|
I'm working on a Dragon themed reanimator EDH deck and how rude is it to put in the Worldgorger Dragon + Animate Dead combo in to use with Inferno of the Star Mounts? I haven't played a lot of EDH players so I don't know what the etiquette is for potential infinite mana loop combos. As long as I don't draw the game it's fine right?
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 07:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:37 |
|
|
How obvious is it in setting it up, is it the only wincon you're putting in to win the game? And if you were playing against it would you even want to play against it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 08:48
|
|
|
Jiro posted:How obvious is it in setting it up, is it the only wincon you're putting in to win the game? And if you were playing against it would you even want to play against it? Well I'm not sure what it means for it to be obvious, I'd say its pretty obvious once Worldgorger Dragon is discarded what the end-game is; but it doesn't win on its own as its only 20 damage; doing it twice requires a bit more setup (some means of returning Animate Dead to my hand), assumes no one counterspells it, etc. My personal opinion its the same kind of timer win-con of any other deck where "Okay I got X turns before they hit me with it, gotta win before then." just as it is with Eldrazi or whatever no? In any case while I was building my deck I actually discarded the reanimator concept and built my deck around a strategy that I think synnergizes better with Kaalia the Vast and is a little more focused on my main goal; overwhelming people with Dragons!  :sarkhan:Deck list, I'd appreciate any feedback on how to improve it to be more competitive: code:I got a bunch of dragons who have enter play or activated abilities to give me responses; and multiple win conditions based on what order I get dragons out. Is the enemy putting up a stubborn defence? I got Dragons who can do board clear or target specific peskies. My main win condition is pumping out tokens, lots of tokens, did they kill some dragons? Bladewing the Risen can bring em' back. I got dragons who make Treasures which help produce mana, I got a dragon who lets me store mana between turns, can I generate 20 red mana and deal 20 damage? Who knows but I got a dragon who can do it! Need more mana? I got a dragon that can fetch my accelerators. Zodiak Dragon also doesn't stay dead either, comes back to my hand as needed! And a 8/8! Am I out of cards in my hand? Dragon Mage's got me covered. Do I need more health? Goldie's got lifelink! Enemy got an artifact that's ruining my day? I got a Dragon for that who can melt it into slag. Dragons. The flex tape of EDH. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 09:08
|
|
|
Is your plan to just magically draw exactly the dragons you need when you need them? You have like no interaction. Little ramp, and a ton of lands. Personally I run interaction so I don’t give a poo poo about worldgorger combo, most of the times it’s been played against me the player lost all his permanents.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 10:02
|
|
|
pseudanonymous posted:Is your plan to just magically draw exactly the dragons you need when you need them? I'm not sure what you mean by little ramp, there's like 12 mana accelerator artifacts, Sarkhan who gives +2 mana and my commander is Kaalia. Chances seem pretty good to me that I'll have the mana when I need it; and most guides online suggest between 33 and 42 lands; don't think it's all that many. The idea is something akin to Soviet Deep Battle doctrine but applied to EDH but with Dragons instead of tanks; the idea isn't to have a specific Dragon in play, its to leverage the Dragons I do get and push them out into play and to maintain a sort of tempo of reliably being able to bring out dragons and then depending on which kinds of dragons come out tailor my decision making around them. But if I need a specific Dragon I do have at least a couple of ways of searching. e: And to clarify since it seems like I forgot to mention and it might not be obvious from the card list, the main thrust of the strategy here is that there's two main forms of interaction; there's Dragons/permanents who have effects when other Dragons come into play or depending on the number of Dragons already in play; then there's Dragon token generation as I have a variety of cards who produce Dragon tokens. So mainly my goal is to produce a lot of Dragons basically; as a side bonus them coming into play or existing plays off of the abilities of other dragons/cards and having dragons in play have other affects interactions with cards in my hand. For situational circumstances I also have a variety of dragons who have situational effects as a bonus. I'm not expecting to be able to use a specific Dragon, but I do expect to be playing and swinging with Dragons. As I alluded to there's also Treasure token producing dragons for additional mana production so some aspects of the deck aren't obvious until you look at their interactions. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Jan 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 10:24
