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Joe Chill posted:This conversation reminds of an alien in Cosmic Encounter called the Sniveler, which is parody of the kind of player that complains about losing: CE rules that said one of the most recent times i played ce one of the new players didn't get it and Was Not Having Fun, so we gave it one more round and called it and then instituted a 3 alien choice when we play now and they've had a better time since mikeycp fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 18, 2024 |
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Apr 18, 2024 22:12
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| # ? May 2, 2024 01:30 |
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The only time when I quit a game in the middle of it was when I was playing Machi Koro with one of the expansions and most of the dice rolls that anyone rolled meant that I would be losing money. At that stage I was like "Sorry, I'm not enjoying this" and quit, which thankfully didn't affect anyone else in the game really. I also feel pretty confident about calling Machi Koro a bad game for this.
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Apr 18, 2024 22:14
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machi koro can be very fun, but it can also be very not fun it's also not at all a problem in it if someone dips, for which i give it credit
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Apr 18, 2024 22:16
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My first experience of JohnCon2e: - Wow what an incredibly designed game - Hey I'm actually doing pretty well - Oh I rolled low, sweet! They don't retire and I keep my position. Nice - I know exactly how to win this - Oh they didn't retire again. Wish they would have but that's okay! Actually pretty ideal, they have two cubes now and I can pick up an 8 VP house when they retire in the final round and I won't have to pay upkeep on it! - Everything is going exactly to plan - They didn't retire again?! They have two loving cubes on. What the gently caress is this this has literally cost me the game (or 2nd place) - This game is a joke Dice in games... just don't do it! Haven't played since but it's not that I wouldn't. For JC at least it's worth the ~experience~ even if the dice hate my guts. Still really soured the ~experience~ though... but what are the odds that'll happen twice 
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Apr 18, 2024 22:28
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mikeycp posted:machi koro can be very fun, but it can also be very not fun The one I hated was machi koro with an expansion that swapped the open market with a market row, some people managed to get some cards that meant when you rolled some numbers, other people lost money, and I death spiralled because I could never buy those cards when they came up and my turn consisted of rolling the dice and passing
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Apr 18, 2024 22:39
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Tekopo posted:I played machi koro base game I think, the one where you can buy whatever you want (iirc??) and it was fine that sounds bad. i've only played base and legacy and both are fine, but legacy has One Really Busted Strategy that we had to house rule out because it's extremely extremely unfun to deal with
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Apr 18, 2024 22:42
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Machi koro with the market row was, coincidentally, the only game I rage quit (politely) out of, too. Godawful. Anyway, I've actually never had someone want to quit out of a game because they're losing, exactly, but there's definitely been times where the person in last is forced to make a move that decides which of the people not in last wins. Which isn't particularly enjoyable for anyone at the table, and is the situation where mp games can be called by mutual acclaim.
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Apr 18, 2024 22:54
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silvergoose posted:Anyway, I've actually never had someone want to quit out of a game because they're losing, exactly, but there's definitely been times where the person in last is forced to make a move that decides which of the people not in last wins. and it's always, in my experience, the eligible person who is farthest from winning totally fair to clock out before this point
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Apr 18, 2024 23:16
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The one game I should've resigned but didn't, either due to fatigue, stupidity, and/or some other reason, was a 3 hour game of Century spice road. It was mostly the fault of 2 of the 5 players, so at least I gained valuable insight as to who to never allow into my games at any local meetup.
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Apr 18, 2024 23:32
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My experience is that most people who want to resign are just sore losers who can’t stand to see the last turn play out if they aren’t going to win. I mean who would possibly want to see the culmination of a gamelong strategy and be able to see all the final scores and how the various choices worked out for each player when you can just say “welp clearly Bob won, let’s just start chucking everything back in the box right now.” There TTA resign rule has been noted several times now, but the interesting thing about it is that it acknowledges that you can’t resign in Age IV (just before the end of the game). Elysium fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 18, 2024 |
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Apr 18, 2024 23:33
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Chill la Chill posted:a 3 hour game of Century spice road
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Apr 18, 2024 23:42
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I have had teaching games where people want to resign mid-game. Usually its either the game is too much, or their AP is getting in the way of their enjoyment.
