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What made Zelensky do a 180 on downplaying the invasion's imminence? I'm sure this is just a reconciliation of his private and public positions but what prompted that?
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Feb 14, 2022 20:24
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All of the Russian bluster about NATO security concerns is a moot point because Russia, as a nuclear armed state with ICBMs and SLBMs, is not, and will not, find itself in a situation where they are facing an existential threat. They know this. America knows this. NATO knows this, and Ukraine knows it too. It makes every bit of crying about Ukrainian threats to Russian state security extremely cynical when everyone knows Ukraine is not, and literally could not be, the threat they are made out to be by Putin. It's naked realpolitik.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:22
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TipTow posted:If this was true, what was the point of expanding NATO? What did the U.S., France, the U.K., and Turkey gain from adding Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia? Surely they wouldn't need the extra help in fighting off Russia if that was was never going to happen anyway. The last time the Baltics were independent prior to 1991 they were subsequently absorbed into the USSR after having been absorbed into the Russian Empire before that. Those countries have a very legitimate reason to want protection from Russia. And you're misinterpreting what I said. I said that nothing would be an existential threat to RUSSIA. Not that RUSSIA wouldn't be an existential threat to its NEIGHBORS.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:30
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TipTow posted:I agree! Ahh I see. I admit, I don't understand the deeper reasons why the Baltics wanted in beyond "Russia refuses to let us be independent without the threat of significant force", so I will yield the second point on the grounds that I'm not qualified to debate that specific topic until I research it more.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:42
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Josef bugman posted:Start killing minorities and/or selling the armaments on to the black market to various other groups to commit terror offenses? Ukraine has a professional military that is more than capable of using received aid responsibly. They aren't loving ISIS
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Feb 15, 2022 00:28
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Majorian posted:If that was the case, then why did it take until 2017 to change the policy? Russia wasn't any more aggressive in 2017 than it was in 2014-15. It seems more likely to me that Trump changed that policy because he wanted the U.S. MIC to make a lot of money by selling arms to Ukraine. Trump was impeached over this when he tried to withhold the arms shipments in exchange for electoral help from Ukraine. In order to leverage something that could get him that dirt, the aid has to exist first. Besides, it wasn't very long after that when Ukraine changed its designation of the combatants to reflect their position that they were fighting the Russian military instead of insurgent internal forces
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Feb 15, 2022 00:46
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https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1493704138131136516?s=20&t=t3wpXwpnkiH1foC8Y7P3pw Ukraine brought up a bunch of armor to Kharkiv earlier today. https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1493694446759723015?s=20&t=k1yI6CP6VSJxrnRufW15fQ Ukrainian Security Service website is now down, Russia seems to be launching a cyberattack on Ukrainian networks as the stream I'm watching has all of the streams out of Ukraine going down but not the ones from Russia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhv3y7JIe8 HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Feb 15, 2022 |
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Feb 15, 2022 22:57
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Russia is currently in phase 1.5 of strategic modernisation of its military. After they suffered embarrassing failure during Russian invasion into Georgia, a 2011-2020 modernisation plan was developed. During that, they got waged wars in Ukraine and Syria, and incorporated those learnings into a Frankenstein 2018-2027 plan, which is going to be replaced in 2023 or 2024 with plan based on the difficulties theyve faced so far in their third campaign against Ukraine. Thanks for this, I'm going to go look into these modernizations because I wasn't aware the Georgia invasion went badly from a military standpoint. I'll have to look more into that, I was under the impression it went well for RF
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Feb 15, 2022 23:07
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Terminal autist posted:This is incorrect there is no current active invasion There has been an active invasion for eight years.
