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Naked Bear posted:Just lol if you're still in. 6 years, 8 months, 1 week to go… 😭
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Mar 24, 2022 04:44
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Naked Bear posted:Just lol if you're still in. I’ve been home from Afghanistan for 10 years next month, and out of the army for 10 years in Sept. 
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Mar 24, 2022 12:14
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Retired for 23 years this July. 
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Mar 24, 2022 12:41
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Cat Army
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Oxygenpoisoning posted:New ACFT information. Leg tucks are out, planks are in. It now as gender and age brackets. Still completely asinine. Nice to see they kept the really important, combat-relevant events (i.e., the backwards overhead throw and the 2-mile run).
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Mar 24, 2022 12:43
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If we can't demonstrate a soldier's capability to just loving send it, do we even have an Army?
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Mar 24, 2022 12:52
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They’re really dead set on keeping the event that like every fitness expert begged them to take out, huh (the 2-mile)ASAPI posted:Wasn't the original idea "take all or most of the events or GTFO"? I don’t know if army medical is able to work faster than navy med, but if the Marines had demanded I do every single fitness test event in the 18 months it took to get my hip surgery, that surgeon would have had a lot more damage to repair.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:25
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Internet Wizard posted:They’re really dead set on keeping the event that like every fitness expert begged them to take out, huh (the 2-mile) e: I take it back vvvvvv Naked Bear fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 14:45
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During the overhead yeet I'm just going to slam the medicine ball directly into my face over and over again.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:54
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Looks like they got rid of the practice throw as well, now it's just two record throws. They also made the minimum harder. I could barely do it before because I'm a horribly uncoordinated nerd, can't wait to have to practice throwing a ball backwards over my head to not fail my pt test.
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Mar 24, 2022 18:22
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Reading through the comments about the new ACFT, I've come across the possibly the most galaxy-brained take of all. Basically that male to female Soldiers will be able to max the female standards of the ACFT and get promoted faster than everyone else. I mean, of all the things to be worried about... Also, the plank seems harder than the leg tuck.
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Mar 25, 2022 00:12
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PeterCat posted:the plank seems harder than the leg tuck. Yes. Knocking out 1 leg tuck and being done is easy.
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Mar 25, 2022 01:30
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Internet Wizard posted:I don’t know if army medical is able to work faster than navy med, but if the Marines had demanded I do every single fitness test event in the 18 months it took to get my hip surgery, that surgeon would have had a lot more damage to repair.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:03
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PeterCat posted:Reading through the comments about the new ACFT, I've come across the possibly the most galaxy-brained take of all. Seems. If you’ve got good grip strength and upper-body strength the tucks are trivial. Women, just as a goddamn fact, generally have less grip strength and upper body strength. I’m not screaming  thems are just the breaks. That leg tuck was cutting through the ARNG and Reserves like a scythe too- but under this system it looks like the two mile run is the new discriminator. Color me shocked.
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Mar 25, 2022 02:24
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Getting 60 points on the leg tuck as a guy was easier than planks, because you could get 60 points in about 2 seconds. I got to where I could (barely) max the leg tuck event, being sure that if nothing else the plank would be merely an alternate event. Now I guess I need to go plank. Passing is no problem at all, maxxing seems pretty miserable and a mind game for which I have not prepared. It makes sense that they trashed the event that was just "gently caress you, women," the event. During diagnostics over the last couple years, I've seen so many young guys just smashing the dead lift and the sprint drag carry and then just... outright quitting or failing the 2 mile run. Just.. just move your legs, guys, the passing pace is really slow!
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Mar 26, 2022 15:26
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spacetoaster posted:lol, why not just keep the APFT? Because situps can go gently caress themselves
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Mar 26, 2022 15:30
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Sit-ups were my best event.
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Mar 26, 2022 15:46
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Situps were simultaneously my beat event and the event that is the worst.
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Mar 26, 2022 15:47
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Ya know it's been a while since I've ground stones and dirt in to my tailbone until it bleeds. Nope. Still don't miss it.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:41
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APFT, but with crunches instead of situps. I think I just saved America.
