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Uncle Boogeyman posted:honestly, 1/6 turning into an annual "gently caress America" day would be the best possible outcome. i'd love a gently caress America day. furthermore, we should get it off work. I'll celebrate whatever if I get a day off work.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:58
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I get that our corporate overlords would never let a real coup happen because it's bad for business, but plenty of chuds still support 1/6, I wouldn't call support "overwhelmingly negative"
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Jan 3, 2022 20:01
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I'd argue that the reason Trump isn't in jail or barred from office for 1/6 isn't because Democrats don't want him to be, but because they can't achieve it. The second impeachment was a joke, he wasn't even president anymore when the trial happened. Trump committed crimes (allegedly), he can just be arrested and charged with crimes, you don't need a 2/3 senate vote for that. Members of congress who committed crimes can be arrested and charged with crimes, you don't need a 2/3 senate vote for that. Senators and former presidents aren't medieval nobility who can only be tried by fellow nobles, they are subject to the same justice system everyone else is (well okay, they are subject to the same justice system as other rich guys, which is different from what we all get, but it isn't a special thing where they can't be convicted of crimes without a senate vote). They can all be convicted of crimes. That's why Ford had to pardon Nixon after he resigned, because otherwise he could be charged with crimes! When Larry Craig was caught jerking off and soliciting blowjobs at the airport did the cops say "oh excuse me my lord, I didn't realize you were a senator, by all means keep loving and sucking in airport bathrooms until Harry Reid and 66 other senators get on the horn and say you have to stop", no he was charged and pled guilty immediately while he was still a senator, and resigned from the shame of it all afterwards. People who commit crimes can be charged with crimes. Stop reflexively defending inaction with made-up procedural nonsense. Impeachment or expulsion are completely separate political processes that have no influence on the criminal and judicial processes of charging and prosecution.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:04
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Dpulex posted:I get that our corporate overlords would never let a real coup happen because it's bad for business, but plenty of chuds still support 1/6, I wouldn't call support "overwhelmingly negative" Overwhelming by population though, only 20-some percent of the population actually wanted him to be legally president enough to vote for him, and the number that wanted an illegal coup to happen is smaller than that. It's a disturbing number of people to be sure, but not anything like the numbers you need for an actual popular insurrection. Enough to hold power if he controlled the military or had the backing our corporates overlords or at least enough of the Republican party united behind him, yeah sure that's why I said it takes "some combination" of those four things. Just the chuds by themselves though, not enough. As we saw. They ran away when one person got shot for getting to close to people who mattered.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:09
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Dpulex posted:I get that our corporate overlords would never let a real coup happen because it's bad for business, but plenty of chuds still support 1/6, I wouldn't call support "overwhelmingly negative" I went and looked it up and found this article from Politico which was honestly better than I expected but still not great. I could post some excerpts but it's pretty short already so: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2022/01/02/4-startling-polls-you-should-read-about-jan-6-495559 My main takeaway from all of it remains that this IS the new norm/face of the Republican party and I don't see any reason for any of it to change or calm down. In a two party system and with our electoral college this is a huge problem.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:12
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Imagine refusing to hold an L so hard that you pivot to fascism immediately.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:16
