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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
OP you're right and the toxicity of online posting is getting to be so well-known that even academics are talking about it.

quote:

Though prior studies have analyzed the textual characteristics of online comments about politics, less is known about how selection into commenting behavior and exposure to other people’s comments changes the tone and content of political discourse. This article makes three contributions. First, we show that frequent commenters on Facebook are more likely to be interested in politics, to have more polarized opinions, and to use toxic language in comments in an elicitation task. Second, we find that people who comment on articles in the real world use more toxic language on average than the public as a whole; levels of toxicity in comments scraped from media outlet Facebook pages greatly exceed what is observed in comments we elicit on the same articles from a nationally representative sample. Finally, we demonstrate experimentally that exposure to toxic language in comments increases the toxicity of subsequent comments.

https://academic.oup.com/joc/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/joc/jqab034/6363640?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Seems like in a lot of environments the more you post the worse you feel, and the worse you feel the more you want to take it out on others. It's a toxicity feedback loop that makes everyone involved unhappy.

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

dead gay comedy forums posted:

what sort of loving gently caress BULLSHIT POST is this on CEE-SPAM by a purported MODERATOR}!?!?!?!?!?! FUKC YUO ALTIDORE IS A poo poo STRIKER

he is indeed a poo poo striker

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Lib and let die posted:

OP there's actually some merit to the idea that the transmission method or medium of information is just as powerful, if not more powerful than, the message being transmitted via that medium. In the 1960's, Canadian Media Professor Marshall McLuhan proposed in his book Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man that the media itself, not the content itself is more influential on a society than any message it carries. He would also classify mediums as "hot" or "cold" mediums, based on whether some receiver engagement was expected or not. Other forums will laud the Shannon-Weaver model as an unassailable bastion of media analysis, but McLuhan saw that model as being tied to a necessary notion of efficient causality that was largely undone when the definition of efficient causality it is based upon was revealed to have been due to an early print-era mistranslation of Aristotle's idea of efficient causality.

Rather than a causal model, McLuhan proposed a 'tetrad' shaped model, described on wikipedia as such:

Given that there are so many formats to internet communication, we can't unfortunately apply the Tetrad to "The Internet", but rather it's more suited to avenues of communication within the internet.

What does vlogging enhance?
What does longform forums posting enhance?
What do tweets and twitter threads enhance?

What do they obsolete?
What do they retrieve? For forumsposting, we could certainly argue a sense of nostalgia in the world of 240 characters or less!
What are they when taken to the extreme? Well, the Media Analysis & Criticism Thread in that forum is probably a good example of a medium taken to an extreme.

This is an interesting way to look at it, and there's one particular place where I think it's worth probing the difference not just between "the internet" and other forms of media, but within internet communication types. In particular, comparing a forum like this one to "social media". Of course you can see an oldschool web 1.0 internet forum like this as a form of social media. It's a medium where we're social with each other. But it departs from "social media" as we think of it today (facebook, twitter, tiktok, instagram, etc.) in a few clear ways, not least of which is that there's no behind-the-scenes prioritization of anything other than maybe recency, i.e., the default view for a forum on SA is to see stickied threads first and then threads sorted by most recent post. A thread with a million replies will get shunted below a thread with one reply if that one reply was made more recently, there's no algorithm sorting which threads you see and saying "this one with a million replies is clearly driving more engagement with the site so I'll push it to the top", it's just sorting by last post.

This remains one of my favourite things about SA, it's set up for people to interact with each other and not for people to game an algorithm to get their things prioritized. There's no like or +/- post rating system other than rating threads which doesn't do anything unless you're a deeply strange person who reads the forum sorted by thread rating, and so there's nothing for the forum to prioritize except what the users themselves prioritize by posting a lot. There's a real contrast with the engagement-driven radicalization engine of something like facebook or twitter or youtube that recognizes what drives greater engagement regardless of its content and pushes it towards more people to make it more popular so that people will spend more time on the site.

Or, put another way, we radicalize ourselves here instead of letting a computer do it for us.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Lib and let die posted:

I wrote A Lot of Words about this idea after all the AOC Met Gala stuff, when she tweeted out this statement. It's buried in the succ thread somewhere and I may go back and refine it, but she didn't do the idea justice, and really sort of perverted McLuhan's theories to shield herself from criticism.

Yeah, this jives with a lot of what I've drawn from my readings on McLuhan and Postman's works, though I might argue that in certain cases there is some sort of internal, background mechanism to promote certain ideas - curators of a forum can use various distinction tools available to them to elevate some voices above other though it's considerable less obfuscated than "the algorithm" because you can generally point to one of a handful of potential suspects that elevate a voice because the ones with that power are straight up publicly listed at the top of that forum.

Absolutely. Even just using my very simple example of thread order in a subforum, ahead of the "last posted" sort order there are stickied threads, which got there because somebody with the power to stick threads went in and used it rather than because a computer determined that those were the best threads to have at the top of the forum.

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