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TheNakedJimbo
Nov 18, 2004

If you die first, I am definitely going to eat you. The question is, if I die first...what are YOU gonna do?
The last campaign was awesome and I'm sure this one will be too. If the IAF Legal Officer position is open, I'm happy to jump on it. I'm not some expert on international law, but I've studied modern middle eastern history and represented Israel at the Model United Nations, so I feel I have a pretty good handle on their attitude (particularly around 1990).

I assume a lot of flying buffs know this already, but there may be someone who doesn't: Israel has no problem stirring the pot with controversial activities. In 1981 they launched Operation Opera, flying hundreds of miles into Iraq to destroy a nuclear reactor (and violating Saudi airspace in the process). This made Iraq mad enough that they ended up lobbing SCUD missiles at Israel during the Gulf War.

So there's a pretty good snapshot of Israel's attitude toward the international community around this time: an intense (and, in their view, necessary) devotion to pragmatism in the interest of defending the country, and if the international community disagrees, that's a mild inconvenience, because Israel's existence is more important than some eggheads in the UN saying mean words in the General Assembly.

(There's an amusing duality in the way Israel presented itself on the world stage at this time. To the US and its other allies, Israel presents itself as weak: "We need your help because we're massively outnumbered and Nasser keeps talking about how he wants to push us into the sea!" To its enemies, Israel presents itself as strong: "You don't want to mess with us, because you know our army is better than yours." Israel's onetime foreign minister Abba Eban referred to this duality as "Samson the nerd.")

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Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!

TheNakedJimbo posted:

The last campaign was awesome and I'm sure this one will be too. If the IAF Legal Officer position is open, I'm happy to jump on it. I'm not some expert on international law, but I've studied modern middle eastern history and represented Israel at the Model United Nations, so I feel I have a pretty good handle on their attitude (particularly around 1990).

I assume a lot of flying buffs know this already, but there may be someone who doesn't: Israel has no problem stirring the pot with controversial activities. In 1981 they launched Operation Opera, flying hundreds of miles into Iraq to destroy a nuclear reactor (and violating Saudi airspace in the process). This made Iraq mad enough that they ended up lobbing SCUD missiles at Israel during the Gulf War.

So there's a pretty good snapshot of Israel's attitude toward the international community around this time: an intense (and, in their view, necessary) devotion to pragmatism in the interest of defending the country, and if the international community disagrees, that's a mild inconvenience, because Israel's existence is more important than some eggheads in the UN saying mean words in the General Assembly.

(There's an amusing duality in the way Israel presented itself on the world stage at this time. To the US and its other allies, Israel presents itself as weak: "We need your help because we're massively outnumbered and Nasser keeps talking about how he wants to push us into the sea!" To its enemies, Israel presents itself as strong: "You don't want to mess with us, because you know our army is better than yours." Israel's onetime foreign minister Abba Eban referred to this duality as "Samson the nerd.")

We would absolutely love to have you!

While we will do most significant decisions and game posts in this thread, small details are usually waxed in the discord.

Furthermore, it’d be awesome if you could hit me up in Air Goons discord so I can give you the out of character info you need for this. I’m one of the obvious green names on discord, dm me.

Das Panzer
Nov 11, 2016
Potentially stupid question, but I didn't see it on my first read-thru of the first post; is there a link to the previous campaign here on the forums?

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!

Das Panzer posted:

Potentially stupid question, but I didn't see it on my first read-thru of the first post; is there a link to the previous campaign here on the forums?

Here you go!

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3989829

TheNakedJimbo
Nov 18, 2004

If you die first, I am definitely going to eat you. The question is, if I die first...what are YOU gonna do?


Hello, pilots!

This is Major General Moshe Sabra, head of the IDF's legal department.


There are clipboards being passed around the room at the moment; please find your name and sign to indicate that you've received today's training. I know that sitting through a legal briefing is the last thing you want to do at the moment, so I'll be as brief as I can. We must fight this war with our heads, not our hearts. I know many of you lost friends or family in 1967, so you have no special love for the Syrians.

But I must remind you that the international community is watching how we respond. We will do everything we can to minimize civilian casualties. Under no circumstances will you deliberately attack civilian targets. If any mission or mission objective is drawn up that I believe runs the risk of civilian casualties, I will veto it. These principles are non-negotiable. Israel is isolated enough on the world stage as is; we cannot run the risk of alienating any of our few remaining friends.

Is there anyone who still needs to sign? Good. Then you are dismissed, and may G-d grant you victory.

--

<<ooc>>

The photo in this post is Sharon Afek, the real-life head of the IDF's legal division, and the first openly gay major general in Israel's history.

So as the post made clear, my role is to cross-check all plans made and issue guidelines to protect Syrian (and Israeli, of course) civilians from harm. In 1990, Israel occupied a precarious position on the world stage. Popular sentiment in Arab countries was (as it still is) on the side of the Palestinians, and tensions with the Palestinian people were high, as the Oslo Accords were still several years in the future. In fact, conflict simmered just under the surface all across the middle east:
- Iran and Iraq had only just concluded a devastating ten-year-long war between them
- Jordan, the most moderate nation close to Israel, was under constant pressure to be more militant and aggressive toward Israel
- In real life, about five months after this scenario is set, Iraq would invade Kuwait and set off the chain of events that led to the Gulf War
- Egypt was still reeling from the 1981 assassination of Anwar Sadat, who was killed by Islamic extremists for concluding a peace treaty with Israel. His successor, Hosni Mubarak, affirmed the peace treaty and Egypt's relationship with Israel, but only in the face of opposition in his own country, leading to an Islamic fundamentalist movement forming in the early 1990s.

As such, Israel must tread lightly to keep from igniting the powder keg. They must act pragmatically to do what is necessary to win the war, but not at the cost of turning much of the world against them. It's an unenviable position for the pilots - and even more so for the politicians and their lawyers!

TheNakedJimbo fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 14, 2022

Das Panzer
Nov 11, 2016

Much appreciated, thank you!

TheNakedJimbo
Nov 18, 2004

If you die first, I am definitely going to eat you. The question is, if I die first...what are YOU gonna do?

Fivemarks posted:

Despite my love of planes, I do have a problem with an LP where you're playing as, effectively, a quasi fascist apartheid settler colonialist state.

