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Thank you for the effort post
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Dec 1, 2021 01:02
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headlines if they come out early: Steelers' Rattler Rattled Steelers' Slovis Don't Even Notice
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Dec 1, 2021 01:31
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It would rule if Sauce Gardner was around when the Bengals draft but I'd also be pretty cool with them drafting after he's available.
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Dec 1, 2021 01:34
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Howie has been to a couple Pitt games in person and I'm terrified he's gonna spend a top 10 pick on Kenny Pickett Is there anything he's doing different this year than he did in his previous 3 years of blah? I know you mentioned he still has mechanical flaws, did he actually fix it somewhat this year or was it present since day 1? Or is his massive year soley because he spent there years with the same dudes and developed a psychic connection over the years
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Dec 1, 2021 07:08
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Howie has been to a couple Pitt games in person and I'm terrified he's gonna spend a top 10 pick on Kenny Pickett I mean, he’s pretty clean mechanically and cut some of the windup/happy feet stuff that he did early at Pitt, but that’s been gradual over the years like most improvements with the most benefit hitting this year. His mechanical improvement is on par with most dudes who don’t blow your doors off with talent but end up in the league for a while—think the Matt Barkley/Ryan Finley types. He’s just not quiiiite as limited as those guys. Also, don’t discount the idea that getting that type of chemistry in a system with limited skill talent and limited arm talent does indicate that he’s at a minimum capable of improvement and working with what’s around him from a processing and utilization standpoint. His ability to know where windows are and not throw picks with average velocity and touch balls in the short/intermediate game is really good—it’s just not a game changer for a modern offense. I think he can be better than those guys and be that Bridgewater/Dalton type of plus game manager that occasionally makes some flashy plays. If it were me drafting this year, I go between him and Corral for “least bad” option depending on who my coach and system is better for. Geno Smith is another decent comparison. Obviously, that spans the gamut from career backup to “hey he’s been an okay starter”. Your moonshot is he turns into Burrow, but his best case scenario is probably Kirk. He’s like the anti-Hurts, if that helps you psychically at all.
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Dec 1, 2021 07:32
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Howie has been to a couple Pitt games in person and I'm terrified he's gonna spend a top 10 pick on Kenny Pickett Two of his main offensive components this year were underused freshman last year. Either way I think he's an example of just putting in a ton of work to get better. His offense is play action out of the shotgun and he looked a lot calmer in this years tape compared to last years. Like TGG said the Clemson game is a good example of him getting constant blitz's and handling it well. He took what the defense was giving him and still had the ability to test the defense when the short game was pulling the safeties up. Also shows how much of a boon Addison was for him this year. Yeah he's got mechanic problems and has to put his whole body into a throw to produce the velocity from his highlight reels but I see a guy who can easily fit into the designed roll out offenses that are becoming so hip in the age of mobile oline.
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Dec 1, 2021 07:40
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Who are the best centers in this class and how thicc(c) are they?
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Dec 1, 2021 15:28
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Who are the best centers in this class and how thicc(c) are they? Just draft the Iowa guy and don’t think about it for 10 years
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Dec 1, 2021 16:55
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Unfortunately the Iowa guy is probably going to be gone by the time the Bengals pick
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Dec 1, 2021 22:15
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Has there been many (or any) years where a QB didn't go in the top 10?
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Dec 1, 2021 22:26
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Has there been many (or any) years where a QB didn't go in the top 10? Last time it happened was 2013 when the first QB drafted was EJ Manuel (lmao) at 16
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Dec 1, 2021 22:29
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TheGreyGhost posted:Just draft the Iowa guy and don’t think about it for 10 years 290 pounds??? what a world
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Dec 1, 2021 22:33
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2013 has to be one of the worst QB classes in history. Not a single decent starter. The best player was who? Geno Smith who's trash.