|
|
|
This looks perfectly fine for a casual Kaalia dragons set up but you definitely have some very strange/extremely dated card choices. A) 40+ lands is just too many for anything besides a dedicated landfall deck, even when you’re flooded with 7+ drops. The two heuristics for a mana base in Commander I use are 1: 30 Lands + your Commander’s MV and/or 2: start with 40 lands and subtract 1 for every two pieces of ramp. So with that goal in mind I would be shooting for 34-36 lands with 12-14 pieces of ramp B) Your ramp suite is confusing because you’re running the best ramp ever but also some of the worst ramp ever. Cut Sphere, Relic, Monolith, Mind’s Eye, Staff of Nin and about 5-6 lands and go ahead and add the 3 talismans and the 3 signets to your deck. C) I respect your theme but some of your dragons are unplayably bad or next to useless. Velomachus only hits like 5 cards in your deck currently, that’s not worth a slot. Verix Bladewing literally doesn’t work with your commander, it’s just a 4 drop that gets cheated into play a different 4 drop unless you spend 7 mana to make a Broodmate Dragon (which is a card that exists and only costs 6), and the other bladewing is a French vanilla flyer with no abilities, a waste of a card slot. Literally every creature in your deck is a giant flying lizard, you don’t need to run a dragon that is JUST a giant flying lizard. I’ve cut Hoarding dragon from a lot of decks because it’s only really good if you’ve got your sac outlet online and set up. I have never in my life seen someone cast or even sleeve up Scour from existence but Good God you don’t have to run that card! Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Fire Civenant, Anguished Unmaking, Bedevil, Wear//Tear, Vanishing Verse, Despark, and even Vindicate are all cards strongly worthy of consideration and deserve to see play well before Scour should even enter your mind’s eye. D) Some suggestions for this set up would be Dragon Tempest Lightning Greaves Minion of the Mighty Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jan 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 14:00
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:Dragons. The flex tape of EDH. Kaalia decks work best when you can give Kaalia haste. That's really the only time they're a threat because otherwise, Kaalia is just a target for every cheap removal spell in the game. Beyond the removal and ramp suite, cards you're missing that aren't dragons (some of which have already been mentioned): Dragon Tempest Orb of Dragonkind Lightning Greaves Dragonspeaker Shaman Dragonlord's Servant Haven of the Spirit Dragon
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 17:18
|
|
|
"No interaction" isn't a constructive comment to someone who has interaction in their deck. It's just confusing, and lazy. It's fair enough to say "not enough interaction" or "suboptimal interaction" or "interaction I wouldn't be using" or straight up "bad interaction," but don't say there's no interaction when there plainly is. As for ramp: Bust Rodd is right about mana rocks. 2 CMC mana rocks are the current norm for ramp in colors that aren't green. The idea is, in non-cEDH metas, most players are usually spending the first two turns just playing lands and ramping. Turn three (if not sooner) is when more interesting stuff starts happening. There's more than enough 2 CMC rocks across all colors that you never have to run a 3+ CMC rock ever again. Even better, for those of us on a budget, most of them are plentiful enough to be affordable. Here's the 2 CMC rocks in a nutshell: ***Arcane Signet*** ***Fellwar Stone*** ***Signets (two color cycle)*** ***Talismans (two color cycle)*** ***Mind Stone*** ***Thought Vessel*** Liquidmetal Torque Diamonds (one color cycle) Coldsteel Heart Prismatic Lens Star Compass Sphere of the Suns Fractured Powerstone There's also a cycle of Myr mana dorks for 2 CMC. Even a monocolored deck has enough mana rocks to run 10+ including Sol Ring. 3+ CMC rocks are generally too slow to be worthwhile unless you can cheat extra value/recursion of out of something like Commander Sphere's sacrifice ability.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 18:49
|
|
|
Railing Kill posted:Here's the 2 CMC rocks in a nutshell: I would add Everflowing Chalice, Guardian Idol (relevant body for some decks), and probably the Medallions for mono-color decks. I also value Torque over Thought Vessel a lot because it turns on some removal.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 19:09
|
|
|
I keep looking at Liquimetal Torque & Shenanigans like… “is this good?” It seems like a pretty decent grinding engine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 19:14
|
|
|