I have some really, really bad news for you if you're looking at most wars throughout history and trying to separate the combatants into definite good guys and definite bad guys.

Imagine if the roles were flipped and goons were playing as Syria - a definitely fascist (imprisoning/killing enemies of the state) apartheid (a Shiite minority rules while the Sunni, Druze, and Kurdish minorities are systematically removed from power) genocidal (the Kurds say hi) racist (just google some of the things Syria's leaders have said about Jews) state.

With very few exceptions - and, knowing only as much as I personally know about the situation, I would say the current war between Russia and Ukraine is one of them - it's extremely rare to find a war where you can't make some kind of accusation against one side or the other. Your exact quote of "quasi fascist apartheid settler colonialist state" would apply VERBATIM to the United Kingdom in World War II, yet most people still consider them "the good guys" against Hitler.

CBJamo
Jul 15, 2012

Memo on additional tasking for Colt flights on Day 1

Aluf Yooper,

Initial planning indicated that Colt flights would need to carry external fuel. Detailed planning shows that the A-4's excellent fuel efficiency will allow us to carry weapons on all stations. The wing stations will be occupied by shrikes, but the centerline station is currently unassigned. This opens Colt flights for additional post-SEAD tasking if the commander desires. If there are no relevant tasks, Colt flight will default to using those extra weapons, probably clusters or rockets, for DEAD.

- Seren CBJamo, Colt 1-1

Weapons available on the A-4 centerline station:
Mk80 series iron bombs
- 1 2000lb
- 3 1000lb
- 6 500lb
- 6 250lb
3 Mk20 rockeye cluster
57 2.75in FFAR
12 5in Zuni

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

So I wanted to write an effortpost regarding the ethics of these campaigns. But I can't bring myself to it, so I'll try to squeeze out the highlights.


The IRL conflict is really loving with my mind. Very much so for IRL reasons and for essentially manifesting a bunch of nightmare scenarios I had hoped I wouldn't see. But it also turned very dark the perception of the last Goon campaign. You may recall that on Day 2 of that campaign, a "Not Russian" helicopter force had conquered a vital Georgian airfield behind our lines. The way how something that I had earlier seen as utter B-movie fantasy became prophetic is unsettling; even more so in a conflict that hour by hour started with uncanny resemblance to earlier European wars that were filmed in black and white.

Where this intersects with this campaign is that for a while, I've been bothered by the idea that DCS campaigns are essentially turning human suffering into an entertainment product. I've had a long talk about this with my girlfriend. She is good for talking trough dense material like that.

During that talk, I believe I realized that I see three primary motivations for participating in these campaigns: first, there is mastering complex processes and learning skills together. Performing the roles in the campaigns is more than just 'go there, do x': you are bound to watch endless videos about how things word, read about limitations and best practices, and training for all that. It's not real life, but mastery is mastery, and it's exhilarating particularly when you do it together.

Second is the alternative history aspect. It is like writing and consuming historical fiction. I am someone who sits at his computer at night reading about history and inventing sprawling 'what if' counterfactuals. My impression is that the campaign managers are like that, too. Because I'm playing a news room role this time, I have seen how deeply researched the campaigns on the storyboards. These campaigns involve deep, honest, and sincere study of historic events. Exploring the possible counterfactuals requires an understanding of the underlying historicalt rends. And if you want to make it realistic, you have to show empathy to the 'red' side and perceive them as human beings with rational motivations.

Third is, frankly, the shitposting. The players and makers of these campaigns are quite creative and if someone puts effort in making a funny contribution it really brings a smile to my face.

What is important: for me, these three aspects occur together, but they don't cross each other. With that I mean is there is plenty of alternative history writing, and plenty of shitposting, but these wires don't cross. No one is turning a conflict itself into a joke. People joke about running into each other on the runway. They don't joke about the real history that happened, or that might sill be coming. This is an important line.


It remains true that it's a little bit awkward to seek fulfillment in these three aspects in a war game of all places, but as far as I'm concerned this is true of all war games. If we had a search and rescue operator I'm sure hat we would be able to write beautiful search and rescue campaigns surrounding real and ficticious natural disasters and fly SAR-helos instead of warbirds. But video games be about conflict, so awkwardly or not that is were we our getting our mastery, history, and togetherness fix.



I needed to get that out there. I hope that when I feel less poo poo I can get back to prepping campaign lore.

jzilla
Apr 13, 2007

I feel a bit tone-deaf posting this after reading the previous post, but I finally got around to typing to this out after avoiding it for the same reasons Stimperor stated.



Hello, I am jzilla and I will be slotting into the role of Israeli Air Force Intelligence Officer. I will specifically be a part of the Air Intelligence Group, which is a subset of the Israeli military intelligence apparatus. This group also goes by Lamdan/LMDN.

Similar to the last campaign thread, a large part of my role as intelligence officer will be providing information and answering questions for flight leads and other roles involved in the campaign. Please ask those questions here. I will disseminate intel on the upcoming mission along with answering any questions. After missions are completed I will provide damage assessment and give an overview of what was achieved in the previous mission.

I don’t have anything to add to what Yooper has already posted at this point in time. In the next few days I will be adding info about the first stage of our campaign and the adversaries we will face in the air and on the ground.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


CBJamo posted:

Memo on additional tasking for Colt flights on Day 1

Aluf Yooper,

Initial planning indicated that Colt flights would need to carry external fuel. Detailed planning shows that the A-4's excellent fuel efficiency will allow us to carry weapons on all stations. The wing stations will be occupied by shrikes, but the centerline station is currently unassigned. This opens Colt flights for additional post-SEAD tasking if the commander desires. If there are no relevant tasks, Colt flight will default to using those extra weapons, probably clusters or rockets, for DEAD.

- Seren CBJamo, Colt 1-1

Weapons available on the A-4 centerline station:
Mk80 series iron bombs
- 1 2000lb
- 3 1000lb
- 6 500lb
- 6 250lb
3 Mk20 rockeye cluster
57 2.75in FFAR
12 5in Zuni

Excellent! For your additional ordnance please focus on primary tasking, DEAD. If you have excess on egress, expend it on an appropriate target while headed back. It's my expectation that you'll overfly a good deal of Syrian armor.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!