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Dec 1, 2021 22:41
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Ornery and Hornery posted:290 pounds??? You can get away with "undersized" interior linemen in particular if their pad level is good and they get to the point of attack ready to go. Add 10 pounds to his listed and no one would blink. BlindSite posted:2013 has to be one of the worst QB classes in history. Not a single decent starter. The best player was who? Geno Smith who's trash. '13 and '14 back to back is really really funny in retrospect, but we might be headed for that type of back to back depending on if Stroud/Young come out next year and if they make some tweaks. Young freelances so much that he gets killed when his skill players aren't god tier at times because his sense of pocket awareness is entirely based around "I'm faster than everyone", and he's got some insanely bad feet when he throws outside the numbers. Stroud comes out at times and hangs balls because he falls off of his follow-through and occasionally drops his back shoulder while trying to set. Stroud's mechanical fixes shouldn't be that difficult to work on with an offseason coach, and his awareness is generally solid although he still has the young QB tendency of trying to force plays that aren't there, particularly at the boundary where he thinks he's "safe" and giving his receiver a chance when good college corners can get past a WR. Young's are more of a game feel thing for not freelancing too much, and he's really got to work on getting his steps shorter and easier to set because he loves to try to throw from wide stances that make him throw low fastballs and loopy deep balls at times. They both throw some insanely pretty vertical shots at times though so can't be as bad as this class if they both come out next year.
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Dec 1, 2021 22:57
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Please rename the thread to "2022 Draft Thread: The Coal that Powers the Off Season Steam Engine" And add a poll if Daltos will pee during the draft this year. Thank you.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:24
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just wanna thank you all, especially Daltos and Grey Ghost, for the effort put in these threads that I enjoy reading a lot
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Dec 2, 2021 15:37
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Alaois posted:Last time it happened was 2013 when the first QB drafted was EJ Manuel (lmao) at 16 The Year Of The Combine having Tavon Austin go in the Top 10 was hilarious.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:47
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Alaois posted:Last time it happened was 2013 when the first QB drafted was EJ Manuel (lmao) at 16 Little did I know that the Bills were playing Russian roulette with a fully-loaded revolver.
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Dec 2, 2021 18:59
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So uh, Haener looks like he's staying in college, and the early whispers are similar for Daniels. Unclear what's happening with McKee as well. We know Ridder is playing the senior bowl though and moving on, so here's my breakdown on him: Desmond Ridder - Cincinnati So uh, little known fact, but on top of being a stereotypical Browns/Buckeyes guy, I did my MBA at Cincinnati and lived there for 5-6 years. As such, this is the only QB on the list I can tell you I've seen in person and have watched for essentially his entire career. Ordinarily, that should make this evaluation pretty easy, but this is where I really have to characterize just what an enigma Ridder can be game to game. I'll start with his physical profile because that can't change play to play. He's about 6'2 or so and 210, and he's a legitimate running threat along the lines of probably running a 4.5-4.6 if I had to guess. He does look lean for his size, but he's never really had significant durability issues despite being a 500-600 rushing yards a year guy for his career. If I'm guessing, a coach may want him at 220 for the sake not losing his QB, but he's come a long way from being 180 pounds as a freshman where every scramble made you go "oh god please go down". We can't really start talking Ridder without talking about his footwork and stance. For a mobile QB, I'm actually surprisingly happy with the way he's developed. He turns fast and moves in such a way and he generally keeps his hips and feet on a line to where they need to be whenever he's in the pocket and moving right. He opens his hips running left for cross-body throws, which isn't always ideal but is less of an issue since he's more a scramble threat to the left than the right by virtue of what's a higher percentage play. He does let his legs overstride now and then, typically at the back of a drop which makes him hang a ball, but that happens a lot with QBs that have his athleticism because they're constantly trying to maximize their running economy over what's nominally the most "stable" for a pass. All that said, we now need to talk about the guy's arm and upper body mechanics. A running joke with my wife's family of absolutely bonkers UC fans is that you literally cannot have an ESPN UC telecast without someone mentioning that Ridder's Grandma is the one who taught him how to first throw a football. If that's the case, I really sincerely wonder at times if she still is his mechanics coach because he does some truly bizarre things at times that looks as though he's inexplicably worried about getting enough on the ball. From a pure arm talent standpoint, he could have the best pure arm in the class. He routinely can throw a 30-40 yard shot without