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Apr 19, 2024 00:16
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Redundant posted:What was the game? I was avoiding saying for plausible deniability purposes (in case by some strange accident of fate this person sees me talking poo poo, even though they are not a goon) and you don't have PMs, so let's say it's a big game.
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Apr 19, 2024 00:20
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Magnetic North posted:I was avoiding saying for plausible deniability purposes (in case by some strange accident of fate this person sees me talking poo poo, even though they are not a goon) and you don't have PMs, so let's say it's a big game. Big game, caps at five players, lasts five turns? Sounds like Crystal Palace or Barrage with the expansion. Also a dipshit like that I wouldn't care what they saw me saying on a forum, because I would have already said it to their face. But that's me, for whom "tact" means "pinned to the wall".
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Apr 19, 2024 00:35
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If you're genuinely not enjoying a game it's fine to say so and ask how long it's going to take to finish. If it's gonna be ages then a good host will end the game and reschedule with the people that were really enjoying it, who (hopefully) learned enough to be even more engaged with it next time. If it's like "can you hang on 20 minutes so we can finish?" then I think you should just deal with it and then not play it again. I used to play games with this one guy that would constantly complain if he wasn't in the lead or if anyone targeted him with any negative thing in literally every game. We were playing OG Descent 1E with me as the Overlord and I sprung a trap on him, and then had to spend five minutes detailing every single time I had attacked someone other than him because he was whining about being targeted. A GM made him re-roll a character in front of other players because all of his stats were almost the maximum you could possibly roll and he shouted about how unfair that was. The last time I played a game with him was Talisman. Somehow, me and three other players all started as spellcasters and all of us had the spell that made someone miss a turn. We all cast it on him. The meltdown was so good that he never turned up to any gaming session with any of us involved ever again.
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Apr 19, 2024 00:37
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Don't think I've ever resigned from a game, but I got pretty close when I discovered I'd critically misunderstood how the book-sorting rules work in that little book gnome game. Now, the other guy who was playing it for the first time with me managed to misunderstand the book rules in a completely different way, and when he found out, he threw his entire library in the air and walked away. I stayed. My score was very bad
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Apr 19, 2024 01:21
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Perry Mason Jar posted:My first experience of JohnCon2e: It sounds like you only had one office holder, so you were putting all your eggs in one basket. What were you doing with all your other family actions?
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Apr 19, 2024 02:44
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I had four office holders and two retired, iirc. I actually had two office holders going into the final play, neither of which retired, I'm just more incensed about the one with two cubes than the one with none.
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Apr 19, 2024 03:14
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Worst is having someone complain and want to the game to end becuase they are last then have them AP every remaining decision they have or actively take decisions to extend the game time (???).
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Apr 19, 2024 04:04
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every once in a while, my wife or I will stay in a clear blowout (2p only!) if the other person has a chance to get a really ridiculous score or do something rare/satisfying. I am sure I would do the same occasionally at 3p+ with friends, as long as it wasn't going to take a long time. There's something mildly special happening for the non-winner(s), if they're fans of the game. An edge case for sure.
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Apr 19, 2024 06:04
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homullus posted:every once in a while, my wife or I will stay in a clear blowout (2p only!) if the other person has a chance to get a really ridiculous score or do something rare/satisfying. I am sure I would do the same occasionally at 3p+ with friends, as long as it wasn't going to take a long time. There's something mildly special happening for the non-winner(s), if they're fans of the game. An edge case for sure. Yeah I get what you mean. On some level I treat a lot of (nominally competitive) games as a collaborative exploration of the mechanical possibilities and there can definitely be cases where playing something out is the most interesting option.