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Feb 16, 2022 00:18
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An ongoing occupation counts as an invasion, Crimea's annexation was illegitimate through force of arms and should be considered as such
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Feb 16, 2022 00:26
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Majorian posted:Donbas is an insurrection. Ukraine's in a state of civil war, and has been for a while now. Ah yes like how the little green men in Crimea also totally weren't Russian regulars out of uniform right
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Feb 16, 2022 00:28
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Terminal autist posted:No it doesn't invasion refers to a very specific in the timeframe of a war. Occupation -- a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area -- b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force -- c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it. And the occupying military force would be called.....invaders!
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Feb 16, 2022 00:30
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The Atlantic Council is a fairly influential NGO..I wouldn't call them a no-name Twitter random
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Feb 16, 2022 01:45
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Herstory Begins Now posted:yeah, i was just taking the opportunity to make a joke at their expense Ohhh sorry lol it went right by me
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Feb 16, 2022 01:53
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Hawaii is not covered under a NATO Article V invocation if it is attacked.
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Feb 18, 2022 10:12
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A major gas pipeline explosion that derails energy supply to central and western Europe would be a great false flag for invading, imo.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:35
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Didn't Caro get captured by Assad's forces and held in a torture facility? Last I heard he's living out of his car now in San Francisco
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Feb 19, 2022 00:18
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Would be interested to know more about this "destabilization campaign". Does that mean cyber attacks? SpecOps doing covert things like sabotage and such?
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Feb 19, 2022 02:42
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This thread lost its drat mind overnight
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Feb 19, 2022 23:36
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It's not concentration camps but it's not a secret that Russia repressed the LGBTQ population of Crimea heavily. https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-russia-drove-crimeas-lgbt-community-underground https://time.com/3482205/crimea-gay-community-flees-russian-homophobia/ Tortured for being gay: https://khpg.org/en/1536007330 https://en.hromadske.ua/posts/how-lgbt-people-are-treated-in-russia-occupied-territories
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Feb 21, 2022 08:42
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some plague rats posted:No one is under the impression that Russia is good to LGBT people. Only a loving idiot would say that. But a bunch of gay bars closing down is a pretty far cry from the actual, literal concentration camps that steinrokken and despera were claiming they're running? But it is indicative of how readily able that repression is. I'm not saying they're holocausting LGBTQ people, I'm saying that there is a definite and deliberate repression campaign that did not exist in Crimea under Ukrainian administration
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Feb 21, 2022 08:48
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some plague rats posted:Okay but other people were so I'm not sure who you're arguing with? I'm arguing that despite that one poster being blatantly exaggerative about camps for journalists and queer people etc, they are not entirely wrong about the treatment that LGBTQ people will be experiencing under Russian rule. I disagree with the hyperbole but the point I think they are trying to make is that if you're queer, you're hosed in the event of a Russian invasion and occupation
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Feb 21, 2022 08:52
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Somaen posted:Huh weird how posters generating outrage about Biden's concentration camps are suddenly policing the usage of the term unless the holocaust is happening. Real strange going ons in our cozy good faith debate thread What does this have to do with the topic this thread is about? Nobody's talking about Biden or ICE and they aren't relevant to this discussion
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Feb 21, 2022 08:57
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Despera posted:It's lliterally a documentary where homosexuals are beaten and killed in the streets with video It would have been great if someone had put what the video was at the time they linked it. Nobody's gonna click on a no context random YouTube link, come on.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:59
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75% of Russia's conventional forces deployed against Ukraine https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-20-22-intl/h_a75912013e1a5572ef733fd4a7167d48
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Feb 21, 2022 10:49
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As one of the toxxers, I feel like this constitutes an invasion, right? We have Putin's orders, his speech, and admittedly unconfirmed videos of Russian troops in the border. I leave it to the mod to make the final call, but I feel like it's pretty solid. I'm also okay with waiting for official confirmation
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Feb 21, 2022 22:43
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CommieGIR posted:Its borderline. We're keeping watch. Nobody's toxx will get acted on unless we all agree its fulfilled. Fair enough, happy to wait
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Feb 21, 2022 22:45
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https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1495877460944203777?s=20&t=HHhb0vcFaEjb0SunyE9Z_A Footage of Russian troops being bussed in to Donbas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb_3FT5DgEo&t=4s The Buzzer stopped buzzing and transmitted a code for the first time I can ever remember hearing
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Feb 21, 2022 23:16
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Still shocked at how unhinged Putin's speech was. When I hear a world leader yelling about states that don't have the right to exist, I usually expect it to be about Israel.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:43
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FishBulbia posted:https://twitter.com/DavidLawler10/status/1495891830239645697?s=20&t=YsWfWfoNmVYB5RG12QBLjQ This is ridiculous. Why are they now being ambiguous about this?
