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Midjack posted:The phone apps sometimes have weird spoiler tag interactions, it likely is hidden in a browser. To be safe, paste the link as a url rather than as a video and it'll be behind a link. Yeahhh The first 50 seconds of that video was not fun stuff. The later clips were quite a lot better actually. But the initial part was some bad poo poo and I'm glad they seem to have moved on.
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Dec 19, 2021 23:18
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| # ? May 2, 2024 17:27 |
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For those of you out there thinking that this kind of illness must be a hellish to live through: Well its not exactly fun, but there is a silver lining when you compare it to so many other lethal afflictions. If a seizure occurs, I don't suffer. First thing that happens is that consciousness goes away and I won't be regaining it until all the dice have been rolled and the drama has played out. So live or die, I get to skip all the super terrible looking stuff. I hope that makes it at least a little bit easier for those of you who have to live with the fear of seeing a loved one go through a seizure.
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Dec 20, 2021 21:55
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So a thought just occurred to me. If you know someone with epilepsy who is at risk of a full blown seizure from looking at something on their phone, tv, computer etc. take the time to talk with them about having someone they absolutely trust go through their recently used media devices and clear caches and browser histories. If I get a seizure from watching something, chances are that I will have forgotten what I was during right when I got said seizure and I'll try to go back what I last remembered doing (likely browsing something a minute or two before hitting the digital landmine).
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Dec 20, 2021 22:40
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Welp got a new one for you and this one actually scared me since I haven't run into this reaction before: Harmful links are intentionally made unclickable, copy/paste them into to an address bar to see them. Trust me on this one, its really creepy for an epileptic https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/714361338260095067/922600985971527730/repulsor6.mp4 Edit: Err that was not meant to embed. /Edit. This one gave me a completely new sensation. Its really hard to describe too. Closest I can think of at the moment is standing in a field of wheat and seeing there is not a single wind moving, then suddenly you are blasted with a wave of air. Completely surreal. And then, just as quick as it came, the feeling is gone again. There was this slight tensioning of a vein on the left side of my head that I'm not really liking the feeling of happening. Someone with more severe epilepsy might get in a bit of trouble even though it didn't really hit me at first. 5 minutes later my head started to feel a little wobbly. Usually this kind of stuff just hurts a bit or nauseates me...but this one went to the....what's the side of head called in english...temple? and messed with a muscle or vein or something causing it to twitch a bit. Really scary feeling since I haven't run into that before I mean, it might be fine and its just a new super mild thing for me. But fear of the unknown and all that 17 minutes after watching it, I could feel pressure slowly building up in the left side of my head. Took another 3-5 minutes before the pressure started letting up again. (As I post this, 26 minutes has elapsed since I first looked at that animation, so there might be more updates on this. Who knows? Thats the joy of exploring the unknown.) Edit 2: Welp its been 15 minutes since my previous post and I'm still feeling a lot of general body tension. Bleh I'm gonna call it a night so I can sleep this off. Btw, thinking about having to relax and not stress out is a really bad coping strategy since it just makes you go around in circles of logic versus subconscious insistence. Much better plan to just find a book on something mindnumbingly tedious (I recommend a good book on German national war economy during WWII called Wages of Destruction, its fascinatingly writting about an incredibly dry subject.) and just plow through as many pages as you can until you fall asleep. SerthVarnee fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Oct 30, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2021 22:56
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SerthVarnee posted:So a thought just occurred to me. If you know someone with epilepsy who is at risk of a full blown seizure from looking at something on their phone, tv, computer etc. take the time to talk with them about having someone they absolutely trust go through their recently used media devices and clear caches and browser histories. If I get a seizure from watching something, chances are that I will have forgotten what I was during right when I got said seizure and I'll try to go back what I last remembered doing (likely browsing something a minute or two before hitting the digital landmine). The "clear recent history" function of some browsers may also help if you can't get a manual review too.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:43
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Do things in real life trigger these reactions? Like say, driving through a tunnel, or a highway at night with passing streetlights, or fast moving textured clouds on a windy day? Would a printout of one of those optical illusions have the same effect as the same static image on a screen? The flag one is interesting. I can get static images that look like they're moving triggering it, but I never would have expected something as static as the flag pattern to cause it.