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Apr 19, 2024 06:14
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I probably should have resigned and gone home the other night when we were 90 minutes into Yucatan, rather than sticking it out for another 90 minutes and then having a go at my friend for providing a poo poo teach and slowing the game down by not being across all the rules.
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Apr 19, 2024 06:32
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case in point, played a game of darts tonight that was over at least 15 minutes before it ended. league looks down on resigning though. gotta suffer to the bitter end
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Apr 19, 2024 07:57
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How can you not have fun throwing darts regardless of scores
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Apr 19, 2024 08:25
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losing by 200+ points in a competitive league game is not fun
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Apr 19, 2024 08:36
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Finally, it's time.
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Apr 19, 2024 08:56
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i've been playing every week for 3ish years and i'm still pretty terrible
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Apr 19, 2024 09:02
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DropTheAnvil posted:I have had teaching games where people want to resign mid-game. Usually its either the game is too much, or their AP is getting in the way of their enjoyment. I'm almost at the point where i feel a teaching game shouldn't actually go all the way to the end, or should set a point in advance where the players can decide if they want to continue or restart.
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Apr 19, 2024 12:39
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mikeycp posted:case in point, played a game of darts tonight that was over at least 15 minutes before it ended. If you're playing for money it's a completely different situation from a social game imho, and most spots leagues have tie breakers so you've got to play out the string. With social games though I think resigning is more acceptable the more the group has played, because you're more likely to have a solid grasp on the end game.
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Apr 19, 2024 13:43
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I think it comes up in 18xx all the time and I recall there being a fairly involved thread on some title with (of course) Clearclaw and others getting into it regarding ending games when someone has been determined to have won. But here's the situation that came up in the game of 18SJ I just played: I wasn't paying attention and ended up getting two companies dumped on me, one trainless and I've got a 4T and a 5T in two other corps. I could theoretically shuffle trains back and forth until the cows come home and lose the game certainly but that would allow a player with more profitable runs to come up from 2nd into 1st. I ended up just buying the diesel to rust the 4Ts (including my own) and then ate then bankruptcy at first opportunity rather than waste time doing stupid train shuffling. I could have train shuffled and run the diesel withholding until I got another one and still lost but just took longer to do it (within the rules) but also am not forced to do so using the in-game rules, just jumped out the window ending the whole thing. Guess you could say that's the neat part about these games is that if someone can keep going you have to figure out if they will or not and can't assume they'll voluntarily go bust when you want them to, especially when you're the one who handed them a bad company in the first place... And there is the possibility of them suddenly doing better than you'd expect if they can do insane runs for wild payouts all of a sudden... EDIT: In Civ we just say play for the best position you can. If poo poo happens (especially in Mega Civ) and you miss an AST movement, generally speaking you've lost already but lately there have been some upsets. FulsomFrank fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Apr 19, 2024 |
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Apr 19, 2024 14:10
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Yeah, when I’ve completely lost beyond even a Hail Mary play and there’s no person I want to make suffer for their betrayal, I usually don’t resign, but I do try to find the end game trigger and sprint towards it. “Oh, the game ends when there are no more acorns in the supply? I’ll spend my income buying acorns.” “But you don’t have enough winter storage to score those acorns!” “Couldn’t care less. Two acorns, please.”
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Apr 19, 2024 15:57
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CitizenKeen posted:Yeah, when I’ve completely lost beyond even a Hail Mary play and there’s no person I want to make suffer for their betrayal, I usually don’t resign, but I do try to find the end game trigger and sprint towards it. Not in the sense of Why Not Just Resign?, but Why Am I Even Doing This To Begin With? I can appreciate big lunkers like TTA (I think maybe Mega Civs / Mega Empires also?) having rules for resignation just for convenience’s sake but I do find it funny to imagine game designers responding to “players want to stop playing your game before it’s over” with “well gently caress, that’s terrible, think of the balance implications”
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Apr 19, 2024 16:11
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Remembering a game of The Resistance where one of the traitors was exposed and resigned by putting his Vote No card face-up on the table, flipping everyone off, and walking away from the game. This was a clever strategy that lead to him and his team winning.