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VitalSigns posted:The thing is 1/6 made this less likely, not more. Several Republicans dropped their opposition to the certification and voted to certify in the aftermath because they just wanted to grandstand, they didn't actually want a mob overthrowing the government. The status quo serves them just fine. I'm loathe to rely on the John Eastman's factual representations, but I am not sure this is true. Eastman says in his memo that seven states (or at least their legislatures) had sent alternative slates of electors, and while the Electoral Count Act does make it clear which slate should prevail in that event, I suspect the law would not have stood in the way if Trump had succeeded in rallying enough support to force a vote in the House. The Eastman memo gives an at least semi-plausible scenario for how that could go down. Don't get me wrong, the plan was clearly a long-shot, and I agree that in actual fact the capitol attack made that plan even less likely to succeed. But I would not go so far as to say that the eventual lack of success means there was never a serious plan to disrupt the certification process and keep Trump in power in the first place. We can see from the Eastman memo that there was, indeed, such a plan; and from things like the Tuberville and Lee phone messages that Trump's camp was trying to execute on that plan while the riot was still ongoing.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:17
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This thread is a good example of how liberals are completely ideologically incapable of defending against the next coup, because their reflex is to always defend the institutions that are failing us, especially the Democrats but also the Republicans too. They'll moan about how mean Mitch McConnell is for voting against impeachment, but when any solution that Democrats can do unilaterally comes up, they pretend it doesn't exist. The DoJ could charge Gosar with crimes, but we're just gonna pretend the DoJ doesn't exist and all you can do about a congressman comitting attempted murder is try to censure him and give up when Republicans won't vote to write him a strongly worded letter about it. They'll praise Mitt Romney for glaring at Hawley and giving some self-indulgent speech about democracy so we mustn't blame Republicans like him for 1/6, meanwhile he's filibustering any actual legislative action to avert the next coup which is going to be way smarter and more official and more like Bush v Gore. And they'll have no argument against it because they'll have spent four years praising the good Republicans like Mitt Romney who are going to be the ones doing it. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 20:21
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Aegis posted:I'm loathe to rely on the John Eastman's factual representations, but I am not sure this is true. Eastman says in his memo that seven states (or at least their legislatures) had sent alternative slates of electors, and while the Electoral Count Act does make it clear which slate should prevail in that event, I suspect the law would not have stood in the way if Trump had succeeded in rallying enough support to force a vote in the House. The Eastman memo gives an at least semi-plausible scenario for how that could go down. They didn't have the institutional support. They were only able to mount congressional challenges in the counts for two states which didn't represent enough EVs to change the outcome, and both those challenges went down in flames anyway. As you say, the law is clear, there were no valid alternate slates of electoral votes, if the Republican states had wanted to send valid competing votes they could have, and they didn't. A few state houses did the equivalent of me writing on a napkin. Gohmert tried to challenge the electoral count act and his case was dismissed. Trump didn't have the state governments, he didn't have the congress, and he didn't have the courts. The riot was never going to change the fundamental power politics at play here, they were just a bunch of morons who (like many libs apparently) think there's some weird trick to finding the magic chachkies of Democracy to make them king like pulling a sword from a stone. Because that's how it happens in the movies, the squad of good guys breaks into the bad guy's office and confronts him and he's like "oh okay you got me let's kung fu fight for it". And they couldn't even win the kung fu fight part, they're cowards who ran at the first sign of trouble. The way to understand the 1/6 riot is to look at what happens in TV and movies. When they got to the senate chamber, they rifled through desks thinking they were going to find a document labeled The Real Votes in Ted Cruz's desk. And they couldn't even admit to themselves they were doing crimes, they reassured each other "Ted Cruz would want us to do this" lol. They thought they'd just wave the paper in front of the cameras and the good guys would win. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 20:31
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VitalSigns posted:This thread is a good example of how liberals are completely ideologically incapable of defending against the next coup, because their reflex is to always defend the institutions that are failing us, especially the Democrats but also the Republicans too. What do you suggest?
