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Is the mere act of reporting on Russian troop movements and putting out statements saying "Don't invade Ukraine, we will react if you invade Ukraine" considered sabre rattling?
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Feb 14, 2022 19:51
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Terminal autist posted:Hopefully the war is quick and as bloodless as possible. Its increasingly clear the West and NATO only view Ukraine as a pawn in the most cynical chess game around. I think the desires of the people of Ukraine matter the most, here.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:02
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Red and Black posted:Ok yes, maybe but lets not forget Russia bad I think the problem is Putin, not Russia as a country or the Russian people themselves. Putin is the one in control here, the one threatening an aggressive war of imperial conquest. He can end this with a word.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:19
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Red and Black posted:Even if Russia were a perfect democracy, it would still oppose NATOs expansion into Ukraine. It would still oppose NATO troops in Ukraine. It would still oppose western missiles in Ukraine. (and it would still be called a dictatorship by the western media) This is a matter of a core security concern and not of the personal ideology of one man, who by the way probably isn't as all powerful as you've convinced yourself he is. I don't see any of that as justification for an aggressive war of expansion and imperial conquest. I also think that if Russia were a "perfect democracy" they wouldn't be handling any disagreements about NATO with a war and an invasion. Putin is in control, he has all the agency here.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:25
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Red and Black posted:The US was one of several countries that invaded Russia right after the 1917 Revolution Do you think the United States and/or NATO are willing to or interested in invading Russia today?
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Feb 14, 2022 21:16
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TipTow posted:If this was true, what was the point of expanding NATO? What did the U.S., France, the U.K., and Turkey gain from adding Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia? Surely they wouldn't need the extra help in fighting off Russia if that was was never going to happen anyway. If a democracy wants to join NATO and the existing members agree, why shouldn't they be allowed? It is a defensive alliance. More nations joining together in a defensive alliance seems like a good thing, in and of itself. It's only a bad thing for nations that are interested in conquest, who might be thwarted by a defensive alliance of nations that they would otherwise be interested in conquering.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:26
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Terminal autist posted:gently caress off with this poo poo. If you want for us to do something more than nothing I'm actively cheering that sleepy joe falls asleep at the wheel and this leads to the dissolution of NATO and the EU Why would you cheer at the dissolution of the EU? That doesn't seem like something good to hope for.
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Feb 14, 2022 22:03
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Josef bugman posted:I suspect it depends on what the armaments end up doing and contributing to. Just throwing more arms out there is not usually a situation that ends very well. Especially if those same groups end up using the guns and legitimacy given to them to create more problems. I would say hopefully the armaments deter Putin from invading an annexing part of a sovereign nation in the first place. If they don't deter that, then I would hope that those armaments send enough Russian soldiers home in coffins that Putin is forced to give up his unprovoked imperial war of aggression.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:27
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Most importantly: referring to people using the terms that they prefer to be referred by indicates that you respect them and consider them equals. People who purposefully and deliberately and repeatedly ignore those terms and use their own terms are indicating that they either do not respect those people and consider them equals, or that they do not find that putting in the effort to change an old habit is worthwhile.
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Feb 16, 2022 23:05
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Majorian posted:I wish I had been correct in my initial assessment that Putin wouldn't take things as far as he has. Has it made you rethink some of your assumptions about what people like Putin are capable of doing?
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Feb 23, 2022 23:50
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Arglebargle III posted:To what end? To punish Putin and make engaging in this war even more untenable. gently caress that monster.
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Feb 24, 2022 17:21
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ZombieLenin posted:As I said earlier in this thread, I am a Marxist; and as a Marxist I do not know how anyone who claims to be on the left could do anything other than cheer on Ukraines people and Armed Services who, in my view, are fighting someone who is as close to a successor of Hitler as one can realistically imagine.  I am not a Marxist, but I am an American leftist, and this is god's own truth. Putin is no friend of the left, nor a friend of humanity writ large. He is nihilism and murder incarnate.