much difficulty and can stick the ball on a receiver over the middle faster than almost anyone in this class (damning with faint praise), yet he never does it consistently. As far as I can tell, the reason this happens appears to be in his windup and initial ball placement once he gets the ball above his chest. For example, if you watch the throw here at 1:49, you can see that he has a tendency to get the ball roughly to his ear (the typical target for an average motion) then whips the ball backwards like he's trying to bring the ball through his body on a straight line like an arrow shot. The actual arc and trajectory of his ball on an alarming amount of attempts is driven by him moving his shoulders up or down and repeating that arrow motion rather than changing the release point of his hand or arm. This creates two major problems that leak into his usually decent footwork: he fails to transfer his weight forward the whole way (leaves the ball soft and shorter than he wants) and falling off the throw trying to keep his arm straight (pushing the ball in the right general direction but generating a lot of inconsistent misses). When you watch him in the quick game or max protection shots when he's not under pressure at all, he doesn't seem to hitch the same way and almost always transfers his weight, so it does appear that this happens most commonly on play action, long drops, and scramble drills, which is frustrating given how well he actually moves and sets prior to starting the throw. If I were a QB coach or a mechanical coach working with him, I would be making him drop backwards into a wall or pad where he could notice that he's whipping the ball backwards to try to get that corrected. If he learns to keep that compact, he's actually going to get better velocity and distance since he can transfer his whole weight and torque into the ball as opposed to falling off or around the throw, and he has a good arm for velocity and air by NFL standards at that point, somewhere along the lines of a Mayfield or Ryan but firmly not in freak territory. As such, his tape looks odd from play to play. He has drives, plays, and games where he looks completely unstoppable and hits 3-4 deep balls and outside the number throws that look like a modern NFL tape. Then, you'll see him throw a soft interception to a cloud/hook zone DB that he clearly saw and tried to go around. I think part of this is how defenses choose to defend him. If you sit back try to contain his scrambles and make him wait to pass, he can carve you up. If you try to move him around but limit his ability to get downfield on a scramble (think directional blitzing to force him left or to the boundary), you can bait him into some dumb passes trying to make something happen. Even on plays where he's not in danger or pressured, he still will have mechanical lapses like the paragraph before that create dumb/dangerous situations. His offense is actually pretty well designed for his personal style, unsurprisingly for a 4-year starter, with an emphasis on bigger receivers and TEs in the pattern to absorb some of his accuracy issues and create mismatches that he reads well and can move around. He's had full audible and protection responsibilities for 3 years now as well, albeit I don't think he changes plays a lot given that Denbrock is actually a pretty good playcaller. He's also well known for being in almost every coaching meeting about offensive gameplan, which is the type of thing that an NFL team is going to love when he goes to the board and has to look for very marginal gains to be had. So what do I think of him holistically? In a normal year, he's a day 2 guy that I try to develop with an older QB around who's done that mechanical work and emphasize to him that this is going to be about doing the single hardest thing for a QB to work on--fixing his arm mechanics. If he cuts that hitch and learns to change his arm angle rather than his shoulder angle, he's the best QB in this draft, but that's akin to the mechanical transformation that Rodgers and Allen have had to make at the NFL level which is the exception rather than the rule. Unless I have an extremely proficient QB coach on my roster, I get wary of drafting a guy with this many reps because of how hard those changes can be to make. From an upside standpoint, he has the same ceiling as Corral or Willis where he could be a pro bowl caliber guy with the right breaks and system and an understanding that a lot of this development is work on his personal mechanics rather than any of the typical "read a defense/be a leader" stuff that the greybeards love to talk about. I think his floor is closer to Corral than Willis, but Corral has more consistent ball placement right now and is probably a better bet in the near term. If you can sit Ridder for a year or two though? He's a great project to have considering the stuff you're working on is all things that he can work on by himself rather than needing a poo poo load of team reps for. As a prospect he reminds me a lot of Kaepernick or Kellen Mond, where he has plus athleticism but frequently has mechanics and stiffness about parts of his motion that prevent him from doing the things that he sees and wants to do on the field. His best case scenario is essentially 85% Lamar which is still enough to make super bowl runs on a decent supporting case, but this is a really really tough ask he's got ahead of him.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:40
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Can someone please break down the punters
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Dec 2, 2021 20:14
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a neat cape posted:Can someone please break down the punters Draft Araiza in the 1st you cowards.
