deep dive, just pointing out a couple of basic thematic ideas. So let's begin with this position.  In the game, the N on c3 proved important going to e2 and f4. However, the knight usually can't do that. Either black has traded the N off on c3, or white has played the advance and so has a pawn on c3. So what happens when you don't have the knight? White starts with 1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Ng5+. Kg6. There are two lines black didn't play that we can comment on. If black had played 1...Kh8 instead of Kxh7, white will play Qh5. Sometimes you'll have a mating line starting with Bg6 discovered check, Qh7+ and Qh8+. Other times that isn't mate but you win a bunch of material. If black had played 1...Kg8, white starts with 2.Qh5 again. Now black has to play 2...Re8 to avoid mate. After this point, white has options. Usually the first move is to play 3.Qxf7+ and then after Kh8 you find a way to bring your rook to h3. If you have a way to keep control of the e7 square, instead of 3.Qxf7+ you have a win beginning with 3.Qh7+. Something like 3.Qh7+ Kf8 4.Qh8+ Ng8 5.magically Ba3+ Re7 6.Nh7+ and white's going to win all of black's pieces. In both of these lines, the key thing to look for before starting is black having a knight on e7. The knight on e7 is a huge inconvenience to black, as it blocks all of their defensive tries. Without the knight on e7, white is often reduced to taking a perpetual check with 3.Qxf7+ and 4.Qh5+ What about something closer to the game?  Here white played Ne2 but as I said that's not a thematic move because it's not usually available. So what is the thematic move? The key is 4.Qg4. Your immediate threat is the discovered check 5.Nxe6+. The double check threat entails both an attack on black's queen and a mate on white's king starting with 6.Qxg7+. This means that black can't simply move the queen or defend g7. However, black can't move the king out of danger either: 4...Kh6 is met with 5.Qh4+ and 6.Qh7#. Black's one defensive try is playing 4...f5. This attacks the queen and, if white takes en passant, lets the black king out of the check with Kxf6. So instead just keep the pressure on with 5.Qg3. After this point, you have to start paying close attention. Sometimes black has no defence against Nxe6. For example, with black's bishop on c8, black's only moves to get out of the Nxe6 discovered attack are Qd7 and Qe8. Qd7 allows white to play Qh3 and Qh7# because black can no longer meet Qh3 with Rh8. Qe8 allows white to play (if the bishop had traded off) Nxe6+ and Nxc7, with a winning material advantage. However, sometimes black has an immediate defence. For example, if black's bishop were on d7 rather than c8, black could play Qc8. In circumstances like this, you have to work to bring other pieces into the attack. However this happens depends on the position. The key is that it is very hard for black to defend, because black has to somehow untangle with their king incredibly vulnerable on g6. Note that this means that the Bxh7+ sacrifice isn't always winning. If you're playing the black pieces and have this happen to you, try at least starting out with the Kg6 and f5 plan. It's ugly as hell, but as a defence it can work. It still works at my level (in blitz), so it can definitely work on yours.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 01:24
|
|
|
thanks for helping us get better at chess, Hand Knit. from now on, i will consider Bxh7+ when my bishop's on d3 and their knight's on e7
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 04:45
|
|
|
magnus looks shook
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 14:17
|
|
|
Game 6 potentially spicy!
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 14:23
|
|
|
I got really into chess at the end of last year and I've been kinda using it as a tool to improve my focus recently since now I'm medicated for ADHD and I (mostly) don't blitz out moves without thinking, so I can actually learn the game too. Just made 900 in chess.com, which isn't much but hey, I'll take it, it's like a 200 point improvement in a bit over a month. I started out playing the London and nothing in special with Black because I wanted something that worked for both d4 and e4, then I learned the Pirc and some gimmicks in the Czech variation, found out that I liked playing with fianchetto'd bishops and dropped the London to play the Nimzo-Larsen, haha. It's a bit gimmicky but I don't have the memory for classical opening theory, this way I also get to dodge people playing their YT video notes, lol. One thing that helped me a lot was starting to think about what my moves accomplished in a certain position if I didn't have a forcing option in mind, and understanding the whole thing about tactics coming from strategy, and strategy coming from the opening. To that point, I'd recommend chessbrah's series on applying chess fundamentals to win low Elo games and anything inspired by My System, really. If you can read Spanish or Portuguese, NM Julio Lapertosa wrote a book I found super instructive in understanding how to create tactics during the middlegame that's free on Kindle Unlimited: https://www.amazon.com.br/DAMP-Algoritmo-Revolucionar-T%C3%A1tica-Xadrez-ebook/dp/B081B728XD Anyway, I've been following the World Championship too. Classical chess hurts my head.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 14:55
|
|
|
There's nothing gimmicky about that at all. Some positions just kinda feel right, and that's legitimately a great reason to choose openings that pursue them. I played the Pirc for a bit with black and found that what I really wanted from the opening was to play the e5 break as soon as possible, so I switched to the modern Philidor (1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5) because then you skip the whole 'Pirc' part of the Pirc and just play e5. Also I'm curious to see how the players navigate a good ol' classical Catalan today. It's like the paradigm opening for "get a slight advantage and play forever" but it's not something either player ever really plays from either side. I feel like if this was Ding or Kramnik with the white pieces they would be very happy right now, it's the sort of position a classically-trained Catalan player would really like. But for Carlsen? No idea. It doesn't have that kind of persistent asymmetry that lets him play forever (yet). e: and here comes taking on f6 to create that persistent asymmetry
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 15:04
|
|
|
Speaking of that chessbrah "rules" series, he recommends playing h3/h6 (or a3/a6) after castling to give your king an escape in case of a back rank mate attempt. But I'm also reading Logical Chess by Chernev (as per a recommendation from the previous thread) and like the entire first section of the book is all about how pushing pawns in front of a castled king introduces a weakness that can be exploited and he really drives home how you shouldn't move these pawns. I know no rule is set in stone and it depends on the position etc etc but I'm still very much a chess noob and I'm confused now by what to do in general. Both sides make sense.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 15:36
|
|
|
Would h3/h6 or a3/a6 really be considered pushing? When I think pushing I think something like h3 then g4. But I don't know poo poo about gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 15:40
|
|
|
It's a trade-off, as you note. Generally you probably want to push h3/h6 as a matter of course until you're confident you can see back rank mate threats in advance and create the luft (which can be g3/g6 or some other move if the situation warrants) at the right moment. Aman spends a lot of time in building habits dealing (or failing to deal) with threats that try to exploit the h3 weakness, and that's stuff worth learning.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 15:43
|
|
|
h7 doesn't really open your king up like pushing the f or g pawn (same logic mirrored on the other side), and it can keep you from being back rank mated. There are some specific situations where they can attack that pawn on the flank, but pushing a or h is usually pretty safe. Plus it can cover a square where a knight might want to threaten your kingside. It should usually be a lower priority than your other development, but if you see a back rank mate is possible soon, push the pawn before it happens. On a side note it seems like my bullet rating is finally trending up. It was totally stagnant for a long stretch of time until I took a bit of a break. I think I'm starting to play more accurately and I'm getting less confused dealing with stuff like the Sicilian. I still blunder a pawn or worse pretty often against some of those modern fiancetto setups, though. 
