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dogstile posted:There is also a level where you break into what looks light a far right militia house Yeah, but at the same time you could say that it was based on Ruby Ridge which most right wingers consider the sole case of police misconduct in history. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:...maybe that is a reason to look closely at the plot because that sounds like the devs are just hosed up That was mostly a joke, but at the same time what am I going to do about it, I already bought the game and I'm not going to do it again or encourage others to. I gave it a pass when it came out because the developers aren't American and I didn't think they would be Like That as a result, but I was clearly wrong. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 20:01
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The ruby ridge cabin guy is ex-not-cia and is connected to the crazy lady cult in Carriers of the Vine who are themselves connected to the auction shipping container. I guess I don't know enough Q freak lore to know what their opinion on the CIA is but I'm assuming they're not wild about any federal agency.CuddleCryptid posted:That was mostly a joke, but at the same time what am I going to do about it, I already bought the game and I'm not going to do it again or encourage others to. I gave it a pass when it came out because the developers aren't American and I didn't think they would be Like That as a result, but I was clearly wrong. I mean, agreed. I just personally find it very funny. It's so stupid and unnecessary. And the game is still fun. It still feels like a SWAT game when I'm playing it...even if I'm getting lit up by insane AI halfway across the map Steak fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 20:08
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The ai in this game has always been ridiculous I think we are more playing a toned down version lol. At least your guys aren’t totally useless now even if I still have barely idea what I’m doing each mission and still can’t find the last fricken suspect/civilian
Cabal Ties fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 00:43
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Honestly, I think there's just too much front-end bloat for me to get back into this game right now. You try a mission, you're into it, having a good time -- then it respawns you outside the cop shop, you need to walk to the briefing room (while the frame rate judders), then tit about with your tablet, then walk to the armoury, individually equip your lads, then wait ten seconds (for some reason) before it even starts to load the level... I keep finding myself [Alt][F4ing] and going to play something else instead of going through that rigmarole between attempts. Everything you need to do (in single player) prior to a mission could be done from a single-screen menu instead, and tbh I wish it was. That aspect was bad enough before, but 1.0 has made it twice as slow. Maybe I'm just bad with delayed gratification, idk. At least you don't have to walk back from the kit room to the briefing desk to ready-up anymore, I suppose.
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Dec 20, 2023 13:29
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Pipski posted:Honestly, I think there's just too much front-end bloat for me to get back into this game right now. You try a mission, you're into it, having a good time -- then it respawns you outside the cop shop, you need to walk to the briefing room (while the frame rate judders), then tit about with your tablet, then walk to the armoury, individually equip your lads, then wait ten seconds (for some reason) before it even starts to load the level... I keep finding myself [Alt][F4ing] and going to play something else instead of going through that rigmarole between attempts. Everything you need to do (in single player) prior to a mission could be done from a single-screen menu instead, and tbh I wish it was. That aspect was bad enough before, but 1.0 has made it twice as slow. Maybe I'm just bad with delayed gratification, idk. At least you don't have to walk back from the kit room to the briefing desk to ready-up anymore, I suppose. Agreed. There is something lonely about playing single player and shuffling around the station as you get ready for the mission. It’s clearly designed for multiplayer but I would have preferred a menu screen to arm and manage your team for the single player campaign.
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Dec 20, 2023 13:50
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Dandywalken posted:I hear the devs are Australian... Nothing worse than foreigners cosplaying MAGA. This game always came off grimy as poo poo IMO. I was on the fence when this went 1.0 but glad I held off
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Dec 20, 2023 15:03
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Eww, I can't play a cop game where I shoot human traffickers, pedophiles, and drug dealers while there's an implied connection to real world conspiracy theorists. That is a bridge too far
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Dec 20, 2023 16:56
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Moonshine Rhyme posted:Eww, I can't play a cop game where I shoot human traffickers, pedophiles, and drug dealers while there's an implied connection to real world conspiracy theorists. That is a bridge too far Do you still think the jews are trying to take your guns away from you or have you moved past anti-semitism?
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Dec 20, 2023 18:27
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Steak posted:Do you still think the jews are trying to take your guns away from you or have you moved past anti-semitism? What would the progression past anti-Semitism be? The ghilli suit cabin the woods dude?