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Dec 2, 2021 20:28
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Any good guards in the draft outside of the NC State guy
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Dec 2, 2021 21:06
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Oooo Tyler Lindenbaum with San Frans 1st seems good imo
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Dec 2, 2021 21:10
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I enjoyed the Ridder write up and watch a lot of UC and agree that he has obvious talent but is weirdly inconsistent for a four year starter. Thanks.
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Dec 2, 2021 21:45
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a neat cape posted:Can someone please break down the punters Punts for the Punt God
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Dec 2, 2021 21:53
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I'm so glad this QB class is filled with what seems to be boom or bust guys when my team is trotting out the ghost of Cam Newton, the corpse of Sam Darnold and Pj loving walker.
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Dec 2, 2021 23:12
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How are the Tackles in this draft? On both sides of the ball.
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Dec 2, 2021 23:29
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the "draft guys" live in cincinnati with me in my house/home
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Dec 2, 2021 23:36
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Mike Brown rents from Cavauro drat he really is broke
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Dec 2, 2021 23:39
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thegreyghost tell me about eric barriere
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Dec 2, 2021 23:40
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I'm starting to worry that there might not be 4 or 5 All-Pro level LTs still on the board in the middle of the 2nd round.
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Dec 3, 2021 01:48
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Ornery and Hornery posted:290 pounds??? The outside zone/Shanahan tree guys are going to loving love him, he's about as perfect a prospect as you're going to get for them and I don't know if anyone's going to give a poo poo if he ends up with like 32" arms or whatever. He's not just a wild athlete in space for an IOL but he's very good at their 1st level blocks too. I mean consider how the Jets paid a premium to trade up for a Guard last year because there's such a big demand for guys who can play that scheme with like eight Shanahan-tree offenses in the league and some more who have similar run schemes but are unaffiliated. Amy Pole Her posted:Oooo Tyler Lindenbaum with San Frans 1st seems good imo I do kind of wonder how the teams that don't major in outside zone are going to feel about Lindenbaum. He's a excellent pulling center, but that's not something you see that often. I don't know if it's just a rarity because the players are rare, but I kind of suspect that teams shy away from it for logistical reasons- a center pulling while a QB is doing his footwork to hand off to a runningback can get messy quick, the need to deliver the ball to a the QB before pulling, etc.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:11
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Seeing what this Titans team looks like if Henry ever gets hurt makes me very curious what this running back class looks like.
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Dec 3, 2021 04:50
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I hope Ridder doesn't go to the Steelers because I want to root for him.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:12
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Garrett Wilson is mulling pulling an Olave and staying another year. Logically, I think he should go and get paid, but the homer in me is verrrry interested in what he could do with a year as the main vertical threat in that system.Alaois posted:thegreyghost tell me about eric barriere So, given that like every QB seems to be leaning towards coming back for a year outside of the ones I've previewed, I'm going to take requests for a bit. Finding tape on him hasn't been super easy, so I'm going off of the NDSU game from the spring and the Idaho game that he got famous for. Barriere is small--like, he's listed at 6'1 210, and I'm thinking he falls in the Mayfield/Murray category with that where he's probably 5'11 or 6'0. He's not slight, but I don't see a Lamar level workload on his legs, maybe a Murray/Hurts level at most. I do want to talk about his physical abilities because they're fascinating. Watching his arm, he might have the most live arm in this class--full stop. His delivery right now looks like he's essentially never been coached beyond someone yelling at him to stop winding across his body, resulting in him sort of shot-putting or catapulting the ball out. When you watch his deep ball, he throws a lot of airy rainbows since he changes his arm angle to essentially a 45 degree launch and just throws up rather than through. Part of this is because he's constantly running for his life behind that offensive line and throwing on the move, but having that as a reflex isn't great considering the tell of "stare straight up before launching a slow loopy deep ball" is a recipe for a good cover safety to