Lord Stimperor posted:

So I wanted to write an effortpost regarding the ethics of these campaigns. But I can't bring myself to it, so I'll try to squeeze out the highlights.


The IRL conflict is really loving with my mind. Very much so for IRL reasons and for essentially manifesting a bunch of nightmare scenarios I had hoped I wouldn't see. But it also turned very dark the perception of the last Goon campaign. You may recall that on Day 2 of that campaign, a "Not Russian" helicopter force had conquered a vital Georgian airfield behind our lines. The way how something that I had earlier seen as utter B-movie fantasy became prophetic is unsettling; even more so in a conflict that hour by hour started with uncanny resemblance to earlier European wars that were filmed in black and white.

Where this intersects with this campaign is that for a while, I've been bothered by the idea that DCS campaigns are essentially turning human suffering into an entertainment product. I've had a long talk about this with my girlfriend. She is good for talking trough dense material like that.

During that talk, I believe I realized that I see three primary motivations for participating in these campaigns: first, there is mastering complex processes and learning skills together. Performing the roles in the campaigns is more than just 'go there, do x': you are bound to watch endless videos about how things word, read about limitations and best practices, and training for all that. It's not real life, but mastery is mastery, and it's exhilarating particularly when you do it together.

Second is the alternative history aspect. It is like writing and consuming historical fiction. I am someone who sits at his computer at night reading about history and inventing sprawling 'what if' counterfactuals. My impression is that the campaign managers are like that, too. Because I'm playing a news room role this time, I have seen how deeply researched the campaigns on the storyboards. These campaigns involve deep, honest, and sincere study of historic events. Exploring the possible counterfactuals requires an understanding of the underlying historicalt rends. And if you want to make it realistic, you have to show empathy to the 'red' side and perceive them as human beings with rational motivations.

Third is, frankly, the shitposting. The players and makers of these campaigns are quite creative and if someone puts effort in making a funny contribution it really brings a smile to my face.

What is important: for me, these three aspects occur together, but they don't cross each other. With that I mean is there is plenty of alternative history writing, and plenty of shitposting, but these wires don't cross. No one is turning a conflict itself into a joke. People joke about running into each other on the runway. They don't joke about the real history that happened, or that might sill be coming. This is an important line.


It remains true that it's a little bit awkward to seek fulfillment in these three aspects in a war game of all places, but as far as I'm concerned this is true of all war games. If we had a search and rescue operator I'm sure hat we would be able to write beautiful search and rescue campaigns surrounding real and ficticious natural disasters and fly SAR-helos instead of warbirds. But video games be about conflict, so awkwardly or not that is were we our getting our mastery, history, and togetherness fix.



I needed to get that out there. I hope that when I feel less poo poo I can get back to prepping campaign lore.

You know I don't wish to steal your thunder at all, but I do want to say that I tried to write something similar and you essentially took the words out of my mouth, and in a more eloquent fashion said what I wanted to say.
Well put.

TheNakedJimbo
Nov 18, 2004

If you die first, I am definitely going to eat you. The question is, if I die first...what are YOU gonna do?

Lord Stimperor posted:

Where this intersects with this campaign is that for a while, I've been bothered by the idea that DCS campaigns are essentially turning human suffering into an entertainment product. I've had a long talk about this with my girlfriend. She is good for talking trough dense material like that.

Broadly speaking this is true of most entertainment, isn't it? "Titanic" commodified the real-life deaths of a thousand+ people and turned their suffering into the background for a fictional love story. "The Godfather" commodified the real-life suffering of people affected by Mafia violence and corruption. Most if not all fiction hinges on an event that has been traumatic for real-life people - the death of a father in "The Lion King" and "Bambi," the Vietnam War in "Forrest Gump," unjust imprisonment in "The Shawshank Redemption" - and appropriates those events in the name of entertainment. It's hard to tell a story without conflict, but whatever type of conflict you choose, it's something that has happened to a real person in real life and has caused physical or emotional pain to them.

I will say that I have a very similar opinion to yours about one particular thing: Halloween. I don't object to Halloween for any sort of religious reason; rather, there's so much actual human suffering and terror in the world that it's extremely questionable of us to artificially manufacture more and then throw a party for it. If you want to be scared, google some statistics about human trafficking or child hunger or climate change. Watching a horror movie or going to a haunted house is kind of dishonest: people want the emotional rush that comes with feeling scared, but without the moral imperative to actually do something about the really scary things in the world.

Before you ask, no, I am not fun at parties, because I'm an introvert and I'd rather be home with a book.

TheNakedJimbo fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Feb 26, 2022

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!
We are sensitive to the events of the world. We just had in here some implications of all this and the concerns we all have. Happy to discuss it more here, or the thread. It's certainly on all of our minds.
The campaign will still happen on 5th of March, however.
I want everyone here to see or at least take a quick look at the extremely impressive work that Prime has done for this video. I think it warrants the hype. Please appreciate it and look at it.


The hype video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfoGRRN9VsU

mashed
Jul 27, 2004


:five:

Awesome work prime

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

The level of prep and the quality of the supplementary materials in these campaigns is astounding. I'm still trying to get head tracking to work properly and am still trying to learn to fly, but I really want to participate in one of these soon. I had a blast following along with the Georgian campaign.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Kesper North posted:

The level of prep and the quality of the supplementary materials in these campaigns is astounding. I'm still trying to get head tracking to work properly and am still trying to learn to fly, but I really want to participate in one of these soon. I had a blast following along with the Georgian campaign.

Ping me if you need a hand Kesper, AirGoons Discord is a good spot to start too.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Yooper posted:

Ping me if you need a hand Kesper, AirGoons Discord is a good spot to start too.

Thanks friend! Hopefully I won't have to work every weekend in March.

Snapshot
Oct 22, 2004

damnit Matt get in the boat

Kesper North posted:

Thanks friend! Hopefully I won't have to work every weekend in March.

If you need some help, there’s usually a group or two around on the air goons discord in the evening on eastern and pacific times. We have a server set up with the specific modules we use for this campaign, and other missions for our regular mix which can be swapped out on request, usually.