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Dec 20, 2023 19:30
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Whats the discord for this? The one in the op ain't working. I might need some folk to play with.
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Dec 22, 2023 04:07
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https://discord.gg/airgoons Edited OP. Here it is. Random games of RoN pop up all the time but biggest is Wednesday night 2100 eastern Tacticool night. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 04:17
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Vahakyla posted:https://discord.gg/airgoons Cheers, gonna look forward to that, joined the group.
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Dec 22, 2023 05:23
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Turning "Carriers of the Vine" into something out of an A24 movie sure was an interesting design choice. 
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Dec 30, 2023 19:07
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Upstairs on the postal level. Flashbang landed at the perps feet and went off right next to him. Dude didn't even react and shot me in the head as we breached. Took an AI mod to beat that level.
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Dec 30, 2023 23:24
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Shotguns https://streamable.com/x0juxd Suck https://streamable.com/yj047x Terminator laser aimbot AI is defeated by liberal over-application of riot shields. It's how me and my friends have been clearing every map after trying all other strategies. CS is the next best option, but only if you literally bring 6+ nades and launchers each and methodically gas every square inch of a level to surrender them while they cry - just be careful because they see through the clouds flawlessly while you're blind inside them.
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Jan 2, 2024 10:08
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You're using presumably buckshot against people with body armor. Of course unless you're hitting them in their limbs or head it ain't gonna do poo poo. Get a real gun
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Jan 2, 2024 15:47
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gently caress SNEEP posted:You're using presumably buckshot against people with body armor. Of course unless you're hitting them in their limbs or head it ain't gonna do poo poo. Get a real gun Sorry but you're not taking 3 shots to the chest and just flexing out of it.
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Jan 3, 2024 00:20
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At that range its gonna knock the wind out of you at a minimum. If anything gets around the armour its still going to hurt. You'll probably break a rib. I couldn't imagine anyone taking three and immediately blasting back. But then again even the lowest tier enemies are happy to take a couple of actual bullets then fire back.
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Jan 3, 2024 13:27
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Suspects responding to being shot with rifles and shotguns in absolutely ridiculous ways is just carrying on that vanilla SWAT 4 legacy
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Jan 3, 2024 13:41
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DarkDobe posted:Sorry but you're not taking 3 shots to the chest and just flexing out of it. No you don't get it, it's body armor, it stops bullets. That means it stops them from hitting you. Haven't you seen Dune?
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Jan 3, 2024 14:22
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CuddleCryptid posted:No you don't get it, it's body armor, it stops bullets. That means it stops them from hitting you. Haven't you seen Dune? Sorry I keep being tricked into thinking this game is trying to be realistic! Orv posted:Suspects responding to being shot with rifles and shotguns in absolutely ridiculous ways is just carrying on that vanilla SWAT 4 legacy This really makes me wish they leveraged something beyond basic-rear end animations and actually did kinetic transfer and invers-kinematics so that you could literally knock people down/off balance. It's not like the engine can't already do this. Instead you can shoot a dude 4 times in the knee with .300 blackout and have him just stand there, unfazed, until you break past the magic 'hit points' number and he suddenly instantly dies. DarkDobe fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 00:04
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I think that there's some balance issues that goes into not having fully "realistic" weapons because full realism means shooting someone anywhere with essentially anything and having them go down. It would make TTK so incredibly short that they would have to balance it around you also having a similar TTK and it would become *extremely* tedious to play. Otherwise you end up with suspects getting clipped with one round of a 30 round burst and going down permanently while cops (who are wearing the same body armor) keep trudging along being held up by Truth Justice and The American Way.
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Jan 4, 2024 02:29
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Man, Carriers of the Vine kinda makes me not wanna play anymore. Sure, the enemies here tend to surrender decently readily, but they're still shooting like loving spec ops snipers and sooner or later you're gonna have to clear that courtyard and gardens. Not to mention there's dozens of them and they'll happily start roaming around in areas you've cleared. It's worse than loving Ides of March, that one at least had a decently controllable layout and no horrendous performance issues. e: Finally managed it, RIP to those two named suspects. By comparison the hospital right after was downright easymode, ran through that first try. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 19:47
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CuddleCryptid posted:I think that there's some balance issues that goes into not having fully "realistic" weapons because full realism means shooting someone anywhere with essentially anything and having them go down. It would make TTK so incredibly short that they would have to balance it around you also having a similar TTK and it would become *extremely* tedious to play. Otherwise you end up with suspects getting clipped with one round of a 30 round burst and going down permanently while cops (who are wearing the same body armor) keep trudging along being held up by Truth Justice and The American Way. Fair. If this was aiming to be realistic, the SWAT team would be 20+ dudes, every room would get flashbanged (and they'd actually work), etc. Or they'd cut power and pump CS into the entire building before doing the prior.