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Mar 26, 2022 18:53
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mlmp08 posted:Getting 60 points on the leg tuck as a guy was easier than planks, because you could get 60 points in about 2 seconds. I got to where I could (barely) max the leg tuck event, being sure that if nothing else the plank would be merely an alternate event. Now I guess I need to go plank. Passing is no problem at all, maxxing seems pretty miserable and a mind game for which I have not prepared. It's quite amazing that they spent all this money and time to implement a test that is supposed to measure strength and combat readiness and whatever better than the APFT, and the result is... an easier test to pass. 140 deadlift, then a 6m ball throw, 10 hand release pushups, 2:40 for the sprint drag carry, a 1:10 plank (which is the suckiest event because I can't put forth absolutely minimal effort), and finally a drat near walkable 22 minute 2 mile run. I had to at least keep a reasonable base level of fitness to do 36 pushups, 45 situps, and a 17 minute 2 mile run. That was kind of the brilliance of the APFT; it was a decent measure of overall fitness with no equipment required.
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Apr 3, 2022 16:23
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I personally am stronger and faster after having trained to the ACFT vs the APFT. Getting the bare minimum ACFT score is going to be seen the same way as getting a 180 on the AFPT: Pretty damned bad! there's no real punishment (for now), but the goal in our unit is 500 points on the ACFT for leadership, which takes some real effort and roundedness. Also the test is maybe easy for people who have done APFTs and been in for years, but looking at the test numbers, people are failing the ACFT left and right. Even young dudes are just straight quitting or failing the very slow run because they get loving smoked by the deadlift and sprint drag carry. The ACFT standard 2 mile run is the most failed event.
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Apr 3, 2022 16:48
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mlmp08 posted:The ACFT standard 2 mile run is the most failed event. Probably because it's loving idiotic. No, go ahead, commission a study to determine the best run distance for determining aerobic fitness. Then have dipshit SMA Chandler stick his dick in it and we end up back at 2 miles because something something extra mile something heart. loving boomers. Nimmy posted:I had to at least keep a reasonable base level of fitness to do 36 pushups, 45 situps, and a 17 minute 2 mile run. That was kind of the brilliance of the APFT; it was a decent measure of overall fitness with no equipment required. The APFT is an absolute dogshit way of measuring "overall fitness" for anything besides doing pushups, situps, and an unweighted jog. Precisely none of which are relevant to the modern military. The Army's approach to physical fitness is a complete dumpster fire that, though not solely responsible for the insane litany of ruinous injuries to soldiers that nobody will take ownership for, precisely enables its perpetuation. Half-assed bullshit like the Master Fitness Trainer Course pays lip service to reality while serving as another way to completely absolve anyone of true accountability over the situation. The (actual) minimum combat load for today's forces require literally just more musculature on soldiers to stabilize, distribute, and bear the weight without disintegrating everything from the neck down. Outside of very specific roles, who the gently caress is running a Mog Mile in actual combat anymore? With 50lbs of poo poo jingling along playing their spines like a meat slinky? I was halfway through writing a thesis and grant proposal while I was still in undergrad on the entire litany of bullshit this 1920s zero investment minimum effort approach to physical fitness continues to absolutely loving kneecap a truly effective fighting force. Being a medic, seeing the consequences of this poo poo firsthand while in, and getting a degree in this after I got out has not helped the blinding anger at aaallllll.
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Apr 3, 2022 19:05
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Diarrhea Elemental posted:Probably because it's loving idiotic. No, go ahead, commission a study to determine the best run distance for determining aerobic fitness. Then have dipshit SMA Chandler stick his dick in it and we end up back at 2 miles because something something extra mile something heart. loving boomers. I'm nearly out and I'm trying to get by with the minimum PT effort so I don't give myself a permanent injury prior to retiring, but what existing workout programs would you point people to to better be able to Army? If any?
