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How about, could I accept, and then quit claim to my mother? I think there's a chance they could be convinced to sell, but not without a lot of haranguing and hand wringing and ... like we all could use a little more money, but I'm not hard up so I don't think the negotiation would be worth it for me.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:09
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Your options for handing it off really depend on the language of the controlling document and state-specific laws beyond the scope of what the attorneys itt could ethically answer.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:18
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Just out of curiosity, what is the "best" way to pass property on to multiple people. A trust consisting of 5 owners or do people put the property in 5 people's names? I agree that you should GTFO of a multi owner property deal and speak to a lawyer. My grandma left her house to all 5 children and they couldn't get the lazy fifth kid to move out and agree to sell for a while.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:23
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Nonexistence posted:Your options for handing it off really depend on the language of the controlling document and state-specific laws beyond the scope of what the attorneys itt could ethically answer. Hmm, I am in Alaska, my mother is in Indiana, the deceased and the property is in Ohio. Which state do I need to find an attorney in?
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Nov 15, 2022 22:30
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Whatever state probate is in which I assume is Ohio.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:38
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Epitope posted:Hmm, I am in Alaska, my mother is in Indiana, the deceased and the property is in Ohio. Which state do I need to find an attorney in? Where is the estate being handled? It's in probate right now, right? Evil SpongeBob posted:Just out of curiosity, what is the "best" way to pass property on to multiple people. A trust consisting of 5 owners or do people put the property in 5 people's names? I don't know the answer for sure, but: a trust has any number of Beneficiaries, and also has a Trustee - the person in charge of managing the trust for the benefit of the Beneficiaries. So one option is to place the property into the trust, name one Trustee, name all the Beneficiaries (and the percentage for each, it doesn't have to be equal shares) and then it becomes the Trustee's problem. Most likely for a rental property they'd hire a management company to rent out the property and then apportion the profits, if any, to the Beneficiaries, but I imagine it depends on the language of the trust. Another option is to charge the Trustee with selling the property, dispersing the funds, and then unwinding the trust. I think you can also make the Beneficiaries empowered to pick the Trustee, but presumably they'd have to agree or vote or something. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trustee.asp#toc-responsibilities-of-a-trustee I am the designated Trustee of my parent's trust, because of all my siblings, my parents trust me to be sensible, not greedy, understand the complexities, and do what's right for the family without drama or stress. I believe the language of their trust leaves it to me to determine what to do with property such as real estate: I would ask my siblings and then follow a consensus, or if no consensus could be reached, I would default to selling everything of no sentimental value and dispersing the cash evenly. If my folks didn't trust me to do this, they could designate a law firm or specialist co. to do it for the trust. The Trustee is paid by the trust, though, and so that can be expensive and basically costs the Beneficiaries money compared to having a family member do it at-cost or whatever. It's a drat good idea anyway if there's likely to be drama or incompetence, for example in the aunt's case insisting that properties be rented and not designating a Trustee experienced in holding and managing rental properties. I think it could still be an option, if everyone agrees, to place those inherited properties into a trust, appoint a professional Trustee, and let them do the work and disburse profits. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 22:39
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I don't know, it might be a trust. The deceased didn't fully trust her sisters, so none of the fam has all the documents. The executor is an attorney. I kinda think I want to just disclaim, I'll probably ask a local lawyer if they can help me do that. This is completely typical of this family, using gifts as weapons.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:43
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My friend was admitted to the bar today should I pass your email address along?
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Nov 16, 2022 00:12
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If you disclaim there's a fair chance you're just passing this along to your spouse or children rather than the other beneficiaries. A disclaimer is not an assignment.
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Nov 16, 2022 02:19
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Haha, wow. Um, thank you a lot kind stranger. I guess instead of holding ill will towards my aunt, I can thank her for helping me grow up, boy named sue style
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Nov 16, 2022 02:51
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Finally initiated the estate planning process. $2500 for a revocable trust which doesn't seem too bad. I also set up a "black" book in our password manager and made sure my wife knew it was there. It has gotta suck when the spouse who manages the finances/bills dies and never shared any of the account or login info with their spouse.