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Feb 24, 2022 17:26
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Sinteres posted:He certainly shouldn't. He should. Hammer Putin.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:12
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Sinteres posted:You realize there are people living in Russia who aren't Putin, yes? Cyber attacks taking down critical infrastructure hurt them, and projecting Putin onto the entirety of the Russian nation most of us don't consider him to represent as a democratically legitimate leader seems like a mistake. Of course if it could halt the invasion while leading to no other negative consequences it could be worthwhile, but it's both unlikely to halt the war and guaranteed to lead to retaliation, so no I don't think shutting down the power throughout Russia is a moral choice. Oh was "shutting down the power throughout Russia" the only choice Biden has? It's that or nothing?
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Feb 24, 2022 19:16
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Sinteres posted:As I said before, once you start a conflict, you don't get to choose where it ends. How exactly do you think the US should start engaging in cyber attacks against Russia where it won't lead to attacks on critical infrastructure? You're the one who said to hammer Putin, so I assumed you meant something with some real bite to it. I think that's on you for assuming I desire to collectively punish the Russian people. I'm not a cyber-expert by any means, but I imagine there are a wide variety of options that can put the hurt on Putin, his cronies, and his government's ability to effectively prosecute this imperial war of aggression and expansion that also won't cause the Russian people to freeze to death.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:20
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Sinteres posted:Do you think that would be likely to remain contained and not lead to blowback against innocents in both countries? It could, but that's a risk that I as an American am willing to take. The easy thing to do is say "it's Putin's business, we want nothing to do with it". The hard thing to do is be willing to accept some pain yourself to try to aid your fellow man desiring democracy and freedom on the other side of the globe. I'll gladly suffer a little bit as part of the cause of trying to help Ukraine.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:25
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Jaxyon posted:I have never met anyone in person who believes that. Yeah if I met somebody in person who started going off about "Ukrainian nazis" or NATO I would walk away pretty loving quick.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:50
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Solaris 2.0 posted:https://twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1496922915954216962?s=20&t=KMOgkqZ7xoxDgOAAOKLtdA I sure hope so!
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Feb 24, 2022 20:22
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Kaddish posted:Actually, I also don't think Putin is literally insane, like some folks in the thread have claimed. I don't think he's literally insane, but to launch a war like this you can't be a person operating fully in reality.
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Feb 24, 2022 20:54
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Nazzadan posted:Man, hard RIP to these guys Martyrs of Freedom and Democracy. Heroes.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:11
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ZombieLenin posted:Sucks to be that guy. I don’t know how Ukraine feels about capital punishment, but the Geneva Protocols still allow for non-uniformed combatants operating behind the front lines to be unceremoniously shot. It's what he deserves. They'll probably hold onto him, but they'd be well within their rights.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:20
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These reports of Russian soldiers getting their asses kicked are heartening. I hope the Ukrainian forces are feeling bolstered and determined. Every Russian soldier dropped into the dirt is a blow against Putin and fascism. I hope Russian soldiers start to understand that they don't have to take part in this ghoulish imperial war. Mutiny, shoot your officers.
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Feb 25, 2022 01:56
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Moon Slayer posted:I cannot get over this. Putin really fell into the same trap that so many others have, thinking that one serious blow would cause the decadent West to crumble and submit. Not going to count the chickens at this point, no way, but I do agree with the point that a lot of people seem to underestimate how much people in the West and the world over value democracy, warts and all, and how hard they'll fight for their freedom. It's what gives me hope in the face of Putin and Xi's global vision of illiberal democracy and global autocracy.
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Feb 25, 2022 02:08
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There's an enormous Ukranian diaspora in the US, I wonder if some will go to fight, or even get the opportunity to.
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Feb 25, 2022 02:48
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Eggs posted:"ghost of kyiv" comes across as such a blatant psyop. How do you mean?
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Feb 25, 2022 02:53
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ummel posted:Ghost of Kyiv Indeed. Heroes.
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Feb 25, 2022 03:17
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KM Scorchio posted:Extremely dead heros. They thought it was worth it, who am I to say it wasn't?