5C Allies: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9uC5htLDFUu8_aLag0tPsw Looking to add about five more creatures to this and then fill out the lands. Thoughts? Very basic? Not a tribe worth bothering with? Any obvious swaps I should make? Toss in a Triumph of the Horde? E: It just struck me that I actually just tossed cards in there and didn't even look at my colors when it came to what mana rocks to even bother with. Whatever, consider it a very rough draft.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 20:04
|
|
|
I cracked full arts of Rhoda and Timin so I guess I'm building a tapdown tribal Azorius deck 
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 20:08
|
|
|
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll take a look! As for Rorix and so on, these cards happened to have a soft spot in my heart as my first IRL Legendary Dragon, and Rorix is haste so he can swing when he drops; and if he's got brothers I gotta bring them along to or else his mother will complain!  And also my logic was "Sometimes I am not going to have Kaalia, but maybe late enough in the game to have the mana to pay the 7 mana for Verix and the kicker for his brother".Velomachus to me was "This guy has haste and vigilance!" while also has synergy with Kaalia. So it seems to me if I add more sorceries/instants they should be better? For hoarding dragon I assumed it'll die because its a flyer on the board but I suppose I should shy away from Ryuusei/Kokusho type of dragons who only are useful when dying vs those with activated abilities or attack abilities. I just grabbed Scour at random as a "I guess there's something on the field I really need gone" response. I'll check out the other removal options you mention. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 20:32
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:I would add Everflowing Chalice, Guardian Idol (relevant body for some decks), and probably the Medallions for mono-color decks. I also value Torque over Thought Vessel a lot because it turns on some removal. Dana from edhrec had a very recent article suggesting the medallions might make sense to include in two color decks as well. Food for thought
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 20:58
|
|
|
I wish that Torque could hit loving lands
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
I run both of the white and blue medallions in my Azorius deck. I went really hard on the cost reduction angle rather than ramp since those colors are bad at ramping but they're hungry for colored mana (white especially, many white spells have at least two pips.) I really think they're generally superior to most Mana rocks. They lose potency at higher numbers of colors, but in a 1-2 color deck I am always happy to see them. If I can get both out it's effectively knocking off a commander tax which can itself be a big deal.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
Batterypowered7 posted:5C Allies: You're missing Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Birthing Boughs for consistent ally dumps. Also, some useful changelings: -Unsettled Mariner -Shapesharer -Masked Vandal -Realmwalker -Graveshifter -Morophon
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 21:34
|
|
|
AlternateNu posted:You're missing Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Birthing Boughs for consistent ally dumps. Also, some useful changelings: I went with Maskwood Nexus instead of Birthing Boughs (I've been editing the list so I'm not sure if it was in there when you looked) and somehow forgot about Gideon. Added: Masked Vandal Realmwalker Ghostway, Eerie Interlude, Semester's End Dauntless Escort (though Selfless Spirit might just be better for the same effect at one less mana) Thinking about : Turntimber Ranger is cute with Maskwood Nexus out, but I don't really think it's enough to justify playing it. Retreat to Emeria doesn't feel like it adds enough value so I omitted it. How many lands I'll want since I have ten, two-cmc mana rocks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 21:59
|
|
|
Grevlek posted:Dana from edhrec had a very recent article suggesting the medallions might make sense to include in two color decks as well. Food for thought There certainly exist 2-color decks where they make sense, but it gets down to counting generic Mana costs. Same way that the Invasion familiars could be relevant to certain 3-color decks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2022 23:49
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:There certainly exist 2-color decks where they make sense, but it gets down to counting generic Mana costs. Same way that the Invasion familiars could be relevant to certain 3-color decks. I know at least one turd lurking this thread who has the bant one in Arcades and it works for more than nostalgia.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 01:34
|
|
|
Grevlek posted:I know at least one turd lurking this thread who has the bant one in Arcades and it works for more than nostalgia. Well, the Bant one is a wall, so it fits in Arcades because it replaces itself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 11:53
