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Truga posted:western state apparatuses and media are hyping this supposed invasion that's kicking off in 2 weeks, and how we should totally help ukraine (for 8 years straight now i might add), and just generally spreading stupid fear, almost like they're planning some kind of false flag themselves There have been people dying for 8 years, almost every day, from Russian artillery. Truga posted:
Oh, this part is absolutely true. They have continued bankrolling Russian army with idiotic energy policy, and continued selling them what they need to modernize it despite 2014. A good number of retired German politicians are literally on Russian payroll and continue influencing its policy. The response in 2014 from them and Obama was basically a green light... But I somehow think you don't mean that.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:58
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BoldFace posted:Pretty radical shift in tone. It's not a shift in tone, it's a wildly incorrect translation. "We are being told the 16th will be a day of invasion. We will make it a day of unity".
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Feb 14, 2022 20:26
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CommieGIR posted:No, because key NATO members would still refuse to ratify Ukraine joining NATO. Again, this is very much a conspiracy theory, not founded in actual events. There has never been anything suggesting a conditional change in government was going to make Ukraine a NATO member. Also residents of Crimea in particular would raise a stink and government would shelve the idea quickly, which is pretty much what happened to all "let's cooperate with NATO" episodes before 2014.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:42
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It's closer to 150,000, and it's close to 60% of active duty military. Obviously they can call up a few million conscripts, and ... party like it's 1914?i say swears online posted:...ironic? lol What he was saying is obvious for someone with like 50% comprehension of Ukrainian. Which is probably zero of CNN staff involved. I would point at the official English statement, but it manages to make a mistake in the very next sentence.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:00
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:The US is sending troops and fighter jets to Poland, and though their present mission has been publicly declared to involve staying put in Poland regardless of future events, it is odd to me that this is seen as peacekeeping while Russian movements within their own borders are provocation. And I do not disagree that Russian movements are provocation. However, if I'm skeptical of US movements as a US citizen, one might think the Russians would be particularly skeptical. If US sent nearly 2/3rds of the entire army to borders of Russia or Belarus and configured them in a way that looks exactly staged for invasion it would indeed be provocative and deserve criticism. It's not doing anything like that.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:13
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Despera posted:Came for the big brain dnd takes and "it was wrong to give ukraine weapons" was lol That's relatively mild as far as those go. Pure isolationists w/o any of typical thinly disguised Chomskyite racism are almost refreshing in this day and age.
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Feb 15, 2022 02:20
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I am really worried that some of you may have more accurate assessment of the risks than Putin does (and you near certainly care more about regular Russians than him). It's hardly unheard of for leaders of government to make poor judgement of risks --- in 1914 it was hardly only Kaiser Boneheadfancymustache who did (yeah, I know, new tech, but still).
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Feb 15, 2022 02:37
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:It could end up creating the factors needed for a multi polar world. Bad TV images cause Biden to lose in 2024 and Trump come to power again and destroy America?
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Feb 15, 2022 02:44
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Sekenr posted:They coyld have voted for DLNR recognition at any moment, you don't need a troop buildup to do that. The problem of such recognition is it means that Russia officially invalidates Minsk agreements and trying to force Kiev to follow these agreements was their entire policy since 2014. At any other time that recognition would be far more likely to face sanctions. But as you said, it's unclear that doing that actually brings any benefits.
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Feb 15, 2022 15:55
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Paladinus posted:Inject someone else's piss into your bladder than piss it out in a Kremlin toilet as a funny prank. Two years pass, and Russia installs a cloned horse as Germany's chancellor. olbig. Lavrov?
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Feb 15, 2022 16:07
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paul_soccer12 posted:Obviously Russia is a kleptocracy so I assume Putin gets to wet his beak on pretty much any state expenditures, but can you refer me to some reading about how intertwined he is with the Russian MIC, specifically? So the easiest way to think of property in Russia is that it all belongs to Putin, he is just letting his friends use it for convenience's sake.
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Feb 15, 2022 23:03
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Paladinus posted:What am I looking at here? Wait a second, is this- drat it! Rick Rolled again! Rickrolling isn't culturally appropriate for the thread. Maybe this instead? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1x7M6gLNXs
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Feb 15, 2022 23:33
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Conspiratiorist posted:Are we allowed to do it ironically? Can we call Germany the "German State", seeing how it's basically a foreign puppet?