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Feb 25, 2022 03:27
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FishMcCool posted:Apologies for the silly question, but wtf is a 'tankie'? I gather that it doesn't refer to tank crew, and the context make it sound like some kind of US slang for people falling pretty far to the right of the spectrum, but that's as far as I can infer. Historical usage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanki...%80%93Leninism. In recent years, in the 21st century, the term has expanded to include people who identify as left and support non-Marxist authoritarian regimes that they view as standing in opposition to "The West" in general. Regimes like Putin, the CCP, and Bashar al Assad in Syria for example.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:14
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TulliusCicero posted:What's a Putinist Tankie called at this point? I saw folks defending Putin in the build up to this war by describing Putin's Russia as "the Soviet Union's successor state", so...
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Feb 25, 2022 17:19
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Shes Not Impressed posted:https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1497246845948633119?s=20&t=zaDN7AZ6ymOyyiKgRV8j4Q To be fair, every nation on Earth should block Facebook.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:32
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:they would posion him and say that he had a heart attack from working so hard dude, do you not know how russia works at this point. I do dearly hope that when Putin finally goes that it is by poison. Reap what you sow, you monstrous non-human.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:40
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MikeC posted:I am not talking about NATO or the West right now. We can't even get out sanctions in order. I am talking about the situation from Zelensky 's point of view. Zelensky and Ukrainians seem to have made their point of view pretty clear. They're going to fight the motherfuckers.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:48
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Josef bugman posted:I also must note that I'd rather we all didn't die in a nuclear war. So anything that'd prevent that would be great. It's not happening, cease your worrying.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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Telsa Cola posted:There's been a weird undercurrent throughout this thread of people not understanding that maybe, just maybe, the armed forces and people willingly sticking around and picking up goverment provided arms believe in the independence of their country and people and think its something worth dying for. I think some folks just have a hard time imagining that anything is worth dying for.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:28
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ZombieLenin posted:New York Times is now reporting Russian forces offensive momentum has been ground to a halt in Ukraine, but warns Russia has reserve forces and could commit them. Man this is hugely embarrassing and bad for Putin. If the US was implementing this type of invasion we'd have actually done what we'd planned to do. Russian military might is a complete paper tiger, Putin is lucky he has 6,000 nukes to sit on and hold the world hostage with. Godspeed you brave Ukrainian heroes.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:32
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OwlFancier posted:I entirely understand the instinctive response to fight for what you believe is important, but I am more skeptical at the cynicism of encouraging that response and supplying arms to turn people into cannon fodder for what might not do a whole lot of good. Individuals have agency. If they choose to fight and want help, we can try to provide some of that help. Give the Ukrainian people the smallest amount of respect by acknowledging their choice to fight for their homeland, man.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:36
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Josef bugman posted:Nothing is worth dying for. There are a million things worth living for, but I am a bit weirded out by how many people seem so blasé about their own and other people's lives. There are plenty of things worth dying for, man. Human history bears it out. At least as many humans believe that something is worth dying for as don't.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:35
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Josef bugman posted:Like take the folks on snake island. We've turned what could be their last words, the last words of some living actual people, into a gang tag on a comedy forum. I just think it so deeply profoundly saddening and such an utter waste of life and of people. It's horrible and awful, and to treat this in any other way seems so utterly alien to me. Last words of defiance have always echoed in men's hearts. "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." "If you want them, come and claim them."
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Feb 25, 2022 19:58
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Josef bugman posted:If we aren't allowed to chat about WW3 or nuclear stuff, is there a sensible place in the forums to discuss this at the moment? Probably start your own thread for it, or go post in a different forum about it.
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Feb 25, 2022 21:18
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hobbez posted:Geopolitics aside the willingness to stand against invasion and tyranny by the Ukranian people is legitimately inspiring. Their willingness to sacrifice their lives to repel this bastard is unlike anything quite like I have ever seen It reminds me of the brave people across the Arab world who took part in the Arab Spring.
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Feb 25, 2022 21:20
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