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Apr 19, 2024 16:18
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Resigning in any game with only two players is fine and good. I guess if you have some meta with that particular player where you want to see things play out for the purposes of tracking high scores or something then that's cool too, but if that's the situation then you and that player have already got a well established pattern going. In games with larger player counts resigning is also fine if the game is designed in a way that allows for it without totally changing the game state. Typically in those situations it's better if someone at the table can take the resigning player's place in a way that doesn't let them king-make themself, but that's pretty rare. I'm lucky enough that the crew I play long multiplayer games with are always interested in playing out the game and trying to win, even if they're in last place. When I'm in dead last I personally just try to get out of dead last. Like I know I'm not going to win, but maybe I can catch up with at least one other player, and in the process I'll get a little bit better at the game. I like playing games with people who are always trying to win, regardless of what position they're in, but simultaneously are really at the table because the activity is fun regardless of the outcome.
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Apr 19, 2024 16:42
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I think bigger and complex games need systems that make it worthwhile to play things out, and that includes mechanisms to end play early if someone establishes a dominant lead. Such games also need mechanisms to avoid player elimination or virtual elimination. Monopoly is terrible in both those respects. Three examples: Here I Stand really needs six players, has complex rules, and takes 4+ hours to finish. It has a victory rule if one player gets too far into the lead. There’s a “sue for peace” mechanism that allows a player losing a war badly to recover, and the rewards are meaningful for the conqueror but not so good that picking on the weakest power is going to be a game-winning strategy. Best of all, each player has particular objectives that are fun to persue even if you know you’re going to lose: Protestantism may have claimed much of Europe, but you finished St. Peters and burned three heretics! Magic Realm is ridiculously complex and challenging for a group of players, but you can make progress on your own VP objectives and enjoy play even when you lose, and it can be just as fun to see the stories that develop during a session, even if it’s all about the White Knight gathering a lot of loot and then getting killed by orcs. Britannia has a VP system that obscures who is actually in the lead, and gives each side its own specific objectives. I don’t think it works nearly as well as the other two, but it is usually the case that if your side is struggling, something weird or cool is happening as a result. In one extreme case, my Welsh managed to wipe out both the Angles and the Saxons, leaving a large portion of England unpopulated. (For those familiar with the game, this was technically the result of my sacrificing the Jutes entirely to ensure Welsh dominance.) I’m not quite sure it was “fun” for anyone else, exactly, but it was memorable and eventually legendary among that group of players, even if it was also the last time we played Britannia.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:38
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The CCG archetype of "control decks" where a player wins by constraining an opponent's choices or resources can be brutally un-fun to play against. My 8 year old loves building those. Those matches are either very fast because you resign when you're doomed or long games where you're bitterly fighting for every little advantage you can get. Those are card games that last ~15 minutes, so no problem either way. If that element exists in a multiplayer game that will take 2 hours to see to completion then maybe it is not a good game.
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Apr 19, 2024 19:47
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:If you're playing for money it's a completely different situation from a social game imho, and most spots leagues have tie breakers so you've got to play out the string. It's not for money, it's just for trophy. It's also an entirely skill based game and I take failure at skill based things as a reflection of self worth
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Apr 19, 2024 19:51
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can I concede to fat tails guy now, or do we have to play this out?
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Apr 19, 2024 19:53
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Backgammon already had this poo poo figured out with the doubling cube. It would be neat to see a similar mechanism in other games. Or maybe a simple midgame checkpoint, where if the gap of point difference / victory conditions between the highest and lowest players is at threshold then all players can agree to call it quits.
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Apr 19, 2024 19:54
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panko posted:can I concede to fat tails guy now, or do we have to play this out? You can but it would throw off the threads balance
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Apr 19, 2024 19:56
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