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Feb 15, 2022 23:54
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Majorian posted:Donbas is an insurrection. Ukraine's in a state of civil war, and has been for a while now. You should change your avatar from Zhukov to Molotov. And buy a bridge I am selling.
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Feb 16, 2022 00:28
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Majorian posted:Calling that an "active invasion" is a stretch. By that definition, the U.S. has been invading Cuba for 63 years straight. US hasn't murdered any Cubans in Cuba lately to my awareness. Russia has been doing that in Ukraine pretty much non-stop.
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Feb 16, 2022 00:47
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karthun posted:Leased, and famously Cuba doesn't cash the checks. Does the lease have an expiration date?
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Feb 16, 2022 00:57
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Wistful of Dollars posted:Cuba could be the 11th Canadian province. Think of the potential. The Confederates did.
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Feb 16, 2022 00:57
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cinci zoo sniper posted:
In particular Putin seems to want a Bosnia #2, aka complete end of Ukrainian sovereignty in practice. Poroshenko's attempts to implement it --- which had faced severe political trouble --- were more towards vague local autonomy in local matters that really won't be controversial in other circumstances and if it were applied equally. Well, except for some coockos that would probably get elected in Halytsina.
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Feb 16, 2022 13:39
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Dr.Radical posted:I mean fair enough for the first part but are Russians in the US referring to themselves as POC now? Lol Uhh, if you think racism and bigotry is only about skin color you're, well, applying the American conception of it where it doesn't apply.
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Feb 16, 2022 13:54
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There hasn't been any significant troop movements for a couple days, they're still well-positioned for an invasion, see e.g. https://citeam.org/order-of-battle-russia-ukraine-2022.html?5
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Feb 16, 2022 15:04
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:""Russia's Investigative Committee claims mass graves of hundreds of civilians killed by Ukrainian shelling found Damned LDPR can't even bury people they occupied properly.
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Feb 16, 2022 15:56
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Alchenar posted:In any case I think the whole border >< elections issue over Minsk is shadowboxing. Putin's real endgame objective is obviously an autonomous region that will reliably return a Moscow client and which constitutionally holds a veto over Ukrainian membership of NATO. That's probably the legal guarantee he keeps asking someone to offer him. I think you are right overall, and of course that's not going to be accepted by any actually Ukrainian government. The order stuff matters insomuch that even the sort of things that would be acceptable are political non-starters w/o more than promises from Russia since no one in Ukraine will believe those. Edit: it would also determine whether the MPs are chosen by Putin or Akhmetov, and those are not the same, even considering Akhmetov's... questionable loyalties. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 16, 2022 |
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Feb 16, 2022 17:16
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Josef bugman posted:
I haven't seen any polling, so I can't say, but do keep in mind that only the younger generations are likely to engage in English-language media. Now, objectively, a lot of reporting is worth disdain for reasons partly related to the above complaint. You're probably quite familiar with bothsideism and overlove of authority figures from more domestic issues, but in case of Ukraine it's exacerbated by people w/o context parachuting in when it's in big news and making total fools of themselves, and then just repeating claims that would make anyone with a clue keel over in laughter. Or, you know, like what happened yesterday, misquoting the Ukrainian president because they apparently didn't have anyone with even partial understanding of the language to check. Those who are actually on Kyiv beats are usually way better, and Chris in particular is pretty good.
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Feb 16, 2022 17:47
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Putin is reckless and ruthless but I don’t think he’s dumb enough to actually launch a real invasion, there’s basically no way Russia comes out ahead long term. Russia is far too weak and can’t afford to do an Iraq like we could. As I said to others, I sure hope you're right, but it's not a very comforting thought to rely on if one cares about Ukrainians. For me in particular it's iffy since I am aware of just how much racist contempt nationalist Russians[1] can have towards abilities of Ukrainians, and the ability of politicians to drink their own koolaid. Like would you necessarily think in 2001 that Dick Chenney would be dumb enough to do an invasion w/o planning for the aftermath? After all he is also evil, not stupid. The fact of the matter is the troops are there, the equipment is there, and only one man truly knows if they'll attack or not (if that man has even made up his mind!) [1] and also Russian "liberals".