Once you’re comfortable, throw your name on the alternate list at the bottom of the sign up sheet.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012




TRASH FLIGHT - C130's

Special tasking for you.



Coordinate with SoF HQ to insert a battalion of paratroopers near Al Kafr. Near this location is a target radar that should be dead by the time you arrive. These paratroopers will make best haste west and destroy the SA-3 site at Kharaba. These troopers will then exfil through Jordan. Your path in should mirror the rest of the flights, while your path out will be back through Jordan.

DEAD / Strikers will advise MatzoMaker or SlingShot of any AAA present near the border that may pose a threat. You're fat, slow, and delicate, don't set yourself up for failure.

Yooper fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 28, 2022

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Yooper posted:



TRASH FLIGHT - C130's


Additional info for Trash Flight.





Once you cross into Jordanian airspace drop down to 2000 ft AGL, at some point after King Hussein Airport get to 800 ft AGL and maintain this until you have returned to Jordanian Airspace.

Dead Radar is a reference point for drop start, once you dog leg it to the east you may greenlight the cargo.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!

jzilla posted:

I feel a bit tone-deaf posting this after reading the previous post, but I finally got around to typing to this out after avoiding it for the same reasons Stimperor stated.



Hello, I am jzilla and I will be slotting into the role of Israeli Air Force Intelligence Officer. I will specifically be a part of the Air Intelligence Group, which is a subset of the Israeli military intelligence apparatus. This group also goes by Lamdan/LMDN.

Similar to the last campaign thread, a large part of my role as intelligence officer will be providing information and answering questions for flight leads and other roles involved in the campaign. Please ask those questions here. I will disseminate intel on the upcoming mission along with answering any questions. After missions are completed I will provide damage assessment and give an overview of what was achieved in the previous mission.

I don’t have anything to add to what Yooper has already posted at this point in time. In the next few days I will be adding info about the first stage of our campaign and the adversaries we will face in the air and on the ground.

And to make this clear from game organization side, commander, flight leads, etc key figures can ask Jzilla here in the thread intel clarification, and he'll get access to backchannels and will be able to answer pretty much anything one way or another. As an example "where are the planes parked at this airbase" and such.

mashed
Jul 27, 2004



Attention carrier air wing 8. We are still enroute to our first liberty in weeks but it is important that we don't waste this valuable training time. We have some indications of increased military readiness in Israel and have been assured that our port call can continue as planned. However we are not going to be sailing into harms way blindly. Before the carrier proceeds to port we will be conducting several training sorties to help further build our intelligence.



Black knights you will be conducting a familiarization flight over Israel to acquaint yourself in the area in preparation for potential joint training with Israel's Air Force. In addition to familiarize yourself with the area you will conduct photo reconnaissance of Ramat David airfield. We have indications that Israel has been significantly ramping up activity there and may not be communicating the full extent of their present situation. Given the heightened regional tensions if Israel permits you will carry air to air armaments consisting of AIM- 7 and AIM-9 missiles. As such avoid overflying population centers unless essential. Precise route planning is left to squadron and flight leadership. As a gesture of friendship it is suggested that you show the locals what your tomcats can do and perform a pass along the beach between Haifa and Acre on the way back to the boat.





Red devils you will be proceeding up the Lebanese coast to collect electronic intelligence as to their SAM capabilities in the region. Please note your RWR contacts along the coast. Do not stray inside Lebanon's territorial waters. Precise route planning is left to squadron and flight leadership. You will be carrying self protection armaments of AGM-88, AIM-7 & AIM-9. No more than one HARM per aircraft. Your mission is to surveil the air defence sites not destroy them. Do not engage unless you are fired upon. Do not cause an international incident by being on the wrong side of the line. In addition as a morale op you will be performing a fly past of the beach near Haifa when your primary mission is complete.



We will be deploying an E2C for surveillance and an S3 will be operating a tanker track off the coast if you require tanker support.

CAG Out.

Kilonum
Sep 30, 2002

You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.

a little something ooc:

If you are LGBTQ+ and want to join us and are unsure if you'll be accepted, JOIN US. I recently came out as trans and these guys have been totally supportive and awesome.

I'll have something in-character on Friday.

TheNakedJimbo
Nov 18, 2004

If you die first, I am definitely going to eat you. The question is, if I die first...what are YOU gonna do?


All pilots: be advised of the Legal Department's position regarding your upcoming campaign.

1) Every effort should be made to minimize civilian casualties. If fuel or ammo are to be dumped, under no circumstances are they to be dumped over populated areas.
2) Do not jettison external fuel tanks over enemy territory at all unless it is absolutely necessary. We don't want the Syrian army trotting out some grandmother who claims one of our fuel tanks fell through her roof.
3) Related to 1: no use of cluster munitions at this stage of the campaign. Lebanon is fairly sparse, but the southwest part of Syria and the northwest part of Jordan are full of small villages, most of which are populated by farmers and shepherds. The risk of cluster munitions accidentally destroying a civilian building, or an unexploded bomblet being found by a neighborhood child, is simply too great for Legal's taste right now.
4) Make absolutely sure you know what you're shooting at before you shoot anything. We do not need another USS Liberty. Confirm your targets before opening fire. Commander Yooper may set the terms of engagement as desired, but you need to know that if you start shooting blues because you didn't confirm your target, there will be very little that the Military Advocate General's Corps can do for you in whatever legal proceedings may occur.

--

OOC: In 1990 there was no legal restriction on the use of cluster munitions. In fact, Israel was largely responsible for their ultimate banning: in their 2006 war against Lebanon, an estimated 40% of their cluster bomblets did not detonate, and many of them are still sitting there, on or just under the soil. The Convention on Cluster Munitions was adopted in 2008, although to this day neither the USA, Israel, Syria, nor Jordan has ratified it. (Lebanon has - for understandable reasons.)

TheNakedJimbo fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 14, 2022

jzilla
Apr 13, 2007



It is Lamdan's opinion that the current mission is not reasonable without the use of cluster munitions by the Earthquake Battalion to destroy their target. The effect on target would not be sufficient with standard HE munitions. We need near-guaranteed destruction of the SAM batteries being targeted. Without cluster munitions it is my recommendation that we should rethink our current flight path and objectives.