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Apr 3, 2022 19:20
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Diarrhea Elemental posted:Probably because it's loving idiotic. No, go ahead, commission a study to determine the best run distance for determining aerobic fitness. Then have dipshit SMA Chandler stick his dick in it and we end up back at 2 miles because something something extra mile something heart. loving boomers. I understand the frustration, especially with how we invest in MFTs and then tell them to just go run special conditioning PT and tell broken people to walk around the AO or something. But there has to be SOME test. Training specifically to the APFT led to awful results, but PT wasn't supposed to be just APFT prep every day. It was, but it shouldn't have been. So they moved to the ACFT so people would actually do diverse workouts. Remains to be seen if it'll do anything. I've been in the Army awhile, so I suspect not. But your combat load argument isn't really relevant. Is the APFT a measure of whether a dismounted infantryman can go on a 2 day mission? No, obviously not. It's not really meant for them. Most people aren't carrying a 50lb combat load, even in the combat arms. There are more stryker and armor units for 11Bs and 19Ds than dismounted units. Artillery rolls around in vehicles. The test really, honestly, should be seen the same way as 600-9: we need some kind of minimum fitness standard, so here is one. If your unit has to ruck around with a 50lb combat load, those CDRs have a responsibility to train to that beyond the minimum PT standards. Or maybe they could have a separate combat test like the Marine Corps has. Anyway, I don't really care what the test is, I'm stupid and still in, so I'll do whatever dumb poo poo they make me do. Could a 1 mile or a 1.5 mile run be better? Sure, maybe. You probably know better than I do. Marines basically do the APFT with pull ups and a 3 mile run, is that better? Worse? I don't know. But it doesn't really matter as long as the Army isn't breaking soldiers. And the new 7-22 definitely is much better than PRT, and is explicit about not running soldiers to death every day.
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Apr 3, 2022 19:38
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PeterCat posted:I'm nearly out and I'm trying to get by with the minimum PT effort so I don't give myself a permanent injury prior to retiring, but what existing workout programs would you point people to to better be able to Army? If any? I watch a lot of Mark Wildman on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MarkWildman He is a big proponent of kettlebells, clubs and maces. Apparently club swinging was actually really common up until like WW2. I find now that I work on a computer all day, club swinging helps fix my posture in my back and shoulders. Whether or not it will help you Army I don't know. I sometimes think about how my enlistment might have gone different had I been given the tools to fix my deficiencies. I will admit I couldn't ruck (as an 11B) but none of my leadership was interested in or able to actually help me get better. There were other guys, including an E-5 that couldn't run well and we would go on "NAME fallout runs" meant to embarrass him I guess. At the time I don't think fartlek runs were a thing but no one was interested in actually training to get better, just run more! Tell him he doesn't have heart lol I wish I was joking about that. Oddly enough it wasn't until my second deployment where a guy who was into MMA (he actually had a record) helped me come up with a work out plan that got me better at rucking. A lot of lower back and quads but gently caress I didn't know better.