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Jan 3, 2022 20:35
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VitalSigns posted:This thread is a good example of how liberals are completely ideologically incapable of defending against the next coup, because their reflex is to always defend the institutions that are failing us, especially the Democrats but also the Republicans too. quote:The riot was never going to change the fundamental power politics at play here, they were just a bunch of morons who (like many libs apparently) think there's some weird trick to finding the magic chachkies of Democracy to make them king like pulling a sword from a stone. I appreciate the arguments you are making, but kindly drop the "libs" bullshit.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:36
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Aegis posted:I appreciate the arguments you are making, but kindly drop the "libs" bullshit. I don't think it's bullshit and I politely invite you to explain why liberals deserve defense within the context of this discussion.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:38
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BiggerBoat posted:What do you suggest? Institutionally? The DoJ should charge all of the ringleaders with the actual crimes that the 1/6 ceremony is going to handwring about. Put actual consequences behind it. Look at what happened in Bolivia, the ringleader of the coup got dragged out of a laundry basket in her house and put in rich people jail where she gets to eat Burger King and can't plan more coups. If Evo had just gone "well gee we asked her party nicely if we could hold her accountable and they said no, oh well we need a strong opposition" well, then they'd be hosed just like we are. Individually? Man I don't know, I got mega-depressed about the future when they selected Biden and crushed the people's movement for better things in the primary. Democrats don't care about democracy, they rig their own elections, they're not going to defend the country's elections either. I kinda hoped maybe self-preservation would inspire them to pass voting rights, but they aren't even gonna do that. All I can say is that as long as we defend the Democrats who are complicit in destroying this country's democracy, we're not fixing anything. If someone has a way forward I'm all ears, all I know is the existing powers that be are refusing to do anything about this, and for some godawful reason people are defending them for it. If we can't even properly describe the problem we can't even start to go about fixing it. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 20:43
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This quote chain was going on in the US CurEv thread before discussion moved here:Cranappleberry posted:I will point out that the Nazis came to power legally. Most people go on trying to live their lives and watch or read on a screen what is happening in their area/the country. Capital will back whoever gives them the most money. Sedisp posted:The nazis did not kidnap the chancellor and have him overturn an election to very unfairly treated President Hitler. The entire 1/6 almost blew up democracy hinges on a plan that is not going to be viewed as legitimate by most of the citizenry. Fame Douglas posted:Plenty of authoritarian countries started out democratic and transitioned peacefully. Pence not certifying some states very well could have lead to President Trump. Cow Bell posted:I mean the Nazis also utilized a mass terrorism campaign that utilized beatings, assassination, and arson before forming a coalition government with the liberals but whatever Many posters in this forum, and commentators elsewhere too, have drawn very direct comparisons to the Nazi takeover in Germany. I'd just like to chime in and say that many of those similarities are nevertheless superficial and Weimar Germany and current USA have really zero similarities. Nada. You might as well compare USA to Chile in 1973 or any other successful or failed coup in history. In the bit over a decade which the Republik existed it saw several right wing putches and some communist revolutions, the latter of which were violently stamped out by Freikorps. Doesn't apply to USA - there have been no serious political unrest in the past decades. Like Cow Bell already pointed out, the political violence in the Weimar Republic from the Freikorps, SA brown shirts and other groups was out of hand and hundreds of politicians were murdered during that time (particularly in the first years), plus countless cases of less final violence and intimidation. Doesn't apply to USA - there just isn't comparison, even the capitol coup thing saw very few casualties. (I'll admit that German police organizations were also pathetic at trying to stop planned assassinations.) Germany had been an empire until very recently, and while things had gone bad during the war, many still felt like things were better under the emperor when the nation wasn't being constantly humiliated by the French and the other allied victors. This allowed Paul von Hindenburg to become president, since as a hero of WW1 he was seen more reliable than those clowns in Reichstag. This was a huge advantage to someone like Hitler who promised to restore German borders, restore German national dignity and restore one head honcho that the nation could trust on protecting them. This in particular doesn't apply to USA - I haven't seen any traces of "Miss me yet?" posters with the pictures of King George III. There just isn't a valid alternative to current system that the majority would accept. Indeed USA should be quite resilient against coups because there's a centuries long political tradition that everyone is aware of and most don't want to suddenly change, at least not in the way that the Koup Klux Klan tried to. All that I'm saying is that Germany 1933 is not a useful comparison to use in these discussions, not that you shouldn't be concerned about 6th of January events and the radical movement behind it. I'm also trying to think of a comparison where an established democracy has fallen to a sudden coup. My perception is that it doesn't happen much, you have cases like Turkey which never were politically stable or Hungary which also doesn't have a long history with democracy to lean on.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:43