|
|
|
I'm thinking of picking up a few recent commander precons to play with my partner. She's never played Magic, I've played a bunch of Arena before but don't own any physical cards. We play A:NR together already but she finds the decision-space complexity in that game a bit overwhelming sometimes if she's not totally switched on, so looking for something a little bit more relaxed. Thing is we'd likely be playing mostly 1v1. I know commander decks are designed primarily for multiplayer, but they still seem like a good option since - it'd be nice to be able to try the proper multiplayer game with the same decks if we have friends over or whatever - I know some precons might be imbalanced against each other in 1v1, but if we get a few different decks hopefully most of the matchups should be at least okay? - having a few cards designed for multiplayer and overcosted/useless in 1v1 shouldn't really be that big a deal if we're just playing super casually? Seems like the main alternative options would be getting some Challenger decks (easy to pick up and play, but worried they'd get stale much faster just due to their consistency) or just getting a bunch of boosters to play some kind of limited or kitchen-table cobbled together decks (not so easy to pick up and play, and I guess I don't mind drafting but tend to find actual games of limited are often kind of boring anyway). Am I missing something that'd make 1v1 commander way less fun than I'm hoping or should it be OK?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 14:01
|
|
|
I can recommend the Osgir & Prosper Tomebkund precons as being really great Out of the Box precons that are roughly the same power level. My best friend and I jammed a lot of those games. The new Vampire Precon is pretty good too!
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 14:34
|
|
|
Did they make some Brawl precons? I think that was a 1v1 format and deck power should be lower because that format was meant to be Standard Commander. Decks are also only 60 cards instead of 100. Maybe start there?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 14:35
|
|
|
The Brawl precons are pretty impossible to find but also they are dogshit for balance. Korvald and Chulane are two of the strongest creatures printed in the last decade and Alela and Sir Gwyn see almost no play. I would avoid those products entirely IMO.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 14:42
|
|
|
The Elven Empire precon is pretty simple to pick up and use, just Elf Tribal in Golgari in two colors, if you want more of a tutorial in a precon that fixates itself on keywords, the Symbiotic Swarm precon from the Ikoria set will definitely do that and is decent in a 1v1 settling, the Naya colored precon that has Ghired just popping out 5/5 Rhino tokens and populating mechanic is decent as well. The Dimir Zendikar Rising precon can get pretty mean on it's own, but is good at introducing a bunch of fun rogue mechanics along with what those two colors can do together.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 16:22
|
|
|
Still kinda wanting to grab the Prosper precon, the Quandrix Precon, the Bant Equips precon, and the Silverquill precon myself. Since I'm thinking about converting my very battlecruiser Queen Marchesa deck into a more high-power "treasures matter" deck, the Silverquill deck looks like it will quite happily fill in its role. Inkshield looks like an absolutely nuts card in a very, very, very slow pod.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 18:12
|
|
|
Framboise posted:Still kinda wanting to grab the Prosper precon, the Quandrix Precon, the Bant Equips precon, and the Silverquill precon myself. Somewhere out there Sheldon is suddenly very happy and doesn't quite know why.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
I use Felisa as a commander and Inkshield is especially great with her. Tons of Inklings
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 18:22
|
|
|
Heath posted:I use Felisa as a commander and Inkshield is especially great with her. Tons of Inklings Bingo. Inkling tribal, pump the deck full of anthems, swing out. That or do some Skullclamp shenanigans with them. It's not my preferred way to play commander by any means whatsoever, but it will probably be the best way to have a casual deck on hand to play if needed that I won't hate playing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 18:27
|
|
|
Framboise posted:Still kinda wanting to grab the Prosper precon, the Quandrix Precon, the Bant Equips precon, and the Silverquill precon myself. The Silverquil precon is all about politics and I don't see my friends enough to warrant to upgrade it. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