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Apr 3, 2022 19:43
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PeterCat posted:I'm nearly out and I'm trying to get by with the minimum PT effort so I don't give myself a permanent injury prior to retiring, but what existing workout programs would you point people to to better be able to Army? If any? That's... let's just say, little bit of a broad question. Super tl;dr answer? Mostly traditional strength training and strongman type poo poo (carries, loading, etc) with interval-style cardio and circuit work to cover the rest. Those things are actual "preventative maintenance" in the sense that they make your body more resistant to getting loving wrecked out of nowhere. Honestly, it's the same answer I'd give to this: Nimmy posted:I understand the frustration, especially with how we invest in MFTs and then tell them to just go run special conditioning PT and tell broken people to walk around the AO or something. But there has to be SOME test. Training specifically to the APFT led to awful results, but PT wasn't supposed to be just APFT prep every day. It was, but it shouldn't have been. So they moved to the ACFT so people would actually do diverse workouts. Remains to be seen if it'll do anything. I've been in the Army awhile, so I suspect not. The majority of the emphasis should placed on all the qualities that take deep time to develop like building actual muscle and training your brain and CNS how to use that muscle the most efficient and powerful way possible. Cardiovascular fitness drops off like an absolute rock, but the corollary is that it bounces back like lightning given a little dedicated graduated effort to rebuild. Units that are on GRF or other short notice obligations need to maintain that minimum cardio requirement at a higher level, but the average shmuck stuck CONUS doesn't. Moving to something more MOS-specific would be a hell of a lot better, more as a kind of "category" than each individual job. There's a whole bunch of motherfuckers like arty that have to be able to load (in the sense of picking poo poo up), carry, pivot, and transfer poo poo like 155 rounds, and what in the absolute gently caress is some dumbfuck ring knocker's half-assed CrossFit routine going to do to develop the necessary physical ability to do that job better and faster and not have it break them down? My entire combat load argument is just a tiny facet of this systemic issue. Bang bangs aren't intel aren't cooks aren't... You see where I'm going with this? The bolded parts are the real problem here. The minimum for light infantry and the minimum for Gollum pulling 12+ every day in a SCIF bear no resemblance to each other. Trying to connect the two only breeds more hosed up nonsensical PT poo poo. The Army is breaking soldiers every single day, and no loving manual is going to change foundational institutional problems without real accountability and sea change in the physical fitness culture. Wrong Theory posted:I sometimes think about how my enlistment might have gone different had I been given the tools to fix my deficiencies. I will admit I couldn't ruck (as an 11B) but none of my leadership was interested in or able to actually help me get better. There were other guys, including an E-5 that couldn't run well and we would go on "NAME fallout runs" meant to embarrass him I guess. At the time I don't think fartlek runs were a thing but no one was interested in actually training to get better, just run more! Tell him he doesn't have heart lol I wish I was joking about that. Oddly enough it wasn't until my second deployment where a guy who was into MMA (he actually had a record) helped me come up with a work out plan that got me better at rucking. A lot of lower back and quads but gently caress I didn't know better. And there's the perfect example to prove my last sentence.
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Apr 3, 2022 20:25
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I have plates and screws generously donated to my foot by the Army because "lol just run more that's the answer" and the only question that remains for my back is "When will the fusion happen?" because all the stupid as gently caress exercise they had me do didn't mean poo poo to bouncing around with 80 pounds riding directly on my shoulders. I was a one-hit-quit enlisted, not a life sentence, those people have got to be straight up crippled by the time they're done it's insane.
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Apr 3, 2022 20:42
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I'm going to raise an issue that is semantics really, but a pet peeve 50lbs of kit was typical daily poo poo poo poo for a Grunt in Iraq, and we weren't always running from vehicles. 50lbs is completely in the realm of what a trooper would wear on patrol factoring in all the kit- webbing, armor, helmet, NVGs, weapons, medical supplies, logistical poo poo spread through the squad, like linked ammo. Is it an always thing? No. But it's more common that you realize when you factor in your PPE weighs 20-25lbs on it's own.
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Apr 4, 2022 02:00
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The biggest load of poo poo I ever had to swallow was the "train as we fight" bullshit. Yeah, of course. Lets do that. I was a loving mechanic, why am I doing a 20k ruck in full battle rattle and a 203? If I'm doing force marches as a 'H8 to an objective we are hosed. If I wasn't mounted I clearly wasn't very good at my job. thanks for the disability for my back tho. Can't wait till I'm "old enough: in the eyes of the VA to do the fusion.
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Apr 4, 2022 02:59
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Carteret posted:The biggest load of poo poo I ever had to swallow was the "train as we fight" bullshit. Yeah, of course. Lets do that. I was a loving mechanic, why am I doing a 20k ruck in full battle rattle and a 203? I only did my Army job 1 1/2 times (the 1/2 was not my MOS, but at least it was work that mattered) in a setting that really mattered. My time in Germany at least had me doing my MOS and the worst of the bullshit was kept to a minimum. Stateside I barely did my MOS and there was lots of extra nonsense (road marches, a month of grass duty, the usual bullshit) that made me long for my ETS date. The only time I actually enjoyed my enlistment was when I was deployed doing something that actually mattered. Everything else was at best boredom, and at worse bred resentment. I hosed my knees up, but at least I managed to avoid wrecking my back. Seriously, what the gently caress good is a 63 series MOS going to contribute to the army in a road march, or pulling security on a perimeter? Those wrenches aren't going to turn themselves.