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Jan 4, 2024 20:26
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Do the bad guys really have the same armour values as a full kitted out swat dude? Swat guys wearing full cover steel or ceramic armour VS baddies with kevlar vests, the baddies should absolutely be down or at the very least wounded and surrending when shot. Pistol wounds should cause damage and a surrender response but not kill (at least not first shot if it's not centre mass or head shot) Rifle should kill or completely incapacitate - terminal ballistics of Rifle rounds are pretty nasty and shatter bones, shred tissue etc. Even in steel armour it's broken ribs and the wind knocked out of you. The AI mods that tweak the enemy make a huge difference and feel more 'realistic' than the stock RoN who shrug off flashbangs and keep fighting despite being hit with 556.
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Jan 10, 2024 22:55
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout In the great north Hollywood shootout, it took dozens of cops and thousands of rounds of ammo to stop two sickos wearing homemade armor.
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Jan 12, 2024 00:12
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Sanzuo posted:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout Yeah, 38 special revolvers and buckshot don't do much to body armour - base level kevlar is designed specifically for that, even home made (which was probably steel plate) . Hence my comment on high velocity rounds from AR pattern rifles and the like. Pretty sure the cops at one point rushed to a local gun shop and started grabbing rifles too because 38's were doing nothing. Also the aftermath is why swat and then police started using 556. Swat had 9mm smgs at that point also, which doesn't do much to armour. Those two guys were also essentially Michelin men COVERED in armour head to leg.
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Jan 12, 2024 00:40
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There's maybe a handful of missions where the suspects' accuracy and bullet sponginess and refusal to surrender has any sort of plausibility. But the rest of the time I'm supposed to believe that petty gangsters and crooked rent-a-cops are not only expert shots but have a fight-to-the-death fanaticism for no discernible reason. They should feel like different encounters but they don't.
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Jan 12, 2024 00:56
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I agree. It's also my complaint that the enemies in this game seem like they are hopped up on super pcp or something. I tried bringing along a 9mm smg specifically so it wouldn't kill. Just make them surrender after getting all shot up. But no. So many enemies in this game seem modeled after those two.
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Jan 12, 2024 03:22
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This entire game feels like someone watched Clintons "superpredator" speech from the 90's and took it seriously. Someone robbing a gas station shouldn't be running towards SWAT and trying to Rambo them because they heard gunfire, at least not to the degree and frequency most suspects do. Who the hell is pulling a knife on SWAT over a streamer's bitcoin mining server?
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Jan 12, 2024 03:52
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Sorry guys the tactical police action game level is canceled, the devs wanted to model realism so the criminals just ran away when the first cops showed up.
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Jan 12, 2024 04:00
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CuddleCryptid posted:Sorry guys the tactical police action game level is canceled, the devs wanted to model realism so the criminals just ran away when the first cops showed up. You joke but “hostile suspects retreat, take hostages, or take cover before engaging your team” would be way more interesting than just getting immediately aimbotted through a tiny angle as soon as they see you.
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Jan 12, 2024 06:04
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also a really underwhelming mission in terms of "action" is one of the most celebrated of swat 4, the fairfax residence
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Jan 12, 2024 08:02
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gazza posted:There's maybe a handful of missions where the suspects' accuracy and bullet sponginess and refusal to surrender has any sort of plausibility. But the rest of the time I'm supposed to believe that petty gangsters and crooked rent-a-cops are not only expert shots but have a fight-to-the-death fanaticism for no discernible reason. They should feel like different encounters but they don't. B-b-b-but if you only read the tiny text on this laptop screen in one of the offices, you can see that they're all part of the big super-pedo conspiracy ring! It makes perfect sense guys! 