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Feb 16, 2022 18:32
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Also people I think overestimate the difficulty of potential occupation since they forget that there are a lot of cops in Ukraine, and plenty would be happy to collaborate. ACAB very much applies.
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Feb 16, 2022 18:45
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Mr Hootington posted:After Russia is pushed out of Eastern Ukraine, what should be done so that area feels more unity to greater ukraine instead of russia? Raise pensions.
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Feb 16, 2022 19:44
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Mr Hootington posted:Why would a populace who were oppressed while part of Ukraine want to rejoin ukraine? Seems counter intuitive. That'd be because they were not actually oppressed. Except maybe in the way that white Christian males are oppressed in the United States.
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Feb 16, 2022 21:04
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Terminal autist posted:A state seeking to eliminate your native language seems pretty loving horrible but I eagerly await Eastern Euros explaining how cultural genocide is actually progressive Yeah, Russia should really stop doing it.
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Feb 16, 2022 21:08
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Terminal autist posted:No I'm suggesting Ukraine is pursuing a policy where the ultimate goal would be the elimination of Russian language speakers and culture in Ukraine on a long enough timeframe It's not. It's pursuing policy where Ukrainian culture becomes dominant among Ukrainians. And you are equating it to policies of complete eradication of a culture, which is what Russia has attempted in Ukraine in the past, and is doing now in Tatarstan
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Feb 16, 2022 21:25
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Well, if Russians are Asian because in some superficial ways Moscow was a Golden Horde successor state, clearly Ukrainians are Scandinavian!
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Feb 16, 2022 21:50
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:The Ukrainian regime is actually Germans wearing slav-face They would be way friendlier to Russia if that were the case. Unless it's secretly zombie Skoropadsky (boy, what an accurate family name).
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Feb 16, 2022 21:52
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cinci zoo sniper posted:If I recall correctly, they named their country after a river. The real mystery is the Netherlands, which seems to be completely random. That's also an adjective and a noun. Just weirdly.
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Feb 16, 2022 23:22
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Let's bring in the real expert on naming things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ7kioOFM-g
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Feb 16, 2022 23:59
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The way tankies are spewing, you might even think the current government is the same one as immediately post-Maidan. And not the 4th one after, with multiple intervening elections and a change in controlling parties.
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Feb 17, 2022 02:46
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I could make fun of some journalists instead? https://twitter.com/katiedavies91/status/1494051108771274752
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Feb 17, 2022 03:06
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:
Well, using veterancy(?)[1] as political cover for being hired thugs for competing oligarchic interests is pretty specific to Ukraine's current circumstances. Of course those groups won't have existed without the war, and it's the war that makes it harder to get rid of them (and unsurprisingly the worst one is the one that survived... perhaps because people who were really just interested in protecting their country were happy to get a spot in the National Guard). Of course was would really empower them is the West going full Munich. Personally, I hope someone checks their finances thoroughly. Won't be surprised a few thinly disguised transfers from Moscow (not because there aren't Ukrainians with view this bad, but because this is who they are ultimately helping). [1] I think a bunch of groups tried it in 2014 w/o doing any actual fighting. I think some form of Azov was in at least one actual battle --- where they stupidly overextended and had to get their asses bailed out by Ukrainian Marines over some village in a.. highly strategically dubious location.
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Feb 17, 2022 05:02
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I’ve scanned the text diagonally. Russia is signalling that they’re interested in working on arms controls topics with the U.S., but otherwise they’re mostly indignant, if not outright mocking, about primacy of their requirements in the earlier absolute. There goes all the hand wringing about “surely Russia is actually interesting in making concessions”. Russia's ideas of concessions is "Poland will get to annex Lviv".
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Feb 17, 2022 15:31
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pippy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHCxUFZpzY8 You're not confused, Russian state media is just shameless liars.
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Feb 17, 2022 16:20
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Grouchio posted:My only wonder is if Putin has enough discipline in his army that he won't let their anger spiral out of control and accidentally engage with NATO. The closest NATO presence is in Poland.
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Feb 17, 2022 17:06
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VitalSigns posted:Wait is it good for military might to crush the self-determination of internal minorities It's good for the military to crush foreign militias engaging in murders and torture. Do you know what "Isolyatsya" is? If not, may be shut up about stuff you're ignorant off, less you swallow Putin's jackboots you are busy licking. https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1493672265942241280
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Feb 17, 2022 19:15
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