FUCK SNEEP
Apr 21, 2007




jzilla posted:



Hello, I am jzilla and I will be slotting into the role of Israeli Air Force Intelligence Officer. I will specifically be a part of the Air Intelligence Group, which is a subset of the Israeli military intelligence apparatus. This group also goes by Lamdan/LMDN.

Similar to the last campaign thread, a large part of my role as intelligence officer will be providing information and answering questions for flight leads and other roles involved in the campaign. Please ask those questions here. I will disseminate intel on the upcoming mission along with answering any questions. After missions are completed I will provide damage assessment and give an overview of what was achieved in the previous mission.

I don’t have anything to add to what Yooper has already posted at this point in time. In the next few days I will be adding info about the first stage of our campaign and the adversaries we will face in the air and on the ground.

Panther Squadron Commander 101st IAF (Lt. Col) "gently caress SNEEP"
(Now promoted!)

Mr. Intelligence, what intel can you provide for us on the Syrian airfields of Marj Ruhayyil and Khalkhalah? We are tasked to hit important buildings, crater runways, and bomb parked aircraft. Currently, I would have my flights focus on the destruction of parked aircraft, and the cratering of their runways to neuter their immediate response, over destroying any of their facilities or infrastructure. Are there any super critical buildings we must hit? And can you provide us with any information on where aircraft are parked?

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012




My good MAG friend, your input is invaluable at this stage of the campaign and we will make every effort to follow your recommendations to the letter. As such the target areas for Earthquake are known SAM sites and the targeting is precise enough to minimize civilian casualties. Without this initial punch the current flight route is not possible. Earthquake shall be judicious and professional in deploying ordnance. In future ops we shall ensure cluster munitions are used only when necessary.



Special tasking for the Israeli Army.

The general plan is to move up and assume positions last held in 1974, or UNDOF Line ALPHA. Goal is to assume these positions by 0800. Immediately dig in and take advantage of terrain to go hull down. Assume Syrian counterattack will begin ~1000 to 1200 hours. IAF shall be available for CAS at 1200 hours.



36th Armored Division shall advance to Majdal Shams in the north to Al Qunaitra. Deploy armor hull down and prepare for a counter-attack. Infantry shall occupy urban zones and areas where locking fire is not possible. The 263rd BGD shall be held in reserve to act as a pincer for the 91st Galil.



91st Galil shall advance to Al Qunaitra in the north to Al Rafeed. Occupy 1974 defensive positions. Should you be pushed by overwhelming force withdraw no further than Qatsrin and coordinate with the 263rd to hit the flank of the advancing armor. By this time air assets should be available for assistance.



210th shall anchor the south with one anchor at the Jordanian border and the other at Al Rafeed. Make best use of the infantry to defend at the river while the 679th shall be further north in more level terrain to best take advantage of the MBT's strengths.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!
:frogsiren:

INGAME TIME NOW: 1930hrs, June 9th, 1990. It is a saturday. Final preparations are being done at Ramat David Air Base. Planes are getting fueled and pilots are being briefed. No phone calls are allowed.



Sun is setting over the port city of Haifa. It's Shabbat, the last day of the week in Israel since a week starts on a sunday, and despite a large portion of the residents being secular, it's been a quiet day. Skill and craftmanship on Shabbat are prohibited by the old Jewish law, but it is only observed by few. However the muslims and christians and secular jews usually align their calendars to use it as a relaxation day, and it is effectively a saturday like all the others in Haifa, and all over Israel. The closing of the Tiran Strait has put some pressure, but it isn't really felt yet as shortages and shops are selling everything. Anti-war movements have been busy for weeks now putting out anti-imperialist and anti-zionist literature and pamphleteers are hard at work but overall the population isn't feeling much out of the ordinary. A lot of Israelis are flying abroad for their summer holidays and due to extensive labor laws providing hefty amounts of vacation days, there's a certain lull during summer time that's felt.





In Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv sporadic peace protests have been popping up but it's pretty normal and not considered that weird. The nation is still somewhat reeling from the war of 1982 and the population is a bit battle weary.


Meanwhile, in Damascus, Beirut, and Cairo, battle plans are being drawn. No one really knows when the Big Setback will be rectified by a new attack, but the militaries are semi-mobilized already and large amount of exercises are being held. The Syrian Air Force is struggling to keep up its training tempo and their planes are mostly sitting still in an effort to conserve fuel and parts.
Yet, every day more and more troops slowly move to the borders and large military camps are prepared for them east of the Golan Heights, south of Sinai, and in Lebanese mountains. Perhaps in a few months time there will be critical mass, and the Big Setback of 1967 will be erased once and for all, and the faux state is pushed to the sea.





But, as we readers know, tomorrow's the day. The dice rolls were made, and this is it. Rather than wait for the inevitable blow, Israel will swing first. With less than 12 hours to the go-time...




They are not "large exercises" after all. To the great surprise of most of the rank-and-file, live ammunition was just passed out. Supply officers directed trucks that arrived to most exercise staging areas and the large containers were broken open, with live ammunition, grenades, and rocket launchers inside. They are being handed out right now.




Officers have gathered their soldiers at the 91st Galil Division HQ staging grounds. Not even company commanders or battalion commanders were privy to the plans, but the secret letters are popped open, and the orders are clear. Instead of a large combined arms exercise tomorrow morning, movement will be initiated at 0400hrs to assume positions given up in 1974. There is no time to waste as everything has to go flawlessly. No one is allowed the use of phones, and military police is watching all road ways. Exercise-related communications are still being broadcast in all languages to give an illusion of normalcy, but other radios are loaded up with encryption keys and the new communication plans are handed out to unit comm officers.

Most soldiers stand in silence, and the air is thick from the anxiety.

An earth shattering rumble moves the earth as countless M60s from the 8th "Old Man" armor brigade start up for an engine check and start rolling towards their staging point.




Once again, the Levant is about to plunge into war.





OUT OF CHARACTER POINTS:


Gametime is on coming saturday the 5th of March, at 2000hrs Universal Time. That's 1500hrs Eastern Standard Time. Show up in Discord early, some 10-15 minutes to figure your poo poo out. At 2000 UTC sharp the briefing will commence. This isn't the time to map your controls or set up your radios or install your mods. That should be done well in advance, as well as a validation flight to make sure poo poo's working. Your DCS World should be on Open Beta client, and so on. Flight leads, ensure that your dudes and dudettes know what is up and what they need.