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Nov 16, 2022 21:41
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laxbro posted:It has gotta suck when the spouse who manages the finances/bills dies and never shared any of the account or login info with their spouse. The husband of the boomer couple across the street from my mother in law died a few years back. The wife literally didn't have anything other than a debit card and would be handed cash weekly or whatever. Absolutely zero idea how anything worked, where it was, paperwork, etc. Two of their kids had to come in and spend a few months there to straighten out the mess as best they could. Don't do that poo poo to your kids/spouse/family. Good on your for getting started.
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Nov 16, 2022 22:25
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Yeah septegenarian clients with a 16 year old's financial acuity can get into a lot of fun really quick. Saw one lose $1m in a few months once taking out margin loans to buy groceries and lottery tickets.
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Nov 16, 2022 22:30
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Nonexistence posted:See my response to above for finding someone, but the biiig caveat for people in your situation is that no matter what you put in a will, that will still has to go through probate, and probate will be more expensive than a trust by a factor of at least 2-3x if everything is right and 10x+ if anything is wrong if your net worth is at least like even low six digits. I should know better than to disagree with a bona fide attorney on this, but wouldn't that be state-dependent? I was the administrator to a low six-figures estate and apart from some filing fees and a bunch of legwork it wasn't too bad at all. (Possibly relevant: this is a state where probate is happy to take a family settlement agreement in lieu of any accounting if all beneficiaries are signed off) Nonexistence posted:Yeah septegenarian clients with a 16 year old's financial acuity can get into a lot of fun really quick. Saw one lose $1m in a few months once taking out margin loans to buy groceries and lottery tickets. Oh god how did that happen?
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Nov 17, 2022 00:17
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Agronox posted:I should know better than to disagree with a bona fide attorney on this, but wouldn't that be state-dependent? I was the administrator to a low six-figures estate and apart from some filing fees and a bunch of legwork it wasn't too bad at all. (Possibly relevant: this is a state where probate is happy to take a family settlement agreement in lieu of any accounting if all beneficiaries are signed off) Neat, none of the jurisdictions I'm licensed in have that option. She just kept taking out loans and not repaying them because she'd never had to manage her own finances before and assumed "this must be how everyone does it"
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Nov 17, 2022 02:18
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laxbro posted:Finally initiated the estate planning process. $2500 for a revocable trust which doesn't seem too bad. I also set up a "black" book in our password manager and made sure my wife knew it was there. It has gotta suck when the spouse who manages the finances/bills dies and never shared any of the account or login info with their spouse. Mine was $2250 so sounds like the price is right. Also agree with the password manager stuff, plus all the bills and everything else. Really important that you don't make it an impossible struggle for those you lever stuff to.
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Nov 17, 2022 06:48
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Hi thread. Was venting about a pretty messy situation in the legal A/T thread and was made aware this exists. Am getting my poo poo sorted ASAP, have left this way too long to be considered a responsible human adult. Don't suppose anyone has special knowledge of Canadian estate planning ITT?
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Dec 6, 2022 21:51
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Most posters here are American or European, but procedures frequently parallel so if you post the situation someone may be able to say words in response that are less than useless to you
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Dec 6, 2022 23:56
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Nonexistence posted:Most posters here are American or European, but procedures frequently parallel so if you post the situation someone may be able to say words in response that are less than useless to you Thanks. After reading through the thread, and being introduced to the idea of trusts (which looking into it do exist here as well), my partner and I are thinking that, instead of filling out the kit my "legal" consulting benefit from work provided, we're just going to a practice with specialization in estates. So there the only question I have right now is, of the two firms that come highly regarded, one is a small (2 attorney) practice just down the street, and the other a large (55 lawyers) local firm with an office several blocks away. As I see it, the small firm comes with the personal touch, whereas the larger firm is full service with estate planners, financial planers, etc, all on call although communication can go off sometimes and presumably is spendier. I've worked with the larger firm before on condo bylaw revisions so I'm leaning there but I'd be happy for the threads experiences with large vs. small practices.