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The Sean posted:I don't think it's bullshit and I politely invite you to explain why liberals deserve defense within the context of this discussion. Well, first and perhaps most significantly, there were many politicians involved in planning and executing 1/6, and none of them were liberals! Wow! As for celebrating 1/6 as "gently caress America" day, I know many posters think it is awesome and great that there is a big group of people who hate Democrats and America, like they do. But they should beware those people are not their friends, and do not hate America for the reasons Extremely Online Leftists do, but rather because it does not have a fascist right-wing government, and they hate Democrats for standing in the way of one.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:44
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The Sean posted:I don't think it's bullshit and I politely invite you to explain why liberals deserve defense within the context of this discussion. I don't think liberals as such require defense in the context of this discussion. Vitalsigns didn't deign to quote anybody, so it's not clear what argument he was responding to. He seems to just be throwing it out as a term of abuse for unspecified other posters.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:44
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Mellow Seas posted:Well, first and perhaps most significantly, there were many politicians involved in planning and executing 1/6, and none of them were liberals! Wow! I don't need to be friends with Republicans to hate America but thanks for the warning.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:48
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Aegis posted:I don't think liberals as such require defense in the context of this discussion. Vitalsigns didn't deign to quote anybody, so it's not clear what argument he was responding to. He seems to just be throwing it out as a term of abuse for unspecified other posters. I said "deserve" not "require."
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Jan 3, 2022 20:50
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I don't need to be friends with Republicans to hate America but thanks for the warning. Nope, you sure don't. But there are people who seem to think that every new person who hates America and Democrats is a positive development - see the consistent gloating over Biden's bad approval ratings or Dems getting beaten on generic ballots - when it’s actually the country spinning out wildly to the right, getting farther rather than closer to left-wing goals. Unless you hate liberals more than fascists you should not be celebrating or minimizing 1/6.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:50
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Mellow Seas posted:Nope, you sure don't. But there are people who seem to think that every new person who hates America and Democrats is a positive development, when it’s actually the country spinning out wildly to the right, getting farther rather than closer to left-wing goals. Cool, just stop putting words in my mouth or implying I'm one of those people
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Jan 3, 2022 20:51
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Mellow Seas posted:Nope, you sure don't. But there are people who seem to think that every new person who hates America and Democrats is a positive development - see the consistent gloating over Biden's bad approval ratings or Dems getting beaten on generic ballots - when it’s actually the country spinning out wildly to the right, getting farther rather than closer to left-wing goals. Unless you hate liberals more than fascists you should not be celebrating or minimizing 1/6. I'm begging you put this energy into making Democrat officials take it seriously instead of brow beating people on a dead comedy forum.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:52
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Cool, just stop putting words in my mouth or implying I'm one of those people Dude I never said anything about/to you. If you recognize that an upswing in right-wing sentiment among the public is bad, and not good because it's "anti-Democrat", I have no beef.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:52
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Mellow Seas posted:Dude I never said anything about/to you. Just because you didn't quote my post doesn't make it not obvious what you were doing.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:53
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Mellow Seas posted:Well, first and perhaps most significantly, there were many politicians involved in planning and executing 1/6, and none of them were liberals! Wow! Right but the point is liberals are ideologically incapable of doing anything about that. You just accused politicians of committing a litany of no-poo poo real honest to god crimes: attempted murder, conspiracy, insurrection, treason. Are they getting charged with that. No. Why not. Because it would impugn the credibility of the Republican Party as an institution. You, you personally, are even upholding the integrity of Mitt Romney and the Republican Party that he stands for, when he is right now filibustering any actual action to address the real threat to democracy. All the charges are against random rioters on the ground that none of those coup plotter politicians give a poo poo about, there's plenty more where they came from. Aegis posted:I don't think liberals as such require defense in the context of this discussion. Vitalsigns didn't deign to quote anybody, so it's not clear what argument he was responding to. He seems to just be throwing it out as a term of abuse for unspecified other posters. At this point you aren't even engaging with what I'm saying anymore, you're just complaining about terms.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:54
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The Sean posted:I said "deserve" not "require." Why am I supposed to explain why someone deserves something that I am not proposing to give them?