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Dec 21, 2021 06:05
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And I'm back! That was an interesting evening of not knowing if things was going to escalate further. Anyways, yeah the clear recent history thing is a good option, I was having a bit of trouble focusing on getting my post written due to the aforementioned animation testing. I should have expressed it better, but at the same time, I suddenly wasn't able to express it better. Things in real life can certainly cause me discomfort. A fast moving cloud cover is not one of the triggers though, since that isn't on "repeat". And its something my mind knows how works. Riding the bus to town though, that messes with me, since I happen to take the bus at just the right time of day for the sun to be shining through the birch/pine forest that surrounds the road. Super pretty, but it also gives a kind of slow strobe light effect when the bus is going about 80km/h. That is just uncomfortable though, doesn't do any lasting damage to me. Digital stuff can do the lasting damage because it is a human imitation of a real thing. The combination of the imitation not getting it quite right and the limitations of the digital media, can send an epileptic into some real bad poo poo. In that manner I suppose you could describe epilepsy as a sort of subconscious OCD with a selfharming feedback system built in. (This is the case for me, might be wildly inaccurate for other epileptics)
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Dec 21, 2021 08:23
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Oh god even without epilepsy the evening/morning sunlight strobing through the trees has always been the most uncomfortable thing for me. I'll avoid a route or set out early to avoid it
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Dec 21, 2021 14:54
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While we wait for the next adventure to come at me from the depths of the internet, anyone got any questions or topics you'd like me to elaborate on?
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Dec 22, 2021 23:13
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SerthVarnee posted:While we wait for the next adventure to come at me from the depths of the internet, anyone got any questions or topics you'd like me to elaborate on? Do you get the same effect if you think of an image/gif? Does your brain “fix” the image in your head?
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Dec 22, 2021 23:37
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ASAPI posted:Do you get the same effect if you think of an image/gif? Does your brain “fix” the image in your head? Hard to tell, I've had something akin to Aphantasia for the last 20 years or so, so the only kind of images I can produce in my mind are very vague direct memories. Can't modify them in my mind, hell I can barely get them into focus. I don't believe that the effect would be similar though, the problem lies in the brain's interpretation speed of the input coming from the eyes. Once it's stored in the brain, the brain seems to autocorrect dangers.
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Dec 22, 2021 23:41
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Found another wonderful version of headfucking. My friend bought me Deep Rock Galactic and I just went through the tutorial. The cutscenes and the in-mission map both have a visual effect going that mimics the old CRT screens. Specifically that lines of static travelling across the screen. I managed to completely the tutorial, but had to stop after that (so took about 8 minutes of playtime) because my left eye is sending my brain a constant low key pain signal. This is probably going to continue for somewhere between 20 minutes and 4 hours.
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Dec 23, 2021 13:19
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Along the lines of the Marvel trailers earlier, have real world paper flipbook animations ever given you problems?
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Dec 23, 2021 17:14
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Not that I recall no. Also regarding my fun experience with Deep Rock Galactic earlier: Took 3½ hours for the headache/fatigue to wear off.
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Dec 23, 2021 17:23
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I hope you don't mind me asking about an epilepsy trigger in here! Does something like this bother you? Potential epilepsy warning Image description: It's bongo cat. An otherwise stationary cat whose paws are flickering between two frames rapidly of slapping on a desk. Art not mine. I've drawn this sort of thing before as a joke (I edited bongo cat to be a friend's character) and I saw it today and I was like, hmm could that cause someone with photosensitivity problems? Should I be careful about this in my animation?  I didn't think it was a problem at the time because the flickering was localized to a relatively small area, but reading this thread has educated me that it's a lot more complicated than full-screen strobing effects.