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Dec 7, 2022 02:11
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Is this just a messy knot of estate bureaucracy that needs to be unwound or fiduciary litigation where you're out significant money if you lose?
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Dec 7, 2022 15:57
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Bilirubin posted:Thanks. After reading through the thread, and being introduced to the idea of trusts (which looking into it do exist here as well), my partner and I are thinking that, instead of filling out the kit my "legal" consulting benefit from work provided, we're just going to a practice with specialization in estates. So there the only question I have right now is, of the two firms that come highly regarded, one is a small (2 attorney) practice just down the street, and the other a large (55 lawyers) local firm with an office several blocks away. As I see it, the small firm comes with the personal touch, whereas the larger firm is full service with estate planners, financial planers, etc, all on call although communication can go off sometimes and presumably is spendier. I've worked with the larger firm before on condo bylaw revisions so I'm leaning there but I'd be happy for the threads experiences with large vs. small practices. 55 isn't all that large when it comes to law firms. You can still very much get the personal touch there. I'd assume the 2-person firm is slightly cheaper, but that's not always the case. I'd honestly go with whichever firm has people you feel more comfortable with on a personal level, unless there's a large disparity in hourly rates/flat fee rates for the work you're doing.
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Dec 7, 2022 21:44
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Nonexistence posted:Is this just a messy knot of estate bureaucracy that needs to be unwound or fiduciary litigation where you're out significant money if you lose? We have two issues at play. I'm just talking about setting up our own estate (which I have left undone for far too long) here. The other issue which triggered my exasperated post in legal is a different estate that needs to be settled. On that matter my partner is starting with a consultation with a lawyer in the jurisdiction relevant, and will go from there. Arcturas posted:55 isn't all that large when it comes to law firms. You can still very much get the personal touch there. I'd assume the 2-person firm is slightly cheaper, but that's not always the case. I'd honestly go with whichever firm has people you feel more comfortable with on a personal level, unless there's a large disparity in hourly rates/flat fee rates for the work you're doing. That's good to know! I have also heard back from the consulting company that oversees a workplace benefit that I have which provided the will kits that I also have my own free 30 minute consult with council about our specific needs, so I'll be checking them out too. It comes with a 25% discount with their firm should we go with them to write everything up, which would be nice for comparison if anyone posted their fee rates (nobody posts their fee rates).
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Dec 7, 2022 23:38
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Good firms and attorneys will absolutely tell you their hour rate or flat fee right away here in US.
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Dec 8, 2022 00:44
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You don't post your rate publicly anywhere because you want flexibility to change it willy-nilly and don't want your competitors to undercut you, but it will absolutely be the kind of thing you're very comfortable telling a potential client about in the first conversation.
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Dec 8, 2022 20:40
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Got the documents. The two houses were not in trust, so they have to go through probate. The will is a pour-over will, so they are going to go in the trust. Then the trust says "as soon as practicable after grantors death, trustee shall distribute, outright and free of trust" both the houses. Was her lawyer doing loop the loops for fun? Also it specifies per stirpes, so I guess disclaiming is pretty well out, unless the three year old wants to disclaim too
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Dec 20, 2022 02:55
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Evil SpongeBob posted:Good firms and attorneys will absolutely tell you their hour rate or flat fee right away here in US. Arcturas posted:You don't post your rate publicly anywhere because you want flexibility to change it willy-nilly and don't want your competitors to undercut you, but it will absolutely be the kind of thing you're very comfortable telling a potential client about in the first conversation. Just had our first meeting and it was one of the first things disclosed. And a very good rate was given to us via a work benefit, so will get this done shortly. A bit odd thinking about being dead but eh, will happen sooner than I want anyway so best to avoid the hell my partner's family are going through right now.