To enter the Goon Server, you will need certain mods and liveries that pertain to this campaign. Flight leads, help your flights to install them.

The Mirage 2000 skin to make our Mirage's into Faux-Kfirs:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1783100/


The skin for the E-2C to give its Israeli 192 Squadron stripes:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3312199/


The C-130 MOD HAS TO BE INSTALLED BY ALL:
https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/252075-dcs-super-hercules-mod-by-anubis/

The A-4 MOD HAST O BE INSTALLED BY ALL, TOO:
https://github.com/heclak/community-a4e-c/releases/


In addition you need the Israeli skins for it from this pack:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313169/
The pack when extracted is huge, about 1gb. YOu don't need them all, just Israeli skins and the United Skins. Delete everything else.

If you need help with skins or mods, please ask in Discord. Do not wait for the last moment. So much hinges on this all. Install the skins even if you aren't flying that plane, as it looks cooler, and will make our screenshots and videos to stay in the lore.

Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Mar 2, 2022

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012




Some ground intel for our friends at MAG in regards to the Earthquake battery strikes.













Accurate fire will be needed, but I am sure that this is within the capabilities of these systems.

jzilla
Apr 13, 2007

gently caress SNEEP posted:


Panther Squadron Commander 101st IAF (Lt. Col) "gently caress SNEEP"
(Now promoted!)

Mr. Intelligence, what intel can you provide for us on the Syrian airfields of Marj Ruhayyil and Khalkhalah? We are tasked to hit important buildings, crater runways, and bomb parked aircraft. Currently, I would have my flights focus on the destruction of parked aircraft, and the cratering of their runways to neuter their immediate response, over destroying any of their facilities or infrastructure. Are there any super critical buildings we must hit? And can you provide us with any information on where aircraft are parked?

The SAAF units at Marj Ruhayyil and Khalkhalah are currently parking the vast majority of their aircraft outside of their hardened shelters. The blast hangars are reserved for the more modern and expensive MiG-29s and Su-24s, along with other more valuable aircraft. With this in mind, your plan to attack aircraft and runways is well advised.

The below imagery is somewhat out of date, and it is being shared to give an idea of where to expect the enemy to park their aircraft. It is likely by tomorrow morning that we will have new imagery to share and give a more exact location of enemy aircraft.

Khalkhalah Military Air Base

Khalkhalah is home to the 945 and 946 squadrons of the Syrian Arab Air Force. Each squadrons is equipped with approximately 20 MiG-21s, for a total of about 40. The infrastructure is sparse and spaced well apart with no obvious targets beyond the fuel storage area . There are two main parking areas, one in the northwest and one located towards the southeast.






Marj Ruhayyil Military Air Base

Marj Ruhayyil has squadrons 54 and 77. Both of these squadrons fly the MiG-23, with both having approximately 20 each. Marj Ruhayyil is a much more substantial base than Khalkhalah. While it still recommended to focus on the runways and aircraft parked outside of shelters, there are several buildings that would make excellent secondary targets. There is a large munitions warehouse along with several fuel tanks just south of the runways. There is one large parking area along the southern runway on the eastern end. This is where the enemy is likely to have the majority of their aircraft parked. There is also a squadron of Mi-25 helicopters based here. This is the export version of the Soviet Hind. Our goal is to cripple the SAAF as much as possible, so these should be considered tertiary targets.





This image isn't of any target, but it is likely of great interest to your flight. There are currentely four MiG-29s of the 697 squadron at Damascus International. It is likely they will respond to your attacks on the air bases to the south. The SAAF is incapable of maintaining a permanent Combat Air Patrol and it is likely there will be no enemy aircraft in the skies tomorrow morning. We should expect some response from the SAAF from Damascus and other Syrian Airbases, though it will take time for them to get fighters into the air.

jzilla fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Mar 2, 2022

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.




:siren:DAY 1 BRIEFING:siren:

Operation: CONVERGENCE
10 June 1990, 0600 hours
Ramat David IAF Base
בָּסִיס חֵיל-הַאֲוִויר רָמַת דָּוִד‎

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShyP2380Z2U

Element 1:
Dodge 2-1: ninjahedgehog aka wrathcough
Dodge 2-2: Karrick

Element 2:
Dodge 2-3: Zephirum
Dodge 2-4: Tythas

Boker tov, pilots. Here’s the current sitrep and your orders for this morning’s sortie. The boys in the Skyhawks and Vipers are striking two airfields in Syria today, and we’re going to watch their backs.

Our mission is to escort the strikers in, sanitize enemy airspace over the target area, and remain on station for potential intercept until egress – we’ll be first in and last out of Syrian airspace. Do not expect a warm welcome.

After takeoff, we’ll fly at treetop level to waypoint 1, at which point Colt flight will neutralize a search radar north of our position. Remain as low to the ground as possible to terrain mask from enemy SAMs, even if a bandit flight is inbound. We’ll need to use pop-up attacks to keep the strike package safe, relying on AWACS Sling Shot to rely the enemy position and only launching at the very last minute. The longer it takes to guide a Sparrow, the more vulnerable we will be to ground fire, so alacrity is of the essence.

Once the radar is destroyed, we’ll climb to patrol altitude and push waypoint 2 – however, there is an SA-3 and SA-2 site en route. If it lights us up with its track radar, dive back down to the weeds and wait for Colt flight to destroy it.

Once at waypoint 2, we’ll assume an orbit above the AO while the strike flights work over Khalkhalah and Marj Ruhayyil air bases. Our primary objective will be to intercept enemy flights from Damascus or further in Syria, but keep your eyes on the airfields themselves as well – if a MiG manages to make it off the ground, I want a Sidewinder up its tailpipe before it gets its gear up.

After the airfields are destroyed, we’ll be egressing to the west via waypoint 3, provided Earthquake manages to knock out the SA-6 site on the way. Our alternative route is the same route we took in: waypoint 1, then waypoint 4. The strike flights might be high-fiving a successful mission on the way back, but we won’t – our job is not over until every friendly plane is back on the ground. Anything other than zero losses to enemy fighters is completely unacceptable.