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Jan 12, 2024 10:16
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causticBeet posted:You joke but “hostile suspects retreat, take hostages, or take cover before engaging your team” would be way more interesting than just getting immediately aimbotted through a tiny angle as soon as they see you. To an extent, but again there are contrivances around that. It doesn't make sense for random robbers to take multiple shots to put down or for them to be fairly accurate, but also it doesn't make sense for there to be ten of them knocking over a single gas station, or taking hostages in the station, or anything else that would justify SWAT hard breaching the place. Some things have to be altered or else you'd only be going after hardened criminals that are willing to throw down with the cops, who *would* have the gear and will. As HO5 said above, the most memorable level in SWAT4 was you just doing a high risk warrant service on a single person in his mother's basement...tunnel complex, a level that essentially only has him and (I think) one other shooter in it. That's the vast majority of SWAT actions, serving warrants to a single person who may or may not have a gun. So when we're blowing in the doorway to a hail of gunfire it's already in the realm of unreality. Yeah it's goofy but it is a video game. There is also the engine limitation that if suspects were able to correctly take cover then crowd control measures like flashbangs would be practically useless in most areas. Rainbow Six: Siege had that issue where you can play T-Hunt and bang a room just to end up getting shot anyways because someone was crouching behind a counter when you threw it. That's not really an excuse for the devs but I can understand why most suspects are kind of just milling around when the cops are blowing doors two rooms away. I mean the most "realistic" level in this game is probably the school shooter one and it's already out there because four or five people don't usually shoot up a school together. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jan 12, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 14:30
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gazza posted:There's maybe a handful of missions where the suspects' accuracy and bullet sponginess and refusal to surrender has any sort of plausibility. But the rest of the time I'm supposed to believe that petty gangsters and crooked rent-a-cops are not only expert shots but have a fight-to-the-death fanaticism for no discernible reason. They should feel like different encounters but they don't. Agree 100%. Because of this I find the 1.0 release of this game extremely underwhelming, on top of the removal of multiple game modes for different maps and the addition of the teammate management aspect that just bogs the game down. AI for suspects was always a rough spot for this game but it seems like actually got worse compared to early access, which I’ve owned pretty much since it was available. SWAT 4 (especially with the excellent Elite Force mod) still has way more interesting suspect encounters.
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Jan 12, 2024 14:56
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One issue for me is that the range of NPC types seem to have been significantly flattened. At this point it's either a civilian, who tend to surrender immediately, or a suspect, who will usually loving fight to the death with spec ops tier accuracy unless you pile on a boatload of morale effects. There's generally very little ambiguity when dealing with an NPC, either they surrender in a couple of seconds or they're about to open fire. While that does have the arguable advantage of making rounds more reliable, it also turns it into much more of a regular old shooter with the main difference that you gotta wait for your enemies to give you an excuse.BONESTORM posted:Agree 100%. Because of this I find the 1.0 release of this game extremely underwhelming, on top of the removal of multiple game modes for different maps and the addition of the teammate management aspect that just bogs the game down. One particular difference I've noticed compared to EA is that nobody ever seems to run away anymore once confronted. Civilians at most just kinda amble around, and suspects only seem take a few steps back and forth looking for cover. I had a few occasions in EA where NPCs would sometimes just kinda turn around and book it, which immediately put you on the spot having to make a decision and generally made things more interesting.
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Jan 12, 2024 15:47
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Perestroika posted:One particular difference I've noticed compared to EA is that nobody ever seems to run away anymore once confronted. Civilians at most just kinda amble around, and suspects only seem take a few steps back and forth looking for cover. I had a few occasions in EA where NPCs would sometimes just kinda turn around and book it, which immediately put you on the spot having to make a decision and generally made things more interesting. Honestly it's less interesting to have them stand and fight but I found them running to be extremely annoying. It's why I still bring a lot of door wedges in every level and slowly bar off parts of the map because I had too many instances in EA where someone would run and then I had to search the *entire* map for them after everything else was cleared out. You technically have the option to chase them, but running blind into a room to catch them is suicide 99% of the time.
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Jan 12, 2024 15:52
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They definitely still run. Typically you pop them before they have a chance to though because of how laser accurate they are so you don't wanna give em the chance.
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Jan 12, 2024 16:12
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I would like the game to be less shooter death machine and more tactics and alternative tactics actually doing something.
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Jan 12, 2024 17:52
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