have a career day against you. When he can turn into a ball with his weight or set, he gets a lot of instant velocity into the ball which fundamentally changes what you can do with him, since he can throw guys open deep or fit a ball into a tight window at the numbers from some bizarre angles and launch points. Sort of the opposite of Malik Willis where he launches so high at times that it takes all the gas off of the ball in favor of air as opposed to the weird 3/4 delivery that lowers everything. In a similar vein, my favorite thing about him is how he moves in the passing game. So many mobile QBs take big steps, turn their hips, and set wide or offset when they throw which leads to inaccuracy. The only time I see his feet look really off is when he's within about 2 yards of the sideline and in a position of "throw or take the loss". When he's between the tackles or even about to roll, he's very economical with his feet and doesn't overstride or run until he has a lane, and that should put him in a position to make good throws from there--he just isn't comfortable enough with his weight transfer and arm angles to consistently do it. I've said before, arm movements are the hardest thing to train out, but this is unique in that category since I almost want him to add a tiny bit of draw back to his motion so that he can get a more consistent feel for the ball to push it out, lest he throw so many all or nothing balls like he does now. If he gets that arm motion repeatable to where he's not angling himself like a trebuchet and can throw mid-speed balls between fast and painfully slow, he could be a really solid passer with his feet this good. He's also fast enough to be a scramble threat, but probably as a 4.5-4.6 guy where he's not going to be breaking long TDs at the next level by any stretch. That offense he's in is fascinating too. Lots of wide/vertical sets that involve him having to read and feel coverages out to know if he has a hot read or safe throw, but they absolutely cannot build a line that allows these plays to happen from the pocket. He throws a lot of vertical balls from sets outside of the tackle, and that's an anomaly even by air raid/raid-influence standards where only Mahomes-era Kliff and RG3 come to mind as guys who I watched do that a lot. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the touch/feel on his passes to belong in the same breath as those guys right now, though he does have some rather insane upside. If I'm projecting him, he feels a lot like Josh Dobbs--physically talented guy who has some serious technical issues in the upper body who spent most of college running for their lives. He has the raw talent and tools to do anything, but he's so technically raw on things that you need a patient QB coach and extremely stalwart QB ahead of him because he's a minimum of a year from playing, maybe 2-3. I'd take him Round 5-7, but he's a big project on a small roster. If he grad transfers to a QB friendly program though, he could potentially help himself a lot. He's got raw processing power and the ability to see/feel his way around an offense, he just needs to be coached into something technically coherent.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:32
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I got a couple questions for you hot shot draft experts: 1) What does this draft have in the way of rangey cover 1 FSs with CB coverage skills as well as 250lb ILBs who can take on the o-line every snap like a DL and pass rush and tackle RBs also play decent coverage, actually we might need two of those, particularly someone available at the 32nd overall pick or later? A quick google search turns up names like Daxton Hill/Jalen Catalon or Christian Harris/Brandon Smith/James Skalski, any of these worth adding to the spank bank? 2) Who are the best Navy players? Navy been dominating college ball as always right? I’m interested to know more about being a big Navy fan like I am.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:07
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Magicpants posted:I got a couple questions for you hot shot draft experts: You should probably get familiar with Leo Chenal, I'm sure Belichick is going to love the dude. He's not a 1:1 replacement for Hightower, but he's a big, physical linebacker who is a solid blitzer and isn't a complete dud in coverage.
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Dec 10, 2021 02:58
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I’m roughly as interested in where Guys I Know will end up than whatever inevitable failure the Lions take. What do folks think of Kenneth Walker III? Third round maybe? He’s an incredibly patient runner and breaks a lot of tackles.
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Dec 10, 2021 16:03
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Henchman of Santa posted:I’m roughly as interested in where Guys I Know will end up than whatever inevitable failure the Lions take. What do folks think of Kenneth Walker III? Third round maybe? He’s an incredibly patient runner and breaks a lot of tackles. Its still pretty early, but this last Lions draft is looking drat good so far.
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Dec 10, 2021 16:44
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Which RB is most like Marshawn Lynch in this draft? E: What RB is most like Jamaal Charles in this draft? Ornery and Hornery fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 17:46
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