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Apr 4, 2022 03:29
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A.o.D. posted:Seriously, what the gently caress good is a 63 series MOS going to contribute to the army in a road march, or pulling security on a perimeter? Those wrenches aren't going to turn themselves. Yeah, sure thing top. While half the company is deadlined due to services, lets just spend this WHOLE DAY doing training (?!?!) instead of our actual jobs. I'm sure we'll all understand why we have to work until 23:00 to catch up. LOL just kidding we ran out of budget to buy parts because you wanted to do a 2 week long DECON exercise.
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Apr 4, 2022 03:53
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bulletsponge13 posted:I'm going to raise an issue that is semantics really, but a pet peeve It’s worth noting that a whole rear end suit of plate armor was about 50 lbs, and that had the weight distributed across the entire body. It’s also possible to identify the skeletons of knights based on both the wear and tear and the increased density and robustness of the muscle attachment points. Even in the medieval period it was understood that wearing that amount of weight was something that somebody prepares for over the course of years.
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Apr 4, 2022 05:16
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Internet Wizard posted:It’s worth noting that a whole rear end suit of plate armor was about 50 lbs, and that had the weight distributed across the entire body. It’s also possible to identify the skeletons of knights based on both the wear and tear and the increased density and robustness of the muscle attachment points. Even in the medieval period it was understood that wearing that amount of weight was something that somebody prepares for over the course of years. No disagreement- as someone who wore 40+lbs of kit through several Iraqi summers, hearing 50lbs being unrealistic struck me as an irritant. Ask me about my arthritis. No, it's not healthy. I don't think the current PT system is adequate- I think the three tier test for combat, combat support, and service support should be introduced, along with annual soldier tasks tests. I think making fitness instructor an MOS and assigned at the Battalion level. This would allow them to tune a system to each unit, because I agree with the major sentiment expressed. There is no reason an Intel dude should have to ruck 12 miles.
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Apr 4, 2022 06:19
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A.o.D. posted:Sit-ups were my best event. I think the leg tuck was revenge for all the folks hitting the gym who struggled with the sit-ups because their upper bodies were so big; I struggled with the tuck because I have long legs and emphasized cardio. At least we'll both have the plank now. I look forward to the explanation of which combat application that has!
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Apr 4, 2022 07:03
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Bell_ posted:I think the leg tuck was revenge for all the folks hitting the gym who struggled with the sit-ups because their upper bodies were so big; I struggled with the tuck because I have long legs and emphasized cardio. I found that the leg tuck was a matter of technique. Lean your head back while you do it and it helps balance your legs.
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Apr 4, 2022 07:07
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Bell_ posted:Same, but while I maxed the event often I frequently feel in my back all the times I did them on pavement or slammed my back down for more repetitions. We usually had PT mats when we did situps.  It wasn't so bad.
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Apr 4, 2022 11:07
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bird food bathtub posted:I have plates and screws generously donated to my foot by the Army because "lol just run more that's the answer" and the only question that remains for my back is "When will the fusion happen?" because all the stupid as gently caress exercise they had me do didn't mean poo poo to bouncing around with 80 pounds riding directly on my shoulders. I was a one-hit-quit enlisted, not a life sentence, those people have got to be straight up crippled by the time they're done it's insane. If you're like me, probably around age 51.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:19
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bulletsponge13 posted:I'm going to raise an issue that is semantics really, but a pet peeve Yeah, seriously. My IOTV with plates weighed 35 pounds all on its own (size large), that's not even including anything else.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:45
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I needed an XL just to fit my gigantic head and shoulders in, and it was 42 pounds. gently caress that thing
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Apr 4, 2022 14:52
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CrossFit has probably cost the VA hundreds of millions in disability benefits alone.
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