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Dec 31, 2021 08:58
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Oooh interesting case! Okay so first up, its not causing me discomfort. Second, all of my attention is glued to the moving paws. 1 minute after I've closed the tab, you could have told me that it was a truck with a smiling radiator and I would not have been able to refute you. Err...okay so right as I finished writing that, I did feel a small stinging sensation in my right eye for a brief moment, followed by a sensation of...water? flowing down the inside of my body. I'm going to chalk the flowing sensation up to being overheated since it coincided with me ditching a sweater. Not really any way of getting around the stinging sensation in my eye. I recommend slowing the paw animation down a bit and relinking it. I can keep checking it out for you until we hit a sweet spot where its still moving as intended but not causing me any trouble. SerthVarnee fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Dec 31, 2021 |
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Dec 31, 2021 09:17
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For those of you who read this thread trying to learn more about living with disabilities, man have I got a link for you: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3967548&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 I don't think I've ever been so conflicted about linking anything before in my life. The linked thread is an absolute gold mine of information on a very diverse range of disabilities. Seriously, I doubt you'll ever run into this big of a treasure hoard when it comes to gaining the perspective of the people who actually suffer from the disabilities instead of the treatises written by the normal people who study the "broken" minds and bodies (counting myself in the group of "broken" here, no offense intended) The reason I found myself conflicted is that it is centered around a Let's Play of an anime visual novel that started it's development on....4chan... It focuses on a person suffering from a recently discovered crippling heart condition, who has to start a new life in a high school for the disabled and, being the type of game it is, lets you date 5 different disabled people. If you are thinking "WTF why is he babbling about what sounds like goddamn cripple porn from 4chan" then you can probably understand my conflicted emotions. I just spent 5 days trawling through the whole thing before committing to linking this, because I wanted to be drat certain about what I was passing on. I dislike anime. I hate 4chan. I have no interest in Visual Novels. This sounds like the worst idea ever. It turns out to be the best source of life-changing insight that I have ever found. Give it a read, skip the Visual Novel if you can't stand it, but definitely go through the OP and check out the huge list of in-thread links to effort post after effort post about living with a vast range of crippling illnesses, disabilities, handicaps, depression, mistreatment, condescending guardians, frustrations about medicine. The list goes on. Also the 4chan participation lasted for a very short while before the only people left working on the actual game was a group of people who took their job very seriously and did their research, so don't worry about that particular blemish on the game's history.
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Jan 2, 2022 13:18
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I learned a new word today! "Postictal" which apparantly refers to the phase right after a seizure has ended. It usually produces the symptoms that I normally would describe as "not that bad, but certainly having an effect on me". So what I assumed was just light triggering effects, may actually have been a 4 hour recovery process following a split second seizure. How delightfully terrifying.
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Jan 14, 2022 15:49
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Sometimes there really isn't any way around the "Do not be epileptic or photosensitive when using this program" warnings. One of the devs over in the Making games megathread is working on a game that pulses a shape into fractal patterns while it changes color. All set to the beat of whatever song you tell the program to play. It looks great, but its on the wrong side of the border that marks a health risk to me. This one is a slowburning damage dealer to me, but it could easily be much more harmful to other photosensitives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgtlZVvVkWI
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Jan 28, 2022 20:26
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I just had a fellow game tester post the absolutely best image ever. Seriously its like finding the Rosetta Stone for graphical effects on epilepsy. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/801110258608767017/951367166937141318/Denali_1965_Retrofit.png In itself the image doesn't hurt me, but it does get my defenses going. So this is absolutely perfect. It is the clearest still standing image I've yet to find that strikes the balance between "can point to bad times triggers" and "doesn't actually hurt me" I should probably stop gushing about it and start actually explaining it... okay so western reading practices are to start at the top left corner and read towards the right side. Looking at an image kinda/sorta works like that too. In this case, the left side has a hell of a lot of details and different lighting going on, while the center has almost the exact opposite. Right side has the details, but not the lighting I got no issues at all with the right side, the only issues I have with the center comes from the contrast provided by the left side. The detail level itself doesn't really do anything until you throw in multiple lighting sources. My brain spends ALOT of time trying to plot out the shadows cast by each lighting source and would easily be overwhelmed if this image was in motion (as I'm sure @TooMuchAbstraction recalls from the first edition of this effect). Now being overwhelmed is in itself still not a problem, just a lot of noise that needs a moment to get filtered. The problems start when they eyeball tracks inwards to the center, where the lighting is no longer intense, but my brain is still chewing through the processing part. This is a problem because the center now adds all the shadows to the left side's details (kinda like putting two colors of paint in the same container because you didn't move the first container away and the second container into place) This in turn causes a disconnect, where one part of the brain goes into a recursive loop trying to figure this out, while another part of the brain starts clogging up everything with error messages about two incompatible inputs happening. Non-epileptics would put the recursion on pause and handle the error messages first. Epileptics will handle everything in the chronological order it arrived in, meaning that we will check the error log once we are done infinitely generating them. As the problem persists, more resources are allocated with no filter for stuff like consciousness or life support.
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Mar 10, 2022 08:05
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Usually when I find something that causes bad times, I'm on a strict timer while trying to explain the flaw that causes the issue. Either I have to keep referencing the bad times generator (which is like staring at the sun and giving meaningful observations of the damage it causes to your eyes in real time) or I have to work off of faulty memory that gets more degraded the more information I try to extract from it. This picture bypasses all of that and gives me the time I need to actually study it. Goddamn this find just made my whole month
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Mar 10, 2022 08:15
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It's always nice to stumble across the perfect calibration standard.
