- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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hipsters are using these right now:
typescript
angular or react
the ever-moving target that is "modern C++"
I think nodejs still counts as hipster??
I don't think Zig has hit hipster status, but it might get there once they write some documentation
clojure going by my coworkers
i was into clojure back in 2014, no way it's still hipster
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Jan 21, 2022 03:39
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May 10, 2024 16:19
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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typescript is pretty strong
until it compiles
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Apr 23, 2022 00:53
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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wasm still aint quite there. but i am counting the days.
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Apr 23, 2022 18:53
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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What is the appeal of VSCode over VS? I tried VSCode and got pretty mad at computers about it.
much lighter weight, equivalent functionality for not-.NET-languages.
e: including Visual C++ as a .NET language3 here. if you use Visual C unironically you have way worse problems to deal with.
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Apr 23, 2022 19:33
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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Probably Python. This was a couple years ago at this point.
i dont have a problem generally when i use the python extension, it sucks but you might have to janitor it a bit if you're not getting the autocomplete etc you'd expect
nah, your experience is accurate. linuxes are just so loving bad when it comes to quality software that something barely competent like vscode is a revelation to linux users.
the competitors to vscode are things like vim and emacs and xcode, not VS
no, the competitor to vscode is jetbrains' solution to a particular framework.
e: and sublime text i guess but vs code really ended that battle lol
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Apr 23, 2022 20:15
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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im a .net dev on linux ama
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Apr 23, 2022 20:37
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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yikes
e: I mean, I target linux with Core and all that, but you can pry Visual Studio from my cold dead hands
ee: Also, if Visual Studio ever loving becomes an electron piece of poo poo because cross platform, I'ma be super loving pissed.
visual studio is only 'as good' as jetbrains rider imho nowadays. i dont use all the memory profiling features anymore to be fair.
but lol, lmao if you use windows' docker to loving spin up your services and poo poo.
e: fwiw i love visual studio too, but competition is really catching up if it hasnt already caught up
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Apr 23, 2022 20:57
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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hipsters write fortran with their portable keypunches in coffee shops and call a pager number to have a courier come get the card deck and run it on a 1401 emulated on a pi and then bring them the greenbar and output deck back to wherever they happen to be 8 hours later.
i unironically want this so loving bad
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Apr 25, 2022 15:42
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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there honestly isn't a business case for writing server software in anything except javascript/typescript.
1. if you write reasonably complex things for the web you have to know javascript. even if you use a fancy dan transpilation language like elm or clojurescript or whatever you still gotta know the underlying js or you are in for a world of hurt and you can't use anyone else's poo poo
2. if you want your cool react web app to work properly for crawlers you need to do universal rendering, so the server has to do javascript anyway
3. backends are just a thin, easy layer of glue between your front end, totally managed PaaSes, auth providers and hosted serverless databases/document stores so it's insane to break out another language for that anyway. edge compute is amazing now, essentially a bit of browser that you can trust. and a lot of the time you can eliminate backend code entirely
4. why would you make it so any percentage of your team couldn't work on any part of the project, because:
5. if you can get, effectively, a mid-level full stack engineer for the price (and ubiquity) of a javascript developer you would be a raving madman not to
i hate it, really, i like being a polyglot and i keep going at work 'hey wow elixir is really cool and performant' and 'rust sure has a lot of people who are in to it hey' and they're like ahahah yeah get back to typescripting. and they're right
so do you do anything except build crud apis or
e: this sounds meaner than i meant it to im sorry
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Apr 25, 2022 16:56
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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posts like once a month but they're always bangers
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Apr 25, 2022 22:52
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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if it doesn't have or use any kind of user interface you could make a case. most software does, though, and good luck selling that it shouldn't be the one everyone already has installed on every screen in their home/car/rocketship, has zero installation friction and no gatekeepers wanting a cut
fortunately it seems like a lot of paas providers these days just do complexity arbitrage on the other harder to use paas providers
i think that people's use of the word 'trivial' is an awesome shibboleth for determining if someone is a mid or senior engineer and something i look for when i interview applicants. mid levels will use 'trivial' dismissively. but trivial means obvious when it's wrong, cheap to debug and comprehensible by non-technicals. so a senior understands that when something is trivial it is a gift from the solution designer and will use it reverently. and a good solution designer understands that their job is to minimise complexity from the top down, to run to ground requirements that prevent software from being trivial.
we finished a project last year that does $20-200 million a day of business at national scale, that turned a BU trying to make a profit to a BU trying to be a billion dollar company. there aren't many people who would describe that as trivial. but it was a full on JAMstack app on Next.js.
the amount of things that javascript doesn't have a best in class library for is almost nothing and rapidly shrinking. because it has the most engineers. because it has the most companies. because it has the most engineers to recruit and libraries to use. it's not even the cheapest at this point, it's just being able to recruit full stop.
as i said, i wish this wasn't the case, but as someone whose job includes making a business case internally and to clients, it is very difficult. you can't really put 'fuzzy happy feelings and a few cents of computer savings' against 'being able to hire both now and in 25 years' and 'having all the work already done for you for free six times'. the clients' job is to increase profits and reduce risk, right?
you sound like that one spotify dude who constantly talked about how nodejs was the most productive way to program, just not in any measurable way.
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Apr 26, 2022 01:23
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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oh lol i get it now
i hear part of what you're saying re: recruitment, but tbqh most of the problem i think with getting 'top talent' isn't the numbers, but more around actually paying the people who know poo poo well enough they accept. even when we were looking just for swift devs we'd have bites, they just avoided accepting (rightly so or whatevs). i dont think, imo, typescript avoids that as a full stack thing.
but i understand there's lots and that matters. the good news is i dont deal with clients i work in house. gently caress yea
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Apr 26, 2022 01:44
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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why do you believe you need two separate front end and backend teams?
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Apr 26, 2022 02:12
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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why do decision makers believe you need two separate teams if you use two separate languages, you mean? because i certainly don't.
they believe it because of risk/scaling and politics.
it's more risky to need a thing that does two things than a thing that does one. it's harder to find a thing that does two things if you want a lot of things done. a thing that does two things is probably not as good at doing each of the things as a thing that does one thing.
and if there are two types of things, that's a power vacuum some up-and-comer can carve out from their kingdom, then hold the project hostage with
both of these are sensible concerns and reasonable arguments. of course they are respectively wrong and irrelevant – the best team is about 2-4 highly skilled engineers, which is our general pattern. but they can't do what we do otherwise they wouldn't need us. they want to manage, that's why they manage, and they want to manage a lot because then they get a lot of money and importance.
and the only reason why we are able to do what we do, fielding a number of highly skilled engineers for a variety of clients and projects, is we specialise on typescript which is what is available in terms of talent and what clients demand.
combine that with the fact that in typescript land you have multiple entire technologies that eliminate needing any kind of backend code entirely and it's a fait accompli
it really sounds like your problem here is being put in situations where you're told to accept typescript, vs. actually being one of the decision makers supporting it
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Apr 26, 2022 02:44
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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believing typescript is going away in 3 years feels antithetical to your core point doesnt it?
not being argumentative but like, one of your pieces here was that it had teeth
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Apr 26, 2022 03:05
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May 10, 2024 16:19
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- Radia
- Jul 14, 2021
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And someday, together.. We'll shine.
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thank you for the good chat and perspective. not sure i agree but i think i understand the rich folks perspective there
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Apr 26, 2022 03:43
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Jan 21, 2022 03:39