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Jan 3, 2022 20:54
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Aegis posted:Why am I supposed to explain why someone deserves something that I am not proposing to give them? You don't have to. But if you don't want to I don't know why you responded to me. ??? Have a good day, person.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:56
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Mellow Seas posted:Nope, you sure don't. But there are people who seem to think that every new person who hates America and Democrats is a positive development Yes. Mellow Seas posted:Unless you hate liberals more than fascists you should not be celebrating or minimizing 1/6. Finally, the permission I've been looking for.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:56
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Just because you didn't quote my post doesn't make it not obvious what you were doing. Sorry, I honestly didn't realize you were the one who suggested "gently caress America" day. I have no problem with a "gently caress America" day, just not on a day that symbolizes right-wing rage. It should probably be on May 1, or maybe Sept 2 (Vietnamese Independence Day  )
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Jan 3, 2022 20:58
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I'll celebrate whatever if I get a day off work. Yeah pretty sure "gently caress America" is just a state of mind at this point.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:59
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Vitalsigns is probably talking about this liberal who was unable to hold the Republicans accountable 3 days after it happened. Sometime should really tell this guy how serious it was. https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1347913769276461064
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Jan 3, 2022 21:00
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Mellow Seas posted:Sorry, I honestly didn't realize you were the one who suggested "gently caress America" day. As a labor organizer I object to having it on the same day as international worker’s day, although we should get that off work too.
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Jan 3, 2022 21:03
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VitalSigns posted:
Thanks that's what I meant. I took exception to your blanket call out of "liberals" in the thread being unwilling to stand up but maybe I mis-read your post. EDIT Also, get a load of all these Antifa people at the 1/6 gathering in DC lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI-BoEca2bE BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 21:05
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VitalSigns posted:If anything I'd say the opposite: the worse 1/6 is, the less important the differences between Republicans and Democrats. Dozens of people have already been charged with conspiracy And again "the Democrats", especially those in Congress, do not decide whether, let alone with what, to charge anyone VitalSigns posted:The second impeachment was a joke, he wasn't even president anymore when the trial happened. He was impeached a few days later while he was still president  Impeachment is a process explicitly detailed in the Constitution, not "made-up procedural nonsense". The purpose is not just to remove someone from office, which by the way does not happen when someone is charged or even convicted of a crime, but to ban from any future federal office. Say, him being elected president, to do this again. That would be a pretty good final action to take to prevent him from becoming president and doing this again, wouldn't it? And that ban also does not occur automatically when someone is charged, not even if it's a crime, not even if it's a felony, not even if they're convicted. Felons have won and still win elections all the time. Members of government explicitly have more legal protections. Members of Congress have legislative immunity against being arrested, especially for what they say or do in Congress. This is in the Constitution. The president also arguably can't be arrested; first because any judicial ruling to that effect would cause a Constitutional crisis due to the massive separation of powers issues it raises; more practically, because he's the chief executive, and do you really expect, or trust, the executive branch to execute
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Jan 3, 2022 21:27
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Fuschia tude posted:Dozens of people have already been charged with conspiracy Fuschia tude posted:And again "the Democrats", especially those in Congress, do not decide whether, let alone with what, to charge anyone Fuschia tude posted:He was impeached a few days later while he was still president Fuschia tude posted:Impeachment is a process explicitly detailed in the Constitution, not "made-up procedural nonsense". Fuschia tude posted:The purpose is not just to remove someone from office, which by the way does not happen when someone is charged or even convicted of a crime, but to ban from any future federal office. Say, him being elected president, to do this again. That would be a pretty good final action to take to prevent him from becoming president and doing this again, wouldn't it? And that ban also does not