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Jan 20, 2023 06:55
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I'm meeting with an attorney today to set up a trust/will/advanced health directive for myself and my wife since we now own a house & have a kid. I'm fairly familiar with dealing with trusts from being the executor of one but any questions/things to look out for when setting it up initially?
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Mar 23, 2023 17:02
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Make sure backup fiduciaries make sense based on when you expect to pass or are updated later. Your wife and siblings make sense now, but might not in 30-50 years.
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Mar 23, 2023 17:28
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Ok, finally made an appointment that I've been needing to make since 1998 in 3 weeks. Sitting through my govt agency retirement class finally motivated me to get my thumb out of my rear end.
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Jun 9, 2023 00:23
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Mom wants to know what I think about doing a living trust through https://www.integratedtrustsystems.com. I guess the idea is that the documents are viewable and modifiable online, and also it's cheaper because it's in Nevada (out of state). Anybody heard of this or know if it's legit?
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Jul 15, 2023 23:29
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PerniciousKnid posted:Mom wants to know what I think about doing a living trust through https://www.integratedtrustsystems.com. I guess the idea is that the documents are viewable and modifiable online, and also it's cheaper because it's in Nevada (out of state). Anybody heard of this or know if it's legit? Just have them find a local lawyer.
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Jul 15, 2023 23:56
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PerniciousKnid posted:Mom wants to know what I think about doing a living trust through https://www.integratedtrustsystems.com. I guess the idea is that the documents are viewable and modifiable online, and also it's cheaper because it's in Nevada (out of state). Anybody heard of this or know if it's legit? Never heard of it. I would just get a local lawyer. Cheaping out on an estate plan to an out of state electronic platform that may not account for local rules seems like a false savings.
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Jul 16, 2023 17:22
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Buckle up, a long one. What a time to stumble upon this thread for me. I was just made aware of another predatory parasitic group in this world, Heir Hunters. (Which also is apparently a 12 season show in the UK doing exactly what I'm about to describe. I'm (Michigan resident) vacationing in Greece to see my Father (92, dual citizenship) and other family. Within the first half hour of my arriving at his home in a remote village a man in a car pulls up, I ask him who this is and he replies "Santa Clause". This man contacted him a few weeks ago about his first cousin passing in NY leaving an estate of $2.6M. My brother and I are dumbstruck and naturally cautious but decided to hear this guy out. He was not a very confident and competent speaker and waved a few documents and family trees that showed my father and his sister were the next of kin for this man with no children, no surviving wives, or siblings. Sounds good. In order for us to claim this, all my father has to do is sign this very simple engagement agreement that gives this firm 20% of everything he receives and a few other power of attorney type documents so they can represent him. I take the documents for my attorneys review (I'm pursuing claiming Greek citizenship and happen to have a dynamite attorney out of Chicago who knows US and Greek law very well). He puts some light pressure on saying that if my father doesn't sign the 20% agreement and passes, he loses his claim and the second cousins get next in line. If he does, somehow magically that secured his spot? Very suspicious. We send him on his way and instruct my aunt not to sign anything until we get a legal review. She is poor as hell so this would be huge for her. They (maybe not unreasonably) are in the position that who cares if these guys get $500k of a fortune they never knew they were having. But I was more concerned about the more nefarious risks they were potentially being exposed to. While waiting for my lawyers review I started googling the legal firms and named attorneys on all the docs. It was a patchwork of all different people and such that didn't make a lot of sense. A guy in the UK, one in NY, another in Paris, this "legal consultant" who visited us in Greece, which identified himself as a lawyer and executor of the estate. The former was quickly disproven and presume also not the executor. The firm at the top of the POA? One of the ones involved in that TV show with lots of grimacing looking people on their about us page. Aside from that, everyone else named all appeared to be attorneys and related to estate law. Spoke to my attorney the next day after he had a chance to review the docs. Said they were garbage. The estate process does not require such insane costs (in most cases an individual can just show up at the