AQE posted:Well, the Bant one is a wall, so it fits in Arcades because it replaces itself. Grevlek posted:I know at least one turd lurking this thread who has the bant one in Arcades and it works for more than nostalgia. RE-Precons: the Aesi one is good fun and you can be as Timmy as you want with big giant creatures while still drawing cards and ramping.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 19:18
|
|
|
Good to note that Felisa triggers off of any counters. I run Icatian Moneychanger in my deck and my friends laughed at it until I got him out turn 1 and Mentored him and then sacked him at my upkeep, gained a ton of life and he exploded into a thousand (tapped ) Inklings
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
Heath posted:Good to note that Felisa triggers off of any counters. I run Icatian Moneychanger in my deck and my friends laughed at it until I got him out turn 1 and Mentored him and then sacked him at my upkeep, gained a ton of life and he exploded into a thousand (tapped Hahaha holy poo poo
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 20:55
|
|
|
Railing Kill posted:Hahaha holy poo poo I ran into a moneychanger in my meager pile of cards I had from my childhood, and now there is an actual place to play it? Sign me up! I was thinking about the brief discussion of the planeshift familiars, and they might be really good for lower powered tables? They only have the color identity of their casting cost, so you might be able to fit 3 of them into a deck and get multiple medallion effects over a few bodies. It seems like a 3 color-shard deck might as well play at least the one that gives you two medallion effects on a body for 1/40th the cost of both medallions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 21:54
|
|
|
By 'a thousand' do you mean 'five', or is there a piece of the puzzle i'm missing?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 22:13
|
|
|
The familiars are really good and are ridiculously underplayed in edh for some reason
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 22:24
|
|
|
Ignite Memories posted:By 'a thousand' do you mean 'five', or is there a piece of the puzzle i'm missing? I am exaggerating for effect. But he just sits there and accrues counters easily and people tend to ignore him. He has become an exile target under Felisa now. If you have other ways to put counters on him (even Ikoria keyword counters, etc.) he has a built in sac outlet (only at upkeep, but still) and can provide a small army of Inklings. It's not a high power card by any means but people tend to underestimate how quickly he builds up if you get him out early. Even if he only makes it one round you can sac him for 3 Inklings on your next upkeep. Edit: basically if you get him out turn 1 he starts with 3 counters. If you get Felisa out on turn 4, he's got 6. Sac him at your next upkeep, he'll have 7 counters, you gain 7 life and make 7 Inklings. They are tapped, but for an investment of 1 Mana and 3 life, that's not bad to churn out 7 fliers. Being 0 power helps with Mentor triggers too Heath fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 22:41
|
|
|
Heath posted:I am exaggerating for effect. But he just sits there and accrues counters easily and people tend to ignore him. He has become an exile target under Felisa now. If you have other ways to put counters on him (even Ikoria keyword counters, etc.) he has a built in sac outlet (only at upkeep, but still) and can provide a small army of Inklings. Yeah honestly dude you don't have to defend it, it seems like a really decent card in that deck  Have some sort of altar effect waiting for those inklings and baby you got a stew going.I'm really starting to think I'm gonna get like 10x of the planeshift familiars here. Looking over the top 20 commanders, they seem reasonable in Kenrith, Korvold, Alela, Chulane, Kess, and Arcades. They are absolute slam dunks in Arcades and Korvold, like you can get Korvold out turn 3 with something to sac ( the familiar ) without a penny spent on fast mana. Grevlek fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jan 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 23:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:37 |
|
|
Silhouette posted:The familiars are really good and are ridiculously underplayed in edh for some reason Kediss is really good, he's in a comp deck. You can also use him with infect to kill all your opponents at once with a one-punch deck, which I think is pretty funny. The rest are ok. I thought it would be fun to make a deck with five color commanders matter using the friends forever with Eleven and Mike to play all the familiars. And maybe a bunch of the lieutenants too and all the "if you commander" and "commnaders you" and # of times you cast your commander cards. But I woudln't say they are particularly good. Esior is nice in that you can get him out before an important commander and your commander comes out with Ward. Anara and Keleth are meh, Falthis you could use to give a pinger commander deathtouch which would be obnoxious, but I don't know if its "good".
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2022 23:25
|
|