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Feb 21, 2022 23:57
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Also, shoutout to the (probably) P-3 that flew out of Sigonella Naval Air Station in Italy and is drawing penises because it knows so many people are checking the flight trackers
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Feb 22, 2022 00:00
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Interfax News (Russian AP equivalent) reporting two columns of armored vehicles inside the DPR https://www.interfax.ru/world/823559 Interfax posted:Moscow. February 22. INTERFAX.RU - A large number of armored vehicles were seen on the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).
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Feb 22, 2022 00:03
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https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1495896613386133512?s=20&t=uywEM0OjfoIzTIHgEYBOcQ All US State Department personnel in Ukraine evacuated to Poland
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Feb 22, 2022 00:08
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For what it's worth as the toxx "winner" I am fine with donating to charity in lieu of banning. Taken all together I would have rather not been right on this as it means a world of horror for my friends in Ukraine.
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Feb 22, 2022 18:30
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https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1496195210740744195?s=20&t=YyCIdtxom6LxFvSvoBpqyQ Russia establishes diplomatic ties with DPR and LPR
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Feb 22, 2022 19:51
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Trump could have just as easily launched a predator missile up an oligarch's rear end as he could have done nothing at all. He was extremely unstable as far as world leaders go. Remember when he assassinated the head of Quds Force? I'm sure Putin does, and while Trump wouldn't have attacked Russia, his response or lack of response can't be quantified by Russia and so the risk was much higher
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Feb 22, 2022 20:12
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Riptor posted:this post is dumb for a variety of reasons but you also realize that 'glass' is typically used in reference to nuking places in the desert right You don't need desert to glass an area, technically. It just changes the mineral composition of what that glass is depending on the amount of silicates in the soil. You can definitely nuke a forest and it'll be glassed at the fireball location.
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Feb 22, 2022 20:16
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Just nuke twice, first into desert and then into glass. Smdh, has either of you ever touched a video game. I always liked causing desertification and climate change in Civilization IV by launching nukes everywhere Edit for content: Fallout already happening as it concerns European energy production. Finland is looking to reassess the Rosatom-backed nuclear power project due to fears that it could contribute towards Russia's nuclear weapons production. https://yle.fi/news/3-12329586 Yle posted:Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said on Tuesday that she was in favour of conducting a new risk analysis of the Fennovoima nuclear power project in light of the escalating situation between Russia and Ukraine. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 20:19
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Biden talking now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joRERZ_9-iU&hd=1 Nice quote: "Who in the world does Putin think gave him the authority to just create two new countries?" Sanctions: Full blocking sanctions on VEB and their military bank, sanctions on Russia's sovereign debt, cut off from western financing, starting tomorrow and continuing onward sanctions on Russian elites and their family members will be levied, Nord Stream 2 will NOT move forward, we will continue providing defensive assistance to Ukraine. Biden authorized NATO troop deployments citing Belarus threat to defend NATO allies, strictly defensive and made sure to stress that these are defensive actions inside NATO only, with troops already in Europe HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 20:23
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projecthalaxy posted:All the people yelling questions over each other at his back lol Can't really blame them for trying, we just had 4 years of a president who sometimes WOULD just turn around and come back for an unprompted series of questions just because he liked having the attention
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Feb 22, 2022 20:35
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