clerk and input their claim right there, done) and it's obvious this firm scrapes estate databases for potential marks, then uses their international network to go out and get people on the line for an off chance they are successful in getting the inheritance. From what we are seeing (have not looked at the estate yet in NY) there could still be a will or something in place that negates the claim. All of the power of attorney and assignment documents do not conform with US or Greek law for doing so and there is no retainer agreement with any of the law firms so everything is left wide open in terms of scope, charges, etc to my father. Even if they were on the up and up he foresees challenges to those documents down the line. In the most innocent of scenarios they string them along with false hope until they die. In more sinister they show back up in the village claiming they need another 1,000 euros for a filing fee and start that scam. I'm super glad I was there (my father probably scheduled it that way) and my spider senses were way up. Next step when I get back to the states is to see if I can access the estate myself at the clerk in the county this cousin lived in and see if there is actually the amount in it and if there's any reason to dig deeper. Then I'll likely hire a local NY attorney to do a proper analysis and see if there's anything worth pursuing. Take it from there. That's it, thought y'all might enjoy the story.
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Jul 18, 2023 08:06
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Had our first meeting with the attorney. Man, I wish we had done this when we were first married. Thankfully our financial situation is pretty simple.
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Jul 26, 2023 18:28
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My grandmother's estate is being handled by some tiny financial services company she'd been with for forty years (probably at an exorbitant rate). Us grandkids are getting a small amount of a couple stocks, but the representative who I assume is executing the estate has indicated we're required to open accounts with them to receive the shares. Doesn't sound right to me... surely they can transfer to an existing brokerage? It's possible that my mom's relaying things incorrectly, but it doesn't sound entirely on the up and up.
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Sep 6, 2023 03:00
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Ehh E-Trade required us to have accounts with them for the split (and then you could ask for transfer out immediately). Didn't seem too weird to me. On the other hand I was doing all the paperwork, not a 3rd party company.
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Sep 6, 2023 03:26
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Cugel the Clever posted:My grandmother's estate is being handled by some tiny financial services company she'd been with for forty years (probably at an exorbitant rate). Us grandkids are getting a small amount of a couple stocks, but the representative who I assume is executing the estate has indicated we're required to open accounts with them to receive the shares. Doesn't sound right to me... surely they can transfer to an existing brokerage? If the accounts they make you open are with a legitimate broker dealer AND you're not restricted to hold them there after the transfer, I immediately can't think of any harm here. Don't use that statement as assurance though. I didn't think it all the way through.
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Sep 6, 2023 03:28
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I finally talked to a lawyer today about estate planning - about 7 years later than I planned to (that's when our first kid was born). It feels good to have the ball rolling on this. I hadn't considered a trust as something I would need for estate planning. I figured we didn't have a big enough estate to need one, but it sounds pretty normal in our area to avoid probate delays and direct money appropriately. Very glad to be working with a professional who understands everything way more than I do and can explain it to me in easy-to-understand terms.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:36
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We had our second of three meetings last week. We have 1 kid and no house or businesses. No one we want to exclude if all 3 of us go. Our package also comes with the medical directives. So we got to talk about what to do if we're vegetables or have dementia. $3300 for 2 trusts (one for insurance and assets, one for 401k and IRA) plus all the medical stuff. Our only hiccup is we want vanguard to be co-trustee so there is someone keeping an eye on the executor and the executor won't have direct access to the money. Our lawyer didn't like that the trust would be in PA as we're in CA. He said he'd call vanguard and hopefully that works out.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:58
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Backup trustee or trust protector/independent trustee might work better than co-trustee for that. Essentially the trustee can do their thing but there's an institutional watchdog if administration gets squirrelly.
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Sep 13, 2023 22:20
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