occur automatically when someone is charged, not even if it's a crime, not even if it's a felony, not even if they're convicted. Felons have won and still win elections all the time. Fuschia tude posted:Members of government explicitly have more legal protections. Members of Congress have legislative immunity against being arrested, especially for what they say or do in Congress. This is in the Constitution. Senator Larry Craig was arrested and charged for soliciting blowjobs in a public bathroom. There was no constitutional issue with this nor should there be, you are factually wrong and your ideology is dangerous if you really believe this and aren't just grasping at straws to defend your political sports team. Fuschia tude posted:The president also arguably can't be arrested; first because any judicial ruling to that effect would cause a Constitutional crisis due to the massive separation of powers issues it raises; more practically, because he's the chief executive, and do you really expect, or trust, the executive branch to execute Ok well Trump isn't the motherfucking president is he, so what's the problem. Do you think Trump is the chief executive right now? This is what I mean about people who are ideologically incapable of resisting the threat to democracy. You know Trump is not the president and instead of dealing with the cognitive dissonance between believing he's guilty of crimes and nothing happening to him, you resolve it by deflecting and talking about how hard it is to arrest a sitting president when the cops have to follow his orders as though he were still in the White House and not just some guy who faced more consequences from Twitter than from the people he incited a mob to try to murder. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 22:02
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm begging you put this energy into making Democrat officials take it seriously instead of brow beating people on a dead comedy forum. I don't have a dog in this fight, but this is a real glass houses situation. Pretty sure you could say this exact same thing to every poster here on Something Awful, all 56 of them.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:04
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IMo the best historical analogue for the January riot or insurrection or whatever isn't the Reichstag fire but instead the 1905 Russian revolution. Due to much unrest in the Russian empire, a group of far-right religious idiots marched on the capital in support of the tsar. Their hope was that the tsar would listen to their demands and fix poo poo. Instead, they were "dispersed" by the military and a bunch of them got shot having accomplished absolutely nothing except for the creation of an intentionally toothless committee. Edit: in this case, the "tsar", having total control over the state,, would be the American government. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 22:16
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BiggerBoat posted:Thanks that's what I meant. I took exception to your blanket call out of "liberals" in the thread being unwilling to stand up but maybe I mis-read your post. Oh yeah no I didn't mean you or blanket everybody. I was talking about a specific ideology of people like for example our president, there in the video GumballGumption posted saying we need a strong Republican Party. Biden said this right after they incited a riot that tried to kill the vice president, voted against convicting the former president in an impeachment trial and banning him from office at minimum, and are currently passing laws at the state level to disenfranchise democrats and end democracy. When I called out people's blinkered neoliberal ideology in this thread I didn't mean you, I mean the people reflexively defending the inaction. And I get why they're doing it. If the Republicans tried to overthrow the government, then the only opposition to them has to be Democrats, and therefore any criticism of Democrats is hurting that opposition and helping Republicans win. But that institutionalism or whatever you want to call it is incapable of dealing with a situation where the Democrats are just letting subversion happen. But to be fair to them, it's not like I'm any better equipped to fight what's happening. I can at least understand what's going on but I don't know what to do about it. Is my pointing out that Biden or Pelosi are complicit and have just chosen to ignore the problem and get on the fundraising gravy train by stoking liberal pearl clutching doing anything either? Do I know how to get them out of office. Sure don't. I just find the defenses of what they're doing and the mental gymnastics people are doing to try to reconcile their belief Trump and GOP congressmen committed crimes with the reality that none of them are getting arrested astounding. It's like, if we believe that Paul Gosar is guilty of attempted murder, and that congressmen have full immunity to commit murder scot-free, why are we even worried about 1/6 or democracy, democracy is already over the day a Gosar realizes he could just walk into the state of the union and start assassinating Democrats left and right until Republicans have a majority and can choose their own speaker to ascend to the presidency, and no one can lay a finger on him as he's blowing away the president and half of congress with a tommygun.