dhamster fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Dec 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 15:46
|
|
|
oh no computer posted:Speaking of that chessbrah "rules" series, he recommends playing h3/h6 (or a3/a6) after castling to give your king an escape in case of a back rank mate attempt. But I'm also reading Logical Chess by Chernev (as per a recommendation from the previous thread) and like the entire first section of the book is all about how pushing pawns in front of a castled king introduces a weakness that can be exploited and he really drives home how you shouldn't move these pawns. Chernev's advice is objectively better, while the chessbrah advice is very specifically tuned to people shuffling pieces in online blitz and are liable to just kind of accidentally lose to missing a back rank threat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 15:55
|
|
|
butros posted:Would h3/h6 or a3/a6 really be considered pushing? When I think pushing I think something like h3 then g4. But I don't know poo poo about gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 15:56
|
|
|
This is a really rich position. What I imagine is up is that Carlsen intuitively feels like he should be solidly better, but needs to find a way to navigate through the surprisingly many tactical resources Nepomniachtchi has.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
Hand Knit posted:This is a really rich position. What I imagine is up is that Carlsen intuitively feels like he should be solidly better, but needs to find a way to navigate through the surprisingly many tactical resources Nepomniachtchi has. i was surprised how long he spent a couple moves back thinking about kg1, iirc there were only 3 legal moves and 2 of them were obviously bad
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
do it magnus. trade the queen for the rooks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
fart simpson posted:i was surprised how long he spent a couple moves back thinking about kg1, iirc there were only 3 legal moves and 2 of them were obviously bad You mean Nepo playing Kg7? It's a hard move to play because your rooks are still passive so it really feels like you should be doing more. Also the two rooks for a queen is exciting. We just might get a result this game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 16:43
|
|
|
Hand Knit posted:You mean Nepo playing Kg7? It's a hard move to play because your rooks are still passive so it really feels like you should be doing more. i mean when nepo went qb7+, magnus took like 5 minutes to move his king to g1 and yes, i have high hopes for a real result today too
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 16:45
|
|
|
fart simpson posted:i mean when nepo went qb7+, magnus took like 5 minutes to move his king to g1 oh yaeh, that. Sometimes you just need to double check a couple of concrete lines. Even if you're always playing Kg1 you think about what comes next.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
Hand Knit posted:oh yaeh, that. Sometimes you just need to double check a couple of concrete lines. Even if you're always playing Kg1 you think about what comes next. yeah that's what i was thinking, but he's running into potential time trouble here
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 16:51
|
|
|
fart simpson posted:nepo’s gonna win
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 17:20
|
|
|
I truly had no idea high-level classical chess so often came to a draw, but I've been listening to the Chess Pit podcast for post-game recaps and thinking about it, it makes sense. Magnus and Ian are sitting there for multiple minutes per move running through lines in their heads - this blows my mind because it is a skill I have yet to learn. It's not bullet or rapid when you have a matter of minutes total and you can't afford the time to use your cranial Stockfish. Instead, these guys are sitting there with their mental engines until they come to a "perfect" move. When you have two GMs playing damned near perfect chess with one or two inaccuracies (not blunders or mistakes from what the Chess Pit guys are saying) per game, I can completely understand how that sort of play leads to a draw in a significant portion of games. But then by the same token, as I have learned myself, all it takes is one little mistake to throw the game in your opponent's favor. Miss a potential capture, lose a piece to it, and your carefully crafted positional advantage is shattered and you end up getting mated in 3. EDIT: Whatever happened to green/white boards and Staunton sets being tournament regulation? Or was that just some bullshit Chess for Dummies put down my throat? D34THROW fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
There's 8 minutes between them for 5 moves and they've both made big mistakes in the last few. This is getting very spicy (and will still end up in a draw).
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 17:24
|
|
|
e5 is a very playing for a win move
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:08 |
|
|
Hand Knit posted:e5 is a very playing for a win move qd5 isnt though
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2021 17:29
|
|