I know some of you wanted to be in Haifa today keeping the Americans away from your girlfriends, but tough poo poo. While they're slugging down arak and bragging about how fast they can ruin their landing gear on their ridiculous boat, we'll be out there proving we can fly the Americans' jet better than they can.

Dismissed.



WP1: turn point east of King Hussein Air College
WP2: racetrack NE of Khalkhalah AB
WP3: exfil turn point W of Rosh Pina Airport
WP4: Ramat David

SYRIAN ARAB AIR FORCE AERIAL THREAT FACE BOOK



MiG-21 "FISHBED"

Short-range interceptor, only capable of carrying WVR infrared missiles. We can completely control the terms of engagement and launch Sparrows from far outside its range, and we can outrun and outturn it in the merge. However, its R-60/AA-8 Aphid missiles can turn faster than our Sidewinders and should not be underestimated.



MiG-23 "FLOGGER"

Unlike the Fishbed, the MiG-23 has some BVR capability in the form of its R-23/AA-7 Apex semi-active radar missiles, which have a maximum effective range of about 22 nautical miles. With enough altitude and speed our Sparrows can outrange it, but we should expect to be launched on in return if the Flogger has not been forced defensive. Depending on our numbers, it may be useful for one Dodge asset to launch outside of effective range, forcing the MiG-23 defensive and limiting the amount of R-23s coming our way.

In the merge, however, the Eagle outclasses the Flogger in nearly every conceivable metric. We can easily put them on our nose in both one-circle and two-circle engagements, but does that does not give us any excuse to be complacent -- one slip up and some hotshit Flogger driver can easily ruin the Eagle's perfect record.



MiG-29 "FULCRUM"

The Fulcrum is by far the most dangerous opponent we’ll possibly be facing tomorrow. Its R-27/AA-10 Alamo missile is comparable to our Sparrows in BVR, so we’ll need to be going as high and fast as possible to control the terms of the engagement. It is also capable of carrying the R-27T variant, an infrared seeker with a maximum effective range of up to 20 nautical miles. We’ll have no RWR warning if the Fulcrum launches this at us, so we’ll need to preemptively defend if the bandit had not been destroyed or forced defensive itself.

In the merge, the Fulcrum is even more dangerous. It can swiftly outturn the Eagle in a two-circle fight, and its R-73/AA-11 Archer missiles can be fired up to 40 degrees off boresight. We’ll need to avoid dogfighting the MiG-29 at all costs. However, if we find ourselves in the merge a Fulcrum, do everything you can to keep the fight one-circle and exploit the vertical – our superior thrust-to-weight ratio means the MiG-29 will quickly lose energy if it chases an F-15 into a climb.

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

Once you are within Syrian airspace, you are weapons free on all SAAF craft. However, as this is a surprise attack, there is a possibility that civilian planes will be in the AO: Confirm your targets are Syrian military assets before launching, either through visual confirmation or by verifying with Sling Shot. Radar locks – either through boresight or vertical scan mode – are also highly recommended to confirm targets are hostile before launching Sidewinders.

ARMAMENT



We'll be carrying 4 AIM-9Ms, 4 AIM-7MH Sparrows, and 2 fuel tanks on the wing stations. Double-check that these exact variants of Sparrows/Sidewinders are loaded before spooling up -- the MH Sparrow is the only model capable of lofting for extra range so if someone is carrying the F or M by mistake they'll have to get in much closer than the rest of the flight before launching.

ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 6, 2022

FUCK SNEEP
Apr 21, 2007






Panther Squadron Commander 101st IAF (Lt. Col) "gently caress SNEEP"

Commander Yooper, I am requesting authorization for the use of CBU-87 munitions in PANTHER's strike mission. Looking at the intel provided by Jzilla, their aircraft are parked in long lines which would be perfect for the cluster munitions we have access to. There are no civilians located nearby on these airfield bases, so there is no risk of unwanted collateral damage. I would also like to restrict these to just the flight leads, who will use them to mop up any remaining targets but will drop only 1 CBU-87 per-pass ((for performance reasons)).

It is extremely important we eliminate as many of their air assets as possible, and this is the most effective way we can guarantee that happens with this initial strike.

The Angry Brit
Sep 17, 2005

Do I pull G's? no sir, I'm married


DAY 1 BRIEFING

Operation: CONVERGENCE
10 June 1990, 0600 hours
Ramat David IAF Base

Single Element
Dodge 1-1: Prime
Dodge 1-2: DarkOff
Dodge 1-3: Gronank

As a single ship element, DarkOff you will fly my wingman, and Gronank yours. Watch your wingmans six, we are entering unfriendly skies, and if we cannot protect ourselves, we cannot hope to protect our brothers.

Please refer to the briefing from Dodge 2 just above this, they will be flying alongside us; our mission is the same, our ROE's are the same.

I wish to emphasise, our fly out will be conducted nap-of-the-earth until waypoint 1 until Colt neutralise the SAM threat.

Once clear, we will climb to approximately angels 40 and begin our racetrack around waypoint 2. We will prioritise engagement with our Super 530's from altitude to maximise our engagement range and safety from ground threats. We are of course the valley squadron however, I will not hesitate to take the fight through the trenches if the enemies slip through - but await instruction to give up our altitude.

Our waypoint order is 1,2,1,3, home. Unless you're cleared to engage a bandit, I expect close adherence to our flight path, it will be a busy sky.

ARMAMENT
Our loadout is 2x Matra Magic, 2x Matra Super 530's, 2x Magic 2's, 1x fuel tank.


CONFIGURATION
Our Kfir's are strange indeed, I think our ground crew may be unwell, the aircraft has barely a passing resemblance to a Kfir and I routinely find traces of garlic, croissants and baguettes in the cockpit. But strange or not, these mighty Kfir will be our instrument of war. It goes without saying that our Kfir does not have a missile warning system nor data-link available. I don't even know why I said that.

COMMS PLAN
Green Radio will be for our flight comms on 137.00 MHz. Red Radio is for package comms, Ch 1 is Ramat David tower (260), Ch2 is Slingshot ABM (261), Ch3 is Package Comms (262). Once we take-off, expect to switch ch2 on red until we're ready for landing.