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Mar 10, 2022 08:34
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It really is yeah. Even better since I'll be presenting all of my collection and notes on epilepsy triggers to my psychiatrist in about a week. So this popped up at the perfect time, giving me enough time to really study the thing and ponder all the details, without have so much time to spare that I postpone it until its way too late to do it properly.
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Mar 10, 2022 08:39
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This topic was an interesting read. I don't suffer from epilepsy, but due to having watched some speedrunning events featuring retro games probably older than me that have intense flashing effects, I've been aware for some time that I'm sensitive to those, potentially resulting in headaches, lightheadedness and mild nausea lasting for hours. In practice this has almost never been a problem for me outside of watching these old games - but the reason I ended up here is because of Genshin Impact, the free-to-play open-world action RPG which is currently one of the highest-grossing gacha games. I played the game for about three months with no problems, until I finally got to the game's most recently added region, Inazuma. The game's characters and regions are each themed after one from a specific set of elements, and Inazuma is themed after lightning (Electro) - you can probably see where this is going. The first thing that hosed me up was the thunderstorms - two areas in Inazuma are afflicted by near-perpetual thunder until cleared by doing certain quests. One of the two features lightning strikes targeting the player character's previous position with a slight delay - that area is optional, but I tried to use a fishing spot there once to get fish I could trade in for a cool weapon, and it turns out that while the game makes the player character invincible while in the fishing minigame, the lightning strikes on the character's position keep on coming at a rapid rate nonetheless, so you can imagine how well that went. The other area, important for the main quest, is almost always covered by a thunder- and rainstorm, and the scene constantly briefly lighting up from the flashes of lightning gave me issues. But I looked up and did the quest required to clear the thunderstorms out of the area even though completing it under those conditions was annoying, resolved to teleport to another region whenever Inazuma was having bad weather, and hoped that would be the end of it. Enter the game's latest high-rarity character: Yae Miko, whose's abilities revolve around... Calling down bolts of lightning from the sky at a high rate. I was aware that might pose an issue, so I didn't try to get her deliberately - I only spent a small amount of in-game currency to get a low-rarity character she came bundled with, but got "lucky" and got Yae anyway. So having gotten her, I looked up a video guide for advice on how to best use her, the guide featured footage of her lightning generators going full blast, and predictably, I got sick. After Yae, they moved on to a rerun for one of the most popular Electro characters in the game, Raiden. The flashes from the special attacks she has while her ultimate ability is active can likewise cause me issues. I know this because she's currently in about every loving video about the game in my Youtube feed. Is the video about an unrelated character? Showcase them with Raiden, because she's one of the most powerful and popular support characters and her banner is currently running. Really can't wait for them to move onto the next region and have gotten all the lightning out of their system. cranky corvid fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 13, 2022 |
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Mar 13, 2022 22:41
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yeah that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Lightning is one of the most frequent CGI effects to cause bad times for me, but at least its a very obvious kind of bad times trigger. Water effects, ice effects and subtly changing lights are usually just as bad if not worse than the lightning effects since they are more subtle, more likely to cover a larger area and much more likely to be a persistent thing through large parts of the game. Fire effects are usually quite safe, except when they are going for really high intensity stuff like magnesium fires or fireworks factory cooking off.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:32
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A recurring theme in all of this is that a lot of the tools that game developers know that create a big impact or that create non-tiling moving patterns are also the things that cause problems for epileptics. If you're using to approaching your VFX design with an attitude of "how do I make this as juicy as possible", then you're liable to create problems for some non-trivial fraction of your player base.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:56
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I can generally sympathize with devs on that though. It usually does look really cool even though it physically harms me. And its not like they make this stuff with the intention of harming me or even the knowledge that they are harming anyone.
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Mar 16, 2022 17:47
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Penny Arcade have a new fancy site that launched today. Every time I mouse over a button, a white flashing effect appears around the edge of the button. My epilepsy is not loving amused. I've sent them a polite mail asking them to please fix that, even offered to help play guinea pig as they tweak it to be safe if they insist on keeping it. If they just ignore me then I guess it is a lot easier to just cut their old rear end comic out of my life instead of trying to mess around with my browser enough to make their stupid poo poo not physically harmful to me.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:02
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I would have thought reading Penny arcade alone would be physically harmful enough even without the buttons flashing tbh.