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Jan 3, 2022 23:41
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It's also worth reminding people that it wasn't just relegated to DC either. NPR just did a timeline walk through of most of it and even I had forgotten about attacks on other State Capitols. https://www.vox.com/2021/1/6/22217736/state-capitol-stop-the-steal-protests-rallies https://www.npr.org/2022/01/03/1069983186/what-happened-when-during-the-jan-6-insurrection-heres-a-timeline-of-events And I think to the people saying "what would they have done had they succeeded?", like murdering Pelosi or holding Pence hostage or something, the more pertinent question is "what would have the opposition done to stop them"? and, at a bare minimum, you have a constitutional crisis. So, to resolve that, you need lawmakers and...? OK. Like others have pointed out, naive faith in the institutions themselves is a false sense of security. The laws are only good as those enforcing them. I mean, a lot of people here are saying "nuh-uh cause they can't DO that!" but what happens when they DO? The military was already shown to be bewildered and basically wondering what the gently caress. They're mostly under educated kids, sworn to the CIC and statistically lean pretty far right. Police, as we have seen time and time again, are conservatively estimating I'd say 75% on the side of those lunatics and probably 95% willing to look the other way at a minimum. Only cops I heard speaking out against them were the ones directly attacked. ***Side note: I called the cops (which I rarely do) here in St. Augustine because I saw a dude with 3% and 1888 stickers on his car blatantly parking in a handicap space at a children's party - when there were several other spaces open. Cops talked to him a little bit, they both looked around a little (probably to see who called) and the cop left with the truck STILL parked in the handicapped space*** Which kind of relates to what I'm talking about. Next time it won't be Trump. It will be someone smarter with the foresight to actually launch some false flags, rig an election and plant evidence of it. I considered for a good while that the reason Trump was hollering so much about a rigged election even before the results was that he actually tried to do it but couldn't pull it off. I honestly wouldn't put it past them to stage a fake assassination attempt or something similar. Someone smarter than Steve Bannon, Alex Jones or James O'Keefe is eventually going to figure out a way to actually make the things they project onto CNN and Democrats into a reality. poo poo, if I were evil and one of them, that's what I would do. Go watch a movie called Bob Roberts, made almost 30 years ago, that is hardly even satire anymore. Next time, when something legitimately DOES look fishy, they'll go "see? Now that we've made it fair, the left is crying about voting machines and poo poo. Now that we've won by eliminating all the fraud, suddenly they think we;re the ones cheating! These people who hate America must be prosecuted and jailed for treason" or, if we march on DC, they'll view and frame any violent response as payback for the persecution they suffered on 1/6; which was an Antifa false flag anyway, and want to prosecute, jail and probably execute anyone caught on camera within 20 miles of the white house. They actually WILL put undercover BLM/Antifa people doing violent poo poo. They were caught red handed doing before. Democrats are going to stop this? How? Sorry, I'm kind of babbling a little bit but I think my overall point can probably worm it's way out of my rant.
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Jan 3, 2022 23:46
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I wonder if the people arguing that the Vice President has the power to unilaterally select the next president, and that the survival of American democracy all came down to Mike Pence's integrity think that Kamala Harris can likewise unilaterally select the winner in 2024. If so then there's no need to worry about another coup ever again, if it looks like Republicans are cheating Kamala can just pick the President and VP every four years and apparently the congress and the states and the military and the entire population will just go "oh ok then" so what's the problem.
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Jan 3, 2022 23:49
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BiggerBoat posted:It's also worth reminding people that it wasn't just relegated to DC either. NPR just did a timeline walk through of most of it and even I had forgotten about attacks on other State Capitols. I think it's worth noting that even most conservatives thought 1/6 was repulsive... At the time. I have very Trumpy in-laws who were revolted. This is supposed to be the party of law, order, and the common man, not cro-magnon hooligans killing cops.
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Jan 4, 2022 01:08
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