AOB
Ensure you have downloaded and installed the modpack v0.3 or above to ensure you have the Herc, Skyhawk, and campaign specific skins: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZzArIFZdI8rUTmG3Ts3Q746aiX2Bv5zT/view?usp=sharing

The Angry Brit fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 3, 2022

Jarmak
Jan 24, 2005



Listen up Devil Dogs, briefing inbound.

Devil 1 flight - 4 x F/A-18C Lot 20

Devil 1-1: Jarmak
Devil 1-2: Stimperor
Devil 1-3: Snax
Devil 1-4: Volundr

TASK:

Despite my best efforts to keep this squadron in fighting condition we are beholden to the Navy's taskings on this cruise, and those squids and their loving beach obsession have decided we're all going for a little fun in the loving sun. Now before you boys go loving off to the beach to prep the bars for your arrival we have to do some bullshit busy work to justify the dollars the American taxpayer spends on your loving existence. We're going to fly an RF recon along the Syrian coast to get a feel for where their hiding their SAMs these days, then fly a tight parade formation along Haifa beach so we can show off to the locals for "morale"


In game Start Time: 0600
METAR: Expected CASE I Launch and Recovery
Bullseye: TBD
Launch/Recovery: CVN-71 Theodore Roosevelt, TCN 72X, ICLS Ch. 2


COMMS:
Devil 1 Flight - MIDS 1 (/ 139.000 AM radio 2 during start up until all Devils are on MIDS 1)
Devil 1-1 Element MIDS 11
Devil 1-2 Element MIDS 12


Air Battle Manager: Slingshot 261.000 AM - Radio 2
Other flights: per kneeboard - Radio 2

LOADOUT:

1x AGM-88C ARM
2x AIM-9M IR AAM
2x AIM-7MH Semi-active RF AAM
1x FPU-8A Fuel Tank, 330 Gallons


FLIGHT PLAN AND TARGETING:



We will be flying North-South along the Syrian coast in an effort sniff out any new SAM systems that might be out there banging away. We'll fly 15 miles off the cost along the corridor depicted on your imagery. Keep things tight and squared away while we're in close to Syrian airspace; the 5-mile-wide corridor from waypoints 2 through 4 will keep you more than 12 miles off the coast at all times. If you have to deviate, deviate toward the ocean. Do NOT, under any circumstances get within 12NM of the Syrian coast; if any of you motherfuckers are on the news tomorrow for anything other than your pretty little parade formation I will personally punch you in the loving face until my face bleeds.

Once we've completed our recon of the Syrian IADS net we'll descend down to gawking altitude and head toward Haifa; between waypoints 5 and 6 you boys will put on the prettiest parade formation your ugly assess can muster, before we head home to MOM and begin recovery.

ROE:
Real loving easy, don't loving shoot anything! Since this room is full of Marines I'm going to say that again: don't. loving. shoot. anything. Unless you get shot at first, then blow them to loving hell.

You will each be carrying a single AGM-88C HARM anti-radiation missile in the off-chance someone in Syria loses their goddamn mind and decides to commit suicide by firing on an aircraft belonging to the United States Marine Corps. Keep your HARMs in self-protect mode; in the event of a launch you are to return fire and immediately egress out to sea and await further instructions.

DO NOT re-attack the target, just get the gently caress out.

MINIMUM ALT: Stay above 25,000ft while along the Syrian border, don't tempt fate by being a dumb gently caress flying low and slow.

BINGO: 3500



FLIGHT PLAN WAYPOINTS:
Waypoint 1 - Steer Point - 36S XC 29498 61122 - FL250
Waypoint 2 - Steer Point - 36S YC 02979 54772 - FL250
Waypoint 3 - Steer Point - 36S XB 67185 61307 - FL250
Waypoint 4 - Steer Point - 36S YB 10216 57155 - FL150
Waypoint 5 - Steer Point - 36S XB 92828 43212 - FL050
Waypoint 6 - Steer Point - 36S XB 79729 32520 - FL050
Waypoint 7 - Steer Point - 36S WB 77604 31201 - FL050

ADDITIONAL TASKS:

As fragged

Jarmak fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 4, 2022

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


gently caress SNEEP posted:

It is extremely important we eliminate as many of their air assets as possible, and this is the most effective way we can guarantee that happens with this initial strike.

My response is yes, but first :

1. IAF MAG Legal must clear it.
2. Followed by our logisticians to make sure they have filed off the serial numbers.

My goal is mission success, and I agree that it's the right tool for the job in a proper environment.

But, such is the chain of command, and they will have the final say.

TheNakedJimbo
Nov 18, 2004

If you die first, I am definitely going to eat you. The question is, if I die first...what are YOU gonna do?

gently caress SNEEP posted:

Commander Yooper, I am requesting authorization for the use of CBU-87 munitions in PANTHER's strike mission. Looking at the intel provided by Jzilla, their aircraft are parked in long lines which would be perfect for the cluster munitions we have access to. There are no civilians located nearby on these airfield bases, so there is no risk of unwanted collateral damage. I would also like to restrict these to just the flight leads, who will use them to mop up any remaining targets but will drop only 1 CBU-87 per-pass ((for performance reasons)).



Authorization GRANTED. We have been overruled by Defense Minister Rabin himself with regard to this one particular target, as it is a military installation. Legal's ground rules stand for all other flights and all other mission objectives unless the Defense Minister intervenes again.

TheNakedJimbo fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Mar 14, 2022

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

Found in the messhall on the Theodore Roosevelt

mashed
Jul 27, 2004



Pilots we have received some additional frequencies from the israelis for "airspace deconfliction and coordination". This immediately sets off my bullshit siren :siren:. They are up to something and we will not be walking into it with our pants around our ankles. Flights should monitor this frequency but should not key up unless you believe your own aircraft to be in danger. A reminder that you may only engage if you are under attack or to directly protect the fleet. If this situation with our hosts escalates beyond the current tension into open conflict with their neighbours then a request for further assistance from the Roosevelt battle group is way the gently caress above my head and that means it is way way way the gently caress above yours.

Don't be stupid and become and international incident.

Additional information for the marines follows below.

__________________


__________________

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FUCK SNEEP
Apr 21, 2007




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