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Mar 20, 2022 05:37
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Nah, that's mental scarring. This one is like being poked in the eyes.
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Mar 20, 2022 07:17
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Brought it up on Twitter and got a response from Gabe saying they're looking into it.
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Mar 20, 2022 13:45
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Oh nice! Thanks a bunch! Twitter is still foreign territory for me to understand, so I was down to sending an email and hoping for the best.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:44
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Thanks again for helping me contact Penny Arcade McNally. I got a response from Tycho saying that their dev guy had gotten to work on it immediately and that in the meantime I could go to my control panel and change a setting that turned off flashy bullshit on my end. That helped a ton. Now I'm just waiting to see how long it takes them to fix their poo poo, so it isn't going to harm any of the other 50 million epileptics out there, who haven't turned on that setting. For those interested in said control panel change, here is the directions that he sent me: https://twitter.com/TychoBrahe/status/1506520308601090051/photo/1 I can at least vouch for the Win 7 part working.
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Mar 23, 2022 18:27
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Turns out that Valve also don't know how to act around photo-sensitives. Their store page currently has a "fancy" banner going for their "Simfest". Don't know what it is about, but I do know that making me think they are trying to kill me is not a good way to convince me to spend money. It isn't super hurting me (yet, these things sometimes take 10 minutes before the full force of it comes at me, even after just watching it for a few seconds), but I am Not. loving. Amused.
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Mar 30, 2022 08:40
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Yup, here comes the nausea. This will take me a few hours to bounce back from. In the meantime I can't really brain good enough to do words at Valve. I've thrown a Twitter post at them and done a steam support ticket to a random part of their service, cause I can't really navigate their help maze right now. Not expecting much from them though.
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Mar 30, 2022 09:07
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Okay, apart from feeling lethargic and exhausted, I'm pretty much back to normal now. 2 hours of downtime from 2-4 seconds of looking at a promotional ad banner. Can't say I'm tempted to buy stuff from Steam right at this moment.
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Mar 30, 2022 10:31
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Why isn't there a visual advertising industry group that sets standards so that stuff like this doesn't keep happening? I've thrown a complaint at Valve as well, perhaps it helps. Also, that banner looks cheap as hell.
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Mar 30, 2022 11:01
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I appreciate the assistance in sending complaints at them. A visual advertising industry group would have to involve regulations and legislature across sickening amounts of nations for it to be worth the effort in the end. Those 50 million people are scattered all over the world and the best we'd likely end up getting would be something like the age recommendations/restrictions on movies and games that everyone ignores anyways. Right now the industry can claim that they've done all they could because all their services and products have a line hidden somewhere specifying that epileptics should stay away or take full responsibility for their own reckless behavior. I can't even say I blame them. Most people I've spoken to about today's issue have professed complete surprise that this thing was enough to mess me up. If you don't have epilepsy and the thing causing problems isn't actually sending people into full blown seizures that catch a lot of social media attention, then it didn't happen. Because that isn't what an epileptic seizure looks like to the vast majority of humanity.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:28
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Finally got a response from Steam support about their store page messing with my head: "Hi there - I'm really sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, we do not have any settings that would adjust this. I will send this feedback to our developers that work on the store so they are aware. I would also encourage you to post this feedback on the forums to see if there are any other users that are experiencing this. Official Steam Feedback Official Steam Help Steam Subreddit Again, I am sorry that we do not have a fix for you at this time. Best Regards, Jace" I marked the ticket as resolved after that, since it was quite clear to me that Support could do nothing to help me, other than what they have already done. I followed the link to the official steam feedback forum, and from skimming the first page of those 70k threads there, it really didn't feel like the proper place to put critical health issue threads. It also seemed like any thread made there would just disappear like a single droplet of piss in an ocean of vomit. I don't know if the promotion is still ongoing, not gonna go hunting for shotgun blasts to put myself in front of if they don't bother giving me more response than that. If someone here could let me know when that "Simfest" banner is gone from the steam store front page, I'd appreciate it. Until then, I guess I'm just not gonna be buying steam games without a direct link to a specific game.
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Apr 2, 2022 07:18
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SerthVarnee posted:Finally got a response from Steam support about their store page messing with my head: You'd think that they had better channels available to communicate stuff that's bad for people with epilepsy. If just out of commercial self interest of not losing customers like you. The banner is still there, and the promotion goes to April, 4th. So I'm reasonably certain that the banner will stay at least until that date.
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Apr 2, 2022 07:57
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